So do I. I think it's entirely reasonable to conclude that the majority does not prefer Sanders on the evidence that he isn't the presumptive nominee. If they did, he would be. This isn't actually that complicated.
Hillary Clinton to CNN: "I will be the nominee"
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So do I. I think it's entirely reasonable to conclude that the majority does not prefer Sanders on the evidence that he isn't the presumptive nominee. If they did, he would be. This isn't actually that complicated.
Well you were proven to be wrong on every count, at least man up. Making up nonsense and then disappearing into the night is not a good way to debate things. You used to be a lot more grounded in this stuff. Oh well.
Dash_Riprock
Member
It is in Reddit!
excelsiorlef
Member
But it didn't really matter. Sanders got annihilated in the South and all of the states are proportional. So 8 states in a row where he went from 300 down to 200 really didn't matter. Especially when pretty much right after Clinton restored her 300 delegate lead with strong wins in a few large states.
eNut_ButteR
Banned
I think you posted the wrong numbers or haven't been paying attention for the past 8 years.
brainchild
Banned
I didn't abandon the argument because I felt like I was proven wrong. I abandoned the argument because I was frustrated with the conduct in this thread over the dissenting opinions regarding my posts.
It's just tiring and I don't feel like putting up with it, so I don't feel like it's worth my time to try and continue in earnest when I'm being treated so immaturely.
Feel free to think of me however you see fit.
so BernieorBust#??
Jeffolation
Banned
Sure, and when the primaries are wrapped up and we've experienced months of Hilary and Trump head on who knows where we'll be. Point being GE polling will matter when we're actually in the thick of things, not this hypothetical barometer of where things stand now before the trajectory of the whole affair is heading in a completely different direction.
Clinton has been under the republican gun for decades. Aside from the occasional shot fired from the republicans at Sanders he really hasn't had to contend with the onslaught of what the right has in store should he be the nominee, which I doubt the GOP really thinks will happen, as much as they may want it to. The lack of offense Sanders has truly faced from the right wing establishment certainly plays into these GE polls, which is why I maintain that they, at this point in time, remain worthless. I do not see his numbers start to climb during the GE when the GOP opens the flood gates of advertising telling America that this godless socialist jew wants to raise taxes on the middle class (soundbite from months back, however right he may have been can be spun as pure poison by the GOP). I truly believe that Sanders as a GE candidate facing the GOP would be disastrous.
And then there's the supreme court.
I've seen you do this kind of weak ass exit every time somebody actually questions your reasoning on something. Pretending you're above it all and being threated unfarily, it's grating to read really.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
You're indistinguishable from the Romney campaign in 2012. I'm gonna let history just sit there as a rebuttal.
Fenderputty
Banned
eNut_ButteR
Banned
Obviously it's hyperbole. But she's morally repugnant enough for me to not feel comfortable casting a vote for her.
brainchild
Banned
Then you haven't seen much of me. I've held extensive arguments (particularly in PoliGAF) where people questioned my reasoning all the time. I welcome constructive discourse and skepticism. That is not why I 'exited' the argument.
But now I'm arguing about why I stopped arguing, which is quite ridiculous!
Dash_Riprock
Member
Mostly cause you get banned so often.
In a proportional race, # of States don't matter, the margins do as does the nature of those states (delegate rich, diverse). Sanders hasn't won a single mainland State that is equally as diverse or more diverse that the nation as a whole and most of the states he has won have been small states. You can't do that and win the Democratic nomination. Frankly, you can't do that an even say you deserve the nomination.
Thanks for the anecdotes at least. That being said, someone has to demonstrate that a statistically significant number of people would he affected by this for it to be even worth bringing up in these sorts of conversations. Super-delegates aren't a new thing, have never overturned the will of the people (and won't without REALLY good reason) and frankly, the vast majority of times I've even heard super-delegates mentioned they make sure to give just a pledge delegate total listed as well. The pledged delegate lead is also absurd. Super-delegates are doing shit so I wish we would drop this line of conversation as its always a distraction in these topics.
I mean......your argument was kind of shit. The post(s) what everybody is replying to right now at least.
I can understand where you're coming from. I am a little disappointed because I did want to discuss it, but honestly, given the tenor of the responses you're getting I would probably walk from the thread as well.
I have to be honest and say that brainchild, for all his foibles, gets dogpiled constantly, and I would not put up with it either. I think brainchild's argument in this thread is clearly incorrect but I'm apparently the only person who bothered to explain why instead of just yelling!
Fenderputty
Banned
More garbage hyperbole.
He's been arguing in polgaf for months. He knows damn well why his argument was weak before anyone commented.
Azure Dream
Member
Wise person. I'm just going to say that from the last few pages, I've seen way more attacks on you as a person than anything else, with anything you say, anything, hand-waved away.
brainchild
Banned
And here we go. Instead of acknowledging posts like these, let's just assume brainchild has a persecution complex and is claiming the high road.
I mean, you're the one who said to "feel free to think of me however you see fit."
Don't get too upset when they do.
ugaboga232
Member
Humans ruin everything! But yea mob psychology and emotional arguing dominates even the best sourced and intentioned people.
Aaronology
Member
Who did you vote for in the last several presidential elections, Butter?
These aren't new arguments. They've been presented and debunked over and over and over again in multiple political OT topics. We are kind of in a rut with looping topics and looping conversations with often the same people taking the same positions. Honestly I should probably just avoid these topics but sometimes I'm stupid. Tonight is one of those nights
Dash_Riprock
Member
Uh...what?
balladofwindfishes
Member
People have responded to your arguments without insults or personal attacks, but you haven't replied to them.
brainchild
Banned
At this point, I just thought it was opportune to point out an blatant example of what I was talking about. That poster is still free to think whatever he/she wants.
Anyway, I'll stop shitting up this thread with my personal grievances now.
Peace
Aaronology
Member
This is possible. Why do you think it is probable, though? Do you believe Trump will win minorities and women? What states are you expecting to be in play for him?
Elaborate.
She has too much political baggage to win over independents?
googleplex
Member
Ugh....I think am just about done with Sander supporters. I just can't do it anymore.
Well, there also have been a lot of personal attacks, so I can understand his reticence.
Vestal
Junior Member
I can't I just... I...
How many times must this point be made before people fucking understand it?!?!
Bernie has not been put to the fire or scrutiny that Obama was put through in 08 during the primary, or the magnifying glass that Hillary Clinton has been under for over 30 years.
In this fantasy land that Bernie wins the nomination, the next fucking day the Republican Machine spearheaded by goons such as Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, etc will open the fucking Flood gates of the Opposition research that has been done or would have been done.
Hillarys campaign has been fucking kind to this man. They definitely did not go Nuclear as they did back in 08, simply because they never really saw him as a threat.
You think Trump is gonna win independents?
With all the "what about independents?!?!" business, why is it never brought up that Romney beat Obama with independents in 2012 and still handily lost the election? I'm not saying independents don't matter but...........I think we are prescribing more influence to them than they actually have?
Fenderputty
Banned
Part of me wishes I could visit a parallel universe where Bernie win the primary and get slaughtered in the GE because of constant hammer and sickle adds.
I'm not stupid enough to wish this on our current reality.
gutter_trash
Banned
he would get Dukakissed with red banners full of hammers & sickles
She's morally repugnant to someone who thinks a dev putting an insult to Gamer Gate in their game is "shoving politically correct ***** down our throats"?
What exactly is your political leaning?
Silent Chief
Member
The way Bernie has ran his campaign assures he fades right back into oblivion.
BlastProcessing
Member
What do the people who voted for Clinton deserve?
Fenderputty
Banned
Republicans have openly admitted this too. Trump send out encouraging Bernie tweets. They're praying he wins the nom. It's plain as day yet I have to hear about GE polls.
The biggest and most misleading narrative that the media pushes about elections is that the narratives really matter. It's more exciting to play it as a 'race' where the performance of the horses will determine the outcome, but really, unless it was very close to start with almost any element of campaign drama short of catastrophe has no meaningful effect on the outcome. Most elections are less like competitions and more like discovery of what people's preferences already were.
Fortunately, because this is true, it doesn't really matter if Sanders comes home or not. It's not going to have a significant effect on the GE either way, so really not worth getting worked up about.
Fortunately, because this is true, it doesn't really matter if Sanders comes home or not. It's not going to have a significant effect on the GE either way, so really not worth getting worked up about.
Silent Chief
Member
What about the secondary?
googleplex
Member
Seriously. Bernie Sanders really is a terrible candidate for the GE. He's no where near charismatic enough to run the type pf empty and shallow campaign he has run on in the primaries. Sanders would get absolutely destroyed in the GE and set the progressive movement back decades.
Beer Monkey
Member
He lost because non-white voters in Democratic primaries voted 2:1 for Hillary.
If non-white voters voted like the white voters, he'd have won the nomination.
Same thing happened in 2008. If the non-white voters voted like the white voters, Hillary would have beat Obama.
I'm fine with the way things are in this respect.
QuantumZebra
Member
im still writing in Dukakis!!!!
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
Is Sanders' win in WV impressive when you consider 44% of Sanders voters would vote for Trump over Sanders?
https://twitter.com/benchmarkpol/status/730614986481897474
https://twitter.com/benchmarkpol/status/730614986481897474
Substantially less-so.
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