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[LJ11]

I think their version of neutrality is to not have any influence on the 'war' at all.

That means moving towards releasing basically identical HD-DVD/BluRay titles (encoding, extras, etc.) on the same dates.

I definitely see your point, I debated posting the very same thing, but I just don't see how it's fair to the HD-DVD camp. Nevertheless, it is what it is and you're right, consumers will have the ultimate say in the months to come.

 

[Petrarca]

DAMN! this is a total beatdown.


http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx

 

[sif]

Anyone remember this crazy graph?

http://img19.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=83881_graphic_highres_122_161lo.jpg

Looks like Fox was being conservative according to Videoscan (monitor 65% of all sales). Blu- Ray is definately pulling ahead now:

At last! Some figures have begun to be posted on the digital edition of Home Media Magazine. To access the digital edition, scroll down the page. On the left you'll see a box entitled "This Week's Digital Edition", and underneath the text "Read It Now! Click Here". Click that.

They are giving relative percentages between BD and HD DVD, both year-to-date and "since inception", as well as the weekly top 5 for BD and HD DVD, as well as their relative sales within each format.

So, without further ado...

Week ended Jan 14
YTD: BD 100.00, HD 38.36
SI: BD 92.40, HD 100.00

Week ended Jan 7
YTD: BD 100.00, HD 47.14
SI: BD 85.05, HD 100.00

Thanks to Grubert at AVSforum for the summary
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798080

Three to one in Blu-Ray's favour and with no real Universal releases till April the gap will widen till then, especially with Casino Royale and the Disney films soon.

 

[Petrarca]

DVDEmpire now has their own special site for format war, again Blu-ray is delivering a full can of whoopass to HD-DVD

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp?view=1&userid=99365298946831

 

[sonycowboy]

Thanks to Grubert at AVSforum for the summary
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798080

Three to one in Blu-Ray's favour and with no real Universal releases till April the gap will widen till then, especially with Casino Royale and the Disney films soon.

Finally, some true measurements vs google searches, amazon rankings, and my sister's best friend's cousin at Best Buy .

Videoscan is showing a 2.5 to 1 advantage for Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD and they account for almost all movie sales in the US. Far better than NPD's coverage.

 

[Petrarca]

So FOX was speaking the truth after all, they predicted by March blu-ray will sell at least 3x more than HD-DVD. Currently blu-ray is selling 2.5 times more than HD-DVD.

with Casino Royale, Spidermans, Pirates of the Caribbeans on the horizon, we may see even greater number for blu-ray

 

[Petrarca]

Researchers predict blu-ray victory by mid-2008

http://homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?article_id=10208

Researcher Sees Blu-ray Victory
Author: JESSICA WOLF
jwolf@questex.com
Posted: January 25, 2007
Email this Story to Friend

Research firm Understanding & Solutions is keeping a close watch on the launches of both high-definition formats, HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc. While it’s a little early to call a winner, Blu-ray has the strongest possibility to dominate the market quickly, thanks mostly to the PlayStation 3, according to the company. Home Media Magazine talked to co-founder Jim Bottoms about what his firm sees for the future of the high-definition formats.

# HM: What kind of hardware adoption should we expect to see as the year progresses, now that there are several different hardware options for both formats, including the PS3?

# Bottoms: Top line, we reckon something like a million players were shipped through into consumers’ homes in 2006, including gaming formats. Of that 1 million, about 750,000 were PS3. It’s been our contention all along that both formats would almost be neck and neck, with Blu-ray having stronger industry support on the hardware side and content side and HD DVD getting out first and having lower price points. Each group has got its advantages, but what really changes the picture is PS3. It is poised to be in virtually 25 million to 35 million homes in the next two to three years.

# HM: So it could be an all Blu-ray high-def market in just a couple of years?

# Bottoms: I would be absolutely amazed if the format war goes on much further than mid-2008. If you look at what happened in 2006, 80% of what has sold through is Blu-ray. In 2007, [Blu-ray] will be at least that percentage again, but it won’t be a million players we’re talking about. We’re probably looking at something like 8 million units selling through this year across all product types and formats, so by the end of 2007, moving into 2008, it’s possible that 5% or 6% of U.S. homes will be owning a high-definition playback device. And about 80% of those devices will be Blu-ray.

# HM: Will Sony be able to keep up the manufacturing to hit that 25 million to 35 million PS3 target over the next couple of years?

# Bottoms: Well, that’s the question, isn’t it? But if you look at PS2 and [the original PlayStation], that’s the kind of volume those systems saw.

# HM: The higher price of the PS3 compared to those previous players doesn’t seem to be a stumbling block. Is that because it seems like a value to get the Blu-ray capability as well as the gaming system?

# Bottoms: The thing is, at this early stage, we are selling to the enthusiast. The people who are driving high-definition, be it on players or PS3, are people who have been waiting for years, who have spent $5,000 or $6,000 bucks on a TV. It almost doesn’t matter. It will matter in two or three years as it moves into a mass-market product. With standard-definition DVD, players were available for about two years before the PS2. The early adopter already had adopted their video player. Then along comes a gaming player that was also a video console, but it was a more expensive entry point. There was a penalty for it. This time around effectively PS3 is the first Blu-ray player available, and by the way, it comes in at $600, and —when to buy a Blu-ray video-only player was $1,000 or $800 — it actually became for someone who wants a Blu-ray player a very compelling purchase. And, by all accounts, PS3 is a much better Blu-ray player than the PS2 was a DVD player.

# HM: Are software buy rates for Blu-ray movies bearing out the theory that people would see the PS3 as more than just a gaming device?

# Bottoms: More than 70% of people buying a PS3 have a strong interest in acquiring movies for it. Until the PS3 was launched, software sales were probably three to one in HD DVD’s favor, but once the PS3 came out, the pendulum swung dramatically. Volume per title grew something like 700%. By the end of the year, most of the top selling high-definition titles will be Blu-ray discs.

# HM: Do you think high definition will reach mass market in two to three years, and do you mean that as in pricing or as in the kind of consumers who are buying high-def hardware and software?

# Bottoms: Both. We believe that you will see Blu-ray players at around $400 by the end of this year and HD DVD about $300. In the United States, it has to be less than $200 for mass appeal and less than $100 for an impulse purchase, but that will happen quickly. Going into [2008], I will sit and eat one of our reports if we haven’t seen an HD DVD player for less than $200. Crudely, it costs about $100 more to make, at volume, a high-definition player than it does to make a standard definition player. Of course, those numbers are at volume and [the electronics companies] are not at that manufacturing volume yet.

# HM: Does that mean that both formats could possibly exist simultaneously for some years to come if HD DVD companies dig in their heels?

# Bottoms: We believe by the end of the year, we will see one format start to dominate. At the moment all the cards are stacked in favor of Blu-ray coming out on top. In reality, the only companies holding on to HD DVD are Toshiba and Universal and, yes, it will be a difficult pill for them to swallow to switch to Blu-ray. But it was a difficult pill for Sony to swallow when they had to start making VHS machines [after Betamax failed]. It will probably be easier for Universal because they don’t have any real financial incentive to keep HD DVD going. Toshiba has got a strong vested interest in prolonging the life of the DVD format, and that’s what HD DVD is all about. It’s basically extending the DVD format as long as you can take it.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

As much as I want to see BD win, the first question I have is who is paying the research firm? They don't do this stuff for free.

 

[Raistlin]

As much as I want to see BD win, the first question I have is who is paying the research firm? They don't do this stuff for free.

I'm guessing electronics companies and movie studios.

Obviously they would like to know such things.

 

[HyperionX]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798080&page=1&pp=30

Week ended Jan 14
YTD: BD 100.00, HD 38.36
SI: BD 92.40, HD 100.00

Week ended Jan 7
YTD: BD 100.00, HD 47.14
SI: BD 85.05, HD 100.00

If BD is outselling HD by 2.6:1 a couple of weeks ago, then it's over already.

 

[Y2Kev]

When is the Da Vinci Code coming out for Blu-Ray?

I think that movie will be really big...but I actually want to watch that with my friend (and it's terrible.).

 

[Doctor_No]

Researchers predict blu-ray victory by mid-2008

http://homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?article_id=10208

Thanks, from the site you linked and article you quoted. . .

 

[unomas]

And this is the reason why I refuse to buy either product at this point. It certainly looks like BRD will win, but I'm still not sure either format will truly be the one to take over for DVD. DVD IMO will continue to dominate for another 5-10 years at least, most people simply don't have the televisions to watch these movies on.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

And this is the reason why I refuse to buy either product at this point. It certainly looks like BRD will win, but I'm still not sure either format will truly be the one to take over for DVD. DVD IMO will continue to dominate for another 5-10 years at least, most people simply don't have the televisions to watch these movies on.

No, I don't think DVDs will dominate for 5-10 years. They may dominate for another 3 years or so and then we'll see the high def discs take hold. Consumer electronics is all about "buzz". The problem is, a lot of people are buying HDTVs and watching regular SD cable. So when they watch DVDs, it looks sharper than tv channels. Thus they are satisfied.

Retail stores are now providing free High definition packages for a year and once the consumer sees HD, and then watch DVD - automatically, it clicks in; DVDs are not as good as HD. When people are used to seeing HD, it's awfully hard to go back to SD.

If you can get people to identify Blu-ray with high definition as people see Ipods as MP3 players, then most of the work is done. It has to start with the people who purshased big screen tvs and future purchasers of big screens.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

so how long do you guys think until blu-ray movies go down to $20 or so new? I love contributing to the sales of this great format, but at $30-$40 a movie, it is much more difficult.

Were DVDs this expensive when they first hit the market?

 

[DarkJediKnight]

so how long do you guys think until blu-ray movies go down to $20 or so new? I love contributing to the sales of this great format, but at $30-$40 a movie, it is much more difficult.

Were DVDs this expensive when they first hit the market?

If you think Blu-ray is expensive you weren't around for DVDs then. I remember my dad bought Terminator 1 or 2 on DVD in 97' and it was around $50can. This was pretty much the average price. I walked into Best Buy yesterday and I saw T2 on Blu-ray for $21.99can. One of the reasons Blu-ray is more expensive is because it's not an extension of DVD as HD DVD. New technology R&D costs money. Plus all Blu-ray discs have a coated surface that prevents scratching. This costs money. All Fox titles have DTS MA. Some of that royalty goes to DTS.

 

[Mr. Spinnington]

If you think Blu-ray is expensive you weren't around for DVDs then. I remember my dad bought Terminator 1 or 2 on DVD in 97' and it was around $50can. This was pretty much the average price. I walked into Best Buy yesterday and I saw T2 on Blu-ray for $21.99can. One of the reasons Blu-ray is more expensive is because it's not an extension of DVD as HD DVD. New technology R&D costs money. Plus all Blu-ray discs have a coated surface that prevents scratching. This costs money. All Fox titles have DTS MA. Some of that royalty goes to DTS.

Prevents or helps read through? I read on someone taking wool iron to a Blu-ray disc and even though it was scratched to hell the disc played fine. Not sure if it was a game or movie but the idea is there.

 

[Doctor_No]

so how long do you guys think until blu-ray movies go down to $20 or so new? I love contributing to the sales of this great format, but at $30-$40 a movie, it is much more difficult.

Were DVDs this expensive when they first hit the market?

If you buy them from Amazon or other online retailers you can find Blu-ray movies for ~$20 new. They are some movies that are $30-40 (from Fox), but it seems that most movies are already approaching the $20 price point.

BlackHawk Down $19.95
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000G0O5N2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Fifth Element $19.95
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EZ7ZY0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

etc.

 

[ManaByte]

If you buy them from Amazon or other online retailers you can find Blu-ray movies for ~$20 new. They are some movies that are $30-40 (from Fox), but it seems that most movies are already approaching the $20 price point.

BlackHawk Down $19.95
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000G0O5N2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Fifth Element $19.95
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EZ7ZY0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

etc.

Fry's sells most for about $20 as well.

I was looking at them today and they basically broke down like this:
Warner, Paramount, and some Sony catalog titles: $19
Sony new releases: $29
Warner new releases: $24
Buena Vista: $24-$29
Fox $27-$34

Fry's is generally $5 less on each title than Best Buy. But even some stuff like the Fox releases are still too expensive.

I kind of want X3, but I won't pay more than $19 for it and $34-$39 is just not worth it for that.

 

[Doctor_No]

I kind of want X3, but I won't pay more than $19 for it and $34-$39 is just not worth it for that.

I think X3 is $28 on Amazon, but still not cheap. Thanks for the tip on Fry's, they seem cheaper then Amazon I'll have to check them out.

 

[SuperPac]

Local Best Buy has Beerfest HD DVD stickered at $36.99, nearly $10 above MSRP. It's not like that on the website but good friggin' god man...does Best Buy not want the high-def disc formats to do well?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

WOW. Those Videoscan numbers are huge.

These numbers have really shaken all the AV and DVD websites and forums to the core. These sites have seen more intense infighting between format fanboys than even this site in the middle of this full-fledged so-called console "war." Now, the Blu-ray fanboys are doing a huge victory dance around an HD-DVD funeral pyre they have constructed, and the HD DVD fanboys are in an utter state of shock mixed with denial. Some have even gone so far as to claim Nielsen is in the back pocket of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

It's pretty hilarious, really. Meltdowns galore.

More info on the Videoscan numbers from High Def Digest on just how fast Blu-ray has been closing the gap on HD DVDs early lead in total disc sales:

More interestingly, VideoScan's numbers indicate that during the seven days between Jan 7 and Jan 14, Blu-ray managed to close the gap of total discs sold since inception with HD DVD by over seven percentage points, suggesting that if the current trend continues, the two formats could be at disc sales parity within weeks.

The sales charts, which first appeared in the industry trade Home Media Magazine are reproduced below:

 

[RaijinFY]

... and It looks like Casino Royale is selling like hot cakes.

 

[Zaptruder]

And this is the reason why I refuse to buy either product at this point. It certainly looks like BRD will win, but I'm still not sure either format will truly be the one to take over for DVD. DVD IMO will continue to dominate for another 5-10 years at least, most people simply don't have the televisions to watch these movies on.

Ugh. I'm so sick of this FUD line of reasoning. And I think I've dealt with you on this exact issue more than once before.

Simply put... HDTV growth rate is growing exponentially. Each year, a larger percentage of people are buying into HDTV technology than before. Obviously, it can only go on for a bit longer, but in 5 years time, you're looking at anywhere from 40-50% of the market.
When you also consider that the people buying HDTVs are generally more affluent, more consumpution driven, and by extension, the people more likely to buy new movies, not just new media, but new movies in general... then you'll start to understand that HD media is simply put, here to stay.

Indeed, I predict that the winner of the HD media, will see even greater success than the currently, relatively ubiquitous DVD format; the advantages of that format is carried over, and then some; Industry resolution changes are such an extreme hassle to go through, and 1080p Full HD more than adequate for all but the most extreme setups ((typically 120+ inch projection setups), in the sense that at a typical sitting distance, with a typical screen size, you simply cannot resolve more resolution with 20/20 vision)... that the likelihood of the industry as a whole wanting to change resolutions again probably won't come around for a few decades yet. Indeed, I'm of the firm belief that the next change will be a paradigm shift; from 2D formats to 3D formats.
Given that both BD and HDDVD are perfectly adequate HD formats, even moreso than DVD is a SD format, then there's little to no reason to change up to another optical format like say HVD, due to the costs and lack of advantages for doing so.

In 10 years time, I firmly believe that you simply won't be able to buy DVD players anywhere anymore; the winning HD media will simply be such a commodity item; the cost for the blue laser diode and chipset extra over a DVD player so low, that it's simply not worth the manufacturer's time to make *just* DVD players...
Of course, they'll still be able to play DVDs, just as most DVD players can still handle VCD, but by and large, in the same way that the last 4-5 years have seen DVD shelfspace totally dominate over VHS tapes, despite the fact that DVD players hadn't technically exceeded the number of VHS players in people's homes until this year, BD will replace DVDs in shelfspace.

I'm kinda surprised that Universal doesn't have some sort of patent in the HDDVD group... there must be some serious moneyhats going on for them to want to support it this hard; otherwise there's simply no reason other than iHD to want to support HDDVD over BD; the cards are stacked in BDs favour; and the benefit to themselves, not to mention everyone else of a unified HD format is far greater than any 'format war'. Indeed, BDjava is coming around sometime early this year, so even that advantage will be eroded, leaving Universal with no apparent reason to support HD-DVD, other than perhaps the money hats.

 

[Brofist]

And this is the reason why I refuse to buy either product at this point. It certainly looks like BRD will win, but I'm still not sure either format will truly be the one to take over for DVD. DVD IMO will continue to dominate for another 5-10 years at least, most people simply don't have the televisions to watch these movies on.

you are in some major ass denial if you think DVD and SD TVs will still be dominating in 5-10 years.

 

[Petrarca]

WOW. Those Videoscan numbers are huge.

These numbers have really shaken all the AV and DVD websites and forums to the core. These sites have seen more intense infighting between format fanboys than even this site in the middle of this full-fledged so-called console "war." Now, the Blu-ray fanboys are doing a huge victory dance around an HD-DVD funeral pyre they have constructed, and the HD DVD fanboys are in an utter state of shock mixed with denial. Some have even gone so far as to claim Nielsen is in the back pocket of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

It's pretty hilarious, really. Meltdowns galore.

:lol :lol

so true...

I thought console war fanboys are bad, but man format war fanboys, make console war fanboys look like mature civilized grown-ups :lol

 

[Zaptruder]

:lol :lol

so true...

I thought console war fanboys are bad, but man format war fanboys, make console war fanboys look like mature civilized grown-ups :lol

To be fair, unlike consoles... one *must* die.

 

[nubbe]

To be fair, unlike consoles... one *must* die.

No no... LG has a much more civilized solution.

 

[Zaptruder]

No no... LG has a much more civilized solution.

Confusion is the civilized solution?

Besides, that thing has gimped HD-DVD playback.

 

[Y2Kev]

And costs 1300 dollars!

 

[Lord Error]

Who cares even if DVD keeps the lead 5-10 years from now? How do I, or anyone else who owns an HDTV and one of HD players benefit from buying any more DVDs? The resale value will be higher on DVDs one day? :lol

Seriously, what's the logic in buying a DVD when you can have same movie in HD for pretty much the same price?

 

[theBishop]

I'm sure you guys already know this, but I was looking at the medium-term release dates for the formats, and the comparison is pretty staggering:

January 30, 2007

* Beerfest (Warner)
* Half Baked (Universal)
* The Wicker Man (2006) (Warner)

February 06, 2007

* Failure to Launch (Paramount)
* Hollywoodland (Universal)

February 13, 2007

* The Departed (Warner)

February 20, 2007

* Babel (Paramount)

February 27, 2007

* Bullitt (Warner)
* Digital Video Essentials (DVD International) JUST LISTED!
* The Getaway (1972) (Warner)
* Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time (Interscope)

March 06, 2007

* The Good Shepherd (Universal)

March 27, 2007

* Happy Feet (Warner)
* March of the Penguins (Warner)
* National Geographic: Relentless Enemies (Warner)
* School for Scoundrels (Genius)

April 10, 2007

* Payback: Straight Up - The Director's Cut (Paramount)

April 17, 2007

* The Game (Universal)
* The Jerk (Universal)

April 24, 2007

* Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Universal)
* The Nutty Professor (1996) (Universal)
* Planet Earth: The Complete Collection (BBC)

Total: 22

January 30, 2007

* Beerfest (Warner)
* Flyboys (Fox)
* Hart's War (Fox)
* Open Season (Sony)
* The Wicker Man (2006) (Warner)

February 06, 2007

* American Psycho (Lionsgate)
* Failure to Launch (Paramount)
* First Blood (Lionsgate)
* Reservoir Dogs (Lionsgate)
* Running With Scissors (Sony)
* The Tailor of Panama (Sony)
* Young Guns (Lionsgate) JUST LISTED!

February 13, 2007

* Broken Arrow (Fox)
* Chain Reaction (Fox)
* Chronos (Koch) JUST LISTED!
* The Departed (Warner)
* Entrapment (Fox)
* Ladder 49 (Buena Vista)
* Marie Antoinette (Sony)
* The Marine (Fox)
* Phone Booth (Fox)
* Planet of the Apes (Fox)
* Reign of Fire (Buena Vista)
* The Sentinel (Fox)
* The Usual Suspects (Fox)

February 20, 2007

* Babel (Paramount)
* The Prestige (Buena Vista)
* Vertical Limit (Sony)

February 27, 2007

* Bullitt (Warner)
* The Getaway (1972) (Warner)
* Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time (Interscope)
* Stranger Than Fiction (Sony)

March 13, 2007

* Casino Royale (Sony)
* Commando (Fox)
* Dances with Wolves (MGM)
* Dodgeball (Fox)
* Hoosiers (MGM)
* Ice Age (Fox)
* Layer Cake (Sony)
* Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
* The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) (MGM)

March 20, 2007

* Big Fish (Sony)
* Chicken Little (Buena Vista)
* Finding Neverland (Buena Vista)
* The Holiday [2006) (Sony)

March 27, 2007

* Happy Feet (Warner)
* March of the Penguins (Warner)
* National Geographic: Relentless Enemies (Warner)

April 03, 2007

* Dude, Where's My Car? (MGM)
* The Fly (1986) (Fox)
* G.I. Jane (Buena Vista)
* Hannibal (MGM)
* King Arthur Director's Cut (Buena Vista)
* Me, Myself & Irene (Fox)
* The Silence of the Lambs (MGM)
* Tristan & Isolde (Fox)

April 10, 2007

* Payback: Straight Up - The Director's Cut (Paramount)

April 17, 2007

* Turistas (Fox)

April 24, 2007

* Planet Earth: The Complete Collection (BBC)

May 22, 2007

* Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Buena Vista)
* Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Buena Vista)

June 05, 2007

* Cars (Buena Vista)

June 08, 2007

* Con Air (Buena Vista)
* Crimson Tide (Buena Vista)
* The Rock (Buena Vista)

Total: 65

DAMN!

Granted, these lists may have omissions, and the Blu-Ray list goes out a few months longer. But even if you only go to April 25 (the last date for HD-DVD), Blu-ray still has more than 2x the number of releases. And subjectively, the quality of films coming to blu-ray are significantly. better.

this war is over. lets get on with it.



source:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html

 

[The Main Event]

I'm sure you guys already know this, but I was looking at the medium-term release dates for the formats, and the comparison is pretty staggering:



Total: 22



Total: 65

DAMN!

Granted, these lists may have omissions, and the Blu-Ray list goes out a few months longer. But even if you only go to April 25 (the last date for HD-DVD), Blu-ray still has more than 2x the number of releases. And subjectively, the quality of films coming to blu-ray are significantly. better.

this war is over. lets get on with it.



source:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html

It was already announced that around 300 titles should be available on HD-DVD this year alone. The problem with the HD-DVD releases is that a lot of them don't have any confirmed dates. That said, Blu-Ray having more titles coming out this year is logical because of the more studios support.

The format war will be over once every neutral and exclusive studios jump ship to the competing format. It'll be over when the Blu-Ray associations/Sony will not put any restrictions regarding certain contents on their format (porn industry) or when the Java issue gets ironed out, hence losing key titles to their library (Warner France on Blu-Ray).

Stand-alone HD-DVD players are still selling at a brisk pace comparing to Blu-Ray's stand-alone, and it can only go up once the players get even cheaper with the entry of the Chinese manufacturers.

I'm pretty sure this year will be the deciding factor though, it'll be funny to look back at these threads at the beginning of next year.

 

[DarienA]

It'll be over when the Blu-Ray associations/Sony will not put any restrictions regarding certain contents on their format (porn industry)

No such restriction exists, please get your story straight.

 

[Suikoguy]

The format war will be over once every neutral and exclusive studios jump ship to the competing format. It'll be over when the Blu-Ray associations/Sony will not put any restrictions regarding certain contents on their format (porn industry) or when the Java issue gets ironed out, hence losing key titles to their library (Warner France on Blu-Ray).

Do HD-DVD supporters have to resort to FUD for EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT now?
Sony does NOT prevent porn on Blu-Ray, it simply will not manufacture it in their own facilities, which people speculate because of issues with Disney.

 

[kaching]

As much as I've always been a BD proponent over HD-DVD, the celebrations over a few weeks of sales data seem incredibly premature.

 

[Suikoguy]

As much as I've always been a BD proponent over HD-DVD, the celebrations over a few weeks of sales data seem incredibly premature.

I think most consider that if the situation is that good now, the conditions are there to make them even better.

Suffice to say, if the ratio ends up being like 5 or 6 to 1
Then things may pass a point where Universal simply can't ignore the situation.. at which point the "war" is over.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

As much as I've always been a BD proponent over HD-DVD, the celebrations over a few weeks of sales data seem incredibly premature.

What's particularly heartening to BD supporters is that this is exactly what was expected to happen with the PS3 release, *and it happened*. Meanign that the Trojan Horse strategy is working, and likely to make the difference overall. Why else would sales have gone up so much so shortly?

BD was most seriously hampered by the availability of a low-cost (relatively!) plyaer and software, and now that those have arrived, it's performing as hoped. So yeah, even a couple of weeks of good news, when it fits the pattern that was hoped for, it celebration-worthy.

I expect only Universal to by exclusive to HD-DVD by the end of the year, and at least once major studio dropping HD-DVD support once the imbalance widens.

 

[Raistlin]

so how long do you guys think until blu-ray movies go down to $20 or so new? I love contributing to the sales of this great format, but at $30-$40 a movie, it is much more difficult.

Were DVDs this expensive when they first hit the market?

Many of the titles are $19.99 at Amazon ($18.00 if you took advantage of the buy 3, get 10% for a year deal).

 

[Raistlin]

As much as I've always been a BD proponent over HD-DVD, the celebrations over a few weeks of sales data seem incredibly premature.

While I see your point ...

It isn't really the actual units that are important, but the growth trend BD is showing.

 

[DarienA]

Do HD-DVD supporters have to resort to FUD for EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT now?
Sony does NOT prevent porn on Blu-Ray, it simply will not manufacture it in their own facilities, which people speculate because of issues with Disney.

And I'd like to add it's the same policy they have for manufacturing DVD's as well. Sony will not let you press prn DVD's at their facilities.

 

[kaching]

I completely understand that things are moving in a positive direction, but since we're just at the start of that, celebration still seems premature. Understand when I speak of celebration, I'm referring to the people who seem to think we're already looking at the beginning of the end for HD-DVD.

 

[SleazyC]

May 22, 2007

* Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Buena Vista)
* Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Buena Vista)

Can't wait that long... must have....

 

[The Main Event]

No such restriction exists, please get your story straight.

Do HD-DVD supporters have to resort to FUD for EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT now?
Sony does NOT prevent porn on Blu-Ray, it simply will not manufacture it in their own facilities, which people speculate because of issues with Disney.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/759/759068p1.html

IGN: How did you originally come to discover that Digital Playground was being blocked from releasing titles on Blu-ray?

Joone: As you know, we had originally announced that we were going to support Blu-ray last year. After that we started working hard authoring. There came the time to begin looking for a replicator to make the discs. There aren't that many replicators out there that do Blu-ray right now. So I started calling them, places here in the US, UK, Canada, and Germany, and they all kept saying, 'We can't do it or Sony will revoke our Blu-ray license.

IGN: Wow.

Joone: So I asked if they could do it on the DL. It's business, you're just running discs. But they said no, every Blu-ray disc has a stamp and Sony would be able to tell who made it. So, basically, after talking to all these people, we were basically forced to do HD-DVD.

IGN: And that's where things stood two weeks ago.

Joone: And then that's when all this press started coming out, and now today, Sony is saying that, 'Oh, we don't discourage people from doing that. Replicators can do whatever they want.' And I say, great, name me a place that will do it. Let's not keep it at just talk, show me who will do it. I think they're just taking a stance of, 'Okay, we'll do it,' but when people call, the replicators will be like, 'No, we don't do it.'

I want to do Blu-ray. I want to do all formats. But I don't have a choice. I want to spend the money. We're one of the very few companies in this business that can afford to do Blu-ray, but we haven't had any luck.

IGN: Marty Gordon issued a statement after yours saying there was no prohibition against adult content. Was that just lip-service?

Joone: I think so. They're in a war, and they don't want to look like they're going to lose on the surface because they don't have everyone on their side, so they'll say anything. It would still be great if someone could point me to one company that's replicating adult on Blu-ray, but we still can't find any. You'd think after all these interviews someone would call me and say 'Hey, wanna do Blu-ray?' But no. They're doing all this PR like there aren't any problems, but then when you call it's a different story.

IGN: There was some debate on the net regarding whether it was actually Sony blocking replication or contracts that the replicators have with the major movie studios. Since that incident where a frame of porn found its way onto Disney discs we've heard there are some pretty restrictive rules about replicating adult and mainstream content in the same facility.

Joone: I can't tell you for sure, but all I can tell you is what I've been told by the replicators. They didn't mention other studios, they didn't say they have contracts with other studios, they pointed the finger at Sony.

IGN: Directly at Sony?

Joone: Yeah, directly at Sony. They could have said they can't do it because of Disney, but they didn't. When you look at it there aren't that many Blu-ray titles out there. How many Disney titles are there on Blu-ray now?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

And yet, porn titles are coming... I'll have to search from home, you understand.


kaching: I think the death of HD-DVD is further off than the success of BluRay. It'll hang on a bit, and Universal won't switch immediately. But I do expect to see the consumer confidence go way up, studio support to become more regular (as in actual discs, not just on-paper "support) and expect to see some HD-DVD support drop off.

It took DivX a while to die, and that was much clearer. And even longer before Fox came around to DVD. But long before that, the writing was on the wall.

 

[chubigans]

Here's the best line from an HD-DVD enthusiast I saw in a forum today:

Are you guys morons? They include PS3 games because they're made on Blu-Ray as well! Thats why there's such a surge! HELLO???

PS3 which is 95% of the Blu-ray base puts its games on blu-ray discs. This article plays around with terms like "software" and "discs". Movies are never mentioned.

Therefore, they are including videogames in their numbers.

:lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Here's the best line from an HD-DVD enthusiast I saw in a forum today:



:lol

??

If that were the case, wouldn't BD have taken over in December? Interesting if true, but seems unlikely.

 

[DarienA]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/759/759068p1.html

And yet Vivid is about to release Debbie Does Dallas Again on Blu Ray...

you've been had my friend.

Yes I can give you a link to read:

http://www.dailytech.com/Adult+Content+Confirmed+to+Appear+on+Bluray+HD+DVD/article5686.htm

 

[chubigans]

??

If that were the case, wouldn't BD have taken over in December? Interesting if true, but seems unlikely.

Ill assume its not true considering this has never been done with DVD sales...PS2, Xbox and Xbox 360 games are pressed on a DVD, after all.

Nielsen handles movies, not formats.

 

[The Main Event]

And yet Vivid is about to release Debbie Does Dallas Again on Blu Ray...

you've been had my friend.

Yes I can give you a link to read:

http://www.dailytech.com/Adult+Content+Confirmed+to+Appear+on+Bluray+HD+DVD/article5686.htm

I've been had? I was fully aware of that title coming out on Blu-Ray and Vivid's commitment to the format. My post earlier was to criticize on how Sony is handling the content, which is even mentioned in your article. I never mentioned that porn was banned on the Blu-Ray format, but restrictions regarding it.

IGN: Vivid announced recently that they're going to do a Blu-ray release. What's the deal with that?

Joone: We're not sure if they've really got a replicator or a $20,000 machine that will let you burn them in quantity. The market isn't that big so you could spend a weekend burning a few hundred and them bam, you have a Blu-ray title out. I don't know, they're saying they have a Blu-ray release but I have yet to find a replicator that will make the discs. As a replicator, your business is to have something to replicate. They should want customers. Within the industry I think of our stuff as the safest to work with. We're the only company with a cross-over release (Pirates). There's less of a stigma to it than anything else.

And from your article:

“Sony is not giving any assistance in the authoring or replication of adult content on Blu-ray,” said Hirsch. “Sony is somehow trying to keep away such material from the format, which I think is a mistake.”

Without Sony’s help, Vivid had to find authoring and replication facilities on its own. Hirsch added that Sony puts restrictions on all Blu-ray manufacturing facilities that produce Disney titles disallowing them from making adult content. By comparison, the manufacturing process for Vivid’s HD DVD adult titles is much easier as it is able to make use of existing facilities.

Adult content on Blu-ray Disc format may appear in greater numbers once there are more production facilities available. “Part of the problem [with Blu-ray] is that it’s a new format,” Hirsch said. “There are very few replicators right now.”