LUFTRAUSER
Banned
I'm giving up on trying to sell you things that you ain't buying.
Do you understand? It's all in your head.
Hillary Clinton to CNN: "I will be the nominee"
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Do you understand? It's all in your head.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
Okay sanders supporters, I would have loved the guy to win to but it's over. I gave up at ohio, it's done we have to let it go. Hillary does need to get those poll numbers higher, and that's not happening overnight.
cosigned. It's done. I'm ready to move on to the General and stopping the man that is Trump.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Same answer applies
The election is six months out. Sanders isn't just campaigning to win the nomination, although that point seems to be lost on most people in this forum since they view, rightly or wrongly, the election through a fairly narrow lens.
As for getting her numbers up, well, that's literally her current job, hence the whole campaigning for presidency thing.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
To add to the trust thing, it's the biggest reason that calculators that factor in savings aren't going to sway people. To believe those tools, you have to believe that Sanders' plan would actually give you those things for that cost. And we're talking about the guy who was chairing the committee for the VA, a notorious disaster of gov't bureaucracy, where Sanders himself supposedly didn't believe that gov't could be inefficient.
I trust the gov't with this. Most people don't, and won't, especially coming from Bernie Sanders. His own baggage is largely undealt with, and that would be an issue (which it won't be since he's not winning).
I always run thought experiments on what I'd do if I was a Republican strategist. And this would help a lot of people on the left; if you were thinking about which candidate to run against, who would you pick? Hillary or Bernie?
exmachina64
Banned
Trump using Sanders to attack Clinton.
I'm left agape at his stupidity.
I mean...I understand that he's putting "Muslim ban" in quotes to imply that he's not really banning Muslims, but the only real difference is his use of the word temporary. And since he won't define the period for which it would be effective....
What is he campaigning for?
And it is also Sanders job to endorse Hillary and persuade his supporters to vote for her after California, just like Hillary did for Obama in '08. Unless Sanders is lying about doing everything he can to stop a Trump presidency.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Really, dude? Really?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
If Sanders was so invested on moving the DNC's needle left, why has he done zero down ticket? If he is campaigning to get his message out why the continuing attacks on the DNC and the nominee? The "greater good" argument falls flat under scrutiny.
It's Melkr_. You just learn to ignore him.
RustyNails
Member
Sanders is solely campaigning to win the nomination. What makes you think otherwise? If he was just trying to make the democratic party adopt ideas, he wouldn't have been personally attacking Hillary for the past few months. His campaign wouldn't have gone into a highly publicized tiff with the DNC chair, party, establishment. His candidacy has raised not a single worthy sum for down ticket ballot. His campaign has field not a single worthwhile competitor in purple districts. So pardon me if I call bs on your claim that he's not just running for the nomination. That's the only thing he's running for.
Edit: I see I was beaten like Bernie in Nevada.
People who argue that Bernie would be a better dem nominee for president in the general vs Trump need to realize that virtually the entire political "establishment" has treated Bernie with kid's gloves through the entire primary. Most democrats won't attack Bernie viciously because they don't want to alienate his base of young voters and republicans have no interest in attacking him because they want him to weaken Clinton has much as possible for the general election. He's been treated with kid's gloves and he still bristles anytime someone does simple delegate and polling math for him.
Absoludacrous
Member
A lot of people have said this, and none of the vocal Bernie supporters in this thread have commented on any of these posts at all, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Radio silence is itself speech (and it says quite a lot about their arguments).
Elfforkusu
Member
Does it?
It's amazing isn't it? And his supporters are fine with it, because it's "temporary". Just need an "out" for people to get behind it. Well it's not a ban if it's not forever, am I right? I say America should ban guns under the same pretenses. His followers should support it, you know since they are afraid of being killed by people and it would only be "temporary"...
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
I'll comment then, yeah he lost. He lost a long while back, and I'm disappointed. He had some upsets and he did farther then I was personally expecting. I think he hasn't gotten nearly the same attention from the media, which makes sense because Clinton is someone even joe the plumber knows about. And while he's sticking through to the end I personally have admitted his loss, and awhile back as well. Even if he won with superdelgates it would defeat the whole point of democracy within the democrat party. Now I haven't been able to make any statement without pinpointing my flaws of my arguments and opinions but still, I feel like I should say something.
I don't have enough information to say much on it because I have tried to stay out of the news cycle for a little bit. But personally foreign policy wasn't really the thing I liked about him. I also had issues with his gun control ideas. I supported the idea of single payer alot though, any way to workout private companies for medical expenses is kinda what I was hoping for.
Absoludacrous
Member
I didn't mean a comment in general. Everything you said is probably in line with how most Bernie supporters feel. Disappointed but ready to move on. Totally fair and natural.
The point I was making was that the die hards in this thread and elsewhere on the board who want the supers to flip, and think he would win in the general, have yet to comment on any of the dozens of posts pointing out that none of the polls reflect the incredible power the Republican attack machine would have on his numbers once it was properly spun up.
Probably because a) she's still not officially the nominee and that drawing contrasts between candidates is the entire point of primaries, b) the DNC has long ago, largely adopted the DLC's set of ideas which Sanders has clear issues with, so critiquing it is fair game and c) I would imagine he's been primarily focused on trying to get his own campaign into a winning position.
Your first question/my last point you'd have to ask the Sanders campaign about, since I'm not Sanders (surprise!). No question, he could've done more, but given that he's an independent that unexpectedly gained a huge following within the Democratic Party primaries, I don't find it magically surprising that he's not running around backslapping other candidates and plugging their campaigns. I don't think if Jim Webb's campaign magically took off, he'd have been running around doing that either, even if he just wanted to win the nomination.
Sanders seems more intent on leveraging his platform to spread his ideas more broadly and paint an alternative picture for the Democratic platform. You're welcome to critique the merits or pitfalls of that approach, but I personally don't find that shocking or wildly distasteful. It only falls under scrutiny if you think there's one way to do things.
It's kind of a dumb argument honestly, so I'm not sure what you want here. I get it, but short of playing this imaginary scenario out in actual reality, it's all just speculation. It could be spot on or complete garbage.
Ooh, Sanders bristled. And Trump is going to, what...be a statue when someone says he's a terrible businessman and doesn't know what he's talking about?
Absoludacrous
Member
It's something that can't be ignored if you're going to hold up current GE poll numbers as proof that the supers should flip.
I see it as a twofold problem that isn't an imaginary scenario at all. One, Bernie has proven himself to be pretty thin-skinned during this primary. That's a bad look for a presidential candidate and one that has cost candidates in the past. Two, Bernie's polling numbers are incredibly soft and untested because virtually no one is attacking him. Clinton more or less ignores him and republicans are happy to have him around as long as possible.
BlastProcessing
Member
We do have one example of what would happen if Sanders got attacked in the manner he would in a GE.
Sanders winning Michigan was the highpoint of his run. That win was the one solid punch he landed on Clinton. The next day at the Florida debate, a video of Sanders praising Castro's Cuba was played.
Sanders then got crushed in Florida.
The fact that Clinton was more prepared to answer questions about that video than Sanders was gives me the suspicion that that video surfacing at all was the one sharp elbow her camp threw this primary.
exmachina64
Banned
Yep, I tried to think of a way to describe that before I posted. At the end of the day, it's bigotry in service of preserving a white majority, but it's just so fucking short-sighted.
I defend Hillary Clinton to death but even I have to admit that your spoiler is highly likely. The time was too perfect, and NOBODY will be able to convince me that only Telemundo was sitting on that footage and only they had the balls to question him about it.
That was definitely a warning shot to Bernie. The Clinton oppo research team is some scary shit. She could sink him if she really wanted to.
I also believe she's who leaked the John Miller tape to the press. /tinfoil
After admitting to hiring internet trolls I wouldn't put anything past her. She's pure slime.
googleplex
Member
After admitting to hiring internet trolls I wouldn't put anything past her. She's pure slime.
Except Hillary Clinton didn't hire any internet trolls.... I mean you HAVE to know that if some separate group not connected to her Campaign decides to hire people to "correct the record" on her behalf. You really can't hold her responsible right??
But hey lets not let the facts get in the way of you calling her slime.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
I'm from wv so I have to say this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ7K0cUXZCU
This shit was from charleston, where the trump rally was being held. It was a scary dangerous place as we had the worst of the worst human beings there. Most bernie supporters here locally (not myself before anyone calls me on it) don't like Hillary because of how she handled coal. Coal is the number 1 issue in wv aside from our poverty and drug problem. Her on coal is why people won't vote for her here, it's just a fact. Look I gave up on him losing but if you are gonna use my home to set any opinion about polling here at least learn the full story. And don't you dare say that the bernie supporters here are even on the same level as those in this video for trump, that's a low blow.
This shit was from charleston, where the trump rally was being held. It was a scary dangerous place as we had the worst of the worst human beings there. Most bernie supporters here locally (not myself before anyone calls me on it) don't like Hillary because of how she handled coal. Coal is the number 1 issue in wv aside from our poverty and drug problem. Her on coal is why people won't vote for her here, it's just a fact. Look I gave up on him losing but if you are gonna use my home to set any opinion about polling here at least learn the full story. And don't you dare say that the bernie supporters here are even on the same level as those in this video for trump, that's a low blow.
BlastProcessing
Member
Maybe he meant a cool Slime.
Never underestimate Clinton oppo.
I agree that the John Miller tape feels like it could have come from her camp as well.
After admitting to hiring internet trolls I wouldn't put anything past her. She's pure slime.
Every candidate in this election has Internet trolls. Hillary's are just the only ones getting paid.
So, really, she's the only one actually creating jobs.
Lol she probably has more control over that group than Sanders on some of his random supporters stirring shit and we know who the mob is calling to simmer down....please...
-----------------------------------------
Anyway I see no lies in Hillary's statement. Fairly uncontroversial at this point.
Halifirien
Member
"I demand a recount!"
"One for Clinton. Two for Clinton. Would you like another recount?"
"No."
"Well I just want to be sure. One for Clinton. Two for Clinton."
"One for Clinton. Two for Clinton. Would you like another recount?"
"No."
"Well I just want to be sure. One for Clinton. Two for Clinton."
googleplex
Member
Dude.. It would be illegal for her campaign to have anything to do with that super pac. So no she didn't have control over anything they allegedly did. But I guess if you think she's "Slime" no amount of factual information is presented to you will convince you otherwise.
ugaboga232
Member
Its illegal to use scheduled drugs but that didnt stop the last 3 presidents.
googleplex
Member
Ah guilty until proven innocent. Slime until proven human.
I'm not ignoring it, as much as I'm flat out calling it a dumb line of argument. The Republican attack machine argument is the same one Obama supporters were being feeding 2008 in by Clinton supporters then (I was here). Maybe it works this time, maybe it doesn't, but there's only one way to really find out.
As for the Florida issue, that would make more sense if, you know, Clinton didn't have a 30-point lead in Florida for the entire duration of the primary.
As for the thin skinned thing, a) the assertion that it has sunk candidates in the past is more myth than reality and b) the Republican candidate is Trump, the most thin skinned person alive, so even if that line of argument holds water, great, no problem.
ugaboga232
Member
1. its absurdly easy (and pretty much design) that you can coordinate without "coordinating"
2. Read somewhere that through 2 superpacs she can essentially coordinate online or something.
3. There was that whole colbert PAC thing to show you how easy it is.
4. Everyones doing it is basically her response.
If you really think there is no coordination of any kind, I have many bridges to sell you.
And I never called her slime...
I'm not aiming this in particular at Clinton, but if you think some candidates' campaigns haven't coordinated with Super PACs...well, I'm sure there's a Simpsons gif for that.
Umm...I see no point in arguing with you. Specially if you truly believe that Super Pacs and campaigns aren't in cahoot with each other. I mean you have to stop right there and ignore. Purposefully naive.
eBay Huckster
Member
i'mma need to see the Revolution Messaging receipts to be completely sure about that
But somehow bernie still has some helping him, and they are helping him without coordinating because he doesn't like them.
But they are still helping him.
¯\_(ツ
_/¯ugaboga232
Member
But somehow bernie still has some helping him, and they are helping him without coordinating because he doesn't like them.
But they are still helping him.
¯\_(ツ
The small, nurse super PAC is a completely different ballgame than the ones tied much closer to individual campaigns. He could have been stronger in asking them to cease and desist but he didnt so you can hit him on that. If you think they are the same in power/coordination, thats almost as laughable as the stuff hardened bernie supports say. Pick your battles, this is not the one.
The absurd example is the fiorina super pac or ben carsons buying his book from him to basically turn donations into cash.
So you are making excuses now? I thought Bernie was for purity? And hitting Hillary because of that?
So he can get these small Super Pacs and thats fine? Can he be the true leader against Citizen's United if he has super pacs behind him? That is his precise argument against Hillary on Campaign Finance. I guess Bernie isn't pure enough to stop Citizen's United by his own standards.
TheLaughingStock
Member
I posted the right ones I think. They covered stuff like output, distribution, and a slew of numbers brought together by factcheck.org. I brought in the latter from factcheck.org because some of those stats are things Democrats take credit for in their party platform while saying the US gov't put 2 wars on a non-existent credit card LOL so they should be fair game.
In any event, I believe it highlights a clear trend. One of the worst recoveries on record, soaring corporate profits and stocks, modest wage gains mostly from the last two years, inflation that's too low, nearly 10 million jobs biased towards low wages, nearly 10% uninsured but hey y'all got Medicaid lol, #2 food stamp president behind W. Bush, etc.
I mean the last 8 years have been pretty embarassing for anyone saying they're fighting for the little man. That's why Trump and Bernie are doing so well. 10s of millions know it's simply a myth.
Aaronology
Member
So well that one has utterly lost his primary campaign and the other has completely alienated the demographics he'll need to carve a path to the White House.
So well.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Pretty much. Even if it does go to a contested convention (it won't, Hillary will win by a landslide in California) pretty much all the delegates will still vote for Hillary.
In fact, I'll straight up say it...if Donald Trump is elected President, it's Bernie Sanders' fault.
In fact, I'll straight up say it...if Donald Trump is elected President, it's Bernie Sanders' fault.
I thought this was going to be the excuse for Hillary if Bernie ran third party, are you sure you want to be putting her up against Trump?
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