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[DarkJediKnight]

I don't expect a new $199 anytime soon. They have to make money. Or they'll just move onto a new format where they can. I think 2008 is going to be a year where you won't see a lot of price reductions until Q4 when they need to unload the players. I think 2009 will start seeing $299 MSRP players and streeting at about $250.

BD will always have 2 profiles and pricepoints: 1.1 for the casual watcher, and 2.0live for the enthusiasts.

The real crime is Fox charging $39.95 for catalogs.

 

[maharg]

I love how back and forth that statement goes.
I mean, I thought the PS3 didn't matter right?
STAND ALONES are what people want, PS3 owners do not watch movies on it after all.
Wait, not stand alones but dedicated players...that is what people want and the PS3 is a gaming system and people do not want a format backed by a gaming system.

Eh. I don't think either side can be singled out in terms of flip flopping on this point. When HD people touted winning standalone sales, it was all "PS3 owners aren't buying many discs, but the sheer number of them out there outweigh it." Now that BD has beaten HDDVD and needs to gain mainstream legitimacy, it's all about the content.

Here's the truth. If content was king, major HDDVD exclusive releases would have done better than they did. Every time an exclusive release failed to gain traction on HDDVD was a nail in the coffin of the idea that it was content, not the PS3, that was killing HDDVD. There's also the fact that the effect was an almost instantaneous turnaround in software sales when the PS3 was released, and not a slow rise.

This is really simple scientific process here. Make a theory, make a prediction, and judge the success of the theory on the accuracy of the prediction.

BD won because it got in the hands of third-tier buyers faster. HD tried to do it with lower prices, BD tried to do it with PS3. One succeeded, the other did not. Simplest explanation wins. End of story.

BD will always have 2 profiles and pricepoints: 1.1 for the casual watcher, and 2.0live for the enthusiasts.

I though the real enthusiasts didn't want online features? Seriously, if 2.0 doesn't take over completely, expect absolutely nothing to use it. May as well have expected games to use the memory pack on the N64.

 

[Raistlin]

uh i'll say i aint selling it or send the money back to his paypal.

You may want to read the rules for ebay. Doing this a couple times - no more account irrc.

who cares if someone bids, i should always have a way out of an auction.

:lol I have no words ...

 

[Raistlin]

I though the real enthusiasts didn't want online features? Seriously, if 2.0 doesn't take over completely, expect absolutely nothing to use it. May as well have expected games to use the memory pack on the N64.

While it may not get pushed all that much, I expect there will be plenty of titles that use 2.0 features.


It actually benefits the studios, since they'll be able to refresh ads for new content with it

 

[MaX_PL]

You may want to read the rules for ebay. Doing this a couple times - no more account irrc.




:lol I have no words ...

oh well... :lol

i'm not gonna sell something if i dont think the price is right.

i am a 8 feedback ebay user. bid with caution...:lol

 

[captive]

oh well... :lol

i'm not gonna sell something if i dont think the price is right.

i am a 8 feedback ebay user. bid with caution...:lol

Its called a reserve price, good lord.

 

[Raistlin]

Its called a reserve price, good lord.

.



seriously ...

 

[Gary Whitta]

The real crime is Fox charging $39.95 for catalogs.

Seriously. This is a real turn-off for me, especially when the regular DVD version is often available for literally a quarter of the price and often with better special features due to bare-bones BD releases paving the way for inevitable double-dips later.

If it wasn't for Amazon pricing and other deals (BOGOs etc) I wouldn't have half the collection I do now.

 

[OokieSpookie]

I have never paid msrp no matter if I am buying online or at Best Buy or Moviestop.

 

[MechDX]

Interesting comments:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=518915&postcount=14

Toshiba still feel they can make a significant dent in Blu-ray, forcing other companies to put HD DVD legacy playback in their devices as standard (it's all about the royalties...).

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=519649&postcount=18

Originally Posted by jason_grumpy
Max,

Are you implying that Toshiba has the gall to force Blu standalone's to release only dual format machine for royalties, or that they will force existing DVD manufactures to make all future machines from here on out as HD-DVD players?


That one.

So let me get this right....

Toshiba is trying to combine DVD and HD DVD standards into one. Thus making any CE releasing a device that is "DVD player capable" also HD DVD capable?

If true and Toshiba somehow pulls this off I just cant wait for Sonys reaction.:lol

 

[avaya]

Interesting comments:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=518915&postcount=14



http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=519649&postcount=18



So let me get this right....

Toshiba is trying to combine DVD and HD DVD standards into one. Thus making any CE releasing a device that is "DVD player capable" also HD DVD capable?

If true and Toshiba somehow pulls this off I just cant wait for Sonys reaction.

This is Toshiba's only play. It likely won't work. The more they continue this ploy the more political face they lose in Japan and risk making enemies with Matsushita for a very long time.

 

[Snah]

uh i'll say i aint selling it or send the money back to his paypal.

who cares if someone bids, i should always have a way out of an auction.

anyway, i sold the stuff anyway. i'm done with HD movies for now. will wait a year and see how this digital download vs. bluray things plays out.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

uh i'll say i aint selling it or send the money back to his paypal.

who cares if someone bids, i should always have a way out of an auction.

anyway, i sold the stuff anyway. i'm done with HD movies for now. will wait a year and see how this digital download vs. bluray things plays out.

let me help you with that argument: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229116

 

[maharg]

Toshiba can no more 'force' a change to DVD or HD-DVD's spec than Sony can to BD's. If anything like that happens, it'll be as part of a concession package or something.

 

[Forsete]

If true and Toshiba somehow pulls this off I just cant wait for Sonys reaction.:lol

Uh... yeah. Toshiba is going beyond pathetic.

I hope the BDA cock-blocks them out of making BD-players.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Interesting comments:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=518915&postcount=14



http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=519649&postcount=18



So let me get this right....

Toshiba is trying to combine DVD and HD DVD standards into one. Thus making any CE releasing a device that is "DVD player capable" also HD DVD capable?

If true and Toshiba somehow pulls this off I just cant wait for Sonys reaction.:lol

Anybody still think Toshiba's in this for the consumer?

 

[Kittonwy]

Uh... yeah. Toshiba is going beyond pathetic.

I hope the BDA cock-blocks them out of making BD-players.

Toshiba should concede now and hopefully BDA will throw Toshiba a bone, if they drag this out, they'll get nothing from BDA. The longer it drags on, the stronger BDA's position will be and the harder it will be for Toshiba to negotiate anything, they should make a graceful exit while they can.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Interesting comments:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=518915&postcount=14



http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=519649&postcount=18



So let me get this right....

Toshiba is trying to combine DVD and HD DVD standards into one. Thus making any CE releasing a device that is "DVD player capable" also HD DVD capable?

If true and Toshiba somehow pulls this off I just cant wait for Sonys reaction.:lol

Anything that Toshiba wants to do with DVD needs to be approved by the DVD Consortium. A lot of the major Blu-ray players are part of that consortium and while they have been abstaining on voting with anything HD DVD (except for Disney), no way in hell would they let that pass.

 

[Nicodimas]

Actually all Toshiba has to do to truly win is force studios to put movies on HD, who want to continue to make DVD releases is publish there movies on Hd-dvd. Don't make movies on HD-DVD- no dvd release for you. Would be a great way to force people to go HD too .

This would effectively cause the HD format to survive as everything would be HD/dvd. But I am in favor of a competitive marketplace so this would not really help either.

 

[Snah]

Actually all Toshiba has to do to truly win is force studios to put movies on HD, who want to continue to make DVD releases is publish there movies on Hd-dvd. Don't make movies on HD-DVD- no dvd release for you. Would be a great way to force people to go HD too .

This would effectively cause the HD format to survive as everything would be HD/dvd. But I am in favor of a competitive marketplace so this would not really help either.

They don't have the power to do that.

You guys are getting crazy.

 

[VanMardigan]

Is it me, or is everyone else just not reading that properly. Tosh wants to drag it out so that CE's all push dual format machines instead of Blu only. That's the option that's bolded, not the other one.

Maybe the BDA just concedes some minor royalties and make Toshiba go away. Or maybe they just wait it out and let Toshiba decide on its own to give up.

 

[avaya]

Is it me, or is everyone else just not reading that properly. Tosh wants to drag it out so that CE's all push dual format machines instead of Blu only. That's the option that's bolded, not the other one.

Maybe the BDA just concedes some minor royalties and make Toshiba go away. Or maybe they just wait it out and let Toshiba decide on its own to give up.

They wait it out. Toshiba gets nothing. They burnt their bridges a long time ago on this front.

 

[Christopher]

ugh just fuck off Toshiba - stop prolonging this.

well I guess at this point it's Universal and Paramount who are prolonging this...although 85:15 isn't proloning anything.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Actually all Toshiba has to do to truly win is force studios to put movies on HD, who want to continue to make DVD releases is publish there movies on Hd-dvd. Don't make movies on HD-DVD- no dvd release for you. Would be a great way to force people to go HD too .

This would effectively cause the HD format to survive as everything would be HD/dvd. But I am in favor of a competitive marketplace so this would not really help either.

It is physically impossible for that to happen, so take the dream and bury it.
They do not even have the capability to press 1/20th of the quantity that it would take to do that and that does not go into the cost effective impossibility.
Not only that but Toshiba is not in the position to "force" studios to do a thing, they need to carry a suitcase of cash to even get a meeting these days.

 

[purnoman3000]

Even if it were possible for Toshiba to do such a thing as force HD-DVD standard as DVD standard, they would most likely have to subsidize all costs involved for CE manufacturers. They may be able to subsidize the cost of half a million players but every DVD player in the world, forget it.

 

[Darkman M]

All i need to know is when the godfather trilogy will be on blu-ray? Thats the first blu-ray i buy full price no questions asked.

 

[avaya]

All i need to know is when the godfather trilogy will be on blu-ray? Thats the first blu-ray i buy full price no questions asked.

When Paramount come. When the market reaches a suitable size.

At least 3yrs.

 

[SRG01]

If Toshiba manages to force DVD and HDDVD specs to merge, you can say goodbye to future DVD sales.

The DVD spec is fully mature. You can't expect the consumer to take a merged spec lying down.

 

[OokieSpookie]

If Toshiba manages to force DVD and HDDVD specs to merge, you can say goodbye to future DVD sales.

The DVD spec is fully mature. You can't expect the consumer to take a merged spec lying down.

Again, it can not happen.
It is a complete impossibility, there is not even a shred of a fraction of a chance that it would even be attempted.
It is the last ditch attempt by those who refuse to give up on hd.

All max was talking about was Toshiba trying to throw enough players out there where they think that companies will see the need to keep dual format players as something worth releasing which as he and others have said himself will fail and won't happen.

 

[surazal]

Toshiba makes money off DVD royalties, so if they can't negotiate some type of royalty deal payoff from the BDA, they might decide to prolong the war as long as they can to milk the DVD money.

 

[Snah]

Toshiba makes money off DVD royalties, so if they can't negotiate some type of royalty deal payoff from the BDA, they might decide to prolong the war as long as they can to milk the DVD money.

How are *they* going to do it? Payoff studios like Universal and Paramount to just not support blu-ray?

Surely, the studios won't go along with that now. They'd only be shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Raistlin]

So let me get this right....

Toshiba is trying to combine DVD and HD DVD standards into one. Thus making any CE releasing a device that is "DVD player capable" also HD DVD capable?

If true and Toshiba somehow pulls this off I just cant wait for Sonys reaction.:lol

The quote needs to be edited. If you go to the link, the bold makes it clear what is being referred to.



In this case, the claim is that Toshiba will attempt to force CE's to be dual-player. LOL good luck with that. I'm sure they want to add more expenses :\

 

[Nicodimas]

^I agree with Onix on this.
I still think an easier option to go is merging of Hddvd/dvd disks at the same price point of Dvds with Universal and Paramount on all new releases. It would be a great advertising campaign. Granted there might be some flaws with using these disks that people have expressed, but would be fun to see what happened. Someone suggested making them 2 disk editions so nothing bad happens. Less possible conseqences then the forcing support.

 

[Raistlin]

Actually all Toshiba has to do to truly win is force studios to put movies on HD, who want to continue to make DVD releases is publish there movies on Hd-dvd. Don't make movies on HD-DVD- no dvd release for you. Would be a great way to force people to go HD too .

This would effectively cause the HD format to survive as everything would be HD/dvd. But I am in favor of a competitive marketplace so this would not really help either.

^I agree with Onix on this.
I still think an easier option to go is merging of Hddvd/dvd disks at the same price point of Dvds with Universal and Paramount on all new releases. It would be a great advertising campaign. Granted there might be some flaws with using these disks that people have expressed, but would be fun to see what happened. Less possible conseqences then the forcing support.

Toshiba does not have the power to do that.


And even if they did (which they don't), they would effectively destroy their future by doing so. The amount of bridge-burning would literally be second-to-none in the history of CE.

 

[border]

Interesting comments:

Toshiba is trying to combine DVD and HD DVD standards into one. Thus making any CE releasing a device that is "DVD player capable" also HD DVD capable?

If true and Toshiba somehow pulls this off I just cant wait for Sonys reaction.:lol

THIS IS IDIOCY. Try using logic for just a second - If Toshiba had the kind of pull to do something like this, why wouldn't they have done it already?

Wouldn't this essentially be the end of all our $50 DVD players? I'm sure retailers would love that.

 

[thaivo]

Is it me, or is everyone else just not reading that properly. Tosh wants to drag it out so that CE's all push dual format machines instead of Blu only. That's the option that's bolded, not the other one.

Maybe the BDA just concedes some minor royalties and make Toshiba go away. Or maybe they just wait it out and let Toshiba decide on its own to give up.

No I agree with you Van, that's how I read the news. Well, BD supporters will construe things the way they will, but what Toshiba is doing in response to Warner's move is quite smart, and reasonable.

 

[mrklaw]

Those are actually pretty helpful sites. I'll refer to those when buying discs.



When I was watching Edward Scissorhands, the image was so clear it made the makeup for the scars obvious. Also the makeup around the eyes. Especially on close ups of Depp's face, it was obvious how the makeup was applied for the scars.

see, this I don't get. Surely you have the same issue when viewing at the cinema? Whats suddenly changed?

 

[border]

No I agree with you Van, that's how I read the news. Well, BD supporters will construe things the way they will, but what Toshiba is doing in response to Warner's move is quite smart, and reasonable.

Considering that the cost of dual format machines is something to the tune of $700-800, it'd seem more like they are desperately grasping at straws than they are following a "reasonable" strategy. HD-DVD's main talking point was that it was affordable, and thus consumer friendly......and now they expect people to sign on for a HD-DVD/BluRay player that costs more than half a grand? Even in the unlikely event that they are able to hold on to their Paramount/Universal exclusives, what are the odds that people will pay such a premium price for the other non-Blu 20% of films that get released? Granted the dual players will probably drop in price, but they will probably always be above the priceline of Blu-only players.

The problem is that this was probably never planned as a contingency. I doubt any CE manufacturers really have tested, dual format players waiting-in-the-wings to roll out.

 

[Snah]

Considering that the cost of dual format machines is something to the tune of $700-800, it'd seem more like they are desperately grasping at straws than they are following a "reasonable" strategy. HD-DVD's main talking point was that it was affordable, and thus consumer friendly......and now they expect people to sign on for a HD-DVD/BluRay player that costs more than half a grand? Even in the unlikely event that they are able to hold on to their Paramount/Universal exclusives, what are the odds that people will pay such a premium price for the other 20% of films that get released?

The problem is that this was probably never planned as a contingency. I doubt any CE manufacturers really have tested dual format players waiting-in-the-wings to roll out.

Further, with Warner switching to Blu-Ray and CE sales on Blu-Ray trouncing standalone players for HD-DVD (both in terms of sales AND margin), what incentive is there for CE manufacturers to make dual format players?

With the victory of Blu-Ray, the technology in HD-DVD is not only INFERIOR, but it is redundant and only serves to increase the price of entry into the HD arena, and also alienates the largest HD userbase with the PS3.

Toshiba is FINISHED, HD-DVD fans.

 

[border]

Further, with Warner switching to Blu-Ray and CE sales on Blu-Ray trouncing standalone players for HD-DVD (both in terms of sales AND margin), what incentive is there for CE manufacturers to make dual format players?

Right now the dual format players are merely just an option for people that bet on the wrong horse, and want to cut their losses and not re-purchase their HD-DVDs in BluRay format. If the cost of re-buying your movies is greater than the difference between a BluRay player and a dual-format player it makes for a sensible purchase. But otherwise, I don't see why a consumer would care.

 

[Forsete]

DVD royalties must be a piss in the sea compared to the loss they are taking on HD-DVD right now.

 

[polyh3dron]

Fuck, Lost Season 3 on Blu looks and sounds amazing... and the SeasonPlay feature where it always picks up where you left off is the coolest feature I've ever seen in a TV show set.

I've been watching this almost non stop trying to catch up for when the new season starts.

 

[polyh3dron]

THIS IS IDIOCY.

THIS IS TOSHIBAAAAAA

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Fuck, Lost Season 3 on Blu looks and sounds amazing... and the SeasonPlay feature where it always picks up where you left off is the coolest feature I've ever seen in a TV show set.

I've been watching this almost non stop trying to catch up for when the new season starts.

I'm so jealous! How stupid is it to release a box set in Europe after the next season has already begun! I like you wanted to watch it all again as a reminder.

How do those freckles look in HD?

 

[Frankfurter]

DVD royalties must be a piss in the sea compared to the loss they are taking on HD-DVD right now.

Actually I'd say it's the other way around.

 

[Zaptruder]

Anyone think its worthwhile buying a new BD drive along with a new PC? (already paid for new PC; just waiting on shipping).

About $200 USD... er... I think I'll wait for the prices to drop.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Anyone think its worthwhile buying a new BD drive along with a new PC? (already paid for new PC; just waiting on shipping).

About $200 USD... er... I think I'll wait for the prices to drop.

Is that just for a Blu-Ray player?

 

[Forsete]

Actually I'd say it's the other way around.

I doubt that... Paying off Paramount, loss on each HD-DVD player, deals back and forth. It'll be nice to see their financials for once. If DVD-royalties covers that much, then Sony must be in heaven when Blu-Ray starts to sell by the truckload.

Speaking of PC-drives, are there any external drives out yet? Speaking Blu-Ray drives.

 

[Zaptruder]

Is that just for a Blu-Ray player?

Yeah it is. I typed it out and paused for a moment... and realised how much of a waste it would be.

200 bucks. for a farkin BD rom. Not even a writer man.

 

[Frankfurter]

I doubt that... Paying off Paramount, loss on each HD-DVD player, deals back and forth. It'll be nice to see their financials for once. If DVD-royalties covers that much, then Sony must be in heaven when Blu-Ray starts to sell by the truckload.

Considering that Sony and Toshiba probably had to invest several hundred millions into their respective formats, I just don't see how the most successful video format ever couldn't bring in a few hundred million Dollars per year.