Support NeoGAF

[Raistlin]

I know..but if you did not know im not really the super serious type ya know?

But if you fuck with things I like atm you better be ready motherfucker!!

(hd-dvd, guns, capitalism, etc)

Well ... at least you like a couple good things ...

 

[Nicodimas]

Futureman I think paramount is screwed. Universal may be around until the end of the year for double dips.

Heres hoping toshiba pulls something out of there butts for desperation for CES. I mean logic dictates they got to try something.

 

[Raistlin]

I was mocking the person Phoenix quoted. I think you missed my point.

Yeah ... my drunken glee at the news got the better of me.

I mentioned it in a response to Nico. Sorry. This thread is moving pretty crazy fast.

 

[Nicodimas]

Onix I am also drunk Woot!

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Let's go Paramount and Universal! End this shit at CES! Exclusive Blu-Ray for all!

Universal has released a shitton of movies I want. It's been hurting to wait for them. C'mon, UNI!

Paramount I don't much care about. I have maybe two of their movies from before they wen Red. I can wait for their newer stuff.

 

[Ripclawe]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/technology/05disc.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=media&pagewanted=print

Warner Backs Blu-ray, Tilting DVD Battle
By BROOKS BARNES

LOS ANGELES — The high-definition DVD war is all but over.

Hollywood’s squabble over which of two technologies will replace standard DVDs skewed in the direction of the Sony Corporation on Friday, with Warner Brothers casting the deciding vote in favor of the company’s Blu-ray discs over the rival format, HD DVD.

In some ways, the fight is a replay of the VHS versus Betamax battle of the 1980s. This time, however, the Sony product appears to have prevailed.

“The overwhelming industry opinion is that this decides the format battle in favor of Blu-ray,” said Richard Doherty, research director at the Envisioneering Group, a market research firm in Seaford, N.Y.

Behind the studio’s decision are industrywide fears about the sagging home entertainment market, which has bruised the movie industry in recent years as piracy, competition from video games and the Internet, and soaring costs have cut into profitability. Analysts predict that domestic DVD sales fell by nearly 3 percent in 2007, partly because of confusion in the marketplace over the various formats.

HD DVD, however, is not dead. Two major studios, Paramount Pictures and Universal Pictures, have deals in place to continue releasing their movies exclusively on HD DVD, as does DreamWorks Animation. Warner Brothers, part of Time Warner, will also continue to release its titles on both formats until the end of May.

But by supporting Blu-ray, Warner Brothers, the largest player in the $42 billion global home entertainment market, makes it next to impossible for HD DVD to recover the early momentum it achieved.

While the specifics of the Blu-ray and HD DVD skirmish might be of interest only to insiders, the consequences of deciding a winner are not. Consumers have been largely sitting on the sidelines, waiting to buy high-definition players until they see which will have the most titles available. Retailers have been complaining about having to devote space to three kinds of DVDs. And the movie business has delayed tapping a lucrative new market worth billions. High-definition discs sell for a 25 percent premium.

“Consolidating into one format is something that we felt was necessary for the health of the industry,” Barry M. Meyer, the chief executive of Warner Brothers, said in a telephone interview. “The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger.”

In addition to Sony, a consortium of other electronics makers back Blu-ray. For Sony, Warner’s decision is a chance to rewrite history: the company faltered in its introduction of Betamax in the consumer market in the 1980s. Many analysts say the HD DVD players now risk becoming the equivalent of Betamax machines, which died out in large part because it became harder for consumers to find Betamax movies as studios shifted allegiance to VHS.

With Warner on board, Blu-ray now has about 70 percent of the market locked up; Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox, MGM, Lionsgate and, of course, Sony are all on Blu-ray’s team. Warner Brothers has some of the bigger releases in 2008, including “Speed Racer,” the Batman sequel “The Dark Knight” and the sixth Harry Potter installment.

“This doesn’t necessarily kill the HD DVD format, but it definitely deals it a severe blow,” said Paul Erickson, an analyst at the NPD Group’s DisplaySearch. “When a consumer asks a store clerk which format to buy, that clerk is now going to have a hard time arguing for HD DVD.”

In a prepared statement, Toshiba said it was “quite surprised” and “particularly disappointed” by Warner’s decision. “We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies,” the company said. Universal Pictures declined to comment.

Warner Brothers has been courted for months by both sides. Toshiba dispatched Yoshihide Fujii, the executive in charge of its HD DVD business, to the studio three times in recent months, according to Time Warner executives who were granted anonymity because the negotiations were confidential. Sony has aimed even higher: Howard Stringer, the conglomerate’s chief executive, has leaned on Jeffrey Bewkes, the new chief executive of Time Warner.

Money was an issue. Toshiba offered to pay Warner Brothers substantial incentives to come down on its side — just as it gave Paramount and DreamWorks Animation a combined $150 million in financial incentives for their business, according to two executives with knowledge of the talks who asked not to be identified.

Kevin Tsujihara, president of the Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group, declined to comment on whether any payments were offered for support of Blu-ray. “This market is absolutely critical to our future growth,” he said in a telephone interview. “You couldn’t put a number on that.”

For his part, Mr. Meyer said, “We’re not in this for a short-term financial hit.”

Which high-definition technology is better has been the subject of intense debate in Hollywood and electronics circles for years. HD DVD players have been much cheaper than Blu-ray machines, but Blu-ray discs have more storage space and more advanced protections against piracy. Both versions deliver sharp resolution.

Consumers were inundated with marketing from both sides during the recent holiday season. Wal-Mart, as part of a temporary promotion, offered Toshiba players for under $100. Sony and its retailing partners, including Best Buy, responded by dropping prices on Blu-ray players, although not to the same level. Blu-ray players can now be purchased for under $300.

Still, Blu-ray was emerging as a front-runner as early as August. Blu-ray titles have sharply outsold HD DVD offerings — by as much 2 to 1, according to some analysts — and some retailers like Target started stocking only Blu-ray players. Blockbuster said last summer that it would carry Blu-ray exclusively.

“We’ve been monitoring the situation with consumers for a while now and they have clearly made their choice,” Mr. Meyer said. “We followed.”

 

[Raistlin]

Futureman I think paramount is screwed. Universal may be around until the end of the year for double dips.

Heres hoping toshiba pulls something out of there butts for desperation for CES. I mean logic dictates they got to try something.

Actually, I'd guess logic would dictate that wouldn't blow any more money ... and simply lay low while they suck up whatever revenue they can from movie licensing.

I wouldn't be surprised if they stop manufacturing players soon ... at least the ones they don't make a profit on (assuming they make a profit on any lol)

 

[Raistlin]

Onix I am also drunk Woot!

:lol

I read this news, and started off with a nice Scotch/Wiskey Blend (Teachers). Then moved to a glass of Sky Vodka with some grape-flavored water.

 

[RaidenZR]

Did anyone else see this article?

Link

Warner Bros. will throw all its weight behind Blu-ray later this year, a decision that could serve as a death blow to the rival HD DVD format.
Studio, which had hinted it might drop one format after the holidays, said it decided to back Blu-ray to try and reduce confusion brought on by the high-def format war and better drive mainstream adoption. Warner made the decision heading into the annual Consumer Electronics Show confab in Las Vegas, where it had been skedded to participate in activities promoting the rival HD DVD format on Sunday evening.

Warner execs cited Blu-ray's domestic and international sales as the tipping point in its favor. From the start, the Sony developed format enjoys has had an advantage in greater studio support and the PlayStation 3 console, which plays high-def movies and, at least in the early going, was much more affordable than Blu-ray decks, which have tended to carry a higher price tag than HD DVD counterparts.

Warner's move leaves only Paramount and Universal squarely in the HD DVD camp. Sony, Fox, Disney and Lionsgate all back Blu-ray. Warner sister company New Line confirmed it will shift allegiance to Blu-ray only as well.

Warner has been the sole major backing both formats since late this summer, when Paramount dropped Blu-ray in favor of HD DVD, due in part to marketing incentives proffered by Toshiba and belief HD DVD's lower cost would drive greater mainstream adoption.

However, hardware manufacturers for both sides offered sizable discounts for players during the holidays, reducing the price gap between the two formats. And studios did their part to dangle promotional incentives on the software side.

Yet Warner found that consumers still hesitated to dip their toes into the high-def waters due to confusion over the dueling formats.

"The price impediment was going away, but the take up wasn't increasing that much," said Warner Home Entertainment topper Kevin Tsujihara. "The research was making it pretty clear there was still a tremendous amount of confusion among consumers."

Supporting both formats came with a cost for the studio, which had to maintain dual inventories for their releases. And while the studio had some of the best sellers on high-def when both formats were added together, they couldn't help but wonder whether dual support was helping, or hurting, the transition to a next-gen format.

"By us being both, we were playing into consumer confusion," Tsujihara said. "There's a window of opportunity with first time buyers of HD TVs to also buy a high-def player at the same time."

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger," Warner Bros. chairman and CEO Barry Meyer seconded.

However, the studio insists that cost was not the underlying motivation for the shift. Paramount drew a lot of flak for taking Toshiba incentives, said to be $150 million, to exclusively back HD DVD.

"This was not a bidding war," Tsujihara said.

He pointed out that worldwide the DVD biz brings in $42 billion annually and his studio draws the greatest portion of that as market share leader.

"That amount far dwarfs any financial incentives," he said.

And indeed, Paramount has maintained that it backed HD DVD because it was generally lower priced and therefore had a greater chance of mass adoption.

Warners' Blu-ray shift has been rumored for some time, but the studio insisted it would wait to see how both formats fared during the crucial holiday sales period before backing one format exclusively. Indeed, late in the fourth quarter, the studio ran full page newspaper ads touting HD DVD benefits on one side and Blu-ray on the other. During this point, homevid topper Ron Sanders talked openly of the need to move beyond the format war and convince consumers of the benefits of high-def (Variety, Dec. 17-23).

Warner’s timing apparently took the HD DVD camp by surprise, however. Thursday afternoon, shortly before Warner said it notified Toshiba of the decision, HD DVD backers were paying media calls. The North American HD DVD Promo Group cancelled its Sunday CES confab after Warner’s went public with the decision Friday afternoon.

The shift doesn’t go into effect until June 1. Sanders said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format’s backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front. Last summer, Blockbuster similarly phased out HD DVD discs from rental rotation.

Sanders said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format's backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front. Blockbuster similarly phased out HD DVD discs at its rental stores.

Studios and manufacturers have been fighting a pitched battle over high-def because there is so much at stake: Sales of standard DVD has started to decline and digital downloads are even smaller than high-def at this point. DVD sales generate around $16 billion annually for the studios, with rental biz contributing another $8 billion or so to the annual domestic homevid spending.

Warner's decision to back Blu-ray exclusively reps its third shift in high-def strategy. Initially, the studio said it would back HD DVD, then shifted toward dual format support in October 2005, several months before the first high-def discs hit shelves (Daily Variety, Oct. 20, 2005). Paramount made similar moves before settling on HD DVD late this summer (Daily Variety, Aug. 21). That commitment is believed to run through this year.

Warner's shift toward Blu-ray is expected to hasten the demise of HD DVD. Victory would give Sony a long awaited triumph after Betamax lost the videocassette war to VHS.

 

[el Diablo]

Eh i don't read HDD so what exactly is it? Hi Def Digest or what? Not enough irrational meltdowns here and i'm in the mood to laugh.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Universal has released a shitton of movies I want. It's been hurting to wait for them. C'mon, UNI!

Paramount I don't much care about. I have maybe two of their movies from before they wen Red. I can wait for their newer stuff.

Paramount is a given anyway as soon as they can, it is not even a question.
The moment they have an out or their contract is up, they are off like a prom dress.
I would imagine that they have lawyers already scouring the contracts for an out.
Universal has a heavy heavy weight on their shoulders right now because they know how the cards are sitting and they know that they have no bluffs left.
It is not a matter of if they will cross, it is a matter of how far and how long it will take them to find a way to do it while saving face.

 

[Raistlin]

Did anyone else see this article?

Link

Nice to have the confirmation.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I doubt they have lawyers trying to figure out loopholes.

Spoiler

I'm sure they had the lawyers do that before they were even signed.

 

[Nicodimas]

The Golden Compass
Sweeney Todd
Fred Claus(i liked it)
Atonement
I am Legend(HD-DVD and BR release)
PS I Love You(HD-DVD and BR release)
Charlie Wilson's War
American Gangster
Bee Movie
Beowulf
Bucket List(HD-DVD and BR release)
August Rush(HD-DVD and BR release)
Awake
Things We Lost in the Fire

Cloverfield
Iron Man

blantly stolden from avs

 

[Poona]

It's all a bit crazy.

Warner was one of the major reasons I chose HD DVD. I saw that they released on Blu-ray and HD DVD but they gave many exclusives and better discs to HD DVD (such as Batman Begins, Smallville series 5, V For Vendetta, 300, The Matrix), so i decided they were the best. Now at some stage when I can be bothered at getting probably a PS3 for some reason it will again most likely be because of Warner. If only they had chosen Blu-ray first I probably wouldn't have a HD DVD player, although if I did the only titles I'd pretty much have would be Heroes - Series 1, Transformers and King Kong (came with 360 add-on).

 

[michaeld]

Hey don't ditch those hd-dvd players just yet, a killer new use!

 

[Fisticuffs]

It's all a bit crazy.

Warner was one of the major reasons I chose HD DVD. I saw that they released on Blu-ray and HD DVD but they gave many exclusives and better discs to HD DVD (such as Batman Begins, Smallville series 5, V For Vendetta, 300, The Matrix), so i decided they were the best. Now at some stage when I can be bothered at getting probably a PS3 for some reason it will again most likely be because of Warner. If only they had chosen Blu-ray first I probably wouldn't have a HD DVD player, although if I did the only titles I'd pretty much have would be Heroes - Series 1, Transformers and King Kong (came with 360 add-on).

that's why you don't jump the gun.

 

[OokieSpookie]

The Golden Compass
Sweeney Todd
Fred Claus(i liked it)
Atonement
I am Legend(HD-DVD and BR release)
PS I Love You(HD-DVD and BR release)
Charlie Wilson's War
American Gangster
Bee Movie
Beowulf
Bucket List(HD-DVD and BR release)
August Rush(HD-DVD and BR release)
Awake
Things We Lost in the Fire

Cloverfield
Iron Man

blantly stolden from avs

I am legend is a toss up really.
Warner says that movies will come first on blu, and then hd even before may so it depends on how that falls.

 

[Nicodimas]

That whole warner breach of contract may be true. What a waste of money for Toshiba...

 

[ghostmind]

Post from DVD boards:

Steve_Zissou posted:

Well, if the talk around the office at Warner turns out true the wake this announcement has caused hasn't even come close to hitting yet. My guy at Warner says a lot of the talk coming from the upper level guys at WHV is going something like this:

1. Toshiba ending HD DVD stand alone production within 8 weeks.
2. MS will be notifying retailers to liquidate any remaining 360 add-ons.
3. P/DW will be allowed out of their contract.
4. Universal will be canceling production of HD discs with a BD launch date as early as Q3 2008.
5. The BDA made a nearly $300 million dollar package of marketing incentives, production incentives, and cash payments to get Warner to switch now.
6. The HD DVD promo group recently offered a similar package totaling $350 million.

He says 2 and 3 could be announced as soon as Monday. 1 and 4 might be a little ways off.


Take it for what you will.

The rumors, they be flying...

 

[Ponn]

The Golden Compass
Sweeney Todd
Fred Claus(i liked it)
Atonement
I am Legend(HD-DVD and BR release)
PS I Love You(HD-DVD and BR release)
Charlie Wilson's War
American Gangster
Bee Movie
Beowulf
Bucket List(HD-DVD and BR release)
August Rush(HD-DVD and BR release)
Awake
Things We Lost in the Fire

Cloverfield
Iron Man

blantly stolden from avs

I wouldn't be putting much faith in that list right now. Blades of Glory, Top Gun and Transformers all had BD discs ready to go. Things are going to be changing pretty quickly here.

 

[Nicodimas]

Post from DVD boards:

Steve_Zissou posted:

Well, if the talk around the office at Warner turns out true the wake this announcement has caused hasn't even come close to hitting yet. My guy at Warner says a lot of the talk coming from the upper level guys at WHV is going something like this:

1. Toshiba ending HD DVD stand alone production within 8 weeks.
2. MS will be notifying retailers to liquidate any remaining 360 add-ons.
3. P/DW will be allowed out of their contract.
4. Universal will be canceling production of HD discs with a BD launch date as early as Q3 2008.
5. The BDA made a nearly $300 million dollar package of marketing incentives, production incentives, and cash payments to get Warner to switch now.
6. The HD DVD promo group recently offered a similar package totaling $350 million.

He says 2 and 3 could be announced as soon as Monday. 1 and 4 might be a little ways off.

Even that sound like BS to me. Toshiba is going to hold on for this year and into next. We are not talking about a small company here.

 

[Kadey]

Damn this thread flies.

Anyway, comment from Toshiba themselves. Lest it be posted already.


Toshiba's Comment on Announcement from Warner Bros. Entertainment of Its
Exclusive Support for Blu-ray Disc Format

TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.'
decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there
are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of
HD DVD. As central members of the DVD Forum, we have long maintained a close
partnership with Warner Bros. We worked closely together to help standardize
the first-generation DVD format as well as to define and shape HD DVD as its
next-generation successor.
We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite of
the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other
regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market
in 2007.
We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD
DVD partner companies and evaluate potential next steps. We remain firm in
our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the
consumer.
Press Contact
Corporate Communications Office
Keisuke Ohmori
+81-3-3457-2105
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/contact/media.htm

SOURCE Toshiba

Keisuke Ohmori, Corporate Communications Office of Toshiba, +81-3-3457-2105
We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD
DVD partner companies and evaluate potential next steps. We remain firm in
our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the
consumer.

 

[CajoleJuice]

Glad this shit is pretty much over now. R.I.P. HD-DVD

 

[Xisiqomelir]

So...anyone think the BDA might pull DVD playback a couple of years down the line to spur the switchover from SD media?

 

[Nicodimas]

So...anyone think the BDA might pull DVD playback a couple of years down the line to spur the switchover from SD media

uhhh no.

 

[Oni Jazar]

We all want to know...Where is Rob Enderle?

 

[VictimOfGrief]

We all want to know...Where is Rob Enderle?

dead somewhere.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

I think I am sort of glad even though I own an HD DVD player only right now. I think it's for the better if we only have one HD format. I think it will legitamize Next gen DVD's and make BRD more than just a PS3 feature.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

uhhh no.

Not a plausible scenario? DVD playback isn't officially part of BD spec. I can practically see the "to reduce costs and pass the savings on to our customers, we will abandon this archaic and redundant technology" PR once BD gets to say 30% in the weeklies with a strong upwards momentum.

 

[Nicodimas]

http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2007.php

2007 releases.


Not a plausible scenario? DVD playback isn't officially part of BD spec. I can practically see the "to reduce costs and pass the savings on to our customers, we will abandon this archaic and redundant technology" PR once BD gets to say 30% in the weeklies with a strong upwards momentum.

Just a bad business decision...Sony might do it though.

 

[Y2Kev]

Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.'
decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there
are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of
HD DVD.

*breathes*

oh my :lol

 

[VictimOfGrief]

wait a minute...... Blu-Ray players can't play normal DVD's?!?!??!

 

[Jirotrom]

wait a minute...... Blu-Ray players can't play normal DVD's?!?!??!

:lol :lol

 

[Xisiqomelir]

wait a minute...... Blu-Ray players can't play normal DVD's?!?!??!

Dammit, that's not what I said.

They all do currently

They don't technically have to, since it's not part of spec

EDIT: Sarcasm detector might have failed to go off.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

:lol :lol

Oh snap huh? :lol

 

[Nicodimas]

They don't have to

Your telling me you want your blu-ray player not to play dvds?

 

[B-Ri]

So...anyone think the BDA might pull DVD playback a couple of years down the line to spur the switchover from SD media?

i thought it was a requirement that the new formats be fully backwards compadable with DVDs?

they wont pull it.

 

[Kintaro]

wait a minute...... Blu-Ray players can't play normal DVD's?!?!??!

Wat? Either I'm drowning in sarcasm or I missed a joke in this fast moving thread. =x

 

[el Diablo]

i thought it was a requirement that the new formats be fully backwards compadable with DVDs?

they wont pull it.

Yeah well no one thought they'd pull the PS2 BC out of the PS3 and look how that one turned out :lol.

Yes, even though i own a 60 i am still very bitter about this.

 

[B-Ri]

Yeah well no one thought they'd pull the PS2 BC out of the PS3 and look how that one turned out :lol.

Yes, even though i own a 60 i am still very bitter about this.

stop throwing gaming into this


this is an ENTIRELY different place.

they WONT pull DVD out of it, stop pulling FUD. good LORD people.

 

[Nicodimas]

Sony hates people remember this.

 

[Nicodimas]

btw there is no loyalty from Warner without a contract to Blu.


Though thay may be moot if they had a contract to Hd-dvd.

 

[Soybean]

I got the first 4 Harry Potter movies for $40 from Amazon, but now they're going back! I'll be losing money since you have to cover return shipping, but I'm sure Netflix et al will be dumping their HD DVDs for pennies soon enough.

 

[Ponn]

Sony hates people remember this.

They do. I went outside to get my newspaper this morning and Kaz was standing there. I said hi and he punched me in the face and walked off.

 

[Nicodimas]

You had it easy...could have been your nuts.

 

[Laurent]

Wow, that would be the first time that I would finally bet on the winner... meh, it's not over yet!

Source

 

[Doublethink]

New Line should be Blu

 

[NumberTwo]

Phil pissed in my corn flakes the other morning. I had nothing else to eat at the time so I still ate it, but I don't appreciate what he did.

 

[dabig2]

btw there is no loyalty from Warner without a contract to Blu.


Though thay may be moot if they had a contract to Hd-dvd.