This. 10 years ago I would've been bummed, nowadays I couldn't care less.Bunch of no talent hacks I hope the entire entertainment industry is burned to the ground.
Of course it's Netflix.From what I read, Netflix is holding up the negotiations. Not wanting to pay the writers. Meanwhile, most of their original content DEPENDS on those writers.
And y'all wanting the industry to burn, say good bye to Scorsese, Spielberg, Nolan, etc. They don't do all their writing on their own, if they even write any of their scripts.
That's sub services for you that operate on debt or very, very thin margins. Wait until this comes to gaming.From what I read, Netflix is holding up the negotiations. Not wanting to pay the writers. Meanwhile, most of their original content DEPENDS on those writers.
And y'all wanting the industry to burn, say good bye to Scorsese, Spielberg, Nolan, etc. They don't do all their writing on their own, if they even write any of their scripts.
This video from Vox provides a pretty good rundown:
This video from Vox provides a pretty good rundown:
Yup.TLDR, their problem is LA cost of living and a fear that "diverse" young voices can't afford to move there to write more woke trash without making $330,000 for working half the year, plus a $10,000/year residual check in perpetuity from reruns. They're demanding that not for Seinfeld or Game Of Thrones, but the terrible Hulu original no one has watched or heard of. Also they only want to work a fraction of a year again, cause there is literally 10x more work available to them now, but they believe they shouldn't have to work a whole year for their $330,000 salary cause bossman makes more money than them.
Can't companies hire foreign writers instead? Like from Europe?
Can't companies hire foreign writers instead? Like from Europe?
This video from Vox provides a pretty good rundown:
I believe the other unioned workers; the directors, actors, production teams, etc would then refuse to work with non-union labor. If they all hold the line they can prevent maneuvers like that.Can't companies hire foreign writers instead? Like from Europe?
This is my beef with a lot of current shows that ALL chase the hypothetical "mass audience" four quadrant appeal. It makes EVERY show kinda mediocre. Give me a couple nerdy, highly focused, gory T&A shows and that will cover me between shows aimed at others. But when every show only has a 20-40% appeal to me, even those that SHOULD be right up my alley like The Witcher, then there is just nothing that makes me loyal.And you know, maybe the industry does need to scale back, there probably are too many shows, too much money chasing after garbage, the shows are just utter trash, almost all of them. But that does mean in the end a lot of these people will have to pack up their bindle and get out of Los Angeles, because there won't be work for them.
Scorsese and Spielberg are ancient and stopped pushing the medium forward more than two decades ago.From what I read, Netflix is holding up the negotiations. Not wanting to pay the writers. Meanwhile, most of their original content DEPENDS on those writers.
And y'all wanting the industry to burn, say good bye to Scorsese, Spielberg, Nolan, etc. They don't do all their writing on their own, if they even write any of their scripts.
Yup.lol these people are basically asking for a 3-5x increase in pay AND perpetual residuals. They're nuts. It's not happening. The industry is not going to fund 500 writing rooms and pay them like peak Seinfeld and Law & Order into perpetuity. It's just not happening, and it's not a matter of fairness or whatever, it's just basic reality.
Like the one woman brought up some broke-ass writer renting a bowtie, I never heard of the show he wrote on. Meanwhile in 1998 find me 10 people who never heard of Friends or Seinfeld. Also, needless to say, the vast majority of shows are not rerun like those. Nobody is watching Orange is the New Black anymore lmao. It's not my fault and it's not their fault, it's just a way the culture has changed.
And you know, maybe the industry does need to scale back, there probably are too many shows, too much money chasing after garbage, the shows are just utter trash, almost all of them. But that does mean in the end a lot of these people will have to pack up their bindle and get out of Los Angeles, because there won't be work for them.
Yup.
That's called entitlement. It happens in every day life, not just jobs and unions.
A lot of people think that just because they do something that everyone else in the world has to like it and pay them good money for it. Well, most jobs in the world arent even unionized and tons of people get through life with good paying jobs that have probably never been unionized ever in history (most sales, marketing, finance, HR, tech, legal depts). If they can get offered good wages right off the bat, it shows companies will pay good money to hire and retain people.
If some people get offered bad wages and unstable job security, well it means you're kind of shit and replaceable. Simple as that. And anything to do with media is a very hit and miss kind of output. Some shows and movies do great. Some are garbage. Just about every person in Hollywood seems to be part of good and bad productions, so that proves to management it's not a stable kind of industry. Only the proven stars get $20 million offers, while lighting crew dude, b-list actor or writer gal get paid low wages with no job security. If the back end employees were so great, they'd be getting millions each and the all-star actors and actresses would be the ones getting $30,000.
In no other job industry does someone get perpetual royalties for work. You do your work, get paid and thats it. And if you leave the company, you definitely get nothing more. I dont see sales reps get royalties till the age of 80 for that account they signed up 40 years ago even though he was the one doing the grunt work in 1983. I dont see any marketing managers who introduce new products get paid a forever cut of sales because they were the cornerstone person launching the product.
But in media, you got this "I want big money and royalties for life so I can coast"
I'd argue that a writer gig is waaaaay more like an office job than a blue collar one. Any WHY do they need agents and managers? Maybe in the old days it was necessary because the booze and coke fueled hollywood execs couldn't be arsed to do anything but talk to the same 3 talent reps feeding them young starlets to abuse so writers had little choice but play the game, but TODAY that entire system of agents and "management" seems ridiculous and parasitical. It's kinda like real estate agents skimming that 3%+3% off every home sale. Sure, pre-internet they had a place, but now I can go to Zillow and find out all I need as a buyer and sellers can watch a youtube vid about how to showcase a house so it all seems far less critical. Of course I'm bitter because my last house sold in about 10.5 seconds so it REALLY hurt writing that 5 figure check to some ladies doing the gig part time and that put in all of 6 hours of effort max. Sure, they may go 5 months before they close another house but is it really MY problem to cover them for that time because they chose a "feast/famine" career?Serious question: have you always worked office jobs?
I ask that because most of what you listed as examples of jobs are all office jobs. No janitorial, no restaurant, no brick layer, construction, carpenter, plumber, warehouse worker, package delivery, etc. You get paid the wages you get... Sometimes you get a performance review and a pay bump which could be as little as 25 cents per quarter or a dollar or 2 a year. That's IF they pay above state or federal minimum wage.
People in office jobs get paid a lot more than people working blue collar jobs... Not saying that's not fair but a livable wage is the goal.
Back when the minimum wage was instated, it was to provide men with families of 4 a wage to live off of. You can look it up if you don't believe me. It was NEVER something "for kids". Many adults are forced to work jobs for minimum wage (or slightly above it) in 2023 because the wage hasn't kept up with inflation since the late '70s.
Maybe your office jobs have been great but for MANY people, they aren't. Which is why they unionize. Not everyone can just quit and find a new job. Not everyone can just up and move to a new city or state in search of a better paying job. While some can go back to college, thanks some perks some jobs offer, they're still working the same job that pays them the same wage. Florida is raising theirs to $15/hr but because their minimum wage didn't keep up with inflation, it never caught up with the cost of living ... That metric has increased by A LOT in the last decade. You either have to have a really good job to afford an apt that's not in a bad neighborhood or you have to have a 2 or 3 income household.
Unions are important, whether you want to realize that or not.
But to buttress your point about "no other industry does this stuff..." That's exactly the point. Because of the way movies and TV shows are made, they CAN'T be like an office job at a brokerage firm or a warehouse job. That lump sum payment they get? A percentage goes to their agent, manager etc. That leaves them with less money to work with. Hollywood has NEVER worked how your job might. They HAD to unionize (just like how the directors and actors did) so they could get fair wages and such.
You KNOW that profit is the main motivator behind most corporations, the same is true of Hollywood... They will screw over every writer, director and actor if it meant they get to keep more of the money in their pockets... Some of the very industries like railroads have done exactly that! If they could have us all as slaves, they would. No doubt about it. Anyone NOT in an office would suffer.
Ok, I'm done.
I have ADHD so if the above paragraphs meander, that's why.
I'd argue that a writer gig is waaaaay more like an office job than a blue collar one. Any WHY do they need agents and managers? Maybe in the old days it was necessary because the booze and coke fueled hollywood execs couldn't be arsed to do anything but talk to the same 3 talent reps feeding them young starlets to abuse so writers had little choice but play the game, but TODAY that entire system of agents and "management" seems ridiculous and parasitical. It's kinda like real estate agents skimming that 3%+3% off every home sale. Sure, pre-internet they had a place, but now I can go to Zillow and find out all I need as a buyer and sellers can watch a youtube vid about how to showcase a house so it all seems far less critical. Of course I'm bitter because my last house sold in about 10.5 seconds so it REALLY hurt writing that 5 figure check to some ladies doing the gig part time and that put in all of 6 hours of effort max. Sure, they may go 5 months before they close another house but is it really MY problem to cover them for that time because they chose a "feast/famine" career?
Anyway, as this thing stretches on and on, I'm curious what the multitude of streamers will do in 6-12 months when there is nothing new. Foreign stuff obviously, but can they just dust off a copy of a Shakespeare play and use that as a shooting script (didn't Whedon do this at his house during the last strike)? Are there drawers and drawers full of completed scripts they can access and somehow sidestep any need for a re-write as "on set improvisation"? Clearly lots of TV shows are written only when the show is green-lit, but films and maybe anthology shows could probably keep rolling, and of course producer "written" reality shows will gain yet another rung up on american TV.
No need, they will skip that part and go right to AI.
Honestly, AI would seemingly do a better job than the nu writers. Then again, AI is already compromised with some of the same things since it's a human inputted creation.Then how would we get slacktivist writing in all our Disney movies?
No, we need the lazy, shitty writers of modern Hollywood!
Honestly, AI would seemingly do a better job than the nu writers. Then again, AI is already compromised with some of the same things since it's a human inputted creation.
My career jobs are all office finance roles. But growing up during school I’ve done: busboy, waiter, general labourer, assembly line guy, packager in a wholesaler, college marketing guy (the guy who stands at a booth giving out free samples), RRSP application data processor. Probably some more I missed. These jobs paid anywhere from minimum wage to $10/hr in the 90s. In Canada the min wage back then in Ontario was like $6-7. The best paying job was actually being a waiter where if you include tips I was making probably $25/hr in 1994.Serious question: have you always worked office jobs?
I ask that because most of what you listed as examples of jobs are all office jobs. No janitorial, no restaurant, no brick layer, construction, carpenter, plumber, warehouse worker, package delivery, etc. You get paid the wages you get... Sometimes you get a performance review and a pay bump which could be as little as 25 cents per quarter or a dollar or 2 a year. That's IF they pay above state or federal minimum wage.
People in office jobs get paid a lot more than people working blue collar jobs... Not saying that's not fair but a livable wage is the goal.
Back when the minimum wage was instated, it was to provide men with families of 4 a wage to live off of. You can look it up if you don't believe me. It was NEVER something "for kids". Many adults are forced to work jobs for minimum wage (or slightly above it) in 2023 because the wage hasn't kept up with inflation since the late '70s.
Maybe your office jobs have been great but for MANY people, they aren't. Which is why they unionize. Not everyone can just quit and find a new job. Not everyone can just up and move to a new city or state in search of a better paying job. While some can go back to college, thanks some perks some jobs offer, they're still working the same job that pays them the same wage. Florida is raising theirs to $15/hr but because their minimum wage didn't keep up with inflation, it never caught up with the cost of living ... That metric has increased by A LOT in the last decade. You either have to have a really good job to afford an apt that's not in a bad neighborhood or you have to have a 2 or 3 income household.
Unions are important, whether you want to realize that or not.
But to buttress your point about "no other industry does this stuff..." That's exactly the point. Because of the way movies and TV shows are made, they CAN'T be like an office job at a brokerage firm or a warehouse job. That lump sum payment they get? A percentage goes to their agent, manager etc. That leaves them with less money to work with. Hollywood has NEVER worked how your job might. They HAD to unionize (just like how the directors and actors did) so they could get fair wages and such.
You KNOW that profit is the main motivator behind most corporations, the same is true of Hollywood... They will screw over every writer, director and actor if it meant they get to keep more of the money in their pockets... Some of the very industries like railroads have done exactly that! If they could have us all as slaves, they would. No doubt about it. Anyone NOT in an office would suffer.
Ok, I'm done.
I have ADHD so if the above paragraphs meander, that's why.
Well, personally, if they are striking then they cant really dictate what the producers do, IMHO. My dad got called up to do line work during strikes. As a supervisor he could do that work, thoigh the company wisely shifted him to an area he didn't know anyone to avoid a sup having to do the work of their own techs. But just because the techs were striking didnt mean no one could do their job. A little different than hiring scabs to fill in as well.On set improvisation is not allowed during the WGA strike... That's basically writing the script on the fly. That's why Ryan Reynolds isn't allowed to do it while currently filming Deadpool 3.
Rather hoping SAG AFTRA retain a set of balls and go on strike too. Hollywood needs a big upheaval to shake out the worst offenders, and rebalance the way the industry functions, so a nice big, fat actors strike on top of the writer's strike would put the cat among the pigeons.
Mind you, actors are a fickle, self centred bunch, so they'll probably strike a last minute deal.
I can understand that sentiment from the outside. Unfortunately the writer's strike has caused many many of my collegues and hundreds of vfx jobs industry wide to be lost, with no end in sight as to when work will pick up again. This thing is utterly devastating for my line of work and an actor's strike would be the final nail in the coffin, myself and everybody else still hanging on would be screwed as well.
Currently praying for a resolution to the SAG Aftra negotiations.
You should be praying that the writers get a better deal too.
Absolutely I want that side resolved as well, but actors going on strike is the nulcear option, the whole industry will grind to a halt and everybody will be out of work
I read this earlier. This part is especially brutal:Not looking good, seems like the actors are going on strike
SAG-AFTRA Agrees To Federal Mediation With Studios But Won’t Extend Strike Deadline
SAG-AFTRA has agreed to federal mediation in order the break the bargaining deadlock with the Hollywood studios but won't extend strike deadline.deadline.com
I think modern day writers are creatively bankrupt but... damn. The execs are just aiming for the "biggest scums of the earth" award.“The endgame is to allow things to drag on until union members start losing their apartments and losing their houses,” a studio executive told Deadline. Acknowledging the cold-as-ice approach, several other sources reiterated the statement. One insider called it “a cruel but necessary evil.”
I think modern day writers are creatively bankrupt but... damn. The execs are just aiming for the "biggest scums of the earth" award.
I read this earlier. This part is especially brutal:
I think modern day writers are creatively bankrupt but... damn. The execs are just aiming for the "biggest scums of the earth" award.
Not looking good, seems like the actors are going on strike
SAG-AFTRA Agrees To Federal Mediation With Studios But Won’t Extend Strike Deadline
SAG-AFTRA has agreed to federal mediation in order the break the bargaining deadlock with the Hollywood studios but won't extend strike deadline.deadline.com
Guess they should stop buying avocado toast, then.The problem is that the studios are struggling as well. Theatrical box office is a dodgy prospect with film budgets in the hundreds of millions and a global return almost mandatory. The mainstay home vhs/dvd/BR market is in total freefall and streaming is taking big hits now as well. So the execs are trying to tighten the belt right as these writers want more of the pie. It's baaaaaaaad timing IMHO. Foreign production is ready to come in, reality TV is only growing, youtube amateur stuff is a MONSTER, the old studio system is on shaky grounds and this may kill it.
Get ready for Chin(a)ese studios to sweep in and take it ALL, see what those writers get paid then....
Goes for the writers as well?Guess they should stop buying avocado toast, then.
Goes for the writers as well?
Hollywood as an automatic cash cow is a myth now that these studios are wrapped up in the fortunes of much larger companies that can't/won't tolerate anything less than astounding returns.