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[Mifune]

That would be Paramount to you, am I wrong? I haven't noticed many remastered oldies that would benefit much to be viewed in HD... then again, I bought Coming to America and Trading Places in BRD the week Paramount made the switch!

Yeah, Paramount has an awesome back catalog. The thought of The Godfather or Apocalypse Now in HD is almost too much to take. I'm definitely hoping they at the very least go neutral very soon.

WB has The Searchers, Casablanca (HD-DVD only boo), Robin Hood (same), The Wild Bunch, and the Kubricks. And supposedly they all look fantastic in HD. I can only vouch for 2001, which is so jaw-droppingly awesome that it has inspired me to mention it in every other post here on GAF. Ha! Did it again!

 

[kaching]

bah, constantly getting beaten to my own responses today.

I know we live in a consumption-driven society but the option to abstain really IS an option, guys, believe it or not. Esp. when it comes to luxury products.

 

[djtortilla]

choice is great to have

get a 360 cause its cheaper and has the games you want, or get a ps3 if that floats your boat.

personally i would prefer not having a choice, i would prefer one console that has all the games i want. I think everybody would win with that situation.

Oh, but what if a evil company is in control and screws the consumers.

Microsoft has that with Windows right now, but people are dealing with it.


I wish there not was a format war in the first place. I don't care if it was bluray or hddvd that won.

But bluray had the advantage from the start, and hopefully we can soon forget that 2 formats existed.

 

[borghe]

More people chose to abstain from the HD-DVD catalog than from the Blu-ray catalog. Even more people have skipped out on both.

lol... I can get behind this statement.. however it hardly paints a pretty picture. I guess that's kind of my point. Either way we were all losers during this war. Just the people who went blu-ray only didn't lose as much as those who backed hd-dvd. and those of us who just wanted to enjoy hd movies paid through the nose to do it. :lol

I know we live in a consumption-driven society but the option to abstain really IS an option, guys, believe it or not. Esp. when it comes to luxury products.

I don't agree with this. abstaining in high consumerism societies, ESPECIALLY in america and ESPECIALLY among the mass market, is usually the result of lack of finances or incentive vs. an informed decision.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

If HD-DVD software had sold better than Blu-Ray throughout most of '07, are we saying Warner would have jumped to being HD-DVD exclusive? I think not.

I know we live in a consumption-driven society but the option to abstain really IS an option, guys, believe it or not.

That is were we disagree.

 

[Oni Jazar]

and if wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets in the sea.

 

[Zombie James]

If HD-DVD software had sold better than Blu-Ray throughout most of '07, are we saying Warner would have jumped to being HD-DVD exclusive? I think not.

I think so. It's all about sales and where they can make the most money going forward.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

lol... I can get behind this statement.. however it hardly paints a pretty picture. I guess that's kind of my point. Either way we were all losers during this war. Just the people who went blu-ray only didn't lose as much as those who backed hd-dvd. and those of us who just wanted to enjoy hd movies paid through the nose to do it. :lol

We're not losers, we just don't get instant gratification.

There's no moral imperative on either side. It's how new technology gets into people's hands. It was what, 2 years before Fox started releasing DVDs? Most people don't know that, because they weren't early adopters.

This is the proce we pay to get into a format early. Dry spells, incomplete support, firmware upgrades, high prices. It's not because companies are evil and greedy. It's just how it works.

Now, for evil and greedy, look at DRM for music, or the sorts of things cell phones *could* do but can't for whatever reason.

 

[ManaByte]

FYI, Fry's is selling FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer on BRD for $13.99

 

[Opus Angelorum]

There's no moral imperative on either side. It's how new technology gets into people's hands.

Good point.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

If HD-DVD software had sold better than Blu-Ray throughout most of '07, are we saying Warner would have jumped to being HD-DVD exclusive? I think not.

Why wouldn't they? They've gone on record as saying the only way they think they can move more catalog titles is with advanced features. They showed an early preference for HD-DVD as a result. Sales trends are about the only thing that's gotten them to budge at all.

 

[borghe]

yeah, but I generally fall under the belief that as an early adopter (even though this time I wasn't that early), I am always bound to lose. like you said.. high prices, broken system, feature-lacking releases, etc. this stuff usually sucks to deal with and go through (thus the loser part). however in the end, being able to have fun with the technology 1-3 years before the mass market is worth it, thus I don't mind.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

yeah, but I generally fall under the belief that as an early adopter (even though this time I wasn't that early), I am always bound to lose. like you said.. high prices, broken system, feature-lacking releases, etc. this stuff usually sucks to deal with and go through (thus the loser part). however in the end, being able to have fun with the technology 1-3 years before the mass market is worth it, thus I don't mind.

Exactly. I know that *eventually* I'll get everything. Either it was going to be a dual format future (ick) or this result-- but eventually, I'd get my Big Lebowski as well as my Casino Royale. My question was how long was I willing to wait, how much risk was I willing to take on.

 

[Laurent]

Now that I bought Live Free or Die Hard in BRD, how long will I have to wait until the innevitable UNRATED edition comes out in Blu-ray (forcing me to buy it twice)?

 

[kaching]

I don't agree with this. abstaining in high consumerism societies, ESPECIALLY in america and ESPECIALLY among the mass market, is usually the result of lack of finances or incentive vs. an informed decision.

Whether people typically exercise the choice is irrelevant, borghe. It is still a viable choice available to everyone and can certainly be exercised as part of an informed decision.

 

[VanMardigan]

Did they announce a price for that Funai? That should hit $199 pretty soon. What about 2.0 players? Were any announced?

I'm trying to stay away from this thread because I can't believe how much sour grapes there are on the red side (and not by the typical regulars). Unless you bought into the format in 2006, you bought an HD DVD player when it was already behind in software sales and you've NEVER seen it take not even a WEEK of sales, ANYWHERE in the world. That means we all took a gamble on it to enjoy the movies. The movies were great, the format had some awesome stuff going for it, but now the seemingly inevitable has happened.

I think part of the problem is that Blu Ray really doesn't have any affordable options like HD DVD did in terms of players, so a lot of folks who picked up the format for a very low price are now facing the prospect of having to sit out until probably late this year before they're able to get back into the HDM game. This is why I hope that Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks continue to pump out titles all year long. I was fortunate that I was able to squeeze a Ps3 into my budget, but otherwise, I'd have no option right now but to continue with just the exclusive HD DVD studios and SD DVD movies. There's no way I would want to jump on a gimped 1.0 player coming from the HD DVD side, were ALL players are the Blu Ray equivalent of 2.0

So while I can understand some of the frustration, talk of digital downloads and Warner's motivations (which are obviously software sales AND a moneyhat) just seem like needless bitterness. I think Toshiba got about as far as they could go without the majority of studios and CE support, but its time to unify behind Blu Ray. I hope the Blu Ray group focuses as much energy as possible to drive down their player prices and allow more people to just stop whining and get themselves a Blu Ray player. I guarantee you there would only be a tiny fraction of bitter tears here if there was a Blu Ray player on Amazon right now at $179 with free movies.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Now that I bought Live Free or Die Hard in BRD, how long will I have to wait until the innevitable UNRATED edition comes out in Blu-ray (forcing me to buy it twice)?

The unrated version is available on Region 3 at the minute, and apparently the additions are very minor (more blood).

 

[Laurent]

The unrated version is available on Region 3 at the minute, and apparently the additions are very minor (more blood).

But we get the full Yippie Kay Yay or not?

How about the line from the trailer where he says "I will kill this guy and get my daughter, or get my daughter and kill this guy... or kill all of them!" ?

 

[ManaByte]

Is Shoot Em' Up any good? Saw it at BB today and may get it tomorrow with 3:10.

 

[Xater]

The unrated version is available on Region 3 at the minute, and apparently the additions are very minor (more blood).

Well I would prefer the Unrated cut that's why I am still waiting out. And as always for stuff like this schnittberiche.com is your friend:

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittberichte_special/diehard4.php

Love the website for comparsion of different cuts.

@Laurent: You get the full one liner.

 

[Laurent]

Unrated: "I'm gonna kill this motherfucker and get my daughter back. Or go get my daughter and kill this motherfucker."

Thanks Xater!

...I don't see the Unrated BRD version anywhere in Europe...?

 

[OokieSpookie]

Did they announce a price for that Funai? That should hit $199 pretty soon. What about 2.0 players? Were any announced?

I'm trying to stay away from this thread because I can't believe how much sour grapes there are on the red side (and not by the typical regulars). Unless you bought into the format in 2006, you bought an HD DVD player when it was already behind in software sales and you've NEVER seen it take not even a WEEK of sales, ANYWHERE in the world. That means we all took a gamble on it to enjoy the movies. The movies were great, the format had some awesome stuff going for it, but now the seemingly inevitable has happened.

I think part of the problem is that Blu Ray really doesn't have any affordable options like HD DVD did in terms of players, so a lot of folks who picked up the format for a very low price are now facing the prospect of having to sit out until probably late this year before they're able to get back into the HDM game. This is why I hope that Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks continue to pump out titles all year long. I was fortunate that I was able to squeeze a Ps3 into my budget, but otherwise, I'd have no option right now but to continue with just the exclusive HD DVD studios and SD DVD movies. There's no way I would want to jump on a gimped 1.0 player coming from the HD DVD side, were ALL players are the Blu Ray equivalent of 2.0

So while I can understand some of the frustration, talk of digital downloads and Warner's motivations (which are obviously software sales AND a moneyhat) just seem like needless bitterness. I think Toshiba got about as far as they could go without the majority of studios and CE support, but its time to unify behind Blu Ray. I hope the Blu Ray group focuses as much energy as possible to drive down their player prices and allow more people to just stop whining and get themselves a Blu Ray player. I guarantee you there would only be a tiny fraction of bitter tears here if there was a Blu Ray player on Amazon right now at $179 with free movies.

(Not jumping on you Van your post just brought this to mind)

Why can I not see one person admit that Toshiba's suicide price dive fucked the format as a whole in many ways.
It did not give them the win, it did not even give them the lead and stand alone players for blu even started to outsell them YET people STILL want to say that clearance priced players make all of the difference.
If people who went all gung ho for the $99 player are all sad, too bad.
Blu backers from day one said that the people who will dive in for that are not the type to buy movies on a consistant basis for the current movie prices and we were completely correct.
I will guarantee that most have less than five movies in their collection other than the fourty some odd free ones they got.
(I do not want to hear one single person try to chime in and say that it can not be the same because they buy thirty movies a week or some similar tripe)
And as far as ALL players were the equivalent of 2.0 ..except for that whole lack of 1080p and even more importantly 1080p/24 support...

 

[Xater]

Thanks Xater!

...I don't see the Unrated BRD version anywhere in Europe...?

It's not out here. That's just a comparison done with the DVDs.

Big Edit: Total fuck up on my side it's not actually out in Australia.

 

[Laurent]

It's not out here. That's just a comparison done with the DVDs.

Big Edit: Total fuck up on my side it's not actually out in Australia.

I think Opus was talking about the DVD Unrated version... I don't think that the Unrated version of Die Hard 4.0 (or Live Free or Die Hard) exists on Blu-ray.

 

[dallow_bg]

Sony Pictures today showcased upcoming Blu-ray interactive features for their titles. One feature will allow viewers to send a ring tone to their phone from the movie. Additionally, PSP owners will be happy to hear that a portable copy will be available on the disc encoded specifically for the PSP. Also shown was a Men In Black network trivia game. More later.

from Blu-ray.com

Yay! Sony didn't abandon this idea.

 

[Xater]

I think Opus was talking about the DVD Unrated version... I don't think that the Unrated version of Die Hard 4.0 (or Live Free or Die Hard) exists on Blu-ray.

Yes that's what I was just realizing. :lol

But I guess we will see the unrated version on BD this year.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I think Opus was talking about the DVD Unrated version... I don't think that the Unrated version of Die Hard 4.0 (or Live Free or Die Hard) exists on Blu-ray.

Yeah sorry, I should have clarified that.

 

[VanMardigan]

*snip*

Honestly, I think we'll be (mostly) fine by this fall. I was disappointed by Sharp's announcement ($700 for a Blu Ray player in 2008???), but the Phillips deck at $349 MSRP and the Funai are steps in the right direction. I expect both of these decks to be at around $199 by the fall. Probably even the Samsung 4th gen too.

The Samsung duo at $599 also is good news. So while I wish I could have those prices NOW (so I can get myself a Blu player for my birthday this Sunday), I know we'll get there relatively soon.

I won't blame Toshiba for getting us used to cheap standalones any more than I'll blame Sony for spoiling us with BOGOs.

 

[Laurent]

Sony Pictures today showcased upcoming Blu-ray interactive features for their titles. One feature will allow viewers to send a ring tone to their phone from the movie. Additionally, PSP owners will be happy to hear that a portable copy will be available on the disc encoded specifically for the PSP. Also shown was a Men In Black network trivia game. More later.

Interesting concept. If a portable format is systematically available with Blu-ray discs, then it will make life easier for iPod/iPhone/PSP owners everywhere...

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Interesting concept. If a portable format is systematically available with Blu-ray discs, then it will make life easier for iPod/iPhone/PSP owners everywhere...

To me this suggests that even Sony have realised that UMD is not a viable format, nor is the PSP secure enough to stop piracy.

 

[Suikoguy]

The portable copy on disc is a genius idea

 

[borghe]

Why can I not see one person admit that Toshiba's suicide price dive fucked the format as a whole in many ways.
It did not give them the win, it did not even give them the lead and stand alone players for blu even started to outsell them YET people STILL want to say that clearance priced players make all of the difference.
If people who went all gung ho for the $99 player are all sad, too bad.
Blu backers from day one said that the people who will dive in for that are not the type to buy movies on a consistant basis for the current movie prices and we were completely correct.
I will guarantee that most have less than five movies in their collection other than the fourty some odd free ones they got.
(I do not want to hear one single person try to chime in and say that it can not be the same because they buy thirty movies a week or some similar tripe)

two responses for you. first, I think it's always been known in the tech savvy mainstream that Sony has wanted the PS3 to be the preeminent and lowest priced BRD player. I really think it was Toshiba's aggressive player pricing that has seen us get $299 BRD players this early, despite the PS3 still costing $400. So that is what their rapid price reductions (including to $199 for almost all the holidays) brought to the table.

As far as movie buying habits go, this is a common misconception of the hardcore. Yes, the hardcore movie buyer buys 1-5 titles a week. But how many of those are out there? If there are 500K hardcore movie buyers out there, that's 500K-2500K movies being sold to this group a week for a massive 2M-10M movies a month. Very impressive. But what happens when you instead get J6P who is only buying 1-2 movies a month. Not very impressive until you consider there are 20M of those J6P's propping up 20M-40M units of sales a month.

The mainstream markets have never boomed based on the hardcore market. It is J6P with his casual buying habits that have always broken the markets open. While their buying habits are much more casual than a hardcore adopter, there are so many more of them that it more than makes up for lack of individual purchases.

As for your guarantee, that would be a tough guarantee to back. Even my mom, the most casual of buyer, has probably close to a dozen movies on her shelf from over the past 4 or 5 years... and she is probably the most casual buyer out there a bit outside the 18-45 major target demographic.

from Blu-ray.com

Yay! Sony didn't abandon this idea.

I've been dying for this. Hopefully it is either DRM-free or easily hacked so it can play on any H.263/.264 compliant device (Re: ipod)

 

[mckmas8808]

CES 2008 HD movies!!!

Oh what do we have here?

So I guess that says it all. How can Universal and Paramount not jump out?

 

[Laurent]

The first pictures MUST have been taken before the booth opened... ?_?

 

[ManaByte]

The first pictures MUST have been taken before the booth opened... ?_?

Judging from the site those came from, that is probably the most likely explanation.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

The first pictures MUST have been taken before the booth opened...

Yeah I think comparisons like this are a little disingenuous.

 

[dallow_bg]

Were Gates' comments about BD and HD DVD posted?

Warner Brothers said last week it was backing Blu-ray exclusively. Will Microsoft remain committed to the HD DVD format even if it appears that the media companies are backing Blu-ray?

Certainly we supported both Blu-ray and HD DVD as Windows peripherals. The last announcement was Paramount opting for HD DVD and now this one is going the other way. I still think a format battle is going on there. Our contribution is the HDi Interactive format piece has been really well received. We hope to see that used broadly. I think the real competitor in the long run is digital (video) download. Just like in music, it is going to be the biggest of the three.

You kind of sound agnostic about the formats.

No, not really. We have definitely worked with HD DVD in a very strong fashion. Our codecs and HDi are available on the other format and we are a leader in digital download so we have some involvement in all three approaches. In the long run, people don’t want physical media. You don’t say to yourself, what’s the format battle after CD. If someone tried to introduce a new music format, you’d laugh and say ‘well isn’t that my phone, my iPod and my Zune?’ And you’d be right

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/01/gates-goodbye-at-ces-celebrity-video-no-news.html

 

[BojTrek]

It is funny though...

 

[Kolgar]

Why can I not see one person admit that Toshiba's suicide price dive fucked the format as a whole in many ways.
It did not give them the win, it did not even give them the lead and stand alone players for blu even started to outsell them YET people STILL want to say that clearance priced players make all of the difference.

Well, I'm not sure Toshiba had any other option. They needed to try and counter the PS3 Effect and at the time, I too thought their best and only chance was to drive hardware adoption quickly through low pricing.

Of course, the risk is and was that the kind of people who would buy into a format for $100-200 are not the same ravenous movie buyers who would pay $500 for a player. But again, I think it was the only chance they had to drive adoption and try to sway another studio to their side.

Studio support decided this war, and unfortunately for HD DVD, those cards were stacked against them from the get-go. Combine that with the overwhelming dominance of Blu-ray at B&M retail, and the current situation is the result.

I tip my hat to Toshiba, though. They put up one heck of a scrappy fight even if they did lose in the end.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Van, as much grief as we may have traded, props to you for no sour grapes. Really, the complainers are somewhat minor compared to the number of posters, and you are right, it's not the regualars.

Borghe, there's a middle ground between hardcore and bargain hunters. I think the point is that the $99 price (and to a lesser extent, the $199 price) didn't bring in people looking to buy a regular flow of movies. Not at a hardcore level, obviously, but even at a normal-person level. Anectodal evidence time-- one of my employee's mother bought an HD-DVD player. All she knew was a) it was fancy new tech b) it was cheap and c) it was part of Wal*Mart's big sale. I don't think she's even hooked it up yet.

If you give something to somebody for cheap enough, they don't value it.

 

[AstroLad]

In the long run, people don’t want physical media. You don’t say to yourself, what’s the format battle after CD. If someone tried to introduce a new music format, you’d laugh and say ‘well isn’t that my phone, my iPod and my Zune?’ And you’d be right.

Right on Bill.

 

[polyh3dron]

Is Shoot Em' Up any good? Saw it at BB today and may get it tomorrow with 3:10.

Yes get it. Also get Sunshine.

And add Bill Gates to the "bu bu but DIGITAL DOWNLOADZ" camp. :lol 640k :lol

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

so, when can we expect more great catalog content? I want Dark City! (the original Matrix)

 

[Laurent]

so, when can we expect more great catalog content? I want Dark City! (the original Matrix)

Which one? I bet you are talking about the first one...

 

[Zombie James]

You don’t say to yourself, what’s the format battle after CD. If someone tried to introduce a new music format, you’d laugh and say ‘well isn’t that my phone, my iPod and my Zune?’ And you’d be right

CDs are as good as you can get in the consumer space (uncompressed stereo PCM), and high-end audio guys have their own battle (DVD-Audio vs SACD).

And actually, CDs vs digital downloads is a good example going against digital distribution. People have more than enough bandwidth for music, yet these companies still compress their content to shit, and using interior codecs on top of that (in before "lol 128kbit/sec AAC is good enough").

 

[borghe]

Borghe, there's a middle ground between hardcore and bargain hunters.

I agree, and I think that the casual consumer who buys 1-2 movies a month is pretty representative of that middle ground. I am also guessing that the group more than outweighs the purchasing power of the hardcore group. I don't think either of those two assumptions are at all outrageous.

I also don't see the $99 pricepoint as a bargain hunter price point. Not saying there aren't those that jumped on it based on the value alone... but really how many people out there are going to jump on something as niche as an hd-dvd player without the intention of hooking it up? A few? Sure. Most? Probably not.

Anyway, like I said I believe it's because of the $99 "fire sales" and the $199 holiday pricing that brought name brand BRD players down now to $299. I mean look, barebones players are STILL being announced over $400. that's at least something to be grateful to HD-DVD for if in fact that's the case.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

:lol sorry, forgot about the one from 1950.

 

[AstroLad]

And actually, CDs vs digital downloads is a good example going against digital distribution. People have more than enough bandwidth for music, yet these companies still compress their content to shit, and using interior codecs on top of that (in before "lol 128kbit/sec AAC is good enough").

Well I don't think he's talking about quality, just market penetration. No doubt there are many more obstacles to video DD than audio DD, but I welcome some sort of DD future. I buy most of my music through iTunes or Amazon now and I love it. Hopefully they can come up with similarly good systems for video (and hopefully the video would be compatible with portable devices as well. The argument always boils down to how they can pull it off since it's quite different from audio DD.

We'll see, but the people who were adamant about the relatively low quality of most audio DD preventing it from getting any sort of mainstream acceptance were proven wrong a while ago. Not to say that that success necessarily means that mainstream video DD in the next decade is a foregone conclusion, but it should be interesting. It's clear why Bill is citing to that possibility; it's a useful fanboy fallback position in this WAR (i.e., say that there was no "loss" since really there's nothing worthwhile being competed for) and obviously MS has been eyeing DD for quite some time now.

 

[polyh3dron]

so, when can we expect more great catalog content? I want Dark City! (the original Matrix)

Well, New Line JUST started releasing in high def and they own Dark City, so we'll see. Personally I don't think it'll be a priority for them, they've got a bunch of titles that are much more marketable for the high def market such as LOTR, The Crow, Austin Powers, Blow, etc etc.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Did they announce a price for that Funai? That should hit $199 pretty soon. What about 2.0 players? Were any announced?

-No price as far as I know. Very little price talk this year on any of this stuff.

-Yeah. A few. Sony, Sammy, Pio, ect.

I'm trying to stay away from this thread because I can't believe how much sour grapes there are on the red side (and not by the typical regulars). Unless you bought into the format in 2006, you bought an HD DVD player when it was already behind in software sales and you've NEVER seen it take not even a WEEK of sales, ANYWHERE in the world. That means we all took a gamble on it to enjoy the movies. The movies were great, the format had some awesome stuff going for it, but now the seemingly inevitable has happened.

Agreed.

I think part of the problem is that Blu Ray really doesn't have any affordable options like HD DVD did in terms of players, so a lot of folks who picked up the format for a very low price are now facing the prospect of having to sit out until probably late this year before they're able to get back into the HDM game. This is why I hope that Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks continue to pump out titles all year long. I was fortunate that I was able to squeeze a Ps3 into my budget, but otherwise, I'd have no option right now but to continue with just the exclusive HD DVD studios and SD DVD movies. There's no way I would want to jump on a gimped 1.0 player coming from the HD DVD side, were ALL players are the Blu Ray equivalent of 2.0

Sony announced a $200 BD-Rom drive for desktops and HTPCs for release within a month. Requires a graphics card with HDMI out. Should street price at sub-$200. Comes with expandable/upgradable player software. (I'd imagine upgradable to 2.0) Others from other manufacturers are expected to follow soon as well.

It looks like it's a start, if you have a HTPC.


...

Sony Pictures today showcased upcoming Blu-ray interactive features for their titles. One feature will allow viewers to send a ring tone to their phone from the movie. Additionally, PSP owners will be happy to hear that a portable copy will be available on the disc encoded specifically for the PSP. Also shown was a Men In Black network trivia game. More later.

Bad. Ass.