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[polyh3dron]

Almost turned purple today but BB were out of stock of the $299 Sony BRs. I was gonna try for the 40gb PS3 but a friend disuaded me from it saying that stand alones are a lot better. Is that true?

Your friend is a PS3 hater and is incompetent to boot.

That couldn't be more false. No standalone plays BDs as well as the PS3 does at the moment. The only drawback is that it doesn't have 5.1 analog audio outs so the only way you can enjoy lossless audio with it is to have an HDMI receiver that'll take the 5-7.1 PCM from the HDMI connection.

 

[Forsete]

So based on the sales thus far (53-0 to BD something?) and Warners comments in the past (wanting to see how the sales figures pan out over the holidays), the likelihood of W jumping to HD-DVD should be nill. That and the rumour from Lionsgate (?) and not a self-proclamed insidur on any forum.
And CES would be a good place for Warner to announce future support?

So I'll make sure to watch AVS like a hawk next week.

Nope. Your friend is an eeeediot.

The PS3 is currently the best, and most future proof, of ALL blu-ray players...especially now that it is profile 1.1 compliant.

Dont forget that Sony already said its a BD Live aka. Profile 2.0 player.

 

[VanMardigan]

These 4 companies (and Paramount) are pretty much the only companies that actually care about the format - why don't they just drop it and end this shit now.

Fantastic idea. Let me fax this over to Toshiba HQ right now. Not sure why anyone didn't come up with this simple solution to end this costly war.

 

[theBishop]

I'm just trying to clarify Snah's position. He says that the smart thing for the studios is to want a single video-platform future. I agree FYI.

He also says that the smart thing for game publishers is to want a single game platform future.

However, he feels that it is smart for movie studios to try to influence the future of the industry, and dumb for game publishers to try to influence the future of their industry.

I find it interesting. That is all.

Video games aren't based on a standard platform. You can't take your Xbox360 game and pop it into your laptop or car or home theater, etc. There's no expectation that this is the case, and therefore having multiple consoles doesn't instill customers with the fear backing the "correct" one.

According to an NPD Survey, over 50% of consumers are waiting for the format war to end before upgrading from DVD.

In the short term, BR exclusive studios might make a little more by going neutral. But that move will also ensure that sales never reach DVD levels, destroying a huge revenue stream in the long term.

 

[Forsete]

In the short term, BR exclusive studios might make a little more by going neutral.

Wouldnt that be even more true for HD-DVD exclusive studios?

 

[Kleegamefan]

So based on the sales thus far (53-0 to BD something?) and Warners comments in the past (wanting to see how the sales figures pan out over the holidays), the likelihood of W jumping to HD-DVD should be nill. That and the rumour from Lionsgate (?) and not a self-proclamed insidur on any forum.
And CES would be a good place for Warner to announce future support?

So I'll make sure to watch AVS like a hawk next week.



Dont forget that Sony already said its a BD Live aka. Profile 2.0 player.

If Microsoft is involved in talks with Warner,the chances of W jumping to HD-DVD jumped up to 70-30 IMO...

The way I see it, they will bankroll whatever it takes to cockblock Blu Ray.....Warner and Paramount money hats are just the beginning, but thats just speculation by me

 

[Snah]

Wouldnt that be even more true for HD-DVD exclusive studios?

Of course. There's certainly more incentive from that camp.

 

[Forsete]

If Microsoft is involved in talks with Warner,the chances of W jumping to HD-DVD jumped up to 70-30 IMO...

The way I see it, they will bankroll whatever it takes to cockblock Blu Ray.....Warner and Paramount money hats are just the beginning, but thats just speculation by me

Yes but Microsoft does not get involved, remember?

If it comes to a bidding war, I'm sure the BDA could cough up a whole lot because they have the taste of blood already (and Sony just loves them formats!).

 

[lupin23rd]

If Microsoft ISN'T involved, the chances are probably 100-0 that they go BD exclusive, so I don't think you can read much into them being involved.

 

[bishoptl]

Well this thread's gone to hell again. Who came back from a ban??


Oh.

Leave Kolgar alone.

 

[avaya]

Penton Man said Microsoft's involvement in the transfer of Benjamin's at the moment hinges on whether Time-Warner will sign an exclusivity agreement for DD for services like Live and whatever else Redmond have planned in future.

Looking at it that way, Paramount cost $150mn + 500mn = $650mn. Without Spielberg.

Warner has a library that dwarfs Paramount and then some. At least double the size. We're looking at a $1bn payment at the very least for the same sort of agreements to be written down. Then again I could be talking out of my ass.

 

[markom58]

Your friend is a PS3 hater and is incompetent to boot.

That couldn't be more false. No standalone plays BDs as well as the PS3 does at the moment. The only drawback is that it doesn't have 5.1 analog audio outs so the only way you can enjoy lossless audio with it is to have an HDMI receiver that'll take the 5-7.1 PCM from the HDMI connection.

I doubt he hates Sony or PS3. When I asked that I wanted a bluray, he immediately said get a Sony BR, can't go wrong with that. All his electronics stuff is Sony as well. He may not be as well informed with the PS3 though so that maybe it. He said something to the effect that PS3 does decoding or whatever through software while the stand alones do it through hardware (the prefered method, same with the 360 HD DVD add on).

I love playing games and watching movies but I am not to technical so I rely on him for advice :lol Oh well I just need to do a little more homework but I'm pretty sure either through stand alone or PS3 I will be purple soon

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I doubt he hates Sony or PS3. When I asked that I wanted a bluray, he immediately said get a Sony BR, can't go wrong with that. All his electronics stuff is Sony as well. He may not be as well informed with the PS3 though so that maybe it. He said something to the effect that PS3 does decoding or whatever through software while the stand alones do it through hardware (the prefered method, same with the 360 HD DVD add on).

I love playing games and watching movies but I am not to technical so I rely on him for advice :lol Oh well I just need to do a little more homework but I'm pretty sure either through stand alone or PS3 I will be purple soon

i believe he was referring to the audio being decoded.

 

[Argyle]

I doubt he hates Sony or PS3. When I asked that I wanted a bluray, he immediately said get a Sony BR, can't go wrong with that. All his electronics stuff is Sony as well. He may not be as well informed with the PS3 though so that maybe it. He said something to the effect that PS3 does decoding or whatever through software while the stand alones do it through hardware (the prefered method, same with the 360 HD DVD add on).

I love playing games and watching movies but I am not to technical so I rely on him for advice :lol Oh well I just need to do a little more homework but I'm pretty sure either through stand alone or PS3 I will be purple soon

It makes no difference if the decoding is done in "software" vs "hardware" since the end result is the same - so not sure why you'd prefer "hardware" decoding (and the 360 will be a "software" decoder - just like the PS3).

Pretty much the only downsides on getting a PS3 for Blu-ray are the lack of analog audio outputs, the fact that it currently won't pass or decode DTS-MA (but will decode the DTS core from it) and the general lack of an IR remote (if you use a universal remote). If you are going to play games on it too, it's a no-brainer.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

i went purple a while ago, and aint no br player than the ps3. the only limitations it has for the videophile/audiophile is dts hd ma decoding (prolly coming), no bitstream (minimal if it gets the decoders), no analog outs, and no ir sensor for universal remotes.

but the ps3 is the best player (dvd, hd dvd, and bd included) on the planet. its easily upgraded, is the most feature complete, and its plays games

 

[Nicodimas]

but the ps3 is the best player (dvd, hd dvd, and bd included) on the planet.

The ps3 can play hd-dvds now?


-Just a annoying coment.

 

[lupin23rd]

New RUMOR today: Toshiba, MS, Warner Bros and Universal had a private meeting yesterday. I cant wait till next Sunday when hopefully at least some of this mess will be more clear.

Dont even get me started on penton man. Guy comes off as a pedophile to me.

Hey MechDX, where did this rumor start up? I never see where some of these things pop up from (like the Famitsu news leak threads on the gaming side) and didn't see anything on AVS or HDD.

 

[AlteredBeast]

his butt?

 

[markom58]

It makes no difference if the decoding is done in "software" vs "hardware" since the end result is the same - so not sure why you'd prefer "hardware" decoding (and the 360 will be a "software" decoder - just like the PS3).

Pretty much the only downsides on getting a PS3 for Blu-ray are the lack of analog audio outputs, the fact that it currently won't pass or decode DTS-MA (but will decode the DTS core from it) and the general lack of an IR remote (if you use a universal remote). If you are going to play games on it too, it's a no-brainer.

My earlier post was not to clear, by same as the 360 add-on, I meant the 360 add on decodes through software as well.

 

[VanMardigan]

Leave Kolgar alone.

Oh alright, but he's driving this thread down the tubes with his arrogant and FUD filled posts.

Spoiler

just following your lead

So, did penton man mention that MS is getting involved in this now? They weren't a part of the Paramount deal, but I could see them making a move here since this would be far more critical. On the other hand, wouldn't it cost just about the same in the long run to just include an HD DVD drive standard in the Xbox 360? The results would be devastating to Blu Ray. Toshiba and MS, imo, would be better off spending that money there, since they've yet to nullify the Ps3 advantage.

 

[Tag]

Just searched 50 stores for the Ocean's HD-DVD set. Guess I'll have to order it online since I can't find the damn thing anywhere. Best buy had Anchorman, Old School, and Blades of Glory for $50. Couldn't resist since I wanted Anchorman anyway. Felt dirty doing it, but also grabbed Superbad on BR. Now if my damn Bourne set and Blade Runner would arrive from Amazon.


p.s. Warner should go HD-DVD exclusive

 

[C.Dark.DN]

p.s. Warner should go HD-DVD exclusive

um, no?

 

[Tag]

um, no?

um, yes?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

um, yes?

Lol@you. As I said.. um, no? Nonfanboys live in a logical world where they want a fast winner. If hd-dvd gets warner exclusivity, they might eventually get to blu-rays winning margin, and then we'll be in the same place we are now atleast a year in the future just so your hd-dvd loving needs can be met with them as the format winner. In conclusion, HD-DVD exclusivity is completely an utterly illogical. Blu-ray exclusivity on the other had isn't because it means a faster end to the format war.

 

[Nicodimas]

Blu-ray exclusivity on the other had isn't because it means a faster end to the format war.

I really do not think Sony is really trying hard enough at this point to win. If this "Rumor" pans out and I was BR supporter I would be pissed at sony for fing this up.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I really do not think Sony is really trying hard enough at this point to win. If this "Rumor" pans out and I was BR supporter I would be pissed at sony for fing this up.

I heard rumors of Warner being BR exclusive, with meetings in early December? But, I haven't been following this war close cause I don't own either player. I found reason to buy both formats, but I don't want to yet.

 

[Tag]

Lol@you. As I said.. um, no? Nonfanboys live in a logical world where they want a fast winner. If hd-dvd gets warner exclusivity, they might eventually get to blu-rays winning margin, and then we'll be in the same place we are now atleast a year in the future just so your hd-dvd loving needs can be met with them as the format winner. In conclusion, HD-DVD exclusivity is completely an utterly illogical. Blu-ray exclusivity on the other had isn't because it means a faster end to the format war.

:lol

Sorry, the HD movie market is so niche right now that neither BR or HD-DVD is going anywhere. DVDs will continue to dominate and Warner's position isn't going to change that. Have fun waiting for a winner and missing out on movies that your platform doesn't have. Maybe you'll have a single HD format in 5 years when the masses stop buying 4:3 dvds and figure out how superior the HD formats are. In the meantime I would be totally happy with Warner being exclusive to my format of choice

Edit: I also think it is hilarious people are willing to spend so much on HD movies, but can't afford both players... right, fanboys. Who the fuck cares who wins 20 years from now. The movies are still going to work and look great.

I'm fucking retarded!

 

[Kastro]

Edit: I also think it is hilarious people are willing to spend so much on HD movies, but can't afford both players...

I have to agree.. I never understood that.

Not to mention they obviously bought a decent HDTV in the first place as well, which wasn't cheap.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

:lol

Sorry, the HD movie market is so niche right now that neither BR or HD-DVD is going anywhere. DVDs will continue to dominate and Warner's position isn't going to change that. Have fun waiting for a winner and missing out on movies that your platform doesn't have. Maybe you'll have a single HD format in 5 years when the masses stop buying 4:3 dvds and figure out how superior the HD formats are. In the meantime I would be totally happy with Warner being exclusive to my format of choice

Ever heard of digital distrubition? I'm not limited to DVD's on my HDTV. Oh, and that's the point exactly sir. Right now BR is at 62% with neither going anywhere. If HD-DVD gets Warner exclusivity, they could get to 62% eventually. Then we'll be at where we are now with neither going anywhere, in the future! However, Warner going to BR could push them to near 70%, getting us closer to an end.

 

[Snah]

:lol

Sorry, the HD movie market is so niche right now that neither BR or HD-DVD is going anywhere. DVDs will continue to dominate and Warner's position isn't going to change that. Have fun waiting for a winner and missing out on movies that your platform doesn't have. Maybe you'll have a single HD format in 5 years when the masses stop buying 4:3 dvds and figure out how superior the HD formats are. In the meantime I would be totally happy with Warner being exclusive to my format of choice

Edit: I also think it is hilarious people are willing to spend so much on HD movies, but can't afford both players... right, fanboys. Who the fuck cares who wins 20 years from now. The movies are still going to work and look great.

Wow yeah. who cares about getting more studio releases, higher adoption, less retailer and consumer headache.

what tremendous logic.

 

[bishoptl]

I'm fucking banned!

Well shit, he is. Prognostication for the epic win, Tag. Got next week's lotto picks?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Edit: I also think it is hilarious people are willing to spend so much on HD movies, but can't afford both players... right, fanboys. Who the fuck cares who wins 20 years from now. The movies are still going to work and look great.

Correct, but the players are not gonna keep working. I expect to have to replace the winning player a few times. I'm not gonna keep replacing the losing formats player buying used abused players periodically for the next 20,30 years. I'm also not going to rebuy the library that I invested too much money in.

I'm fucking retarded!

I must have touched a button right?:lol Very mature. :lol :lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm just trying to clarify Snah's position. He says that the smart thing for the studios is to want a single video-platform future. I agree FYI.

He also says that the smart thing for game publishers is to want a single game platform future.

However, he feels that it is smart for movie studios to try to influence the future of the industry, and dumb for game publishers to try to influence the future of their industry.

I find it interesting. That is all.

I won't speak for him, but it is foolish for game publishers to force a single platform because unlike movie formats, the format owner has far greater control over content, and that power has been abused in the past.

If consoles were as relatively open as movie formats, then absolutely yes game publishers ought to try to force a single format.

 

[Chiggs]

I really do not think Sony is really trying hard enough at this point to win. If this "Rumor" pans out and I was BR supporter I would be pissed at sony for fing this up.

That rumor came from a highly unreliable source.

 

[The Main Event]

Just watched Eastern Promises.

What an amazing transfer. Really wasn't expecting it (to be THAT good).

 

[Matrix]

Just watched Eastern Promises.

What an amazing transfer. Really wasn't expecting it (to be THAT good).

I originally watched it on dvd and loved the movie,bought it on hd-dvd and the transfer is amazing.The dvd looks so bad compared to it.

 

[quest]

Why should warner end the sony/toshiba war for them? How about sony/toshiba get off their asses and fix some of the issues and win that way. Sony wants to win well then get a full spec bullet proof player out there for around 200 dollars war over. Toshiba needs to improve the quality of its entry player and cut its MSRP to 149.99. If warner goes blu it is going to suck because it will give blu CEs even less insentive to get lower priced full spec ie 2.0 players out there. Whats it been almost 2 years and still no full spec blu players cheaper than 399. Both groups need to be less greedy on the fees so studios can get the MSRP of new releases 24.99 or less. The only good news if warner goes blu is I will get a cheap library of HD media when HD-DVD is on clearance. I hope you all like paying 30 bucks a movie because no war = no bogo or other great deals. Neither side has done enough to win yet. The only think ending this war will do is slow down the winner in addressing its major issues.

 

[oatmeal]

Walmart (Canada) has a 2 for 30 deal going on with some movies.

The selection is mostly crap, but I really struggled with a few.

I ended up picking up First Blood by itself, but Saw 1 and 2 were there...just sitting there for me. I have them all on DVD and couldn't justify just getting one or the other (wanted First Blood for sure after reading it had a great transfer...which it does).

 

[Fafalada]

while the stand alones do it through hardware (the prefered method

The only preferable thing about hardware decoding is that it's Cheaper for the manufacturer. It gains nothing for the consumer, unless the cost saving is passed on to them in some fashion.
The main negative is that it's not as upgradeable (or not at all) as software. Which means if some features are buggy or missing, you can be stuck with them for as long as you own the product.

 

[Black Deatha]

Why should warner end the sony/toshiba war for them? How about sony/toshiba get off their asses and fix some of the issues and win that way. Sony wants to win well then get a full spec bullet proof player out there for around 200 dollars war over. Toshiba needs to improve the quality of its entry player and cut its MSRP to 149.99. If warner goes blu it is going to suck because it will give blu CEs even less insentive to get lower priced full spec ie 2.0 players out there. Whats it been almost 2 years and still no full spec blu players cheaper than 399. Both groups need to be less greedy on the fees so studios can get the MSRP of new releases 24.99 or less. The only good news if warner goes blu is I will get a cheap library of HD media when HD-DVD is on clearance. I hope you all like paying 30 bucks a movie because no war = no bogo or other great deals. Neither side has done enough to win yet. The only think ending this war will do is slow down the winner in addressing its major issues.

So your thought is that if WB goes Blu Sony (because they are the only ones behind Blu remember) will just sit idle and not try and make there format better for everyone?

Your right about the need for better and cheaper hardware, and likely, if WB shifts to Blu, this will have some an impact on Blu's market share, and in time lower costs.

I don't see why you think prices wont go down on the movies though, DVD managed just fine.

 

[avaya]

Well shit, he is. Prognostication for the epic win, Tag. Got next week's lotto picks?

:lol :lol :lol

 

[quest]

So your thought is that if WB goes Blu Sony (because they are the only ones behind Blu remember) will just sit idle and not try and make there format better for everyone?

Your right about the need for better and cheaper hardware, and likely, if WB shifts to Blu, this will have some an impact on Blu's market share, and in time lower costs.

I don't see why you think prices wont go down on the movies though, DVD managed just fine.

They will go down but it will take much longer than it would if there is competition. If Blu player prices have been this slow to drop it will only get worse if they are the win in 2 weeks. And no I don't count the clearance sales of the 1.0 players. The Blu CEs will milk really high margins long as they can if they have the chance. Maybe one of the Blu CEs will announce with a affordable entry level 1.1 or 2.0 player during CES.

If one side had its shit together I would love to see the war end. But that is not the case and IMO competition will get both sides there faster.


I just think the best chance for lower prices on movies is if both sides are fighting for customers. If blu gets into trouble or wants to try and win sony could easily lower the MSRP of its discs forcing other blu studios to follow. I think the studios love the higher MSRP and will be reluctant to lower it. Either by sony doing it and having to follow suit or by toshiba/sony lowering fees to get there. If sony gets a quick victory neither will happen and it will mean higher movie prices for the forceable future.

 

[mrklaw]

I really hope digital downloads doesn't come out of left field and fuck this all up for everyone.

regardless of whether people think its the future, it certainly isn't the *now*. Not enough people have fast internet, downloading a movie isn't like downloading a 4MB mp3, you can't easily play it in the lounge.

packaged media just has too many advantages right now and I don't want people like microsoft fucking it all up just to push their agenda.

Sure, DD has its place. But it isn't in the lounge just yet.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I was playing around on newegg.com and found the LG GGC-H20LI drive that plays both formats. Blu-ray DVD-ROM: 6X HD DVD-ROM: 3X for $299.99.

I have a DVI to HDMI cable laying around where I could connect my desktop to my HDTV.

How good would the video look, & how good is the drive? Would you need a souped up pc? I have a single core and midrange gfx. I'm starting to consider this since that's two players for the price of one!

 

[nubbe]

A single core will not do for HD decoding. You will need a dual core at a minimum.
But you could get a new GPU like the 3850 or 2400 to get complete CPU offload.

I use my PC for HD playback and I think the image quality is quite excellent. It definitely blows DVD out of the water.
Another benefit of the PC is that it is 100% future proof.

 

[Suikoguy]

I was playing around on newegg.com and found the LG GGC-H20LI drive that plays both formats. Blu-ray DVD-ROM: 6X HD DVD-ROM: 3X for $299.99.

I have a DVI to HDMI cable laying around where I could connect my desktop to my HDTV.

How good would the video look, & how good is the drive? Would you need a souped up pc? I have a single core and midrange gfx. I'm starting to consider this since that's two players for the price of one!

The video will look as good as the software you have on your PC, you main concern is making sure you computer is fast enough to decode it.
I would not go this route, but I'm not sure what type of setup you have.

 

[VanMardigan]

packaged media just has too many advantages right now and I don't want people like microsoft fucking it all up just to push their agenda.

The current digital download king is in the Blu Ray camp, but all I ever hear about is how MS is the one with trying to eff this war up to make digital downloads "win" or some retarded crap. MS has just as much vested interest in this as Apple does. No, scratch that, they have more, because not only is their VC-1 standard more used on HD DVD, but so is their iHD implementation.

People point to Xbox Live marketplace and their HD movies as some sort of proof that MS isn't committed to HD DVD, while Apple gets a free pass, but I didn't see them drop Apple TV to spend more resources on Blu Ray. In fact, what is the extent of Apple's commitment to Blu Ray? The ONLY reason Apple hasn't made a huge dent yet in the video download arena is because they haven't gotten studios to bend to their will on the pricing, therefore limiting their selection. Blu Ray support helps them to make those studios (like Disney) happy, and while their focus right now is SD, you can bet your bottom dollar Apple is going to aggressively enter the HD movie download market as well. At which point, I hope these MS haters (also coincidentally Ps3 lovers) are able to make the same radical claims about Apple that they make about MS.

 

[Snah]

The current digital download king is in the Blu Ray camp, but all I ever hear about is how MS is the one with trying to eff this war up to make digital downloads "win" or some retarded crap. MS has just as much vested interest in this as Apple does. No, scratch that, they have more, because not only is their VC-1 standard more used on HD DVD, but so is their iHD implementation.

People point to Xbox Live marketplace and their HD movies as some sort of proof that MS isn't committed to HD DVD, while Apple gets a free pass, but I didn't see them drop Apple TV to spend more resources on Blu Ray. In fact, what is the extent of Apple's commitment to Blu Ray? The ONLY reason Apple hasn't made a huge dent yet in the video download arena is because they haven't gotten studios to bend to their will on the pricing, therefore limiting their selection. Blu Ray support helps them to make those studios (like Disney) happy, and while their focus right now is SD, you can bet your bottom dollar Apple is going to aggressively enter the HD movie download market as well. At which point, I hope these MS haters (also coincidentally Ps3 lovers) are able to make the same radical claims about Apple that they make about MS.

If Microsoft doesn't have much vested interest in this format war, why aren't they releasing a blu-ray add on for the Xbox 360?

I'm just wondering, honestly. If they released a blu-ray add on, for many folks that would be one less reason to buy a PS3 and would undercut one of the best reasons to purchase the console, though they would obviously have to 'concede' the format war to blu-ray. Apparently, they're unwilling to do that.

 

[VanMardigan]

If Microsoft doesn't have much vested interest in this format war, why aren't they releasing a blu-ray add on for the Xbox 360?

I was arguing that they DID have more of a vested interest in HD DVD succeeding than given credit for by those who see their entry as a way to slow HD disc adoption in favor of HD movie downloads. Thank you for helping my case, though, by pointing out yet another way in which MS has shown commitment to HD DVD.

 

[Snah]

I was arguing that they DID have more of a vested interest in HD DVD succeeding than given credit for by those who see their entry as a way to slow HD disc adoption in favor of HD movie downloads. Thank you for helping my case, though, by pointing out yet another way in which MS has shown commitment to HD DVD.

But it doesn't explain why they're in it for reasons other than muddling the war for DD.