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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
Laurent said:
This is all I found from Paramount / DreamWorks on Blu-ray... Maybe some DreamWorks stuff is missing because it's sometimes distributed by somebody else...

Disturbia (Paramount)
Shooter (Paramount)
The Untouchables (Paramount)
The Warriors: Ultimate Director's Cut (Paramount)
Black Snake Moan (Paramount)
Hustle & Flow (Paramount)
Coming to America (Paramount)
Norbit (Paramount)
Trading Places (Paramount)
Flags of Our Fathers (DreamWorks)
Freedom Writers (Paramount)
M:I-2 (Paramount)
Mission: Impossible (Paramount)
Dreamgirls (DreamWorks)
Failure to Launch (Paramount)
Payback: Straight Up - The Director's Cut (Paramount)
Babel (Paramount)
Black Rain (Paramount)
The Manchurian Candidate (2004) (Paramount)
We Were Soldiers (Paramount)
World Trade Center (Paramount)
Nacho Libre (Paramount)
Reds (Paramount)
Mission: Impossible - Ultimate Missions Collection (Paramount)
Mission: Impossible III (Paramount)
The Italian Job (2003) (Paramount)
Sahara (Paramount)
Aeon Flux (Paramount)
U2: Rattle and Hum (Paramount)
Four Brothers (Paramount)
Lara Croft: Tomb Raider (Paramount)
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (Paramount)
Sleepy Hollow (Paramount)
Click to expand...

Eh... I can wait 18 months for all that.

Actually picking up flags of our fathers (and letters from iwo jima, although that's warner). Anything else worth recommending?
 
J

jjasper

Member
Crayon Shinchan said:
Eh... I can wait 18 months for all that.
Click to expand...

You can buy these right now.

djkimothy said:
Yah, I read from Highdef digest the plot synopsis. I don't mind that it's not war oriented and revolves around 3 soldiers.

I just want to know if it's worth it to pick up.

Letters was awesome.
Click to expand...

Oh. Yeah it is a good movie. Like I said not as awesome as Letter but definately worth a watch.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
StoOgE said:
translation: ignore my blatant trolling and focus on my stealth trolling.
Click to expand...

translation: I have nothing worthwhile to say in response to his arguments, so I'll continue focusing on character attacks all day long.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
jjasper said:
You can buy these right now.
Click to expand...

Waiting until they can be bought again maybe?

If I can get the M:I set and Flags for cheap, I'll pick them up. Otherwise, 'meh' to that list for me.
 
D

distantmantra

Member
Crayon Shinchan said:
Eh... I can wait 18 months for all that.

Actually picking up flags of our fathers (and letters from iwo jima, although that's warner). Anything else worth recommending?
Click to expand...

I've got Dreamgirls and Babel, they're both great films.

I might have to go out and pick up Flags of our Fathers, too...
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
Zoe said:
Waiting until they can be bought again maybe?

If I can get the M:I set and Flags for cheap, I'll pick them up. Otherwise, 'meh' to that list for me.
Click to expand...

Only MI:3 is worth anything in that set. The other two have film transfers so soft that you scratch your head wondering why you even bothered.

But truth be told, I don't need to be buying a huge stash of catalogue titles yet. Not until they release those damn laser light projector bulbs. Because that's when I'll upgrade to 1080p.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
I wonder what's going to happen to the Paramount discs on the free BD deal right now. You have until the end of October to redeem it.
 
L

Laurent

Member
jjasper said:
You can buy these right now.
Click to expand...
Or you can buy these never. That's what I choose (except for Trading Places, which is a classic, I bought Coming To Ameria 2 days ago, the rest doesn't appeal me much... Disturbia was OK but it's not enough)
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
Long technical interview with Alan Bell, Paramount's CTO (18 months thing a myth?):
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136253/article.html

PCW: Presumably, making this move wasn't something you did lightly. What led up to the decision to shift your production exclusively to HD DVD?

Bell: Paramount has been getting experience with publishing titles in both formats for the last year. We've had a hands-on ability to see how these formats work in practice. And after some hands-on analysis, we decided that HD DVD was the format we wanted to support.

PCW: Why was that?

Bell: For one thing, the lower prices of the players: It's good for consumers, it's good for our customer base.

For another thing, HD DVD came out of the DVD Forum. The DVD Forum is very experienced at developing and managing specs. [HD DVD] was launched in a very stable way, with stable specifications, and they had specified a reference player model, so all players had to be compatible with the HDi interactivity layer, and all players had to be capable of the interactivity. So when we publish titles in the future that have interactivity, we can be assured that every HD DVD player will be able to handle this content.

PCW: So, as a studio, you believe that the underlying stability of HD DVD's specs is a benefit?

Bell: When you look at what the DVD Forum has specified as required, it's a good set of advanced technologies. You can be assured that that benefit will be available to all consumers, no matter what [player] model they purchased. That speaks to the DVD Forum, that it published specs that were complete and market-ready, and that it didn't need to publish up [and change the specs], as Blu-ray has. To some degree, [such changes are] going to create some legacy issues.

For example, HD DVD players have [ethernet] connectivity built-in. If the player doesn't have that, or it's optional, you can't rely on that [as a feature].

PCW: Didn't we see the same thing with DVD players, though, where some features were mandatory and others weren't?

Bell: When you have a format, you generally have mandatory requirements on players, and you sometimes have optional features. On DVD, Dolby Digital 5.1 was mandatory, but DTS 5.1 was optional. But that meant that when you published a title, you never really knew how many customers had players that supported the feature you were adding to the disc at some cost. On HD DVD, the mandatory audio technologies are Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, and Dolby TrueHD. [For more details, see an explanation of the differences among the various Dolby technologies.]

PCW: Over time, though, DTS became a de facto standard on DVD players. Don't you expect to see the same thing happen over time with Blu-ray's specs, such as the requirements for storage and interactivity via an ethernet connection? [Paramount's decision comes ahead of Blu-ray's new minimum specs, which go into effect for players sold after October 31.]

Bell: Eventually, that's true, but right now we have early adopters and enthusiasts [buying players]. If you do migrate the spec and your options are not included on the early players, these are the very people you leave behind. They're our most valuable customers in launching a new format, and you want to make sure that what they buy continues to represent the best of the format.

PCW: What about the additional capacity of Blu-ray, which has 50GB dual-layer discs, as opposed to HD DVD's 30GB dual-layer discs? Some studios have cited the additional capacity as necessary. Are you going to miss having the extra headroom?

Bell: This is a little bit overrated. Making a choice like the one Paramount has made is a multifaceted choice: It depends upon manufacturability, the reliability of players, the cost, the infrastructure that's developed to support our creation of titles. Many different factors came into play--including capacity. When Paramount made this decision, we considered the broad spectrum.

If everything else were equal, more capacity would be better. Why not?

But if you convert the playing time, a 30GB disc gives you somewhere between 3 and 4 hours of capacity. It depends upon the nature of the movie and how you compress it. There's no compromise on the quality. We've found that 95 percent of movies are less than 2.25 hours long. With a disc whose capacity is 3 or 4 hours, you can put a fair amount of bonus material on that disc as well. So 30GB with the option to add another disc is fine, from our point of view.

PCW: What if the multiple soundtracks and high-definition bonus materials won't fit on a single disc?

Bell: If there's an overflow of bonus material, we'll just go to another disc. That's not an issue for consumers. In some cases, they consider that it has more value. It's done routinely in DVD. Why put every single title on a high-capacity disc if it doesn't need it?

PCW: Do you expect capacity needs to change in the future?

Bell: A 45GB disc is under development. [Editors' note: This disc has been in development for two years.] Secondly, compression will become more effective. The number of minutes you get on a disc depends upon how much you can compress a movie. As we gain experience with the new codecs, the ability to compress at high quality will be improved.

Capacity is a factor, but it's not an overriding factor. In the grand scheme of things, the better proposition for consumers in our view, and for our business needs, is HD DVD.

PCW: From your first-hand experiences, what can you tell us about the difference in programming languages between HD DVD, which uses Microsoft's HDi technology, and Blu-ray, which uses BD-Java?

Bell: BD-Java is a programming language. The benefit is that it's very flexible. The drawback is that you may need 100 lines of BD-Java code. HDi is a relatively compact piece of code; one command can cover quite a bit of interactivity.

BD-Java is also more complex, so the possibility of errors is greater. And when BD players are put out, [there's the question of whether] they all support the scenarios as coded up from the low level. [Some of the early problems with BD-Java discs] were in part due to the complexity that BD-Java brings. From our point of view, HDi offers all of the flexibility we need, in practice, and it does so in a more simplified way and in a way that we feel leads to better compatibility, better reliability, and lower costs.

PCW: Up until now, how have you approached coding your discs for HDi and BD-Java?

Bell: At this particular point in time, we've been able to supply more features with HDi and HD DVD than with BD-Java and Blu-ray Disc. What we have typically done in practice is that we've created the interactive scenarios in HD DVD and then tried to pull them into Blu-ray. But that has not been entirely possible: Some things we can do in HDi are not supported in BD-Java. If you're going to do BD-Java, you need someone who's capable of programming at a low level. With HDi, you don't need somebody with that additional level of training. We don't need programmers to code our discs.

PCW: Do you think users are interested in the interactivity on these discs?

Bell: Interactivity is an important part of why you would move up from DVD. Yes, [high-def] has a great picture, but is that enough? Connectivity is something that studios will grow into, and it's something that we believe studios will grow into.

We're thinking about [having media servers to provide extra content via the Internet], but those kinds of investments cost money. The motivation to do them grows as the installed base grows. If we see there's a sufficiently large installed base to justify the cost of the server, we'll do it. Right now we're concentrating on getting a great picture out, and great interactivity.

PCW: Will this exclusive period extend for a limited time, or is this an indefinite arrangement?

Bell: At this moment in time, it's an indefinite commitment. The core of this announcement comes from our experience, and what our consumers are looking for. We hope this will influence consumers' choices.
Click to expand...

Michael Bay retracts his crying:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...pports_Paramounts_Decision_to_Back_HD_DVD/884

Michael Bay said:
"Last night at dinner I was having dinner with three blu-ray owners, they were pissed about no Transformers Blu-ray and I drank the kool aid hook line and sinker. So at 1:30 in the morning I posted - nothing good ever comes out of early am posts mind you - I over reacted. I heard where Paramount is coming from and the future of HD and players that will be close to the $200 mark which is the magic number. I like what I heard.

As a director, I'm all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard firsthand people upset about a corporate decision.

So today I saw 300 on HD, it rocks!

So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!"
Click to expand...
 
D

distantmantra

Member
Laurent said:
Or you can buy these never. That's what I choose (except for Trading Places, which is a classic, the rest doesn't appeal me much... Disturbia was OK but it's not enough)
Click to expand...

You could always buy them used to silently "stick it to the man."
 
L

Laurent

Member
distantmantra said:
You could always buy them used to silently "stick it to the man."
Click to expand...
But used purchases won't affect the war... WE MUST BUY TO AFFECT THE WAR!!!

Argyle said:
You think HD DVD owners wish that Paramount would stop making discs for them too? I don't understand...
Click to expand...
Try replacing Paramount with Sony / Columbia...
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
djkimothy said:
Well, beatboy (Josh) mentioned that it is not Warner going exclusive.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11383075&postcount=152

However that was obvious. If this rumour is true I still speculate it has to do with retail. That would be my best bet IF this was true.

or a MAJOR film release
Click to expand...

Wait, isn't beatboy the same idiot who said the LOTR EE would be BRD exclusive with HD-DVD getting the theatrical cuts to appease BRD fans upset over Matrix? As in; he's full of shit?
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
djkimothy said:
Well, beatboy (Josh) mentioned that it is not Warner going exclusive.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11383075&postcount=152

However that was obvious. If this rumour is true I still speculate it has to do with retail. That would be my best bet IF this was true.

or a MAJOR film release
Click to expand...

Warner is good people. Let market decide plz.

Ah hell, who'd care about a format war if everyone would release equally? Certainly, not I.
 
B

bill0527

Member
Laurent said:
But used purchases won't affect the war... WE MUST BUY TO AFFECT THE WAR!!!
Click to expand...

Its too late to affect Paramount. They've already cashed the check.

That's why I made sure to purchase Flags of Our Fathers just now used off Amazon.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
Laurent said:
Exclusivity on Blu-ray for Lords of the Rings (New Line)? Harry Potter (Warner)?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised that beatboy would again be trying to use LOTR as his bullshit trump card on AVS.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Here is a list of Paramount films (just including major releases, not everything) coming out (in theaters) for the rest of the year and 2008 to know what will not show up:

The Heartbreak Kid (Ben Stiller comedy)
The Kite Runner
Bee Movie
Beowulf
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
1-18-08 (JJ Abrams Monster Film)
The Spiderwick Chronicles
Drillbit Taylor (Owen Wilson & Judd Apatow comedy)
Iron Man
Indiana Jones IV
The Lovely Bones (Peter Jackson's next movie)
The Love Guru (Mike Myers comedy)
Madagascar 2
Star Trek

And NO Indiana Jones does not fit into the other Spielberg films rules. The film is 100% owned by Lucasfilm so George Lucas makes the call and Lucas won't release any of his films on either format he says.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
BTW Manabyte, answer me this:

Why would Paramount CTO admit to a time limited exclusivity despite the obviousness of it? You don't think that's one of the clauses that people paying Paramount would have included in the contract? i.e. it's time limited, but no one in your organization gets to say otherwise?

You'd think 150 mil could buy at least that.
 
D

djkimothy

Member
Cheebs said:
Here is a list of Paramount films (just including major releases, not everything) coming out (in theaters) for the rest of the year and 2008 to know what will not show up:

The Heartbreak Kid (Ben Stiller comedy)
The Kite Runner
Bee Movie
Beowulf
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
1-18-08 (JJ Abrams Monster Film)
The Spiderwick Chronicles
Drillbit Taylor (Owen Wilson & Judd Apatow comedy)
Iron Man
Indiana Jones IV
The Lovely Bones (Peter Jackson's next movie)
The Love Guru (Mike Myers comedy)
Madagascar 2
Star Trek
Click to expand...

Is this the "Untitled" trailer?

Cause that's the only thing that interests me on that list.
 
L

Laurent

Member
Argyle said:
So you are saying you want Sony to stop making HD DVDs? But they never started...?
Click to expand...
I'm not saying anything! I won't spell out for you what the original poster was implying, use your imagination... :lol
 
C

Chemo

Member
Cheebs said:
And NO Indiana Jones does not fit into the other Spielberg films rules. The film is 100% owned by Lucasfilm so George Lucas makes the call and Lucas won't release any of his films on either format he says.
Click to expand...
Where was this confirmed? I don't remember hearing anything about this.
 
J

jjasper

Member
djkimothy said:
Is this the "Untitled" trailer?

Cause that's the only thing that interests me on that list.
Click to expand...

Yeah that is the only thing on the list I would probably care about as I would still be able to get Indy if they go for a high def release.

Also aren't all Indy movies owned buy Lucas? So how is this one different?
 
D

distantmantra

Member
Cheebs said:
Here is a list of Paramount films (just including major releases, not everything) coming out (in theaters) for the rest of the year and 2008 to know what will not show up:

The Heartbreak Kid (Ben Stiller comedy)
The Kite Runner
Bee Movie
Beowulf
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
1-18-08 (JJ Abrams Monster Film)
The Spiderwick Chronicles
Drillbit Taylor (Owen Wilson & Judd Apatow comedy)
Iron Man
Indiana Jones IV
The Lovely Bones (Peter Jackson's next movie)
The Love Guru (Mike Myers comedy)
Madagascar 2
Star Trek

And NO Indiana Jones does not fit into the other Spielberg films rules. The film is 100% owned by Lucasfilm so George Lucas makes the call and Lucas won't release any of his films on either format he says.
Click to expand...

Lovely Bones and Kite Runner were great books, I'm really curious to see how they turn out.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Chemo said:
Where was this confirmed? I don't remember hearing anything about this.
Click to expand...
Lucasfilm releases will not be released on either format according to George Lucas. He is waiting it out for now. It took him till 2001 to support DVD if you recall.

Remember, Lucasfilm owns Indiana Jones. Not Paramount.
 
A

Argyle

Member
Crayon Shinchan said:
BTW Manabyte, answer me this:

Why would Paramount CTO admit to a time limited exclusivity despite the obviousness of it? You don't think that's one of the clauses that people paying Paramount would have included in the contract? i.e. it's time limited, but no one in your organization gets to say otherwise?

You'd think 150 mil could buy at least that.
Click to expand...

Seriously, I don't understand how anyone can see this as anything but a cash grab. I read their subsequent interviews and they hit all the normal HD DVD talking points but I can't think of a legit business reason to do what they did (ok, maybe I can think of 150 Million reasons...), not when their own titles are selling better on Blu-ray (2:1) and that most (all?) of the studios adopting a single format (particularly the one that most of the consumers are choosing :) would be a virtuous cycle for all involved.

I mean, that's a lot of money. I saw in another thread that someone pointed out that the US installed base of HD DVD players is like 300K - that's $500 per user.

What's the biggest selling title on Blu-ray? Probably Casino Royale or 300, aren't those < 500K each? - sales will probably increase but say they were expecting to sell 1.5M discs on BD between now and when the exclusivity is up - that's $100 per disc, more than the market would be willing to bear. Sadly it's good business for Paramount but it's so virulently anti-consumer that it makes me just shake my head.

I'm not too worried about it personally - I won't buy into HD DVD unless it looks like they are going to win...there are many ways to skin a cat and it really just means that Paramount won't see a dime from me.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
Yea Spielberg and Paramount have a little more control over the Indiana Jones films than Lucasfilm does in comparison to Star Wars. Lucasfilm has total control over Young Indy though.

Indiana Jones movies = Financed by Paramount
Young Indiana Jones series = Financed by Lucasfilm

Back when they were releasing the Indy films on DVD, Lucas wanted to put deleted scenes, commentary, and a bunch of different extras on the set; but Spielberg doesn't like those type of extras so Lucas was overruled. Also the Indy movies remain in print on DVD, where Lucas likes to take the Star Wars movies OOP after 18-24 months.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
The more Mana dismissed the AVS guy, the more I want to believe him, even though I am as skeptical as anybody. What's his track record other than that one thing Mana keeps repeating about LOTR?
 
C

Chemo

Member
Cheebs said:
Lucasfilm releases will not be released on either format according to George Lucas. He is waiting it out for now. It took him till 2001 to support DVD if you recall.

Remember, Lucasfilm owns Indiana Jones. Not Paramount.
Click to expand...
I still think that Spielberg has more control than you are giving him credit for in the case of the Indiana Jones films. Regardless, until we get a press release stating the situation with the Indiana Jones films -- whether they're up to Spielberg or Lucas -- I don't think unknown things should be thrown around as fact.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
ManaByte said:
Yea Spielberg and Paramount have a little more control over the Indiana Jones films than Lucasfilm does in comparison to Star Wars. Lucasfilm has total control over Young Indy though.

Indiana Jones movies = Financed by Paramount
Young Indiana Jones series = Financed by Lucasfilm

Back when they were releasing the Indy films on DVD, Lucas wanted to put deleted scenes, commentary, and a bunch of different extras on the set; but Spielberg doesn't like those type of extras so Lucas was overruled. Also the Indy movies remain in print on DVD, where Lucas likes to take the Star Wars movies OOP after 18-24 months.
Click to expand...

If you can't answer a simple question like the one I asked above, stop reposting text walls of propaganda.
 
O

Oni Jazar

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
The more Mana dismissed the AVS guy, the more I want to believe him, even though I am as skeptical as anybody. What's his track record other than that one thing Mana keeps repeating about LOTR?
Click to expand...

He's been right occasionally. Nothing major just title announcements, but he's not completely bullshit just a little dramatic and sometimes wrong.
 
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