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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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quest

Not Banned from OT
Riddick said:
So wrong. DVD had a good run for 10 and more years and the sales fall shows that even consumers want to shift to a better format more compatible with the current TV standards. And your DVD collection isn't useless because all Bluray players have a playback and upscale function for DVD.

No it means more people are using online rental services and are sick of paying 14.99-19.99 movies they might only watch once. You think people are going to spend 100s to replace all their DVD player with blu player and buy 30 dollar movies? If you do I got a bridge to sell you real cheap. Until players get dirt cheap including portable ones the average joe is not going to blu. If you go blu it only makes sense to go all the way or else you have to buy ever movie 2 times. The average person are not going to pay a premium to play movies on 1 player in the house. Unless BDA wants to include the DVD verion they are going to be a niche for the forseable future and beyond. The old days of a family just watching movies/tv in 1 room or even the house ended when DVD exploded. There are just to many people here with out a family and have no perspective. Many parents use DVDs as a modern babysitter weather it is in the kids room or in the car/minivan.
 

Vashu

Member
quest said:
No it means more people are using online rental services and are sick of paying 14.99-19.99 movies they might only watch once. You think people are going to spend 100s to replace all their DVD player with blu player and buy 30 dollar movies? If you do I got a bridge to sell you real cheap. Until players get dirt cheap including portable ones the average joe is not going to blu. If you go blu it only makes sense to go all the way or else you have to buy ever movie 2 times. The average person are not going to pay a premium to play movies on 1 player in the house. Unless BDA wants to include the DVD verion they are going to be a niche for the forseable future and beyond. The old days of a family just watching movies/tv in 1 room or even the house ended when DVD exploded. There are just to many people here with out a family and have no perspective. Many parents use DVDs as a modern babysitter weather it is in the kids room or in the car/minivan.

What does the weather have to do with all this? ;)

Anyway, I beg to differ. I work in the rental, and retail, section myself. If anything, there are still a lot more people who would much rather go out and rent or buy a movie they like just because downloading movies does not ensure the quality of said movie. For the past couple of years, many vocal parties have said that rental has been dealt a serious blow by the new downloading services, but it seems that even now people choose to have the solid quality that is a material disc.

That is, if the discs are in good condition of course.

We still don't have the bandwidth that could provide us with movies in 1080p format, with a Lossless/uncompressed audio quality and the amount of extra's that the HD-formats can give us on disc. There is a reason why both new formats had a larger amount of space compared to DVD. Also, I seriously believe that most people underestimate the amount of consumers that really like the extra features provided with movies. A good majority might not give a rat's ass, but I think the market is big enough.

And yes, a lot of people are waiting for the aftermath of said format-war, and with WB going blu, their choices became pretty much clear in an instant.
 

Riddick

Member
quest said:
No it means more people are using online rental services and are sick of paying 14.99-19.99 movies they might only watch once. You think people are going to spend 100s to replace all their DVD player with blu player and buy 30 dollar movies? If you do I got a bridge to sell you real cheap. Until players get dirt cheap including portable ones the average joe is not going to blu. If you go blu it only makes sense to go all the way or else you have to buy ever movie 2 times. The average person are not going to pay a premium to play movies on 1 player in the house. Unless BDA wants to include the DVD verion they are going to be a niche for the forseable future and beyond. The old days of a family just watching movies/tv in 1 room or even the house ended when DVD exploded. There are just to many people here with out a family and have no perspective. Many parents use DVDs as a modern babysitter weather it is in the kids room or in the car/minivan.

So it's just a coincidence that when HD formats started selling more DVDs sold less? I don't think so.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
only on page 514, catching up. but I hope Paramount had a 'if Warner goes bluray exclusive we can ditch this deal' clause in their contract.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
mrklaw said:
only on page 514, catching up. but I hope Paramount had a 'if Warner goes bluray exclusive we can ditch this deal' clause in their contract.

Any lawyer worth their paycheck would've made sure there's some kind of escape clause.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Vashu said:
What does the weather have to do with all this? ;)

Anyway, I beg to differ. I work in the rental, and retail, section myself. If anything, there are still a lot more people who would much rather go out and rent or buy a movie they like just because downloading movies does not ensure the quality of said movie. For the past couple of years, many vocal parties have said that rental has been dealt a serious blow by the new downloading services, but it seems that even now people choose to have the solid quality that is a material disc.

That is, if the discs are in good condition of course.

We still don't have the bandwidth that could provide us with movies in 1080p format, with a Lossless/uncompressed audio quality and the amount of extra's that the HD-formats can give us on disc. There is a reason why both new formats had a larger amount of space compared to DVD. Also, I seriously believe that most people underestimate the amount of consumers that really like the extra features provided with movies. A good majority might not give a rat's ass, but I think the market is big enough.

And yes, a lot of people are waiting for the aftermath of said format-war, and with WB going blu, their choices became pretty much clear in an instant.

When I am talking online I am talking netflix or block buster online. I know 10x more people who use those than own HDM players. Basically every person I know under 30 uses netflix or blockbuster online. I have no reason to rent at a store anymore just log on put movies in my que once a month and wait for the mail man.

Downloadable movies have the same problems as blu or more. The way DVD has changed viewing has really screwed over the next format trying to take over. Taking over for VHS was simple people did not have 4 VCRS in the home, one built into the car/minivan and a portable unit. The winner is asking people to replace many many players vs the 1 or 2 they gave up last time. It is just asking to much of the average person. Better SQ PQ is not going to get them to spend hundreds on new players and a premium in movies. It was not the PQ SQ of DVD that won the masses over it was the tangables no rewind, no degration every viewing and formfactor.
 

Brian Fellows

Pete Carroll Owns Me
Sweet! Batman Begins will be the first actual movie I buy on BRD. All I have right now is Incubus Alive At Red Rock and Spider-man 3 which sucks.
 
What advantages does HD-DVD actually have over blu-ray?

-Cost (it's cheaper)
-You can do dual DVD/HD-DVD discs

Anything else? It seems like otherwise blu-ray is clearly the superior technology. Am I wrong here? I want to buy a next-gen disc player soon and I'm confused about why HD-DVD seems to have so much support.
 

Timbuktu

Member
How many people in this thread also watched LaserDisc? I was one, just wondering if the HD formats are getting the same audience, that's all.
 

sinnergy

Member
Synth_floyd said:
What advantages does HD-DVD actually have over blu-ray?

-Cost (it's cheaper)
-You can do dual DVD/HD-DVD discs

Anything else? It seems like otherwise blu-ray is clearly the superior technology. Am I wrong here? I want to buy a next-gen disc player soon and I'm confused about why HD-DVD seems to have so much support.

Region free. (big plus for me, I import stuff from the USA)
PIP (from the start)
Popup HD-DVD menu while watching a movie, the menu doesn't stop the movie. You can change settings on the fly
Webcontent.

And a little cheaper at the stores.

Plusses of BD: uncompressed audio because of larger discs, more studio support.
 

sinnergy

Member
Synth_floyd said:
How about picture quality?

The same. My own experience and reviews

M3wThr33 said:
Actually, a lot of HD-DVDs were more expensive because they were combo discs.
And BD has the in-movie menus just the same.

I don't have any combo discs, so I wouldn't know if they were more expensive. Most HD-DVD's are not combi.
My early BD's don't have in-movie menu's, did they add that feature later?
 

Aaron

Member
M3wThr33 said:
Actually, a lot of HD-DVDs were more expensive because they were combo discs.
And BD has the in-movie menus just the same.
I don't know if this is everywhere, but a glance at Amazon shows plenty of BDs that cost just as much as the HD combo discs. Plus, the combos usually get single releases later on.
 

YYZ

Junior Member
Wow I never knew that format backers are as rabid as console backers, sometimes more rabid. The Sony hater in this thread with the terrible avatar is fucking hilarious too :lol

"I hate _________ corporation!!"
 

Vashu

Member
sinnergy said:
Region free. (big plus for me, I import stuff from the USA)
PIP (from the start)
Popup HD-DVD menu while watching a movie, the menu doesn't stop the movie. You can change settings on the fly
Webcontent.

And a little cheaper at the stores.

Plusses of BD: uncompressed audio because of larger discs, more studio support.

Blu-Ray got Java for that, and it looks sweet. I also believe the menu's were there from the start.

Region Free would've been awesome too, but then again, it is Sony, Fox, Philips and all the others that don't want that.

PIP is here now too, albeit a little late unfortunately.

Webcontent is coming too, and again, they kinda screwed that one up.

But the price of BD's and HD-DVD's are the same. At least here in The Netherlands. But, I' did pick up a few BRD movies for only 15 Euro's, so that point is kinda moot.

I agree that the BDA group is late with some valuable content, but I'd much rather have it without any problems (not saying HD-DVD has any that I know of) than rushed into the world with all sorts of backlashes. With WB fully on board, I'd say they can provide more and better content a lot faster.
 

Lionheart

Member
Senior member High_Def DVD just posted this, dunno if it's been posted yet:

Notice of CES Press Conference Cancellation by North American HD DVD Promotion Group

“Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
 

Mmmkay

Member
M3wThr33 said:
Honestly, I'm not surprised. They need time to rewrite some stuff..
They also said it would not be rescheduled. Evidently postponed is a synonym for cancelled in HD DVD land.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news...Promo_Group_Cancels_CES_Press_Conference/1331
A rep for the group told us this evening that the press conference will not be rescheduled, but that the group will still have a presence at the show from its booth on the convention floor.
 

B-Ri

Member
M3wThr33 said:
Well, at least they'll still have a presence on the show floor, so we can go by and laugh at them.

id give them a hug, i mean they are still showing up, its not going to be good days for them.
 

M3wThr33

Banned
B-Ri said:
id give them a hug, i mean they are still showing up, its not going to be good days for them.
I wonder if they can afford that floorspace now. It's probably too late for a refund and it's NEVER cheap for that stuff.
 

sinnergy

Member
Vashu said:
But the price of BD's and HD-DVD's are the same. At least here in The Netherlands. But, I' did pick up a few BRD movies for only 15 Euro's, so that point is kinda moot.

Yeah some Mediamarkts have bargains, but most of the time BD is more expensive (I know cos I buy both).

And if you are talking about DFW titles (Dutch Film Works) those are horrible content starved discs for both BD and HD-DVD, they even use dvd menu's on those discs. Those discs are indeed 15 euro.
 

Vashu

Member
sinnergy said:
Yeah some Mediamarkts have bargains, but most of the time BD is more expensive (I know cos I buy both).

And if you are talking about DFW titles (Dutch Film Works) those are horrible content starved discs for both BD and HD-DVD, they even use dvd menu's on those discs. Those discs are indeed 15 euro.

I agree with you that the first menu is somewhat dubious, but at least it gets the job done. The content is fine, and I can acces a smaller menu during the movie on the fly. No problems there.

But again, I haven't seen any BRD movies more expensive than HD-DVD movies here. You have got to stop saying nonsense. The prices are the same.
 
Well, it's only a matter of time before the rest of the studios tumble. On the bright side for cheapo bastards like me, the coming blowout sales will be spectacular. I'm still going to buy certain titles like Casablanca and Adventures of Robin Hood on HD DVD, as they sold terribly for Warner, and I doubt they're in any hurry to reissue those on Blu Ray any time soon (my guess is 2009, when the user base might support such titles). And for other, more mercenary reasons...

As I was saying to Mifune earlier in the thread, I wouldn't be so hasty to get rid of HD DVDs if I were someone thinking about selling them off. Some of them could be worth quite a bit in a year to collectors, like some laserdiscs were. And HD DVD players are still going to be manufactured and purchased (well, purchased, anyway) at least through the end of 2008. My advice is to hang on to your HD DVDs and see what happens. Sure, some are going to be worthless, but I'd be willing to bet some are going to shake out at $50 to $75 (or more) on the collector market. Hell, even the doomed D-VHS format from a few years ago has some titles going for $150 to collectors. Point is, collectors are crazy, and love to spend money to feed their niche collector habits, so you should wait and see if you can take advantage of that.

Unless Warner cancels it, I'll be buying that Justice League New Frontier in HD DVD because it's a combo disc. Otherwise, I'm switching all my pre-orders at Moviestop to Blu Ray. But I'm going to hang on to the ones I currently own, and see what happens in a year or so when the collectors crawl out of the woodwork.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
A little more insight into the deal and timetable of the decision, and when Warner told Toshiba, from Variety:

1) "Warner sister company New Line confirmed it will shift allegiance to Blu-ray only as well."

2) Warner: "This was not a bidding war."

3) Warner told Toshiba of their decision on Thursday.

4) May 31 is the last day for Warner on HD DVD.

Source: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978461.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1
This would support the statement by Toshiba, about being completely surprised, and also the timing of Microsoft's official denial of the built-in HD DVD Xbox360. I'm sure Warner would have given Toshiba more notice, if CES was further out. Circumstances, being what they are, though, Warner couldn't let Toshiba and Microsoft hold whole conferences, trumpeting the graces of HD DVD, only to have it all come crashing down.

Now, for the reason for the out-of-the-blu* Paramount/Dreamworks exclusivity announcement, I have no excuses.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
page 529, catching up.

BDA need to kill this now, and Toshiba's comments perhaps imply exit strategies.

Don't know how many standalones are out there now, but some kind of subsidy for HDDVD owners to buy bluray players (perhaps older models?), along with a studio free/subsidised replacement tomove them over from HDDVD to bluray would help.

Also the BDA might offer Toshiba some royalty break as an incentive to cave, so they don't lose *everything*, and they can speed up the transition.


Big Chief Crazy Cone said:
"The Rock" is on Blu-Ray.

This war is over.

its already out on bluray in the UK. as are con air and Crimson tide (which I have)
 
Okay, I just visited the HD DVD forum, at AVS, and here's the first post from the first thread listed in that forum.

Quote:
I'm posting this so it can help those with large hd-dvd collections or hardware

The Five Stages of the Grief
Grief can occur as the result of a number of different events – someone we know dies, a relationship ends, we lose a pet, we have to give up a long held goal in our life, or any other number of situations. But there is one common denominator in all of these events, and that is loss. Grief is a process of physical, emotional, social, and cognitive reactions to loss. The grieving process is often a hard one to work through. It requires patience with ourselves and with others. Although responses to loss are as diverse as the people experiencing it, patterns or stages that are commonly experienced have emerged. These stages were identified and named by Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. Knowing these five stages can sometimes help in coping with the process of grief and recognizing that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It should be noted that although most people experience all of the following stages, they do not experience them with the same duration, or in the same order, or with the same intensity. It is a very unique process.

Denial

Denial is generally the first stage in the grief process. It can be experienced as numbness or avoidance or isolation or direct denial. It is a stage in which we just cannot believe that the loss is true. We may tell ourselves that it did not really happen. It does not seem real.

Anger
Another stage of grief is anger. At this point, we have gotten past some or all of the denial, but now we are angry about the loss. We may want to take it out on something or someone, or we may just express our anger in ways that are familiar to us.

Bargaining
In the bargaining stage, we are trying to come up with ways to get back what we lost or just find someone or something to blame. Common thoughts include "If only I had just …." or "I wish we could have…." or "Maybe if I do this…." In the case of a lost relationship, we might actually bargain with the person we lost in an effort to get them back. "If I change my behavior, will you come back?"

Depression
The depression stage is just as it sounds, a time of sadness. It generally follows denial, anger, and bargaining when we feel helpless and hopeless to stop the loss. It may include crying, withdrawal, or any other way that expresses sadness.

Acceptance
The final stage is acceptance. Most often we have gone through all of the above stages and in many cases cycled through the above stages more than once before getting to acceptance. At this stage, we have (to some extent) reorganized ourselves and our thinking to incorporate the loss. This does not mean that we no longer get sad about the loss from time to time, but the sadness is now a part of us and does not keep us from functioning normally most of the time. Over time, the intensity of the sadness generally diminishes, but may never entirely go away.

Armed with the knowledge of these five stages, we can now better understand ourselves and others who are going through the grief process.

-------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly, this was the OP's first and only post on AVS, and s/he has a join date of Dec 2006. Guess this news was big enough to bring him/her out of the woodworks.

Now, I know this is pure comedy to some(most) people, but having read through each heading, I recognize that people on this very forum are going through these stages. Most important, is the first stage, denial. This may explain some of the irrational posts from some members who supported HD DVD, and apparently driven some to form radical militias.
I kid, Nicodimas!
Seriously, though, while some members are having meltdowns, let them. This news is truly emotionally disturbing for some people. Blowing-up in an Internet forum is a better way of dealing with emotional distraught, than walking into Best Buy and knocking over a Blu-ray rack. If someone, while letting off steam, somehow crosses the line, than that's what mods are for.

All that said, though, overall, this thread has remained largely civil. I applaud you, Gaf!
 

DrXym

Member
Synth_floyd said:
What advantages does HD-DVD actually have over blu-ray?

-Cost (it's cheaper)
-You can do dual DVD/HD-DVD discs

Anything else? It seems like otherwise blu-ray is clearly the superior technology. Am I wrong here? I want to buy a next-gen disc player soon and I'm confused about why HD-DVD seems to have so much support.

Its cheaper because Toshiba are subsidizing it. I wouldn't worry about that though since there are so many Blu Ray players appearing that the price will soon match HD DVD. Players are below $300 and probably below $200 before the year is out, probably even less.

I believe its possible to do hybrid DVD / BD disks. JVC announced it years ago. Why its not being used is an open question but maybe its just too expensive. Not all HD DVDs are hybrids either and probably for the same reason.

Otherwise I don't think there are many advantages. Someone in another thread mentioned that multi-language audio is handled in a more advanced way on HD DVD, and there are some trivial features like PIP that didn't appear until Blu Ray Profile 1.1. Nothing earthshattering though.
 

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
The best part about this is that I really thought the Paramount decision wasn't going to produce a clear winner until the end of 2008 and not the end of 2007, like many had hoped if Paramount remained neutral. Now Warner comes in and effectively keeps the same timetable with this announcement. Beautifully ironic.

I have to applaud them for this move, but I still hate their damn webstore ;)
 

Laurent

Member
I don't understand how come we don't see more high definition releases of Touchstone/ABC/Buena Vista's television series on Blu-ray like Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewifes or Ugly Betty. The only TV shows I saw available in an high def format on store shelves were Lost and The Sopranos...
 
Michael Bay's comments:

Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD DVD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!
 
Damn at WB going exclusive. Now I can use my cash for another PS3 (Region A) instead of the planned HD-DVD Player.

Hope Paramount gets out of the deal somehow. Gimmie Transformers and Indy :D !
 
George Claw M.D. said:
Okay, I just visited the HD DVD forum, at AVS, and here's the first post from the first thread listed in that forum.

Quote:
I'm posting this so it can help those with large hd-dvd collections or hardware

The Five Stages of the Grief
Grief can occur as the result of a number of different events – someone we know dies, a relationship ends, we lose a pet, we have to give up a long held goal in our life, or any other number of situations. But there is one common denominator in all of these events, and that is loss. Grief is a process of physical, emotional, social, and cognitive reactions to loss. The grieving process is often a hard one to work through. It requires patience with ourselves and with others. Although responses to loss are as diverse as the people experiencing it, patterns or stages that are commonly experienced have emerged. These stages were identified and named by Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. Knowing these five stages can sometimes help in coping with the process of grief and recognizing that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It should be noted that although most people experience all of the following stages, they do not experience them with the same duration, or in the same order, or with the same intensity. It is a very unique process.

Denial

Denial is generally the first stage in the grief process. It can be experienced as numbness or avoidance or isolation or direct denial. It is a stage in which we just cannot believe that the loss is true. We may tell ourselves that it did not really happen. It does not seem real.

Anger
Another stage of grief is anger. At this point, we have gotten past some or all of the denial, but now we are angry about the loss. We may want to take it out on something or someone, or we may just express our anger in ways that are familiar to us.

Bargaining
In the bargaining stage, we are trying to come up with ways to get back what we lost or just find someone or something to blame. Common thoughts include "If only I had just …." or "I wish we could have…." or "Maybe if I do this…." In the case of a lost relationship, we might actually bargain with the person we lost in an effort to get them back. "If I change my behavior, will you come back?"

Depression
The depression stage is just as it sounds, a time of sadness. It generally follows denial, anger, and bargaining when we feel helpless and hopeless to stop the loss. It may include crying, withdrawal, or any other way that expresses sadness.

Acceptance
The final stage is acceptance. Most often we have gone through all of the above stages and in many cases cycled through the above stages more than once before getting to acceptance. At this stage, we have (to some extent) reorganized ourselves and our thinking to incorporate the loss. This does not mean that we no longer get sad about the loss from time to time, but the sadness is now a part of us and does not keep us from functioning normally most of the time. Over time, the intensity of the sadness generally diminishes, but may never entirely go away.

Armed with the knowledge of these five stages, we can now better understand ourselves and others who are going through the grief process.

-------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly, this was the OP's first and only post on AVS, and s/he has a join date of Dec 2006. Guess this news was big enough to bring him/her out of the woodworks.

Now, I know this is pure comedy to some(most) people, but having read through each heading, I recognize that people on this very forum are going through these stages. Most important, is the first stage, denial. This may explain some of the irrational posts from some members who supported HD DVD, and apparently driven some to form radical militias.
I kid, Nicodimas!
Seriously, though, while some members are having meltdowns, let them. This news is truly emotionally disturbing for some people. Blowing-up in an Internet forum is a better way of dealing with emotional distraught, than walking into Best Buy and knocking over a Blu-ray rack. If someone, while letting off steam, somehow crosses the line, than that's what mods are for.

All that said, though, overall, this thread has remained largely civil. I applaud you, Gaf!

I mentioned the 5 stages of acceptance here and I was ignored.
 
this is something of a suprise given warners HD DVD preference so far. I guess it makes sense though if you have a superior release like 300 on one format and it sells less then I guess they had no choice. Looks like i will buy a PS3 sooner rather then later.

edit: When are some Fox Searchlight movies going to get Hd releases? I want Wes Anderson and movies and Sideways dammit!
 
i guess warner were waiting for profile 1.1 before making this move.

i hope no one that celebrated the paramount move is decrying this... and to a lesser degree, visa versa (since i can see why people felt paramounts move was a move away from having one format and this is a move towards it).

this is huge though naturally. unless hd-dvd have something up their sleeve i think it's fair to say the writing is officially on the wall.
 
michaeld said:
I don't see why everyone is all excited for the Batman movies, I saw a trailer for the new one and it looked lame as hell.
because people have different tastes and a lot of us really enjoyed the last one?

crazy talk i know... but you might have noticed that box office and dvd sales were huge... and that Batman Begins was one of the most requested blu-rays out of the handful of films warner had put out on HD-DVD but not blu-ray.
 
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