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[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm not sure what FUD you think I'm spreading. The new rumor suggests that MS may have included/wanted to include DD exclusivity to HD-DVD deals, and that they may have been involved with the Paramount deal as well. I'm not sure how this equates to any Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt regarding HD-DVD.

At least these rumors make the longstanding belief about MS wanting to push for DD make more sense, nuts and bolts, as to how they would benefit.

 

[VanMardigan]

poly: better to post smilies when unable to make a coherent argument, I always say.

And ignatz: MS' stance has always been clear. They want DD to succeed. They want HD DVD to succeed. Everyone talks about the small number of companies in the HD DVD consortium as opposed to the BDA, but that means at least one thing for the HD DVD companies: bigger pieces of the pie to the companies involved. The success of HD DVD (or even 50% of the HD disc market) would provide MS with a very large revenue stream for their encoding (VC1) and interactivity implementation (iHD). They'll have a much larger piece of the revenue pie than (insert random Blu Ray company) if HD DVD is successful. If HD DVD becomes the successor to dvd, or even if both formats grow and the split is even, the revenues MS will make from that will dwarf whatever they can make from HD downloads. At least for the majority of the lifecycle on the HD DVD format (5-10 years).

MS is a natural competitor with Apple in DD, they're a natural competitor to Java in the interactivity implementation, and a natural competitor to Sony in the console/media hub department. HD DVD is a natural fit for them, and the success of HD DVD will bring about rewards for them in the same way that it would for, say, Panasonic in the BDA. And much more so than Apple. It's fine to talk about how much MS wants their digital download service to succeed, but everyone here keeps talking as if MS wants HD DVD to tank, as if they have nothing to gain from HD DVD winning this format war. If that were true, MS wouldn't be in discussions with WB to spend ungodly amounts of money, so that they can benefit in the two areas they care about, DD and HD DVD.

 

[polyh3dron]

you go off on a tangent about Apple when they aren't even much of a player in this format war, make a horrible SACD/DVDA analogy and put a bunch of smilies in there and I'm the one who can't make a coherent argument.
:lol

 

[Opus Angelorum]

@ polyhh3dron

Steve Jobs is on the Board of Directors for the Blu-Ray Association.

 

[fse]

apple is also gonna have movie rentals.

 

[VanMardigan]

My point is: The current king of digital distribution sits on the BDA, and nobody cares. MS, who has a vested interest in HD DVD, more so (by your own admission) than Apple, picks a side which makes sense relative to their natural competition, and now you claim that they don't care about the format, that they want it to tank? Why? So digital distribution can grow, when we've had examples of both mediums co-existing for quite a bit of time on the music front. And movie downloads are nowhere near the level of success right now of music downloads, meaning that MS paying money NOW to kill off a potentially huge revenue stream for them (HD DVD) is an embarrassingly illogical console-fanboy argument.

 

[polyh3dron]

@ opus

I'm not stupid, I know that. Do you seriously mean to tell me that Apple has the same role in the BDA that MS does in the HD DVD PRG? It's not even close. Apple doesn't even include BD drives as an option in any of their Macs yet.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Same role? Absolutely not.

Apple not a major player? Wrong.

 

[VanMardigan]

What is apple's role in all this? Once they unveil their (inevitable) HD movie service, will they suddenly want Blu Ray to die as well, even while sitting on the BDA board?

Or is that scenario only applicable to your console archnemesis?

 

[polyh3dron]

My point, let me show you it: MS would benefit more from HDM dying out and they are using their moneyhats in an attempt to sign studios like Warner to their DD service exclusively and they are piggybacking this onto any HD DVD talks.

 

[VanMardigan]

My point, let me show you it: MS would benefit more from HDM dying out

How? Can you show me how this is so, given how deep they are into every aspect of HD DVD technology and implementation? When every Toshiba player ships with iHD, when so many HD DVD movies ship with VC1, compared to a tiny amount on Blu Ray? When they sit alongside Toshiba as the most to gain from HD DVD winning this war?

And as an aside, would Apple also not benefit more from HDM dying once their HD movie service is unveiled?

Again, I'd just like to know how one DD provider wants HDM to die, while the LARGEST DD provider is totally for HDM succeeding.

 

[polyh3dron]

What is apple's role in all this? Once they unveil their (inevitable) HD movie service, will they suddenly want Blu Ray to die as well, even while sitting on the BDA board?

Or is that scenario only applicable to your console archnemesis?

That scenario IS only applicable to MS who is not actually my console archnemesis since I do own a 360 as well as the HD DVD add-on, but thanks for playing.

MS is HD DVD's lifeblood, infusing the HD DVD PRG with a shitload of cash, helping pay off Paramount and also paying for a large chunk of HD DVD's marketing (see the HDi ads floating around for example). The director of HD DVD Evangelism (Kevin Collins) is employed by Microsoft to further this point. MS has the power to stop HD DVD dead in its tracks if the format ever ceases to be part of their agenda whereas Apple is in no such position because they merely sit on the BDA and that is the largest extent of their involvement.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

The video will look as good as the software you have on your PC, you main concern is making sure you computer is fast enough to decode it.
I would not go this route, but I'm not sure what type of setup you have.

with the gfx upgrades and probably others i'd need to make it could near the same price as the A3+PS3.

 

[polyh3dron]

And as an aside, would Apple also not benefit more from HDM dying once their HD movie service is unveiled?

Of course they would, but they're not pouring money into the losing format to cause a stalemate now, are they..

 

[miyamotofreak]

Just got a ps3 what should I pick for the free movies. Out of the first set, I'm pretty sure I want the Prestige. From the second set I want to get Superman. From the third set I'll get American Psycho. From the fourth set I'll get The Patriot. But I have no idea what to get from the 5th set. The choices are
Chain Reaction
Hart’s War
Omen 666
The Last Waltz
Flight Of The Phoenix
Species

GAF HELP!

 

[polyh3dron]

Just got a ps3 what should I pick for the free movies. Out of the first set, I'm pretty sure I want the Prestige. From the second set I want to get Superman. From the third set I'll get American Psycho. From the fourth set I'll get The Patriot. But I have no idea what to get from the 5th set. The choices are
Chain Reaction
Hart’s War
Omen 666
The Last Waltz
Flight Of The Phoenix
Species

GAF HELP!

umm Species... crappy selection there tho.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Just got a ps3 what should I pick for the free movies. Out of the first set, I'm pretty sure I want the Prestige. From the second set I want to get Superman. From the third set I'll get American Psycho. From the fourth set I'll get The Patriot. But I have no idea what to get from the 5th set. The choices are
Chain Reaction
Hart’s War
Omen 666
The Last Waltz
Flight Of The Phoenix
Species

GAF HELP!

Looking at rottentomoates %... Hart’s War or The Last Waltz if you like the music. The others are shit unless you are horny(Species).

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Species.

Natasha Henstridge naked in HD.

 

[Ponn]

Just got a ps3 what should I pick for the free movies. Out of the first set, I'm pretty sure I want the Prestige. From the second set I want to get Superman. From the third set I'll get American Psycho. From the fourth set I'll get The Patriot. But I have no idea what to get from the 5th set. The choices are
Chain Reaction
Hart’s War
Omen 666
The Last Waltz
Flight Of The Phoenix
Species

GAF HELP!

Yea, that last category is a shitty list.

 

[StoOgE]

last waltz by the band is great

 

[miyamotofreak]

Picked Species, will sell it anyway.

 

[MechDX]

Picked Species, will sell it anyway.

Not horny eh?:lol

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I've always figured that MS commitment to HD-DVD had more to do with the console race. MS makes it difficult for Sony to have an advantage, if MS had not supported HD-DVD there isn't much doubt IMO that Blu-Ray would be at this very moment the only HD medium. Making it easier for consumers to justify the purchase of a PS3.

 

[Chiggs]

last waltz by the band is great

Picked this up yesterday. Van Morrison's performance is fucking awesome.

 

[Chiggs]

Considering that the development of Windows Vista cost an estimated $10 Billion, if anyone thinks Microsoft are going to give up on HD-DVD easily...

I can't even believe you're comparing the two. One is obviously more important to the company...you know, its "bread and butter."

 

[Shoho]

Not horny eh?:lol

oh god... i remember the scene where the astronout has sex with does two girls.. oh god no. ohh god... that was the most disturbing thing that i have ever seen. its up there with 2girls1cup. omg makes me not so sad that I am a virgin.

 

[MechDX]

Question to the regulars in this thread:

If Warner Bros. sides with the opposite of your format of choice. What would you do?

Ive just been reading all the rumors and reports flying around today and have noticed some people at BD.com and HDD that said they would stop buying HD movies altogether.:lol

Just wondering what the GAF view is.

I am neutral so it doesnt bother me in the least.

 

[M3Freak]

Sure, if they are encoded with MPEG2
And even the poor low bitrate codecs get full star reviews. Life is shit eh?

24mb is enough for everyone. DD is the future.

That won't work in practice, especially in today's environment. 24 Mbps is cutting it too close.

For streaming to work, I bet we'll need at least 50% more headroom than the peak rate for hi-def movies. That will help to ensure playback isn't interupetted when their is network contention (e.g. someone in your house is downloading or uploading a big file).

Plusl, to ensure the experience is seamless (i.e. just as good as a watching a movie on BD, etc.), ISPs would have to start [bold]guaranteeing[/bold] throughput to consumers. That is, if someone buys a 25 Mbps service, the ISP would have to guarantee the consumer actually gets 25 Mbps. Today's "up to" shit won't work because people won't accept playback hiccups - I sure wouldn't.

50 Mbps for streaming and 100 Mbps for downloading are the safest options. Less than that, and the content providers and broadcasters are going to get their asses handed to them by the consumer.

BTW, I don't want 720p - I want 1080i or 1080p. I don't care if "720p is good enough". I paid for a 1080p set, and I better get my "Full HD" content.

Having said

 

[BoboBrazil]

If Warner supports blu-ray=we will have a 1 format future that can rightfully take the place of dvd.

If Warner supports hd-dvd=we will have this divide in the market which will ultimately make both niche products.

I don't see how anyone can want Warner to support hd-dvd exclusively...it just doesn't make sense...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I've always figured that MS commitment to HD-DVD had more to do with the console race. MS makes it difficult for Sony to have an advantage, if MS had not supported HD-DVD there isn't much doubt IMO that Blu-Ray would be at this very moment the only HD medium. Making it easier for consumers to justify the purchase of a PS3.

Boiled down for simplicity. Implying a parallel situation with Apple is just plain dumb. As pointed out, Apple's not pouring money into Blu-ray the way MS is with HD-DVD (probably not outright cash for Paramount, but according to reports, money for WB exclusivity wiith a DD rider).

If Apple were trying to buy out WB or Universal and were tying it to the iTunes store, you might have point.

 

[VanMardigan]

In one page, the argument is made that digital downloads simply is not ready for mass consumption, and may not be for a long time. In the next page, MS is said to be throwing hundreds of millions of dollars away so that they can kill off a viable source of revenue and bet their farm on digital downloads.

If Apple were trying to buy out WB or Universal and were tying it to the iTunes store, you might have point.

Which is, what, that Apple wanted to destroy Blu Ray? Cause that's the argument being made for MS pouring cash out for WB.

I don't see how anyone can want Warner to support hd-dvd exclusively...it just doesn't make sense...

You are right, I don't see any other outcome besides those you listed. NONE.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Question to the regulars in this thread:

If Warner Bros. sides with the opposite of your format of choice. What would you do?

Ive just been reading all the rumors and reports flying around today and have noticed some people at BD.com and HDD that said they would stop buying HD movies altogether.:lol

Just wondering what the GAF view is.

I am neutral so it doesnt bother me in the least.

Go neutral, rent more and buy less.

WB going HD-DVD would mean the war would stretch out and both formats would have a dubious format, so I'd pick up a cheap player for rental purposes and forget about buying movies in general for the most part and just rent (movies, not players, are the true cost of supporting a format).

 

[golem]

If Warner supports blu-ray=we will have a 1 format future that can rightfully take the place of dvd.

If Warner supports hd-dvd=we will have this divide in the market which will ultimately make both niche products.

I don't see how anyone can want Warner to support hd-dvd exclusively...it just doesn't make sense...

as long as the war continues, companies will have to give consumers what they want- cheaper prices and more features

if there wasnt a war imo we'd all be dealing with $500 half-spec players, $30 movies (which they still want to push on us), and a limited selection

 

[polyh3dron]

Question to the regulars in this thread:

If Warner Bros. sides with the opposite of your format of choice. What would you do?

I've got players for both and will be getting a combo player soon so i'll just buy whatever..

I just want to be able to watch LOTR:ROTK:EE on one disc without the video or audio qualitty being compromised and HD DVD can't offer me that. Blu-ray is a technically superior format and I want the technically superior format to win.

Also, I just want the war to be over already so that HDM has a chance of surviving long term so that we will continue to get HD movies on disc in the years to come, and Warner going Blu will make this happen quicker than Warner going Red (75/25 vs 50/50 studio support).

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

In one page, the argument is made that digital downloads simply is not ready for mass consumption, and may not be for a long time. In the next page, MS is said to be throwing hundreds of millions of dollars away so that they can kill off a viable source of revenue and bet their farm on digital downloads.



Which is, what, that Apple wanted to destroy Blu Ray? Cause that's the argument being made for MS pouring cash out for WB.

Without MS, HD-DVD would be in worse shape already. The argument isn't that they're trying to kill HD-DVD, but that they're propping it up to ensure a Blu loss in the longer term (and that they have no faith in the long-term viability of HD-DVD).

For those of you out there who can't wait for the iTunisification (or similar) of movies, you may not care, but those of us who like to own physical, high-quality copies of media, we care.

 

[VanMardigan]

(and that they have no faith in the long-term viability of HD-DVD).

Why is this?

 

[BoboBrazil]

I don't want this dual format future to go on. I want all movies on one format. Blu-ray is the superior format. Warner going exclusive to blu-ray makes this come faster.

 

[MechDX]

Also, I just want the war to be over already so that HDM has a chance of surviving long term so that we will continue to get HD movies on disc in the years to come, and Warner going Blu will make this happen quicker than Warner going Red (75/25 vs 50/50 studio support).

I borrowed this from a poster at HDD:

Onto the subject of WB. If they did go HD DVD exclusive, here's how that looks.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php
http://www.hddvdstats.com/index.php

Buena Vista 54 20.53%
Fox 46 17.49%
Lionsgate 32 12.17%
MGM 13 4.94%
Sony 98 37.26%
Magnolia 11 4.18%
Concert Hot Spot 4 1.52%
Discovery Channel 5 1.90%
Total - 263

DreamWorks 7 1.94%
Paramount 40 11.08%
Universal 140 38.78%
Warner 125 34.63%
Weinstein 11 3.05%
DVD International 9 2.49%
Magnolia 7 1.94%
Concert Hot Spot 5 1.39%
Discovery Channel 5 1.39%
Rhino 6 1.66%
Image 6 1.66%
Total - 361

That's not a 50/50 split in my view. Warner is the second biggest studio in terms of HD DVD releases, but they are the biggest studio in terms of Blu-ray releases. If Blu-ray lost the studio with the greatest number of titles released in that format I believe it would be a killing blow.

If they went Blu-ray exclusive it would look like this.

Buena Vista 54 14.71%
Fox 46 12.53%
Lionsgate 32 8.72%
MGM 13 3.54%
Sony 98 26.70%
Warner 104 28.34%
Magnolia 11 3.00%
Concert Hot Spot 4 1.09%
Discovery Channel 5 1.36%
Total - 367

DreamWorks 7 2.97%
Paramount 40 16.95%
Universal 140 59.32%
Weinstein 11 4.66%
DVD International 9 3.81%
Magnolia 7 2.97%
Concert Hot Spot 5 2.12%
Discovery Channel 5 2.12%
Rhino 6 2.54%
Image 6 2.54%
Total - 236

Similarly, it would be a killing blow to HD DVD. Warner is the king maker, and the format they choose will be in the drivers seat.

.

I dont understand where this "WB goes BD its over/WB goes HD its a stalemate" this is from. Looking at these numbers whichever way WB goes will more than likely be the winner.

 

[VanMardigan]

WB would be king maker, because Fox/Disney/Universal/Paramount wouldn't stay put for long after that, you would imagine. But I've said before that I don't think WB wants to be the kingmaker, and alienate some close business partners on both sides. I think they rather the market play kingmaker, as long as that's been taking.

 

[polyh3dron]

WB would be king maker, because Fox/Disney/Universal/Paramount wouldn't stay put for long after that, you would imagine. But I've said before that I don't think WB wants to be the kingmaker, and alienate some close business partners on both sides. I think they rather the market play kingmaker, as long as that's been taking.

Which format has outsold the other in copies of movies sold for every week in 2007?

Hint: not HDDVD.

 

[MechDX]

Which format has outsold the other in copies of movies sold for every week in 2007?

Hint: not HDDVD.

DVD?:lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Why is this?

Because they can see the sales numbers as well as anyone else, and they know that it would be worse without their help?

 

[quest]

If Warner supports blu-ray=we will have a 1 format future that can rightfully take the place of dvd.

If Warner supports hd-dvd=we will have this divide in the market which will ultimately make both niche products.

I don't see how anyone can want Warner to support hd-dvd exclusively...it just doesn't make sense...

And what has blu done again to deserve to win? It is the 3 different specs? Is it the high priced standalone players? Is it the players that need mulitple firmware updates? Hd-dvd also has not done enough to deserve to win.

I still stand by wanting warner to stay neutral to force both sides to get off their asses and fix issues so we can have a real successor to DVD. I am sorry the average joe is not going to pay 20x the price for a player and 2x the cost of movies for PQ/SQ. When one format has 99 dollar bullet proof players and a max of 24.99 on new release movies then we can talk about one side winning.

All warner going blu will do is slow down players from dropping in cost and movies costing 2x as much because bye bye bogos.

 

[VanMardigan]

Which format has outsold the other in copies of movies sold for every week in 2007?

Hint: not HDDVD.

And if Blu can continue to grow that lead, I'm sure the dominos will fall without WB having to be the one doing the crowning. That's what I meant. At 40% plus a standalone lead in a still relatively small market, there's still incentive for Toshiba to push forward. But if Blu can push that more towards 20% by the end of next year, that may just do it. Of course, they have the $99 player card to play still, and software sales have been very strong for them this holiday season. Definitely not signs of a format slowing down.

Because they can see the sales numbers as well as anyone else, and they know that it would be worse without their help?

If that were the case, I'm not sure what spending a half billion or more on WB would accomplish for them, especially if it props HD DVD to at least a 50% market share and longer term viability. That is, if destroying HD DVD and Blu Ray is really their goal.

If this were about catalog releases, there might be a point.

WB is THE biggest selling High Def studio. That's really all that matters in the discussion.

 

[polyh3dron]

DVD?:lol

We're talking high def here, jackass.

More bottles of water get sold than HDM and DVD combined too so that must mean movies are doomed.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I borrowed this from a poster at HDD:



I dont understand where this "WB goes BD its over/WB goes HD its a stalemate" this is from. Looking at these numbers whichever way WB goes will more than likely be the winner.

List does not reflect the recent increase in releases from Disney and Fox.

List is not weighted for new releases or box office results.

If this were about catalog releases, there might be a point.

 

[MechDX]

We're talking high def here, jackass.

More bottles of water get sold than HDM and DVD combined too so that must mean movies are doomed.

Calm down, I keed.

 

[mollipen]

No, it's two of the best AV technologies in the last decade. Fact.

Two of the best AV technologies in the last decade? I mean, I love my Blu-ray discs, but they're high def transfers slapped onto souped-up CDs with a few extra features tossed in. Not only are HD-DVD and Blu-ray nowhere near the potential point that they could be at technology wise, they aren't even close to the point they SHOULD be at.

 

[MechDX]

List does not reflect the recent increase in releases from Disney and Fox.

List is not weighted for new releases or box office results.

If this were about catalog releases, there might be a point.

1) Yes it does. It shows SC3 and Pirates 3. Is there some I am missing?

2) So we are basing it on future potential? I always thought BD fan mantra was "Neilsons is 2:1!!!"?

3) The majority of releases on HD are catalog. One reason for the studios supporting the new format is because DVD sales are pretty much flat with no potential for future growth. They need to repackage their movies again for more revenue.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think I must misunderstand this list then. Is this current sales overall? I thought it was initial boxoffice *of* those films, and a blockbuster from 10 years ago != blockbuster from 2007.

When I say new releases, I mean day/date releases, not future releases.