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[Kabuki Waq]

I keep seeing this "software is better on hd-dvd" but no matter how hard I look at the release lists I just don't see it.
But everyone has their own tastes.

obviously. They are better for my tastes.

 

[Chiggs]

Just about every statement about the TL51 discs has seemed to indicate that they would be compatible with existing hardware.

And those statements have certainly come from unbiased sources, haven't they?

Come on, this isn't even a format thing to me at this point, because I don't think triple layers will work for existing HD-DVD or Blu-ray players.

Believe it when I see it, I guess.

Asking folks to buy a gaming system instead isn't the best solution. There are a lot of folks who have no ties nor care to have any ties to a gaming system. Which is dumb, I know.

This is an extremely valid point. All I can say to that is at least Sony has made quite the effort not to market the PS3 as a game machine, as damning a praise that may be. :lol

 

[OokieSpookie]

Just about every statement about the TL51 discs has seemed to indicate that they would be compatible with existing hardware. If they are, then it's all good. Otherwise, I'll be as adamant as I am about the pathetic state of blu ray standalone devices and the garbage that is blu ray profiles.

Actually the last official statement from Toshiba techs said that they would not run on the first gen hd players (but how many of those are really out there anyway?)

 

[theBishop]

Better Michael Bay who has some insight into the movie business rather than random blogger with delusions of self importance which is usually the case.
I mean hell Spielberg and Bay are both supporters and that has to at least count for something.
I still can not say that I have seen anyone in the industry actually come out and say that they prefer hd-dvd.
I know in the grand scheme of things it means nothing, but it is still interesting.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying people shouldn't listen to him. His input is definitely more significant than (for example) my input.

It's just sad that it had to come to this.

 

[VanMardigan]

And those statements have certainly come from unbiased sources, haven't they?

Who would they be coming from at this point? Sony? Toshiba is the one developing these, they're the ones that got them approved, and they're the ones doing the testing. And as you guys love to point out all the time, who's the one doing the HD DVD players? TOSHIBA. So yeah, if there are positive signs coming from that camp about the TL51's working on existing hardware, I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like we won't find out if they're lying once the discs enter the production phase.

Again, if they don't work, it's actually worse than what the BDA is doing. Plus, they're hurting themselves since it's THEIR PLAYERS that can't play THEIR DISCS.

Actually the last official statement from Toshiba techs said that they would not run on the first gen hd players (but how many of those are really out there anyway?)

Got a link? The last thing I remember reading about these things is that they had a new angle or something on the laser that made these discs even more accessible by older players. Or something like that. So I missed the one about the 1st gen Toshiba's. And even if they're a small number, that would still be a slap in the face of those consumers. If true.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Two things:

1) I'm with Van, I don;t think our new friend is going to last long. And the other guy who asked if BB was OK spending $400 on a 360 ought to have his junk punched.

2) The profile thing is the last refuge of the HD-DVD faithful, I guess. Guys, this isn't about who *ought* to win, it's about who is *winning*. The profile thing doesn't seem to matter to the consumer much.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Who would they be coming from at this point? Sony? Toshiba is the one developing these, they're the ones that got them approved, and they're the ones doing the testing. And as you guys love to point out all the time, who's the one doing the HD DVD players? TOSHIBA. So yeah, if there are positive signs coming from that camp about the TL51's working on existing hardware, I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like we won't find out if they're lying once the discs enter the production phase.

Again, if they don't work, it's actually worse than what the BDA is doing. Plus, they're hurting themselves since it's THEIR PLAYERS that can't play THEIR DISCS.

does this sorta not make sense to anyone else?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Two things:

1) I'm with Van, I don;t think our new friend is going to last long. And the other guy who asked if BB was OK spending $400 on a 360 ought to have his junk punched.

Thank you, Ignatz. I am but a simple man who loves Lost. I have to say though, with Pixar and Lost on board, I would make a Blu Ray player my go to Hannukah gift if it was a bit more reasonably priced.

 

[VanMardigan]

does this sorta not make sense to anyone else?

probably that they were the ones that submitted the discs for approval. That's what I meant to say.

2) The profile thing is the last refuge of the HD-DVD faithful, I guess. Guys, this isn't about who *ought* to win, it's about who is *winning*. The profile thing doesn't seem to matter to the consumer much.

Well, it was in the context of a discussion. In response to someone posting a reason why he thinks his format should win. The format? Blu Ray.

 

[mrklaw]

To me it just boiled down to this:

1. The tech is inferior.

People can make all the arguments they want, like "closed spec" and "complete format" or "HDi" or what have you, but I think most people who have a clue tech-wise will acknowledge that Blu-ray is the superior format.

We have to be careful here. Leaving aside the Hdi/Java stuff, the technical performance of the disc itself is superior- higher bitrate, more storage. That isn't in doubt

However, there is still a reasonable question to ask - does that technical superiority manifest itself in discs that are noticable better in image and sound quality? Bearing in mind both use lossy formats for video, at what bitrate do you reach an acceptable level of transparancy to the original master?

It might be perfectly reasonable for both formats to fit quite comfortably in this. In which case bluray's technical superiority is less relevant.

 

[Chiggs]

It's not like we won't find out if they're lying once the discs enter the production phase.

That's what I'm waiting for. I want some actual proof. And then if an HD-DVD-equipped 360 appears on the horizon, I'll be game.

 

[theBishop]

We have to be careful here. Leaving aside the Hdi/Java stuff, the technical performance of the disc itself is superior- higher bitrate, more storage. That isn't in doubt

However, there is still a reasonable question to ask - does that technical superiority manifest itself in discs that are noticable better in image and sound quality? Bearing in mind both use lossy formats for video, at what bitrate do you reach an acceptable level of transparancy to the original master?

It might be perfectly reasonable for both formats to fit quite comfortably in this. In which case bluray's technical superiority is less relevant.

In the case of the new Harry Potter movies, on the Blu-Ray, the special features are in 1080p. On the HD-DVD: 480p.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

guys i havent really followed this thread much but is there a reason Batman Begins is nto on blu ray is this a movie specific HD DVD exclusive? what gives?

 

[OokieSpookie]

guys i havent really followed this thread much but is there a reason Batman Begins is nto on blu ray is this a movie specific HD DVD exclusive? what gives?

Batman Begins and the Matrix were both delayed on blu because Warner wanted to be able to have matching features.
You should definitely hear a Batman Begins date out of CES at the most before the Dark Knight hits but most likely spring.
The Matrix I am not overly concerned about though it is said to be coming along the same time line now that Warner has its hands on 1.1 and is said to be happy with it.
I just hope they release the first Matrix by itself.

 

[VanMardigan]

I think Toshiba paid for Batman and Matrix. What boggles my mind is why they didn't lock down 300 as well. It's not like the Blu Ray had matching features, so they could've used the same excuse.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Batman Begins and the Matrix were both delayed on blu because Warner wanted to be able to have matching features.
You should definitely hear a Batman Begins date out of CES at the most before the Dark Knight hits but most likely spring.
The Matrix I am not overly concerned about though it is said to be coming along the same time line now that Warner has its hands on 1.1 and is said to be happy with it.
I just hope they release the first Matrix by itself.

matching features with the HD DVD version? why could they not do that from the get go? lots of titles are released at the same time with matching features.

It doesnt really make sense to me? or am i just missing something ?

 

[OokieSpookie]

matching features with the HD DVD version? why could they not do that from the get go? lots of titles are released at the same time with matching features.

It doesnt really make sense to me? or am i just missing something ?

It is hard to tell who is trolling and who is not sometimes so I will take you as genuine at this point :lol .
At the time picture in picture and whatnot were not really fuctional on blu, they were on hd-dvd.
So they decided to hold them back until blu had the functionality.
I guess 300 would be the best thing to compare it to.
300 was a day and date release so they did not hold it back ( lucky for them when you look at the sales).
They have been mentioned numerous times by warner and will be coming.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

It is hard to tell who is trolling and who is not sometimes so I will take you as genuine at this point.
At the time picture in picture and whatnot were not really fuctional on blu, they were on hd-dvd.
So they decided to hold them back until blu had the functionality.
I guess 300 would be the best thing to compare it to.
300 was a day and date release so they did not hold it back ( lucky for them when you look at the sales).
They have been mentioned numerous times by warner and will be coming.

bare with me since i only have ps3. But is PIP available on my ps3? was it just a software update or is it a case of old blu ray players not being able to hand PIP?

 

[OokieSpookie]

I think Toshiba paid for Batman and Matrix. What boggles my mind is why they didn't lock down 300 as well. It's not like the Blu Ray had matching features, so they could've used the same excuse.

Toshiba paid for nothing.
If 300 was not a day and date release it would have been held also.

 

[OokieSpookie]

bare with me since i only have ps3. But is PIP available on my ps3? was it just a software update or is it a case of old blu ray players not being able to hand PIP?

It is now and the PS3 can continue to be updated with new fuctionality as it comes.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Well, it was in the context of a discussion. In response to someone posting a reason why he thinks his format should win. The format? Blu Ray.

Van, you are right and I find the "Blu-ray should win" just as frustrating. The whole thread is about this right now.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

It is now and the PS3 can continue to be updated with new fuctionality as it comes.

ah thats good to know.

At first i was sort of an HD movie hater but then i got a few blu ray movies and eventually it got harder and harder to go back to DVDs. ( I am such a whore) and now i have to catch up with all the HD Warz stuff. Currently have not much of a clue which players are better etc... I just dont want to invest in the losing horse.


so let me get this straight

No MATRIX
No Batman Begins
No TRansfromers


and yet Blu Ray still winning ?


i can see why HD DVD adopters might be a little bit bitter/worried

 

[Xater]

ah thats good to know.

At first i was sort of an HD movie hater but then i got a few blu ray movies and eventually it got harder and harder to go back to DVDs. ( I am such a whore) and now i have to catch up with all the HD Warz stuff. Currently have not much of a clue which players are better etc... I just dont want to invest in the losing horse.


so let me get this straight

No MATRIX
No Batman Begins
No TRansfromers


and yet Blu Ray still winning ?


i can see why HD DVD adopters might be a little bit bitter/worried

Matrix + Batman coming and Matrix is shit anyway.

 

[Chemo]

so let me get this straight

No MATRIX
No Batman Begins
No TRansfromers


and yet Blu Ray still winning ?


i can see why HD DVD adopters might be a little bit bitter/worried

Well, to be fair, The Matrix isn't exactly a draw anymore... and it's not like Blu-ray doesn't have its own blockbuster exclusives.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

yea not a big Matrix fan either but from sales perspective i would think this title would have been a biggie.

 

[krypt0nian]

It is now and the PS3 can continue to be updated with new fuctionality as it comes.

Any word as to when this will happen? When did they talk about this last?

 

[Warm Machine]

Only thing about the war as it stands now is the Ps3 is most certainly helping sell BR movies. Being in 3rd means the machine will top out at low double digit millions. The BR format (just like HD-DVD) needs a wider throw and no top out. Thats why I think stand alones are so important.

 

[Chiggs]

Any word as to when this will happen? When did they talk about this last?

The 1.1 update is supposed to be this month.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Only thing about the war as it stands now is the Ps3 is most certainly helping sell BR movies. Being in 3rd means the machine will top out at low double digit millions. The BR format (just like HD-DVD) needs a wider throw and no top out. Thats why I think stand alones are so important.

If this follows DVD, that will come with cheaper players, and people will buy the format that's more entrenched. See also DVD vs DiVX. Blu-ray has nothing to worry about except gaining/losing studio support.

 

[InterMoniker]

Well, it was in the context of a discussion. In response to someone posting a reason why he thinks his format should win. The format? Blu Ray.

Van, you are right and I find the "Blu-ray should win" just as frustrating. The whole thread is about this right now.

And the whole "Hd-Dvd should win" isn't what you two are doing? :lol

Sorry if you guys can't handle my opinions. Your on one side of the fence I'm on the other.

 

[maynerd]

What the heck is this?!

Kill Bill on BR? Sign me UP!

Also...

Blu-ray Owns 95% of Australian HD Market

On the heels of Video Ezy announcing they would only support Blu-ray, GfK (in association with Sony) has released a report stating that Blu-ray owned 95.2% of the high definition market in Australia for October. Blu-ray hardware (including the PS3) sold 26-to-1 compared to its rival HD DVD. Additionally, software sales were 18,000 units sold for Blu-ray compared to only 2,000 for HD DVD.

Carl Rose, Managing Director of Sony Australia commented, "This report quite clearly depicts the current state of play in the High Definition format market in Australian homes. Across the key areas of high definition entertainment, from hardware to content, these figures show that Blu-ray is distinctly the format of choice for consumers. Coming into Christmas we can only predict that adoption will continue to increase thanks to the backing of the format by the greatest number of electronics hardware manufacturers and movie and game development studios"

 

[VanMardigan]

yea not a big Matrix fan either but from sales perspective i would think this title would have been a biggie.

It wasn't, and likely because you had to buy all three rather than being able to buy just the first one. I have the set and it looks/sounds spectacular, but I can definitely understand why most people wouldn't bother.

And in terms of blockbusters, the BDA companies (with Warner) have the lead in terms of top grossing movies for the last decade.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

We have to be careful here. Leaving aside the Hdi/Java stuff, the technical performance of the disc itself is superior- higher bitrate, more storage. That isn't in doubt

However, there is still a reasonable question to ask - does that technical superiority manifest itself in discs that are noticable better in image and sound quality? Bearing in mind both use lossy formats for video, at what bitrate do you reach an acceptable level of transparancy to the original master?

It might be perfectly reasonable for both formats to fit quite comfortably in this. In which case bluray's technical superiority is less relevant.

Let's look at the the Harry Potter HDDVD discs. They have IME and other stuff, but all the extras are in 480p, because they either ran out of bandwidth, or disc space. The Blu-ray doesn't have IME, but have a crazy amount of audio tracks and all extras in HD. If 1.1 was available, IME would be no problem. As we move forward to 2008, there will be more interactive stuff from both formats, and more bandwidth and disc space will be required. This is where HD DVD is the loser. It's always a compromise with the format - and always will unless the 51gb discs comes out - if ever.

It's not just about picture and sound only.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Any word as to when this will happen? When did they talk about this last?

All anyone will confirm is this month, it was mentioned on the PS blog not that long ago and an insider confirmed a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

It wasn't, and likely because you had to buy all three rather than being able to buy just the first one. I have the set and it looks/sounds spectacular, but I can definitely understand why most people wouldn't bother.

And in terms of blockbusters, the BDA companies (with Warner) have the lead in terms of top grossing movies for the last decade.

I guess Pixar and the Pirate movies are there.

To be honest just like VHS and Beta, Porn will be the deciding factor, so which format is porn backing between the two?

 

[InterMoniker]

What the heck is this?!

Kill Bill on BR? Sign me UP!

Also...

Blu-ray Owns 95% of Australian HD Market

Wonderful news.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

And the whole "Hd-Dvd should win" isn't what you two are doing?

Sorry if you guys can't handle my opinions.

Keep up, junior, I'm one of the most pro-Blu people on the thread, if not *the* most pro-Blu. It's just that I am pro-Blu because I want one single winner and I believe it has (and has long had) the best chance of that happening.

Arguing over the superiority of the format as a reason why it should or shouldn't come out on top shows ignorance of decades of technology marketing. Formats don't win or lose because they are superior.

 

[krypt0nian]

All anyone will confirm is this month, it was mentioned on the PS blog not that long ago and an insider confirmed a couple of weeks ago.

@PS3: Have i told you lately that I love you?

 

[OokieSpookie]

Only thing about the war as it stands now is the Ps3 is most certainly helping sell BR movies. Being in 3rd means the machine will top out at low double digit millions. The BR format (just like HD-DVD) needs a wider throw and no top out. Thats why I think stand alones are so important.

All the PS3 has to do is what it is doing which is countering any desperation move that Toshiba throws out there.
While the PS3 counters that, the stand alones continue to come down in price and that trend will go on.
You can get stand alones for 299 if you look right now, and next week and the week after you will see some nice sales on stand alones as well as the PS3.
(For example the PS3 at walmart will give you a 50$ gift card)
All of those stand alones are bonus and will be what solidify things.

 

[Oni Jazar]

January releases for both formats:

January 1st:
Blu-ray releases:
Shoot 'Em Up (New Line)
War (Lionsgate)
Resident Evil (Sony)
Resident Evil Trilogy (Sony)
Resident Evil: Extinction (Sony)

HD-DVD Releases:
None

January 8th
Blu-ray releases:
3:10 to Yuma (2007) (Lionsgate)
Con Air (Buena Vista)
Dragon Wars (Sony)
The Invasion (Warner)
Killing Machine / Shogun's Ninja (Double Feature) (BCI)
Man on Fire (Fox)
Night of the Werewolf / Vengeance of the Zombies (Deimos)
The Rock (Buena Vista)
Sister Street Fighter / Sister Street Fighter 2 (Double Feature) (BCI)
Sunshine (Fox)

HD-DVD Releases:
Galaxina (BCI)
The Invasion (Warner)
Mobsters (Universal)
The Pianist (Universal)
The Road to Bali / The Road to Rio (Double Feature) (BCI)
White Noise (Universal)
White Noise 2: The Light (Universal)
Zodiac: Director's Cut (Paramount)

January 15th
Blu-ray releases:
Breaker Morant (Image)
Good Luck Chuck (Lionsgate)
Mr. Woodcock (New Line)
Suburban Girl (Image)
Went To Coney Island On A Mission From God... Be Back By Five (Starz)

HD-DVD Releases:
None

January 22nd
Blu-ray releases:
The Game Plan (Walt Disney)
Initial D (Tai Seng)
Saw IV (Lionsgate)

HD-DVD Releases:
Channels (Vanguard Cinema)
Method Man: Live from the Sunset Strip (Music Distribution)

January 29th
Blu-ray releases:
Daddy Day Camp (Sony)
Damages: The Complete First Season (Sony)
Dispatch: Zimbabwe - Live at Madison Square Garden (Warner Music Group)
King of California (First Look)
Monty Python's Life of Brian (Sony)

HD-DVD Releases:
Dispatch: Zimbabwe - Live at Madison Square Garden (Warner Music Group)
King of California (First Look)

 

[InterMoniker]

Keep up, junior, I'm one of the most pro-Blu people on the thread, if not *the* most pro-Blu. It's just that I am pro-Blu because I want one single winner and I believe it has (and has long had) the best chance of that happening.

Arguing over the superiority of the format as a reason why it should or shouldn't come out on top shows ignorance of decades of technology marketing. Formats don't win or lose because they are superior.

Well if superiority doesn't matter it's a good thing BR is selling more because I would rather have the format with the best quality prevail.

 

[Chiggs]

HD-DVD Absent from High-Def 2.0 Conference

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#blog20

Well... we're back from High-Def 2.0, which was actually quite a lot of fun. Perhaps the biggest surprise of the Home Media-sponsored conference (and something that was a definite topic of discussion among the attendees over the course of the day) is that the HD-DVD format was a total no-show. Not a single representative of the format was in attendance, despite the fact that they were invited and genuine efforts were made to keep the conference panels and events balanced. What's more, a number of HD-DVD titles won honors at the High-Def Awards last evening (click here for the details), and only Warner and Paramount sent representatives to accept. Universal was represented by no one.

PS3 1.1 Update Expected this Month

It was also revealed that the Blu-ray profile 1.1 firmware update for the PS3 is expected to be made available for download later this month.

 

[Snidely Whiplash]

The only thing I'll be getting that month.
January 8th
Blu-ray releases:
3:10 to Yuma (2007) (Lionsgate)

 

[Forsete]

Apocalypto best IQ thus far?

http://static.pici.se/pictures/SaPXOamhS.jpg

http://static.pici.se/pictures/zWgWEEehJ.jpg

http://static.pici.se/pictures/xkMpATbaW.jpg

This was recorded with a digital camera, correct?

 

[yacobod]

i've had 3:10 to yuma (BRD) and Zodiac (HDDVD) on preorder for a while now

will be great week for movies at home on jan 8th

 

[Outdoor Miner]

January and February are going to be ridiculous for releases.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Feb for blu has:
Run Lola Run
Dogma
30 Days of Night
Gone Baby Gone
We Own the Night
Becoming Jane
Across the Universe
Jane Austin Book Club
No Reservations

 

[VanMardigan]

Let's look at the the Harry Potter HDDVD discs.

Let's look at them, then. According to High Def Digest:

As the first Warner domestic high-def 'Harry Potter' release to come our way for review, this HD DVD edition of 'Order of the Phoenix' is an excellent start, boasting exceptional video and audio. Even better for HD DVD fans, this next-gen edition of the flick exceeds its Blu-ray counterpart when it comes to high-def exclusives, boasting a unique In-Movie Experience track and several web-enabled features. Alas, all here is not perfect, with the Blu-ray version boasting a superior standard supplements package that features full 1080p video and a 44-minute TV special that didn't make cut on this HD DVD. Still, given the sheer amount of cutting-edge supplements produced specifically for HD DVD, this disc ultimately edges out its Blu-ray rival by half a point overall.

So while the space is most certainly an issue, so is the lack of interactivity on Blu Ray. It's not just about picture and sound as you just mentioned, right? It's just perspective, and yours is skewed blu. You nonchalantly dismiss the TL51 because it's not out right now, while at the same time giving blu a pass for features THEY DON'T HAVE RIGHT NOW. Blu will have 1.1 next year? Great, how about 2.0? Then how about TL51? I agree about the space issue, but the Harry Potter disc is a PERFECT example of each format's strenght's and weaknesses. To acknowledge one while ignoring the other shows obvious bias. In the same way that blu owners can shrug off the lack of proper interactive/web features by pointing to next year in a vague fashion, so can HD DVD owners when faced with space issues. Both are affecting releases THIS YEAR. And in both cases, what's really important according to everyone here (the actual movie), is identical on both formats.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Let's look at them, then. According to High Def Digest:



So while the space is most certainly an issue, so is the lack of interactivity on Blu Ray. It's not just about picture and sound as you just mentioned, right? It's just perspective, and yours is skewed blu. You nonchalantly dismiss the TL51 because it's not out right now, while at the same time giving blu a pass for features THEY DON'T HAVE RIGHT NOW. Blu will have 1.1 next year? Great, how about 2.0? Then how about TL51? I agree about the space issue, but the Harry Potter disc is a PERFECT example of each format's strenght's and weaknesses. To acknowledge one while ignoring the other shows obvious bias. In the same way that blu owners can shrug off the lack of proper interactive/web features by pointing to next year in a vague fashion, so can HD DVD owners when faced with space issues. Both are affecting releases THIS YEAR. And in both cases, what's really important according to everyone here (the actual movie), is identical on both formats.

Every time I think Van has a shred of sense he proves me wrong.
I mean ignore the fact that the blu has all of it's bonus features in hd (why not the reviewer did but we know his history don't we?)
Ignore the fact that the blu has the extra doc on it ( also in hd ).

You are correct though it does point to the differences.
Blu has every feature that matters and even more.
Hd has something that 2% of people will use but it looks great in list wars and for headlines but at the end of the day it provides nothing.

 

[VanMardigan]

Every time I think Van has a shred of sense he proves me wrong.
I mean ignore the fact that the blu has all of it's bonus features in hd (why not the reviewer did but we know his history don't we?)
Ignore the fact that the blu has the extra doc on it ( also in hd ).

You are correct though it does point to the differences.
Blu has every feature that matters and even more.
Hd has something that 2% of people will use but it looks great in list wars and for headlines but at the end of the day it provides nothing.

So now the reviewer has bias and you missed the post about the percentage of HD DVD buyers who take their movies online? Whatever dude. Blu has all the features that matter to YOU, and that's fine, even if you were among those saying special features didn't matter when HD DVD had the clear advantage.

About the 1.1 update for Ps3, what's the first title to support this feature? I've said before how much I love this feature on HD DVD and I hope it's on every damn blu ray release from here on out.