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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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K

Kastro

Banned
Suikoguy said:
The next few weeks will be very interesting, some big decisions have to be made by lots of companies.

Regarding HD-DVD;

I do think that being region free was what killed HD-DVD, who knows what fox, disney would have done if HD-DVD had the option to put region locks in. Region-free is the direction things are going, especially as the world is increasingly global, however I think it was too early of a decision.

Another mistake was the Combo Disc. They were move expensive then the Blu-Ray counterparts, which also added to the confusion of the format (There was TotalHD, HD-DVD/DVD, and HD-DVD)

I do think that if there was a region lock option, HD-DVD would be the format that won, and the war would have been over last year, or never happened.

The whole situation warrants a damn history book!
Click to expand...

a good point, that nobody really talked about.

The idea of region free sounds great to consumers, but no way would all studios have agreed to it.
 
N

nofi

Member
dalin80 said:
wow the rancid sony hate on AVS is scary.

also did you US'ers really have a $99 hd dvd player for sale at some point in time? that's £45 (a days wages for most) here and compare that to the cheapest we have at ~£180 ($360)

cant believe you lot are so stingy, always moaning about hardware prices but getting them at half the price most of the rest of world does :p

anyway my HD viewing choice was made the day i decided i wanted a ps3 to replace my ps2, the equipment that introduced me to DVD's.
Click to expand...

Blu-Rays are like £1 in the US, too.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Stinkles said:
A lot of that hate stems from Sony's jacked-up pricing of unremarkable tech. You pay a $400 premium for the Sony badge on an LCD, for example. I doubt many of the haters are doing any examination of useful Sony patents.
Click to expand...

They certainly do jack the pricing on some stuff, but for a lot of things ... your paying for the R&D (which should be accepted). If it wasn't this way, things wouldn't progress at the rate they do.


As for doubting the hater know about this ... in the general population, sure ... you're right. However, I'm talking about a lot of the people at AVS. People that are REALLY into the HT hobby ... they actually DO have an understanding of many Sony patents. That's the type of person I don't 'get'. :p
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
anyone else expecting toshiba to get money from sony to bow out of this thing in the next few weeks?

i just hope sammy still puts out its hybrid player. so long as i get a fully functional 1.1 brd with hdi compatable hddvd i'll be all set.

although having the last two potter boxes a different color will look odd.
 
R

Ripclawe

Banned
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS33934+05-Jan-2008+BW20080105

For the first time ever, WDSHE will begin releasing its treasured
animated classics on Platinum Edition Blu-ray Disc(TM) launching with
Sleeping Beauty in the fall of 2008. Taking advantage of the numerous
technological advancements of the Blu-ray format, these all time
favorites have been revitalized to include exceptional high-definition
picture and sound quality and compelling interactive content such as
virtual games, full motion picture-in-picture and online shopping
capabilities via BD-Live broadband connection.

Sleeping Beauty will be WDSHE's first Platinum Edition Blu-ray
Disc and will feature a Virtual Castle, utilizing the new BD-Live
technology, as well as the interactive game Maleficent's Challenge
which puts viewers face-to-face with one of Disney's greatest
villains. Sleeping Beauty Blu-ray Disc will also feature an all-new
enhanced home theater mix in 7.1 surround sound.

Disney/Pixar's Finding Nemo Blu-ray Disc will debut the first
Cine-Explore featuring full motion picture-in-picture (BonusView).
This interactive visual commentary with director Andrew Stanton,
co-writer Bob Peterson and co-director Lee Unkrich allows the viewer
to dive deeper into the making of Finding Nemo without ever leaving
the film. For kids and families, there is the all-new BD-Java enabled
learning mode "Mr. Ray's Ed-venture." Hosted by Dory, Marlin and of
course Mr. Ray, viewers will learn all about sea life and have the
opportunity to earn stickers for their virtual sticker book by
answering "quizlettes" while watching the movie. Viewers can also go
to their sticker book at any time and create their own scene. Finding
Nemo will also feature an all-new enhanced home theater mix in 7.1
surround sound.

As part of its continued worldwide Blu-ray release strategy, WDSHE
will be announcing the addition of many exciting movie titles to their
2008 Blu-ray line-up in North America, Europe and Asia.

In North America, WDSHE will be releasing new theatrical titles to
Blu-ray Disc day-and-date with DVD including The Game Plan (Walt
Disney Pictures) on January 22; Gone Baby Gone and Becoming Jane (both
Miramax) on February 12; and Dan In Real Life (Touchstone Pictures) on
March 11. WDSHE will expand its catalogue titles on Blu-ray Disc with
the releases of The Rock (Hollywood Pictures) and Con Air (Touchstone
Pictures) on January 8; Crimson Tide (Hollywood Pictures) on February
5; The Rookie (Walt Disney Pictures) on March 4; Hidalgo (Touchstone
Pictures), Coyote Ugly: The Double Shot Edition (Touchstone Pictures),
Unbreakable (Touchstone Pictures), The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion,
The Witch and The Wardrobe (Walt Disney Pictures) and National
Treasure: Collector's Edition (Walt Disney Pictures) in spring 2008.

In Europe/Australia, WDSHE will roll out Blu-ray Discs in 2008
beginning with The Recruit (Touchstone Pictures) in January; and Dark
Water (Touchstone Pictures) in February; Underdog (Walt Disney
Pictures) and Starsky & Hutch (Buena Vista) in February; Coyote Ugly
(Touchstone Pictures) and The Rookie (Walt Disney Pictures) in March;
Hidalgo (Touchstone Pictures) and Gone Baby Gone (Miramax) in April;
Signs (Touchstone Pictures), There Will Be Blood (Miramax), Shall We
Dance (Miramax), Ladder 49 (Touchstone Pictures), The Chronicles of
Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe (Walt Disney Pictures)
and National Treasure: Collector's Edition (Walt Disney Pictures) in
May; and The Game Plan (Walt Disney Pictures) and Unbreakable
(Touchstone Pictures) in summer 2008.

Japan will see WDSHE release Blu-ray titles starting with
Hollywoodland (Miramax) in February; The Rookie (Walt Disney
Pictures), Hidalgo (Touchstone Pictures), Meet The Robinsons (Walt
Disney Pictures), and Starsky & Hutch (Buena Vista) in April; The
Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe (Walt
Disney Pictures), Coyote Ugly (Touchstone Pictures) and National
Treasure: Collector's Edition (Walt Disney Pictures) in May; and
Unbreakable (Touchstone Pictures) and Signs (Touchstone Pictures) in
summer 2008.
Click to expand...
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Stinkles said:
It's not a spec requirement. I doubt it will ever matter in players though. Maybe the odd PC burner might drop it.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right ... it isn't mandated. However, it will NEVER be mandated that you should not include it ... and all players will have it, since people would just buy from the manufacturer that has it if others drop it.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Suikoguy said:
I do think that being region free was what killed HD-DVD, who knows what fox, disney would have done if HD-DVD had the option to put region locks in. Region-free is the direction things are going, especially as the world is increasingly global, however I think it was too early of a decision.
Click to expand...

I think studios always wanted the option ... because the world is getting more global (people can easily order things from other regions).

The problem is that things are released (in theaters, on TV) at different times in different regions ... and in many cases, by different companies.

Studios don't like losing money :p
 
S

skrew

Banned
Nicodimas said:
Taken from coolhand at avs:

1) It is. Talk (Blu-Ray insider) finally let it slip that it cost more to manufacture BDs than HD yesterday. It had been widely accepted that it was so for a long time. HD could essentially use existing HD replication lines to produce HD DVDs (all lines made in the past 2+ years had built in capabilities and the cost to upgrade was minimal to upgrade older lines). BD replication is more difficult and entirely new lines must be fabricated at a cost of ~2.5M per line. There are ~14 lines currently (they also produce PS3 games). For reference, there are somewhere between 300-400 DVD production lines.

The biggest issue is that there are still issues producing BD50s. There are only two replicators and neither one wants to discuss costs or yields. Sony is one of those replicators and Cinram is the other. It is widely accepted that Sony is footing the bill for a substantial portion of the replication costs (a practice they are now less likely to continue). About 3 months ago Dave Vaughan said they were getting yields under 50% on the BEST LINES. They do seem to have improved on this, but that was a large reason that Paramount left. My best guess is that it costs atleast $4 to produce a BD50 right now (DL DVD is ~$.75, DL HD~$1.70).

2) Yes and no. There are minimum specs to be a 1.1 player, a 2.0 player, etc. The specs are largely driven by what it would take to perform certain functions. One of the primary functions of 1.1 is to provided PIP. There were a few BDs that had PIP commentaries and they were actually putting two copies of the movie on the disk. One for the movie and one with a picture inside it to provided PiP. Version 2.0 will offer Web Enabled/Interactive features. 2.0 is the last announced minimum standard but it is conceivable that players will go above the requirements of 2.0 if they can find benefits of doing so. Keep in mind, the $99 HD players did as much as the unannounced 2.0 players.

The real problem with the profiles is that studios won't provide extras because the players won't play them anyways and they cost a substantial amount to produce. The CEs won't get ahead on the HW side and movie into the higher profiles because there is no benefit. It costs a substantial amount to upgrade the player to the higher specs and there is no software for it anyways. So they essentially would have a player costing $100 more that provides the same functionality of its lower priced competitors. I doubt 5,000 1.1 players have been sold to the public (outside of the PS3 obviously).
Click to expand...


The $99 players weren't 1080p you idiot, you know the HIGH def part of HD? All profile 2.0 has 1gb of local storage but continue on with your fud.
 
E

el Diablo

Banned
Onix said:
That said, Sony has in fact supported certain platforms that had respectable userbases. MiniDisc, Beta, SACD have had good support given their relative marginal userbases.
Click to expand...

You've also forgotten the extremely niche UMD (hell there's only one piece of CE in the whole world that plays them :lol). Picked up a PSP slim a few months ago and was shocked at how many newer movies still are produced on UMD.

Also another plus is that we'll never have to see anything like this monstrosity on shelves

6pheq2s.jpg
 
S

surazal

Member
Madman said:
I read here about AVSforum for awhile here and decided to check it out. Wow.
Click to expand...

If you think AVSforum is bad, you should check out highdefdigest forums. They are still trying to spin the news in their favor.
 
V

Vashu

Member
bune duggy said:
you're absolutely right. you can't purchase 3/4 of the movies filmed on an HD-DVD disc but it'll win because of the "DVD" in the name.

6ujxc21.jpg
Click to expand...

I love it when people miss 'it'. :lol
 
A

Azrael

Member
StoOgE said:
anyone else expecting toshiba to get money from sony to bow out of this thing in the next few weeks?
Click to expand...

I don't think they would. I mean, if HD DVD is still hanging on by the fall maybe, just to have it over with before the Christmas shopping season starts, but not now.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
el Diablo said:
You've also forgotten the extremely niche UMD (hell there's only one piece of CE in the whole world that plays them :lol). Picked up a PSP slim a few months ago and was shocked at how many newer movies still are produced on UMD.
Click to expand...

I think Sony could have made it a decent alternative ... but they really screwed up the marketing. Granted, it probably wouldn't have caught on since it came out at a time when SD DD actually is starting to get legit.


That said, I don't think Sony ever did take it all that seriously as a movie platform. UMD needed to exist for PSP games ... and just happened to 'be there' ... so they released movies. Kind of stupid, but the only people that are buying them already have a PSP, and it should be around for a while. So I guess, no one is really harmed.
 
E

el Diablo

Banned
Onix said:
I think Sony could have made it a decent alternative ... but they really screwed up the marketing. Granted, it probably wouldn't have caught on since it came out at a time when SD DD actually is starting to get legit.


That said, I don't think Sony ever did take it all that seriously as a movie platform. UMD needed to exist for PSP games ... and just happened to 'be there' ... so they released movies. Kind of stupid, but the only people that are buying them already have a PSP, and it should be around for a while. So I guess, no one is really harmed.
Click to expand...

I agree, if they'd priced them right ($5) i and alot of others i'm sure would have been all over them. I picked up a few movies for $5 in an online sale awhile back and they looked fantastic on the PSP screen.

On the subject of digital download movies, DD for the PSP would be f'ing fantastic. I believe the UMD capacity is like 1.4 or 1.7 GB and that's perfect for a dd movie.
 
K

Kolgar

Member
It figures that an hour after I return from Best Buy having taken advantage of their "buy-three-get-two-free" HD DVD sale yesterday, Warner would go Blu-ray exclusive. :lol

Given some of the rumors I'd heard floating around, though, I figured there was a possibility something would happen.

No matter, I made good on it today. This morning I exchanged my 2001 and Blade Runner discs for Hot Fuzz (an exclusive Combo Disc) and TMNT (a Combo). Now all but one of my five discs is an exclusive, and all but one is a Combo, so I feel right as rain about my purchase.

I'll pick up 2001 and Blade Runner for Blu-ray instead.

Interestingly, while I was at the store, I saw an older couple perusing the HD DVD section with a handful of discs. I asked them, "Did you just buy your player?" They said they'd had it for a year. I gently broke the news to them about Warner's decision yesterday and they just grinned and said, "Maybe we'll have to pick up one of those players that plays both."

Haha. Good on them.

I'd complained earlier in the week that Toshiba had sent me that shitty movie, The Rundown, instead of We Were Soldiers as part of my five-free-discs deal. Maybe I'm just soft, but somehow I don't think I have the heart anymore to call them up and demand they send me the right disc. :lol I think I'll just let this one slide.

Meanwhile, is that Blu-ray BOGO still going on at Amazon? I'm gonna pick up a Die Hard or something if it is.
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
Kolgar said:
It figures that an hour after I return from Best Buy having taken advantage of their "buy-three-get-two-free" HD DVD sale yesterday, Warner would go Blu-ray exclusive. :lol

But I made good on it. This morning I exchanged my 2001 and Blade Runner discs for Hot Fuzz (an exclusive Combo Disc) and TMNT (a Combo). Now all but one of my five discs is an exclusive, and all but one is a Combo, so I feel right as rain about my purchase.

I'll pick up 2001 and Blade Runner for Blu-ray instead.

Interestingly, while I was at the store, I saw an older couple perusing the HD DVD section with a handful of discs. I asked them, "Did you just buy your player?" They said they'd had it for a year. I gently broke the news to them about Warner's decision yesterday and they just grinned and said, "Maybe we'll have to pick up one of those players that plays both."

Haha. Good on them.

I'd complained earlier in the week that Toshiba had sent me that shitty movie, The Rundown, instead of We Were Soldiers as part of my five-free-discs deal. Maybe I'm just soft, but somehow I don't think I have the heart anymore to call them up and demand they send me the right disc. :lol I think I'll just let this one slide.

Meanwhile, is that Blu-ray BOGO still going on at Amazon? I'm gonna pick up a Die Hard or something if it is.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was still on yesterday.
 
Q

quest

Not Banned from OT
skrew said:
The $99 players weren't 1080p you idiot, you know the HIGH def part of HD? All profile 2.0 has 1gb of local storage but continue on with your fud.
Click to expand...

Last time I looked the vast majority of HD-TVs including both of mine are not 1080p. I don't really feel like paying for something I will not use. I would gladly welcome a 2.0 1080i/720p blu player that was 199 or less. Also 2.0 adds ethernet which with firmare updates is must of me. I don't feel like scowering the net for an iso then download/burn to disc it to play a new movie that does not work. I would rather push a button and the player do all the work.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Onix said:
I think Sony could have made it a decent alternative ... but they really screwed up the marketing. Granted, it probably wouldn't have caught on since it came out at a time when SD DD actually is starting to get legit.


That said, I don't think Sony ever did take it all that seriously as a movie platform. UMD needed to exist for PSP games ... and just happened to 'be there' ... so they released movies. Kind of stupid, but the only people that are buying them already have a PSP, and it should be around for a while. So I guess, no one is really harmed.
Click to expand...


I don't think the problem was sony's with UMD, it was the movie studios. They were (and to an extent still are) of the opinion that their content is worth the same value regardless of how or where it is viewed. That has to change IMO.

UMD or movies designed to watch on the go (PSP/ipod/smartphone) need to be able to be cheaper to rent than full HD versions. But they aren't. and the business model just wasn't in place to allow UMDs to be priced as snack items, or as an additional purchase as well as the DVD.
 
I

indie85

Banned
quest said:
Last time I looked the vast majority of HD-TVs including both of mine are not 1080p. I don't really feel like paying for something I will not use. I would gladly welcome a 2.0 1080i/720p blu player that was 199 or less. Also 2.0 adds ethernet which with firmare updates is must of me. I don't feel like scowering the net for an iso then download/burn to disc it to play a new movie that does not work. I would rather push a button and the player do all the work.
Click to expand...
uhhh, last time i checked, my blu ray movies looked just fine on my 1080i tv :lol
 
M3Freak

M3Freak

Banned
I found out last night from my bro-in-law. I never doubted that BD would eventually win, and it's all thanks to the PS3.
 
V

VictimOfGrief

Banned
DoctorWho said:
Your hate for the five stages is hilarious. :lol :lol
Click to expand...
No I don't hate them. I find it funny that you keep bringing them up in each reply to somehow validate that you thought of them first and how it's a cookie cutter definition of everyone's reaction.... namely mine. get over yourself.
 
Y

YYZ

Junior Member
People with foresight saw the PS3 being a dominant force in Blu-Ray's push. It's not winning the console war by a long shot, but when compared to other HD players, it is selling way too much to think the competition has a shot. Combine that with solid studio exclusivity (not the ideal, they still don't have that yet with Paramount and Universal sitting on the other side) and there you have the inevitable victory.

I understand the mentality of the HD-DVD owners, once you invested in something, some part of you is tied to that product (for most people anyway). I envy the HD-DVD owners that heard of this news and had no negative feelings. Buying a PS3 at launch left me with some regret but only because I could have made a good deal of profit on it combined with the amount I've used it for the past year. I know 2008 is the good year though.
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
VictimOfGrief said:
No I don't hate them. I find it funny that you keep bringing them up in each reply to somehow validate that you thought of them first and how it's a cookie cutter definition of everyone's reaction.... namely mine. get over yourself.
Click to expand...
:lol :lol

I'm only joking around. You're taking my comments far too seriously. Look back a few pages to see why I brought them up again:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9187192&postcount=26633

Okay, I just visited the HD DVD forum, at AVS, and here's the first post from the first thread listed in that forum.

Quote:
I'm posting this so it can help those with large hd-dvd collections or hardware

The Five Stages of the Grief
Grief can occur as the result of a number of different events – someone we know dies, a relationship ends, we lose a pet, we have to give up a long held goal in our life, or any other number of situations. But there is one common denominator in all of these events, and that is loss. Grief is a process of physical, emotional, social, and cognitive reactions to loss. The grieving process is often a hard one to work through. It requires patience with ourselves and with others. Although responses to loss are as diverse as the people experiencing it, patterns or stages that are commonly experienced have emerged. These stages were identified and named by Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. Knowing these five stages can sometimes help in coping with the process of grief and recognizing that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It should be noted that although most people experience all of the following stages, they do not experience them with the same duration, or in the same order, or with the same intensity. It is a very unique process.

Denial
Denial is generally the first stage in the grief process. It can be experienced as numbness or avoidance or isolation or direct denial. It is a stage in which we just cannot believe that the loss is true. We may tell ourselves that it did not really happen. It does not seem real.

Anger
Another stage of grief is anger. At this point, we have gotten past some or all of the denial, but now we are angry about the loss. We may want to take it out on something or someone, or we may just express our anger in ways that are familiar to us.

Bargaining
In the bargaining stage, we are trying to come up with ways to get back what we lost or just find someone or something to blame. Common thoughts include "If only I had just …." or "I wish we could have…." or "Maybe if I do this…." In the case of a lost relationship, we might actually bargain with the person we lost in an effort to get them back. "If I change my behavior, will you come back?"

Depression
The depression stage is just as it sounds, a time of sadness. It generally follows denial, anger, and bargaining when we feel helpless and hopeless to stop the loss. It may include crying, withdrawal, or any other way that expresses sadness.

Acceptance
The final stage is acceptance. Most often we have gone through all of the above stages and in many cases cycled through the above stages more than once before getting to acceptance. At this stage, we have (to some extent) reorganized ourselves and our thinking to incorporate the loss. This does not mean that we no longer get sad about the loss from time to time, but the sadness is now a part of us and does not keep us from functioning normally most of the time. Over time, the intensity of the sadness generally diminishes, but may never entirely go away.

Armed with the knowledge of these five stages, we can now better understand ourselves and others who are going through the grief process.

-------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly, this was the OP's first and only post on AVS, and s/he has a join date of Dec 2006. Guess this news was big enough to bring him/her out of the woodworks.

Now, I know this is pure comedy to some(most) people, but having read through each heading, I recognize that people on this very forum are going through these stages. Most important, is the first stage, denial. This may explain some of the irrational posts from some members who supported HD DVD, and apparently driven some to form radical militias. I kid, Nicodimas! Seriously, though, while some members are having meltdowns, let them. This news is truly emotionally disturbing for some people. Blowing-up in an Internet forum is a better way of dealing with emotional distraught, than walking into Best Buy and knocking over a Blu-ray rack. If someone, while letting off steam, somehow crosses the line, than that's what mods are for.

All that said, though, overall, this thread has remained largely civil. I applaud you, Gaf!
Click to expand...
 
K

Kolgar

Member
I hope someone writes a book about this whole thing soon. I mean, this story has been epic from start to finish, and its most recent act has been as climactic as anything we could have hoped for.

And we probably don't know the half of it. According to some insiders, Warner's decision came right down to the wire and in fact may have been about to go the other way.

Maybe we'll never know the full story, but if anyone ever made a movie about it, I'd definitely buy it on Blu-ray. :lol

I'm also impressed by the fact that, in the end, Sony's gigantic gamble with PS3 has paid off and its decision to use Blu-ray has been vindicated.

It was a huge risk, and it's been messy along the way, but the outcome is great for them and the result is a story that marketing classes will explore for decades to come.

As for downloads. DO NOT WANT. Personally speaking.
 
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