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[polyh3dron]

Calm down, I keed.

No, you deflect.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Actually, it looks like that's just percentages of titles released, period. So that means that the list is weighing Blazing Saddles equal to The Departed.

Any guesses about the slant of the person who put the list together? :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

WB is the single best selling HD studio. No slant needed, really.

 

[polyh3dron]

WB is the single best selling HD studio. No slant needed, really.

Yes, because they release in both formats. Many of their catalog titles don't sell so well however and they inflate the numbers, this is where the slant comes from.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The simplest thing to look at is Box Office of the last year or two. No slant required, and WB makes it more like even.

 

[polyh3dron]

The simplest thing to look at is Box Office of the last year or two. No slant required, and WB makes it more like even.

Even if WB goes HD DVD that is, 75/25 if WB goes Blu.

Therefore, if WB goes Blu, war is over, BD wins.

If WB goes HD DVD, it's a stalemate and both formats are more likely to die off.

 

[Shoho]

Okay guys. I don't know how to tell this. To tell you this without being a tool. Without sounding like an entire toolbox.


I don't really like Adam Sandler and never really have. Granted "some" of his movies where okay. I thought the one where he is a golf player is reasonable enjoyable, but many of the others I didn't like. I guess that Punch Drunk Love and Reign Over Me, both where good.

I saw Click. It's one of the best movies that I have ever seen. I don't know what it is about it, but I think it was inspiring. I know this is not something that goes in line with Adam Sandler, very well, but honestly if you see this for Blu-Ray, then pick it up.
I enjoyed this so much for some reason. I even had tears in my eyes at the end.


Adam Sandler is this unappreciating prick who is a Architect working for a big firm, working 24/7 to kiss his boss ass, so he can be partner. The cute little family of course gets mad, and then it rolls into crazy ways, when Christopher Walken comes out of nowhere... Anyway, you gotta see this. Buy this film.
On Blu-Ray, yes I think it's that good. Click.

 

[polyh3dron]

Oh, Junior.

Spoiler

He wakes up and realizes that the whole movie was a dream ffs!

Horrbile horrible movie that had me cursing at the screen when he woke up and the whole thing was a dream.

 

[xS1TH L0RDx]

went to best buy to take advantage of the great hd-dvd sale.

picked up:
the aviator
12 monkeys
jarhead
lucky number slevin
goodfellas

and i picked up 1 blu-ray, because of the great deal (19.99)
pirates 3

 

[Ripclawe]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/b...57200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

December 31, 2007
In the DVD War Over High Definition, Most Buyers Are Sitting It Out
By ERIC A. TAUB

What if nobody wins the high-definition DVD format wars? That increasingly looks to be the situation for the next-generation DVD technology, which is available to consumers in two incompatible formats.

A little more than 18 months after their introduction, the two systems — Blu-ray, developed by Sony, and HD DVD, from Toshiba — have sold around one million stand-alone players combined. Both sides promote their technologies, their movie studio allies and the growing list of movies available in the new formats.

Yet neither has a clear advantage, either in terms of technology, number of movies or, increasingly, the price of the equipment. According to data from Adams Media Research, 578,000 HD DVD and 370,000 Blu-ray machines will be sold by the end of this year.

The winner of the format wars could be determined by which company has the most content, in the same way the VHS-Betamax VCR war was decided. But both formats offer about 400 movies. Studios allied with the Blu-ray camp include Columbia, Disney, Fox, Lionsgate, Miramax, New Line and Sony.

In the HD DVD camp are DreamWorks, Paramount, Universal, the Weinstein Company, and several smaller TV and motion picture companies. Warner Brothers releases movies for both systems.

In November, Howard Stringer, the Sony chairman, publicly acknowledged that the formats were in a stalemate, and predicted that neither side would fold.

High-definition DVDs of both formats provide superior picture and sound quality compared with standard DVDs.

They also offer advanced interactive features like multiple camera angles, games, picture-in-picture commentaries and, in the case of HD DVD, a connection to the Internet to download more content.

But the visual and audio differences depend on the size of the TV screen used to display them.

“You start to enjoy the benefits of high-definition DVD at 40 inches and above,” said Chris Fawcett, vice president for product marketing at Sony Electronics’ home video group.

Only high-definition sets can display high-definition DVD images. And only the highest-resolution displays, the so-called 1080p HDTVs, for progressive scan, can show the images at their best. As a result, the potential customer base is limited. With a lower-resolution 720p set, “you are not as likely to see a dramatic a difference” between standard and high-definition DVDs, according to Andy Parsons, chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

The two camps are victims of their own earlier success with DVD. The standard DVDs offered a quantum leap in quality from the picture and sound of VHS videotape, and for many that was more than adequate.

In addition, DVD players that can convert images to near high-definition quality can be found for under $100, hundreds less than a true high-definition DVD player, further reducing the urgency to upgrade to one of the new formats.

“Today, an HDTV owner hooks up a standard DVD and it looks good,” said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD Strategic Marketing at Universal, and co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group. “Unless they experience the new format, they won’t understand it.”

Not many consumers are interested in even taking a look. According to research by NPD Group, only 11 percent of HDTV set owners strongly intend to buy a Blu-ray or HD DVD player by next spring. Almost three-quarters of those HDTV owners surveyed said that standard DVD was good enough for them.

“This may emerge as a premium, luxury item, not a successor to DVD,” said Ross Rubin, director for industry analysis at NPD.

Blu-ray and HD DVD proponents are doing what they can to change that attitude. And the best technique to pique interest is dropping the price. As with most things electronic, prices for both players have fallen drastically since their introduction.

HD DVD players, the vast majority of which are made by Toshiba, still have the price advantage. The company’s least-expensive model — which displays images in the lower-quality 1080i format — can be found for $200 or less in electronics store promotions or from online discounters.

Its least-expensive 1080p model is selling at Amazon for $250. But it is a tit-for-tat war. A Blu-ray 1080p unit from Samsung is just $30 more at Costco. Blu-ray units are also made by Panasonic, Philips, Sony and others.

Several holiday promotions had players in either version selling for as low as $200.

In an effort to finesse the format war, LG sells a combination unit that plays both formats; however, its $1,000 price has prompted only a few thousand consumers to buy.

As prices drop, high-definition DVD drives will find their way into other devices. Mr. Graffeo predicts that by the end of next year, 5 million notebook computers will be sold with HD DVD drives.

Sony says that 3.4 million Blu-ray disc drives are also in PlayStation 3 machines, giving it a numerical advantage. But the rival camp points out that gamers are not buying the PS3 to watch movies, and in any case, 300,000 HD DVD add-on drives will have been purchased to use with the Xbox 360 game console from Microsoft.

The 400 movies available in each format are a fraction of the 90,000 movies and TV programs that the video rental company Netflix offers. Increasingly, high-definition DVDs are being issued simultaneously with the standard definition DVD release.

Consumers are usually advised to wait until a clear winner emerges. But if there is a deciding factor, it might be which format has the more compelling movies. Good animation looks three-dimensional in high definition, so Sony is hoping to gain an advantage by providing Blu-ray formats of “Ratatouille,” the Disney/Pixar film about a cute French rat who cooks, and blockbusters like “Spider-Man 3.”

As an indication of their owners’ enthusiasm, Blu-ray users are buying twice as many discs as their HD DVD counterparts, according to Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research.

Discs can be rented at the Blockbuster and Netflix online stores. Of Blockbuster’s 5,000 physical stores, 250 offer both high-definition DVD formats, while 1,450 rent only Blu-ray; the rest offer none. The company emphasizes Blu-ray because 70 percent of its rentals are for that format, said Karen Raskopf, a Blockbuster spokeswoman.

The HD DVD camp is playing up its new interactive features, believing that the next generation of viewers wants to combine TV viewing with video games.

In Universal’s just-released HD DVD of “The Bourne Ultimatum,” viewers can play a game that tests their memories, and then upload their results using a broadband connection to a Web site and compare their scores with others.

Viewers can also find character dossiers, watch “Webisodes” with the Volkswagen Touareg sport utility vehicle featured in the film, and create playlists of their favorite scenes and share them with friends.

Those features will do little to increase sales, said Richard Doherty, an analyst with the Envisioneering Group. The market consultants’ surveys show that just 3 percent of consumers want interactivity, he said.

As more consumers buy HDTVs, and the price of dual format players drop, an uneasy truce may descend. With the studios in the United States collectively making $16.5 billion in worldwide video sales, according to Mr. Adams, companies will be loath to miss an opportunity to make money by allying themselves with one high-definition DVD format over the other. And then, the once-unthinkable could happen.

“When high-definition DVD reaches its tipping point, studios will have to release their movies in both HD DVD and Blu-ray,” Mr. Adams said. “No studio will be able to afford not to.”

 

[djkimothy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/b...57200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

I pretty much tell my friends to stay out of HD media altogether since it's just a mess right now with all the uncertainty. The only reason I buy Blu-ray discs is cause I own a PS3. There really is no other reason to join in the fray. :/

 

[msdstc]

Oh, Junior.

Spoiler

He wakes up and realizes that the whole movie was a dream ffs!

Horrbile horrible movie that had me cursing at the screen when he woke up and the whole thing was a dream.

Cmon we all knew it was coming anyways. It's a wonder life! I'm sure you've seen that. Anyways I heard that blu-ray sucked some serious ass in terms of quality, movies been out for a long time anyway.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

<---Omg! hypocrite alert! Blu-ray supporter owns HD-DVD player: :O

I was thinking about buying the LG drive, but my pc isn't souped up enough. I was looking at and considering buying a upconverting dvd player, but then I saw the A3 for 80 bucks more. I took the plunge, I'm now a A3 owner(my HDTV is 1080i, and it wont be upgraded for a good while) with 10 free HDDVD's. I plan on using netflix and not buying a HD library until there is a format winner. Hopefully it's sooner rather than later (which would be blu-ray). I guess since I wont be buying any HD DVD's, I wont be helping their market share, so I'm not too much of a hypocrite? I plan on getting a PS3 eventually in early to mid 2008after more exclusive games release.. So, it all works out well for me. Also, I'm cancelling my premium movie channels on digital cable, so that saves me 30 bucks a month. I hardly ever find any damn movies on it.

My player, cheap monoprice hdmi cable, and three netflix movies: Serenity, Black Snake Moan, Smokey and the Bandit all arrive January 3rd. Then I'll mail those back for Stardust, The Jerk, and License to Wed(My dad's a loser). After that, 110 movies are in queue so far, and more to add.

I advise anyone waiting to go A3+Netflix if you have no upconverting dvd player. Not a big loss if the format loses.

 

[Chiggs]

In response to the question on the previous page...

If Warner goes Blu, I will be happy and will continue to buy Blu-ray's every week.

If Warner goes HD-DVD, I will sell every Blu-ray I own and sit out of the whole thing. I will also tell friends and family to stay far, far away.

Honestly, Warner going HD-DVD exclusive is just so unfathomable to me, that if it happens, my meltdown in this thread will be pretty bad. It would probably be the worst thing to ever happen to HDM, though I know you Red guys probably don't see it that way.

 

[BoboBrazil]

I would also stop buying movies. I might buy a hd-dvd player as well, but all I would do is rent.

 

[fistfulofmetal]

I can't find any screen caps on AVS of Blade Runner, are there any?

Also:
Today I found the old old old Directors Cut from 1997 in my house and watched it. I wanted to wait until I got it on BD, but I couldn't and just watched it.
I'm wondering, are the differences between the Directors Cut and the Final Cut major?

edit: Also also:
So this version right here comes with 5 discs? I mean, they aren't talking about the DVD? There's 5 Blu-ray discs in this?

 

[markom58]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/b...57200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

Sony says that 3.4 million Blu-ray disc drives are also in PlayStation 3 machines, giving it a numerical advantage. But the rival camp points out that gamers are not buying the PS3 to watch movies, and in any case, 300,000 HD DVD add-on drives will have been purchased to use with the Xbox 360 game console from Microsoft.

Always wondered how many add ons were sold, 300k.

 

[bill0527]

In response to the question on the previous page...

If Warner goes Blu, I will be happy and will continue to buy Blu-ray's every week.

If Warner goes HD-DVD, I will sell every Blu-ray I own and sit out of the whole thing. I will also tell friends and family to stay far, far away.

Honestly, Warner going HD-DVD exclusive is just so unfathomable to me, that if it happens, my meltdown in this thread will be pretty bad. It would probably be the worst thing to ever happen to HDM, though I know you Red guys probably don't see it that way.

This is what I did when Paramount went neutral last summer, sans selling all my Blu-Ray discs. I decided that I wasn't purchasing any more movies until this is over, or every studio goes neutral. I almost bought a standalone BRD player for the HDTV in the bedroom when they were $299, especially with all the free movie deals going, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. At least with the PS3 on my main TV, I know I've got a game system to fall back on.

This whole thing really sucks. I'd run out and buy a HD-DVD player tomorrow if they won the format war. I own about 10 BRD movies, so I've made a minimal investment, but I'm not doing anymore. I just want it over, and I want it over now so I can finally enjoy building a High def collection of movies without worry. Another reason is that the sooner this is all over with, the sooner we'll be seeing all the big guns come out for hi-def like the Star Wars Trilogy, all of Spielberg's movies, etc. How can anyone not want that regardless of format?

 

[BoboBrazil]

I hate that Sony and Microsoft got involved and put these formats with game systems. The idiot game system fanboys are extending this war more than needed...

 

[The Main Event]

I told one of my friends to pick the cheaper solution (which I also did at the time I jumped into hi-def with my first HD DVD player). I ordered for him an A3 for $200 CAD.

When the time will come and Blu-ray players will be similarly priced (he doesn't want a PS3), then he'll get one.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I advise anyone waiting to go A3+Netflix if you have no upconverting dvd player. Not a big loss if the format loses.

Amen. This is the rental generation for me and lots of my friends anyway. Last gen I bought everything, and later realized that 90% of it isn't going to be watched more than once. I own about a dozen movies on HDM so far, last gen I bought at least sixty flicks in the first year of DVD. I'm flogging the hell out of Blockbuster.com (switched from Netflix to get two free in-store game rentals each month, they've dropped it to one but grandfathered me in), and loving it.

 

[Warm Machine]

This war won't end in a stalemate. People actually WANT HD movies on a disk. Unlike DVD-A and SACD where the difference in quality as an upgrade from CDs is slim unless heard on very expensive speakers. That and the Ipod era is essentially killing disc based music.

DD is a possibility but the infastructure for the home is an incredibly hard sell. You have all kinds of ways it can go but will likely end in a device that hooks up to a TV and plugged into the net to download movies on. PCs in living rooms isn't an option for most people and cable companies are notoriously assholian to do any deals with. Someone has to build a box and sell it, and when one company does it another will join and you'll get a lovely DD format war akin to Sirius and XM.

 

[Days like these...]

If Warner goes Blu, I will be happy and will continue to buy Blu-ray's every week.

If Warner goes HD-DVD, I will sell every Blu-ray I own and sit out of the whole thing. I will also tell friends and family to stay far, far away.

I don't understand this line of thinking. It reminds me of child saying If I can't have (insert item) I don't want anything. So you'd sit the whole thing out? You'd prefer no HDM to HD DVD winning? I never pegged you as one of those guys who eats, sleeps, breathes and lives Blu ray that spot is held exclusively by ookie.

As for me I own about 30 HD DVDs havent counted recently. So if WB goes Blu ray I'll buy a dual format player as soon as 2.0 is available. It seems to me like some people cant see the forest for the trees. Don't let the format war affect your enjoyment for hi def movies.

 

[Ponn]

I don't understand this line of thinking. It reminds me of child saying If I can't have (insert item) I don't want anything. So you'd sit the whole thing out? You'd prefer no HDM to HD DVD winning? I never pegged you as one of those guys who eats, sleeps, breathes and lives Blu ray that spot is held exclusively by ookie.

As for me I own about 30 HD DVDs havent counted recently. So if WB goes Blu ray I'll buy a dual format player as soon as 2.0 is available. It seems to me like some people cant see the forest for the trees. Don't let the format war affect your enjoyment for hi def movies.

It will be frustrating. I don't think alot of people get that this "war" would be almost impossible to end in HD-DVD's favor. Sony is a movie studio. They have alot of movies along with Fox. With PS3's still selling out on the market they are not going to just stop making Blu-ray and make HD-DVD's.

It's also not as simple as just accepting two formats. As cited over and over people don't want it and its holding people off from buying either format. Which effects sales which effects studio support and in turn effects them spending time on putting movies we want on either format. Two years in and we haven't heard anything on titles like LoTR, Star Wars, Jurassic Park, etc except for "we are waiting".

This whole thing cannot be simply broken down to "fanboyism". Sure there are, but you can't pin that on everything and say just be neutral. It's not that easy.

 

[Shepherd]

Question to the regulars in this thread:

If Warner Bros. sides with the opposite of your format of choice. What would you do?

Ive just been reading all the rumors and reports flying around today and have noticed some people at BD.com and HDD that said they would stop buying HD movies altogether.:lol

Just wondering what the GAF view is.

I am neutral so it doesnt bother me in the least.

I would buy a PS3 and start buying Blu-Ray movies.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

I own the 360 add on now and 13 HD DVDs. If WB went BLU exclusive I think I'd just get a PS3 or wait and get a stand alone when they are under 200. I like HD movies to much to ignore and it seems almost all of my movies are WB movies.

 

[mrklaw]

if that MS DD stuff is true, then they are really retarded. Movie Studios want DD as an option. But more importantly they want to control their content. I can't see any studio going with a single platform exclusivity unless there are moneyhats involved and they don't care about actual DD revenue.

ipod/itunes is too big to ignore, so you'll never sign up exclusively to a microsoft service. However, even though itunes is massive, studios won't want to sign up to exclusivity to them either - they want to keep the control with the content themselves, and make it available to many people.

realistically that means that any studios serious about DD will want to make their content available on itunes + WM-DRM based stores.

Of course, individual business requirements might prevent some of that (eg flexible pricing on itunes, no rental model yet), but I think the general point is right.

 

[Forsete]

I pretty much tell my friends to stay out of HD media altogether since it's just a mess right now with all the uncertainty. The only reason I buy Blu-ray discs is cause I own a PS3. There really is no other reason to join in the fray. :/

Yeah, most people I know dont want to jump in as it is now. Pity for them and the movie studios.

 

[TheJesusFactor]

I don't understand why some of you have such loyalty. I'm a HD DVD owner, but if Warner decides to go BR exclusive, I have absolutely no problem switching sides. I naturally prefer HD DVD, so I hope they go HD exclusive, but in the end, I don't care. Wherever Warner goes I will go. I believe Warner's decision will decide the outcome of the format war. Some of you that say Warner going HD DVD will only stalemate the situation, that is all BS. Right now, the numbers are so little and confidence in HDM is so low that it doesn't matter. It's already at a stalemate, as admitted already by a Sony Officer. Warner decision will drive confidence into the outcome of the format war and the press will eat it up. Then, 10x more HDM will be sold due to higher public confidence and a winner will emerge. Warner has the power to decide the fate of the HDM war. Everyone should just be happy switching to whichever side wins. No need to deny yourself HD movies to protest the outcome.

 

[VanMardigan]

If WB goes red, only a Sony moneyhat (a bigger one actually) will keep Fox/Disney exclusive to Blu Ray. And if Sony can't do that, then we have HD DVD as the successor. If Sony moneyhats as well, then we have a dual format future. This war could've been resolved by now if MS/Toshiba and Sony had done one of three things

Toshiba/Sony: Stop being so damn greedy and settled on one format.

Sony: Back off from the arrogant 1080p stance and provided a 720p/1080i player at $199 and below to counteract the Toshiba standalone lead. That would've probably pushed software ratios closer to 80/20 and gotten a big push from the casual Kmart/Walmart crowd. It doesn't help when idiots from the BDA are on the articles talking about needing 1080p tvs at greater than 40 inches to see any damn difference. That's just retarded way of marketing your product.

MS: Included the HD DVD drive internally with their Xbox 360, though I guess this technically belongs under Toshiba, who would be doing the subsidizing to maintain 360's price advantage over ps3.

 

[Shoho]

Oh, Junior.

Spoiler

He wakes up and realizes that the whole movie was a dream ffs!

Horrbile horrible movie that had me cursing at the screen when he woke up and the whole thing was a dream.

I heard that the movie was alot like A Wonderful Life. But that movie is so old. I dont know if I would enjoy that. I heard it was kinda sappy, but others say its the most inspirational movie ever.

The only movie I enjoyed that was older was probably Casablanca.

 

[polyh3dron]

If WB goes red, only a Sony moneyhat (a bigger one actually) will keep Fox/Disney exclusive to Blu Ray.

It would take better copy protection that is not possible given HD DVD's already set in stone spec for Fox to go red and it would take region coding which is also not possible on HD DVD now for the same reason for Disney to go red.

 

[polyh3dron]

I heard that the movie was alot like A Wonderful Life.

Frank Capra is cursing you from the grave. Cursing you. From the grave.

 

[MechDX]

It would take better copy protection that is not possible given HD DVD's already set in stone spec for Fox to go red and it would take region coding which is also not possible on HD DVD now for the same reason for Disney to go red.

Yeah because we know BD's copyright protection is so awesome. BTW, it was broke within its first week.:lol

 

[polyh3dron]

Yeah because we know BD's copyright protection is so awesome. BTW, it was broke within its first week.:lol

It was broke for one or two titles that were the initial BD+ releases (Day After Tomorrow and Silver Surfer). They were celebrating their victory on that a little prematurely, because that crack only worked for those 2 titles.

 

[Shoho]

Frank Capra is cursing you from the grave. Cursing you. From the grave.

its not me. its wikipedia. they have a hole section dedicated to similiarities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_(film)



frank capra? was he not that suicidal depression guy from italy?

 

[VanMardigan]

It would take better copy protection that is not possible given HD DVD's already set in stone spec for Fox to go red and it would take region coding which is also not possible on HD DVD now for the same reason for Disney to go red.

Those reasons are as transparent as the reasons Paramount gave for going red. I love how you question absolutely everything HD DVD companies say and their hidden agendas and yet take the BDA companies at their word.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Sorta like you believe everything Amir has said over the last year.

Hey TheJesusFactor, who are you talking to re: loyalists? I see only one person in the whole string of responses who fits that description.

 

[VanMardigan]

Sorta like you believe everything Amir has said over the last year.

Your attack was too general, can you specify what I took Amir's word for that fell against the common perception?

 

[TheJesusFactor]

It was broke for one or two titles that were the initial BD+ releases (Day After Tomorrow and Silver Surfer). They were celebrating their victory on that a little prematurely, because that crack only worked for those 2 titles.

5 years from now when Media servers start popping up, your going to hate not being able to transfer your DRM BR movies to the server. It might even root key your media server.

Hey TheJesusFactor, who are you talking to re: loyalists? I see only one person in the whole string of responses who fits that description.

No one specific, just a general statement.

 

[Smidget]

BD+ is playable with a certain version of PowerDVD and a fully ripped copy of the disc. There are no possible encodes though, but Slysoft is working on that with their AnyDVD HD software.

Not that I would know anything about any of that

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Your attack was too general, can you specify what I took Amir's word for that fell against the common perception?

OK, how about the fact that you are absoultely convinced that MS had nothing at all to do with the Paramount deal, even though all that was officially said was that no money changed hands between Paramount and MS. The "nothing at all" isn't a strawman, either, it's a paraphrase of your last few comments on the matter.

TheJesusFactor: I suggest you read people's replies a little more closely. I see only loyalty to the idea of supporting one format, not loyalty to a format, with one rather egreous (and already called-out) exception.

 

[Ponn]

5 years from now when Media servers start popping up, your going to hate not being able to transfer your DRM BR movies to the server. It might even root key your media server.

I will get right on that. Making you a postcard right now.

"Dear TheJesusFactor -

Well, it's 5 years in the future and i'm crying myself to sleep right now as I write you this. I am so saddened that I cannot rip my entire Blu-ray collection to huge fucking data files and transfer them over my high speed Wireless Z network between my multiple 1080p TV's (cause i'm filthy rich now). I know I could have just bought another Blu-ray player since they are $50 bucks now but I was just so caught up on your thinly veiled allusion to HD-DVD's copy management I could not bear it.

BFF! Ponn01

PS - tell the police i'm down the hall in the bathroom. Taking a dump."

 

[VanMardigan]

OK, how about the fact that you are absoultely convinced that MS had nothing at all to do with the Paramount deal, even though all that was officially said was that no money changed hands between Paramount and MS. The "nothing at all" isn't a strawman, either, it's a paraphrase of your last few comments on the matter.

So, if no money was exchanged, what was their involvement? What I was debating is that MS DID NOT PAY Paramount. MS agreed to work with Paramount on the encodes, which is an offer Para has mostly turned down, since I don't think any of their recent stuff has been VC1.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm not saying there was, or that anyone knows for sure-- it's your adamant position and belief of the party line, coupled with you saying that they weren't involved in any way at all that makes my statement true.

People yesterday were speculating that perhaps some DD deal was involved along with the Paramount HD-DVD deal, and you were quick to jump in with Amir's position (MS not involved whatsoever) and not even the public statement (no money changed hands).

Point is, you are quick to believe MS (Amir especially) and be critical of BD companies, yet you just accused somebody of doing the same thing in reverse. Either you're a skeptic or you're not, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I don't understand why some of you have such loyalty

It's not loyalty it's investment. Personally I dipped my toe into this format war buy buying a PS3 and a very select few amount of titles, renting the rest. I took a risk by going into this mess in the first place because I thought it would be over relatively soon (back when Universal was the only major HD DVD studio). Now if HD DVD gains Warner then it will seem very unlikely that the format war will end amicably any time soon.

A lot of people just do not want to invest in a dual format. I've stated this many times and I will continue to do so until people understand that there are some of us who would eventually like to watch all of their movies anywhere in the house (and eventually everywhere else with portable players & laptops). This will just not be as effective if you need to buy either two players or expensive dual formats. Maybe when the dual format players drop to $100 and studios are still releasing a healthy amount of titles then I will join up again, but if the war continues I just don't see it being a good thing for anyone. Sure there's a price war going on but studios are just not making money on HDM and if that continues then don't expect the titles (especially smaller and catalog titles) to keep coming.

And what has blu done again to deserve to win? It is the 3 different specs? Is it the high priced standalone players? Is it the players that need mulitple firmware updates? Hd-dvd also has not done enough to deserve to win.

I still stand by wanting warner to stay neutral to force both sides to get off their asses and fix issues so we can have a real successor to DVD. I am sorry the average joe is not going to pay 20x the price for a player and 2x the cost of movies for PQ/SQ. When one format has 99 dollar bullet proof players and a max of 24.99 on new release movies then we can talk about one side winning.

Just about all the issues you mentioned are par for the course for ANY piece of electronic equipment and media. It's also very picky. Both formats are very capable of delivering High Quality 1080p movies. Features like a little man talking on the corner of your screen or having the ability to pause someone's movie 1000 miles away is minor compared to what people want: the highest quality pq/aq of their favorite movies.

 

[VanMardigan]

I have my reasons, as you can see below. So it's not just Amir. The new "rumor" is that WB is being offered a deal and MS is involved this time. I'm not denying that, but the push to retroactively assume that Para was offered a similar deal, yeah, I'm opposed to that with what we currently know:

Bill Hunt:

On the HD-DVD front, Toshiba has successfully paid both DreamWorks Animation and Paramount to drop Blu-ray and release titles only on HD-DVD.

And remember how gung ho he was about blaming MS for making the payment.

Kevin Collins: We didn't pay Paramount.

Amir (at the time the big MS official in charge of HD DVD):

Yes, I am denying that too. We didn't pay them. We didn't pay anyone else to pay them. We didn't give them $50M worth of MS software either. Nor did we pave their parking lot for them for free. We didn't buy an apartment for their execs in Paris. Or pay to have a pool put in their house for free. Or send their kids to college. Or give them free employment at Microsoft. Anything else I missed?

Come on people. Don't you know that I anticipate folks being smart enough to ask me about every possibility before I made the first statement? I am confident of our stance and ethical conduct here or I would not risk my job under my real name to state such defentive answers.

For others coming to my defence, it is much appreciated.

If any new information comes along, not a bluray.com rumor, then I'll definitely adjust my position. Otherwise, the overwhelming feeling now (including BD folks) is that Toshiba handled the Paramount deal. It's not the company line.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Nevermind, Van, I was just making a point that you are just as lopsidely skeptical as the person you were replying to. I don't think you can even see that. You keep equating Paramount's paper-thin PR with *all* the Blu-exclusive companies that actually *might* have had a business reason to pick a side other than a payout. Not saying they aren't incentivized, but you act like their reasons aren't real. Of course, that's the only way to make the case that they'll flip to HD-DVD if WB goes, which is the FUD O' The Day.

 

[VanMardigan]

Not saying they aren't incentivized, but you act like their reasons aren't real.

The reasons are real, and definitely less incentive based than Paramount's move. I understand that, and that's also why I feel they would be more inclined to re-consider and go neutral. They're not as tied to BD as Paramount is to HD DVD, and a WB move is huge, you have to admit.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

A WB move would be huge, but I don't see how that would make the others change their minds about teh format they've chosen. Disney, because of the very public support of the format and region coding, and Fox for the copy protection. Fox is far more likely, but given how they handled both BD so far *and* DVD, I doubt thay'll make any move at in any kind of hurry.

By the way, now that you're neutral, why do you even care? You were saying a two-format future was fine with you, but why would you mind a one-format future?