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[thaivo]

It isn't like I want to stay with DVD.

If you are going back to SD anyway, maybe you should consider buying HD DVD combos. :lol :lol

There's nothing illegal about a studio deciding to support a single format on their own, it's a question of how much they might have been influenced and how legal that is that I believe mrklaw was addressing. They certainly haven't been fully forthright about the particulars of the deal.

There is no law out there that requires companies to release their contracts for public perusal. It's interesting that Paramount execs have been trying to explain their justification, and BD people just immediately discount the statements as lies. :lol Even though I think there are reasons other than the ones that have been expressed by Paramount executives, it doesn't mean what they have said is all lies.. :lol

It seems suggested from what I've read that there is an agreement for promotional incentives, which actually is interesting as it's like Paramount is rewarding Toshiba for paying to advertise its own format. It's a great deal, will likely lead to 1) More HDM from Paramount, and 2) Even more exposure of HD DVD. Pluses all around.

 

[jjasper]

Well, there always was the Bourne Ultimatum, which is the film I'm most looking forward to buying anyway. Transformers being exclusive is a plus, but not my favorite film of the Summer.

I keep forgetting about Bourne, 2nd thime this week.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I am starting to think that maybe both formats could co-exist now, but onlyt because to think they both die depresses me (SD sucks, plain and simple).

 

[thaivo]

I keep forgetting about Bourne, 2nd thime this week.

Have you seen the movie? It exceeded my already high expectations. I'm very conflicted about its future. The great part of me thinks the story arc is over, and done to absolute perfection. The other, smaller part of me wants another Bourne movie because of the series' track record of awesomeness...

 

[ManaByte]

I am starting to think that maybe both formats could co-exist now, but onlyt because to think they both die depresses me (SD sucks, plain and simple).

VICTORY!

 

[Matrix]

I am starting to think that maybe both formats could co-exist now, but onlyt because to think they both die depresses me (SD sucks, plain and simple).

Damn right.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

My self-confessed cognitive dissonance is victory? Oh, sad indeed.

PS: This still chills my buying habits until some sort of outcome is clear.

 

[djkimothy]

This research group still think BD will win.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/blurayresearch082307.htm

Washington, D.C. (August 23, 2007) -- Blu-ray will still win the high-def disc format war against rival HD DVD despite Paramount's decision to back HD DVD exclusively.

That's the verdict from the UK-based research firm Understanding & Solutions, as reported by Video Business.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation this week stunned the high-def world by announcing they will only release titles in HD DVD. Paramount had previously offered films in both formats while DreamWorks had yet to enter the high-def battle.

Some analysts have speculated that Paramount's decision will extend the format war for at least another year or two because both sides now have more than one studio behind it.

But Jim Bottoms, Understanding & Solutions' director, cautioned that Paramount's decision does not add any new titles to the HD DVD catalog; it only subtracts films from Blu-ray. He added that Blu-ray still has the exclusive backing of four major studios while HD DVD has only two.

“The weight of industry support is still very much behind Blu-ray,” said Bottoms, according to Video Business. “Fifty-eight percent of the high-def market comes from Blu-ray-exclusive business."

He said that Sony's PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside, will continue to give the format a major edge in home penetration.

“We have gone on record before that BD format is most likely to succeed, and we don’t believe (the Paramount/DreamWorks decision) will change that outcome,” said Bottoms.

Bottoms said his research group had previously predicted that the format war would be decided by early next year. But he acknowledged that Paramount's decision could prolong the battle.

 

[StoOgE]

My self-confessed cognitive dissonance is victory? Oh, sad indeed.

PS: This still chills my buying habits until some sort of outcome is clear.

VICTORY!

 

[jjasper]

Have you seen the movie? It exceeded my already high expectations. I'm very conflicted about its future. The great part of me thinks the story arc is over, and done to absolute perfection. The other, smaller part of me wants another Bourne movie because of the series' track record of awesomeness...

No i haven't the first 2 are awesome though (I haven't seen many movies in the theather recently $20 to go with my gf vs. 25 to own) so I don't know how much it strays from the book (the other 2 did quite a bit form what I remember) but there are 2 more Bourne books if they wanted to go with that.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

That, and I've admitted that I have a serious distaste for Sony.

It seems to me as if every other HD-DVD supporter holds this reason for their support of HD-DVD.

Here you have people like Stooge calling me out, when all I want is a single unified format; preferably under BD, as I already own one, but if it were possible and swiftly executed so that it was HD-DVD, I'd be happy too.

OTOH, half the people that enjoy HD-DVD may enjoy HD movies, but they side with the format out of some xenophobic fear of a company or some other completely arbitrary and bullshit reason.

 

[djkimothy]

It seems to me as if every other HD-DVD supporter holds this reason for their support of HD-DVD.

Here you have people like Stooge calling me out, when all I want is a single unified format; preferably under BD, as I already own one, but if it were possible and swiftly executed so that it was HD-DVD, I'd be happy too.

OTOH, half the people that enjoy HD-DVD may enjoy HD movies, but they side with the format out of some xenophobic fear of a company or some other completely arbitrary and bullshit reason.

GAF hates games AND movies.

Seriously, that kind of attitude is childish.

 

[Mrbob]

HD DVD combo movies :yuck

So help fund the most logical way out of this mess: take a step back, save some money and then buy a dual format player when they come down in price. Proceed to then buy BD/HDDVD movies with reckless abandon.

Since I already have a PS3, it would be much cheaper to buy a Toshiba player than those overpriced combo players.

 

[ManaByte]

It seems to me as if every other HD-DVD supporter holds this reason for their support of HD-DVD.

No, I support HD-DVD because there are more MOVIES on that format I want.

I already have nearly 30 HD-DVDs (and about 20 BRDs) and there are still at least 20 catalog titles out that I want to get on HD-DVD not counting the other catalog stuff coming up and new releases. 99% of which are exclusive aside from a Warner disc here and there.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

No, I support HD-DVD because there are more MOVIES on that format I want.

I said every other; so about half of them support it for this reason. The other half support it because they're impatient with too much money and don't mind the cons of a split library. Which is fine.

At the very least, the HD-DVD supporters I meet IRL are vehemently anti-Sony, because they've completely gorged themselves on the red-koolaid. They don't know their facts and they don't know what they're talking about. One even mentioned HD broadcasting standards in australia as the reason HD-DVD is more compatible in australia than Blu-ray.

And you also can't deny that some of the people supporting HD-DVD in this thread have been drafted from the ranks of hardcore X360 fanboys who detest the PS3. Indeed, you've got Thiavo, but I also recall Rubso mentioning several times how he's on the 'green team' (i.e. to denote his love of all things Xbox).

 

[thaivo]

My self-confessed cognitive dissonance is victory? Oh, sad indeed.

PS: This still chills my buying habits until some sort of outcome is clear.

:lol Small victory none the less.

 

[C4Lukins]

It seems to me as if every other HD-DVD supporter holds this reason for their support of HD-DVD.

Here you have people like Stooge calling me out, when all I want is a single unified format; preferably under BD, as I already own one, but if it were possible and swiftly executed so that it was HD-DVD, I'd be happy too.

OTOH, half the people that enjoy HD-DVD may enjoy HD movies, but they side with the format out of some xenophobic fear of a company or some other completely arbitrary and bullshit reason.

How would it be xenophobic to support Toshiba over Sony?

Anyway, my distaste for Sony is not really towards the company itself, but I think it is not in the consumers or the industries best interests to have a company that owns a major movie studio and is big in all forms of media, to have such a high stake in the future major format in which these titles are sold. It is the same reason I would rather the Itunes store succeed over a store run by a major record label where other labels have to go through them to get there stuff out there. Sony also has a history of not being very open with its formats. They are minor gripes which if BR won, probably would not end up being a big deal at all. I still do not like companies to have that sort of leverage. So in a 50/50 situation like this where the formats are comparable, it is those little things that make you choose sides. I also tend to root for the underdog.

 

[thaivo]

And you also can't deny that some of the people supporting HD-DVD in this thread have been drafted from the ranks of hardcore X360 fanboys who detest the PS3. Indeed, you've got Thiavo, but I also recall Rubso mentioning several times how he's on the 'green team' (i.e. to denote his love of all things Xbox).

I have an open dislike for Sony, but don't have an 360. I do have the original X-box though, and a Wii. My primary reasons for disliking Sony:

1) Everything they produce seems overpriced (even the price subsidized PS3)
2) They effectively killed my favorite game company (Sega)
3) They consistently push proprietary media
4) They have very questionable practices (i.e., fake blogs, fake movie reviewers, rootkit, etc.)
5) y mas...

I'm loving the fact that they bet the farm on BD, and pretty much gave away the console market to Microsoft and Nintendo due to BD. Such a sacrifice, and BD may not end up not being the dominant format.

 

[VALIS]

OTOH, half the people that enjoy HD-DVD may enjoy HD movies, but they side with the format out of some xenophobic fear of a company or some other completely arbitrary and bullshit reason.

And half the people who support BluRay don't hate Microsoft or have a pre-existing boner for Sony? You'd have to have a head injury not to think that. Half the people who have a lot of opinions on this format war are full of shit.

But regardless, I'm posting to defend some of the recent shots at DVDs. I just recently got a new HDTV (61" Samsung LED/DLP) to replace my 3 years old one (42" Sony LCD), and DVDs look freaking stunning. Almost-HD quality. The tech in HDTVs has come so far in recent years, especially the black levels. If you give these newer HDTVs a good clean source like a nicely mastered DVD, they'll upscan and output some pristine looking shit. I can't believe how good some of my DVDs look now. I wanna lick the pretty colors.

 

[kaching]

There is no law out there that requires companies to release their contracts for public perusal. It's interesting that Paramount execs have been trying to explain their justification, and BD people just immediately discount the statements as lies. :lol Even though I think there are reasons other than the ones that have been expressed by Paramount executives, it doesn't mean what they have said is all lies.. :lol

Never said they had to release their contract details in full nor did I say they were lying. However, without the full exposure of the details there are certainly questions about how proper the deal is. No different from the way HDDVD proponents have asked after investigation of the BDA's contract deals in Europe.

Since I already have a PS3, it would be much cheaper to buy a Toshiba player than those overpriced combo players.

Cheaper, maybe, but if you're looking for the smartest way to spend your money to end this war, buying yet another "standalone" player isn't going to send the right message. And I didn't say buy a combo player right now. Wait. Not like the BD player you already have won't be getting a sizable share of the HD movies being produced in the meantime. You've already committed to sacrificing access to some HD movies for the time being by not already having players to support both formats.

 

[jjasper]

I have an open dislike for Sony, but don't have an 360. I do have the original X-box though, and a Wii.

I have a Wii too

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

How would it be xenophobic to support Toshiba over Sony?

Anyway, my distaste for Sony is not really towards the company itself, but I think it is not in the consumers or the industries best interests to have a company that owns a major movie studio and is big in all forms of media, to have such a high stake in the future major format in which these titles are sold. It is the same reason I would rather the Itunes store succeed over a store run by a major record label where other labels have to go through them to get there stuff out there. Sony also has a history of not being very open with its formats. They are minor gripes which if BR won, probably would not end up being a big deal at all. I still do not like companies to have that sort of leverage. SO in a 50/50 situation like this where the formats are comparable, it is those little things that make you choose sides. I also tend to root for the underdog.

Microsoft VS Sony.

Not necessarily xenophobic, but some other bullshit reason. Like rooting for the underdog. I mean. What the hell is that?

Most of us have been so vehemently Blu-ray because we want a single unified HD format and it still represents the best chance to do so. But rooting for the underdog?

I would abandon BD in a heart beat if it was in the position HD-DVD were in today. Of course I'd simply sit back and stop buying media until it fell, but I don't throw my money behind conglomerates because of some warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[ManaByte]

And half the people who support BluRay don't hate Microsoft or have a pre-existing boner for Sony? You'd have to have a head injury not to think that. Half the people who have a lot of opinions on this format war are full of shit.

If the PS3 didn't play Blu-Ray movies, this thread probably wouldn't even exist. It's one of the reasons why Home Theater Forum has banned format war posts altogether as the game console angle brings in the same console bickering that goes on in gaming forums.

 

[Days like these...]

OTOH, half the people that enjoy HD-DVD may enjoy HD movies, but they side with the format out of some xenophobic fear of a company or some other completely arbitrary and bullshit reason.

Only half that enjoy hd dvd may enjoy hd movies? I'm not understanding (no I'm not trying to be obtuse).

Secondly I dont think its fear so much as disdain and lastly I dont really see cheaper players and a selection of movies currently available that people want ( matrix, batman, hot fuzz, bournes etc...) as completely arbitrary and bullshit reason to support HD DVD.

 

[jjasper]

If the PS3 didn't play Blu-Ray movies, this thread probably wouldn't even exist. It's one of the reasons why Home Theater Forum has banned format war posts altogether as the game console angle brings in the same console bickering that goes on in gaming forums.

Just think about this thread if there was no PS3 or 360 add one

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

If the PS3 didn't play Blu-Ray movies, this thread probably wouldn't even exist. It's one of the reasons why Home Theater Forum has banned format war posts altogether as the game console angle brings in the same console bickering that goes on in gaming forums.

If the PS3 didn't play movies, it's quite likely there wouldn't be a format war.

But it's even more likely that HD format adoption overall would be much slower than it has been; slower than DVD was, given the fact that back then, every TV saw benefit from DVD, where as now, not even the majority are compatible with the new HD tech yet.

 

[thaivo]

I have a Wii too

I actually think the Wii is actually quote a good lesson for the HDM war as well. It is a system that is definitely good enough, and reasonably priced. People here may scoff at the $150 + difference in the prices of HD players, but to me, and most people $150 is a significant sum of money. I bought my Toshiba D2 for ~$160 (in combination with Costco gift cards).

The 360 also echoes this point. People can't tell the difference between a 360 game from a PS3 game. In fact, also like HD DVD and BD, sometimes the 360 games are superior. Why pay more for what looks the same on the screen?

 

[C4Lukins]

Microsoft VS Sony.

Not necessarily xenophobic, but some other bullshit reason. Like rooting for the underdog. I mean. What the hell is that?

Most of us have been so vehemently Blu-ray because we want a single unified HD format and it still represents the best chance to do so. But rooting for the underdog?

I would abandon BD in a heart beat if it was in the position HD-DVD were in today. Of course I'd simply sit back and stop buying media until it fell, but I don't throw my money behind conglomerates because of some warm fuzzy feeling.

I admitted it was a stupid reason, and it was also the least of my reasons. And there is a definite connection between Sony fanboyism and BR support if you look at many of the supporters here. And there is nothing wrong with that, but lets not pretend it is a more noble cause of a one format future.

When I look at UMD pricing, and the initial pricing of PSP games, I am sorry, but Sony is not a company I want in control of the future disk format. And I think if HD-DVD did not exist, you would not be seeing BR's for under 30 dollars yet. I think this competition is good, and as an owner of both formats it does not effect me negatively in the least for it to be prolonged. It is forcing them to develop technology, and drive down prices at an accelerated rate which is great for me.

 

[thaivo]

No i haven't the first 2 are awesome though (I haven't seen many movies in the theather recently $20 to go with my gf vs. 25 to own) so I don't know how much it strays from the book (the other 2 did quite a bit form what I remember) but there are 2 more Bourne books if they wanted to go with that.

You should definitely pick up Ultimatum when it comes out on HD. It is the best action film I've seen in years. Yesterday, I picked up the Bourne Supremacy from a local BB brick and mortar. It kicked serious ass in HD. Now I'm considering purchasing both Bourne films (I was initally waiting until the likely box set comes out.)

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

I admitted it was a stupid reason, and it was also the least of my reasons. And there is a definite connection between Sony fanboyism and BR support if you look at many of the supporters here. And there is nothing wrong with that, but lets not pretend it is a more noble cause of a one format future.

When I look at UMD pricing, and the initial pricing of PSP games, I am sorry, but Sony is not a company I want in control of the future disk format. And I think if HD-DVD did not exist, you would not be seeing BR's for under 30 dollars yet. I think this competition is good, and as an owner of both formats it does not effect me negatively in the least for it to be prolonged. It is forcing them to develop technology, and drive down prices at an accelerated rate which is great for me.

Oh I'll fully admit that I jumped in because the PS3 came with one. But I didn't jump in only for that reason, nor am I staying for only that reason. If BD didn't look like it was winning so easily, then I wouldn't have bought the movies for it until the HD format issue was resolved.

I'm still a gamer first and foremost, but I couch my buying decisions in logic, not simply feelings.

As for BD and Sony; while they are the main player, there are many other companies in the BDA, and Sony aren't the sole manufacturer. It's a fallacy to think that there'd be no competition if HD-DVD wasn't there, because BD publishers would be competing with each other.

 

[StoOgE]

You should definitely pick up Ultimatum when it comes out on HD. It is the best action film I've seen in years. Yesterday, I picked up the Bourne Supremacy from a local BB brick and mortar. It kicked serious ass in HD. Now I'm considering purchasing both Bourne films (I was initally waiting until the likely box set comes out.)

Bourne Identity is very well put together as well.

 

[Raistlin]

Can someone explain me why Disney is such a big deal?

You may want to look into just what films they own (including their subsidiaries). I get the feeling you're only thinking about cartoons.

 

[ManaByte]

Microsoft VS Sony.

Not necessarily xenophobic, but some other bullshit reason. Like rooting for the underdog. I mean. What the hell is that?

Most of us have been so vehemently Blu-ray because we want a single unified HD format and it still represents the best chance to do so. But rooting for the underdog?

I would abandon BD in a heart beat if it was in the position HD-DVD were in today. Of course I'd simply sit back and stop buying media until it fell, but I don't throw my money behind conglomerates because of some warm fuzzy feeling.

Toshiba is the name on my HD-DVD player, not Microsoft.

My 360 isn't even hooked up, my Xbox is in a box, and I'm a Mac user. Labeling people who own HD-DVD as Microsoft fanboys is stupid console wars mentality.

 

[Raistlin]

Two formats is great because consumer choice is never a bad thing--there's always room for Pepsi and Coke. People just need to embrace the two-format future as it's indisputably best for everyone involved.

My god.

You are actually trying to compare soda to electronics platforms? :lol



I'm sorry, but choice in formats is NOT good ... at least in the long run.

 

[thaivo]

I'm still a gamer first and foremost, but I couch my buying decisions in logic, not simply feelings.

You make it seem like HD DVD supporters are completely irrational people. :lol

I prefer HD DVD, and there are definitely valid reasons to do so. HD DVD buyers tend to be more cost conscious than BD supporters. However, I don't discount BD supporter's reasons outright.

I remember when I first started posting, and my main question to people here was why pay more when the movies on the screen look absolutely the same, and HD players had a finalized spec, which allowed it to have features BD players at that time (and even now) did not.

The answer at that time? More media available for BD, and HD was likely to die w/in a few months. Now, both of these reasons seem are completely off.

 

[Chemo]

Toshiba is the name on my HD-DVD player, not Microsoft.

My 360 isn't even hooked up, my Xbox is in a box, and I'm a Mac user. Labeling people who own HD-DVD as Microsoft fanboys is stupid console wars mentality.

Yeah, but to be fair, even though you lean HD DVD you are a dual-format supporter. So I wouldn't consider you to be a part of either camp (pro-MS camp or pro-Sony camp), regardless of the lean. I'm sure there are plenty of HD DVD supporters who are in it out of love of Microsoft, just like there are tons of Blu-ray supporters who are in it for Sony. I don't know how many Toshiba fanboys are out there, but I wouldn't think there would be many...

 

[Raistlin]

Ive never seen the show, but Ive heard good things. A 60 dollar blind buy is hard to justify though.

IMO, it is worth it. There are enough great episodes/moments to justify the price.

 

[Raistlin]

Right now is the key term here. I am saying that the request for HD will grow substantially in the next months. Maybe I am crazy... I wonder how much time it took for VHS to fade out? I can't remember...

IIRC, DVD didn't outsell VHS until a few years ago

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Toshiba is the name on my HD-DVD player, not Microsoft.

My 360 isn't even hooked up, my Xbox is in a box, and I'm a Mac user. Labeling people who own HD-DVD as Microsoft fanboys is stupid console wars mentality.

You're intent on been the victim aren't you? Even after I qualified my statements with only half would feel it's important to support HD-DVD due to this or SIMILAR (not necessarily Sony VS MS feelings, but other ridiculous things like 'rooting for the underdog, etc) things.

 

[Raistlin]

I found this interesting :


Is there any other Blu Ray that has branching?

The upcoming Close Encounters is the only other announced one iirc.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

You make it seem like HD DVD supporters are completely irrational people. :lol

I prefer HD DVD, and there are definitely valid reasons to do so. HD DVD buyers tend to be more cost conscious than BD supporters. However, I don't discount BD supporter's reasons outright.

I remember when I first started posting, and my main question to people here was why pay more when the movies on the screen look absolutely the same, and HD players had a finalized spec, which allowed it to have features BD players at that time (and even now) did not.

The answer at that time? More media available for BD, and HD was likely to die w/in a few months. Now, both of these reasons seem are completely off.

More media is available for BD, and they still have the upperhand in the format war. Without a 150 million dollar saving grace for the format, it would've been dead in a few months.

Moreover, the prices aren't more expensive for BD at retail (except for Fox, because they're assholes like that); especially when you account for combo discs.

And when you say cost concious; most of us BD supporters are gamers as well as HD enthusiasts. What's more cost concious then using all functions of something you've already bought, or weighing the benefits of the entire package against its cost?

 

[kaching]

Bourne Identity is very well put together as well.

The first is still the best. All the movies retained the edge of the first but the sequels lost a bit of soul when they killed off Franke's character.

 

[Raistlin]

I have an open dislike for Sony, but don't have an 360. I do have the original X-box though, and a Wii. My primary reasons for disliking Sony:

I'll bite. Here's my $0.02 on the subject

1) Everything they produce seems overpriced (even the price subsidized PS3)

While at times this is true, there is a valid reason. Sony is an R&D company first and foremost. They create new techs, and then need to recoup costs.

Sometimes they take it too far, but other times they actually have some of the best products at the price-point.

2) They effectively killed my favorite game company (Sega)

Sega killed Sega. Plain and simple.

3) They consistently push proprietary media

While they have created plenty, they also are license holders in tons of now 'standard' products. They are R&D, and sometimes try and go it alone. I too don't like that, but they have just as many products that they share or turned into to a platform. BD itself is actually a good example of attempting to establish a platform.

4) They have very questionable practices (i.e., fake blogs, fake movie reviewers, rootkit, etc.)

Consider the histories of all the companies invovled ... let's just call this a push

5) y mas...

???

 

[thaivo]

More media is available for BD, and they still have the upperhand in the format war. Without a 150 million dollar saving grace for the format, it would've been dead in a few months.

It was never certain that it was going to die in a few months, and this fact is even more questionable now.

Moreover, the prices aren't more expensive for BD at retail (except for Fox, because they're assholes like that); especially when you account for combo discs.

I'm not referring to media, but to the players. It's indisputable that HD DVD players are less expensive.

And when you say cost concious; most of us BD supporters are gamers as well as HD enthusiasts. What's more cost concious then using all functions of something you've already bought, or weighing the benefits of the entire package against its cost?

I wouldn't call someone who pays $600 for a game system "cost sensitive." :lol Me I have a Wii, in my mind that much more reflective of someone that is cost sensitive.

 

[Laurent]

IIRC, DVD didn't outsell VHS until a few years ago

SHOCK AND AWE!!!

So this war is going to last for at least a decade... Believe!

 

[ManaByte]

I'm not referring to media, but to the players. It's indisputable that HD DVD players are less expensive.

Shhhh. Let's not get into that.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

It was never certain that it was going to die in a few months, and this fact is even more than now.


I'm not referring to media, but to the players. It's indisputable that HD DVD players are less expensive.

I wouldn't call someone who pays $600 for a game system "cost sensitive." :lol Me I have a Wii, in my mind that much more reflective of someone that is cost sensitive.

And how much did you pay for your HD-DVD player?

At least $200 I imagine, and that's been generous, because there are no $199 HD-DVD players yet.

So for $450 you picked up a console and a HD-DVD player. For $50 more, you could've picked up a 20GB PS3.

Fair enough you have your gaming tastes in a Wii; but is there that large a difference between what you paid and what a PS3 owner pays?

 

[jjasper]

I'm not referring to media, but to the players. It's indisputable that HD DVD players are less expensive.

Well for some of us when we made the choice we had the option of
a) a $499 HD DVD player
b) a $499/$599 Blu Ray player that also played games

I thought the PS3 was the better value at the time.

 

[Raistlin]

SHOCK AND AWE!!!

So this war is going to last for at least a decade... Believe!

While the current generation appears more apt to taking on new technologies ...

... if people are actually talking about HD media beating DVD, if it does ever happen, yeah ... probably a decade. It could be less, but I would expect by all that much.

 

[thaivo]

Sometimes they take it too far, but other times they actually have some of the best products at the price-point.

I've read a few things from software developers that echo my thoughts. Sony allowed their zeal for the high-tech to over-rule their common sense. Not many people will plop down $600 for a game system, other than the hardcore.

Sega killed Sega. Plain and simple.

So without Sony's presence, the Dreamcast and Saturn would not have performed better?

???

It means "and more" in Spanish.