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[StreetsofBeige]

Well what they're trying to do is get contracts to state they can't use their voice to train AI's which is what companies are asking for, they're literally asking people to train the thing that will take their job, you can see why they'd be pissed off in that case.

When I got let go during a restructuring, I trained my replacement. A new hire definitely cheaper than I was. And back then I wasnt even making great money to begin with. But they still went cheaper and greener.

What a crazy concept. I got a new job elsewhere.

 

[Artoris]

No. You can't. If you're not a creative writer, you can't do that job. Plus you have to know how to structure and write a screenplay.

Like I said, this ish is NOT easy. Especially if you want to write something good like Yellowstone.

Sure you can, you just copy what has been done before then make few chances to fit the present agendas

 

[YCoCg]

When I got let go during a restructuring, I trained my replacement. A new hire definitely cheaper than I was. And back then I wasnt even making great money to begin with. But they still went cheaper and greener.

What a crazy concept. I got a new job elsewhere.

Then no offense but unless it was in your contract to provide training then you sound like a right mug. Also crazy thought but maybe some people actually LIKE their jobs and want to stick with it and don't want to be a pushover?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Then no offense but unless it was in your contract to provide training then you sound like a right mug. Also crazy thought but maybe some people actually LIKE their jobs and want to stick with it and don't want to be a pushover?

Fair point.

But life thats not how it works. One of my most fun jobs was a summer job where me a coworker drove a van around town giving out samples and setting up kiosks. You know those jobs where suddenly there's a desk or tent and some young people wearing a branded tshirts are giving out free swag and food to promote products? That was me and a shitload of other university students doing it.

If that job paid great, I'd be doing it now. But it paid like $12/hr and the district supervisor got paid $15/hr (basically someone like me who had been there maybe a year longer). I actually got offered one of the supervisor jobs when I said I'm quitting and going back to school in September. What am I going to do? Demand $50/hr? No. The job pays that and so be it. Time to move on.

Problem is people are stubborn and think every company should give what they want. If you are good enough, they will. You wont even need a union contract. Most people arent even unionized, but it's not like we all make minimum wage. I make more money than most union members and the only membership I have is a Costco card.

When I got restructured out, I was one of the few people who got extended terms. If I stuck around an extra month to smooth things over and train the newbie, they gave me a modest bonus pay out. We also agreed that during that time I can take time off for any interviews I get. They said no problem. The new job I got a month after my last day I even used my boss as a reference. No issues. So even though they gassed me, they also gave me a break to help me with my next job.

Sometimes you might need to make a change in life. You can hold firm, or embrace change. And if you embrace it well enough, opportunities can pop up and people will help you out.

In my opinion, do the right thing, be professional and be chill.

Here's another example, one of my summer jobs I worked an assembly line for minimum wage. I was making I thin $5.85/hr (Edit, I checked google and I must had been paid $6.35/hr... I think the $5.85 was when I worked in a restaurant and got a gimped wage as restaurant workers at the time could be paid lower). Were talking like early 90s Ontario. I found out the company even got student subsidies so theres possibility the government might had covered my entire summer wage. I dont know. I worked the evening shift from 4 to midnight. Hardly anyone worked that shift. And there were no real bosses that shift. The supervisors were unionized guys who didn't give a shit and shut down their machines early. I went longer. Not to brown nose. Its not like they are paying me more if I make more. And Im definitely not coming back next year. I could had sat on my ass all evening for 3 months eating McDonalds and nobody would give a shit. The unionized guys even told to shut down an hour early like them because I was making more product. What they'd do is shut down early and then reading a Toronto Sun for an hour and punch out. I worked till 15 minutes before closing, then shut down, cleaned my station, and logged my count into a binder.

Now some students would had just goofed around not giving a shit since it makes no difference. But for me, hey man. Put in some effort even if it was a shitty job at 18 years old. I knew I was never coming back, but the guy who hired me (I remember his name was Don!) even told me on the way out if I ever wanted to come back just call him. I never spoke to him again, but hey I appreciated his offer on my last day.

 

[DeafTourette]

Youre pissed off the correct answer is to find another job?

Believe it or not. Just because people get job crunched due to technology or downsized (been there, done that) doesn't mean they cant find employment elsewhere to pay the bills.

I know guys who changed careers and it wasnt even due to being fired or automation. They did it because they had enough of the office grind and both (by pure coincidence) went into the medical field. One guy even went back to school for 4 years to get a new degree. Things change.

How can you expect the world to stay status quo forever where everyone says to the world "Please progress. But if it involves messing up my situation, then dont do it"?

No. I was pissed off because you suggested that *I* would suggest they stay home and collect welfare. I don't remember if you're in the US or Canada but HERE in the US, there's a stereotype of black people on welfare (even though majority on it are white).

That said... No I wouldn't suggest that. I'd suggest they write other things and supplant a lot of Hollywood things...

Remember, part of the reason of the strike is that streaming services low-ball pay compared to the rest of Hollywood (networks, theatrical and cable).

If they're replaced by AI, they'll have to adapt but that's no guarantee they'll get figure it out.

And just suggesting they do retail or whatever... That would mean a mass exodus from California (cost of living) ...

You also have to understand that writing is a dream for many ... It's not just a job or a gig. It's a passion! I'm a writer (not of TV or movies... Yet) but when it's something you LOVE, you don't want to give it up... Especially when you can make a living on it.

And as I told someone else, writing is NOT easy. There's tons of movies I really like that have "messages" across the pol spectrum... It makes no difference to me. A good story is a good story. Some folks just need to take a beat and stop freaking out over an all black cast or an all Asian cast when most of Hollywood for THE LONGEST was all white casts for major releases. Some still are all white casts in modern day settings.

Anyway... I'm tired. Most of you lot aren't writers or creative type people... So I really don't expect y'all to understand the reasons for the strike and drawing wrong conclusions based on how much y'all dislike certain genres or specific companies.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No. I was pissed off because you suggested that *I* would suggest they stay home and collect welfare. I don't remember if you're in the US or Canada but HERE in the US, there's a stereotype of black people on welfare (even though majority on it are white).

That said... No I wouldn't suggest that. I'd suggest they write other things and supplant a lot of Hollywood things...

Remember, part of the reason of the strike is that streaming services low-ball pay compared to the rest of Hollywood (networks, theatrical and cable).

If they're replaced by AI, they'll have to adapt but that's no guarantee they'll get figure it out.

And just suggesting they do retail or whatever... That would mean a mass exodus from California (cost of living) ...

You also have to understand that writing is a dream for many ... It's not just a job or a gig. It's a passion! I'm a writer (not of TV or movies... Yet) but when it's something you LOVE, you don't want to give it up... Especially when you can make a living on it.

And as I told someone else, writing is NOT easy. There's tons of movies I really like that have "messages" across the pol spectrum... It makes no difference to me. A good story is a good story. Some folks just need to take a beat and stop freaking out over an all black cast or an all Asian cast when most of Hollywood for THE LONGEST was all white casts for major releases. Some still are all white casts in modern day settings.

Anyway... I'm tired. Most of you lot aren't writers or creative type people... So I really don't expect y'all to understand the reasons for the strike and drawing wrong conclusions based on how much y'all dislike certain genres or specific companies.

If you really think that post I made to you was a racially motivated remark as opposed to a general comment regarding anyone, Id suggest dont look into things that seriously.

 

[DeafTourette]

If you really think that post I made to you was a racially motivated remark as opposed to a general comment regarding anyone, Id suggest dont look into things that seriously.

After I calmed down, I realized you weren't doing that. But just because I'm not conservative doesn't mean I would suggest "oi, go sit on your arse and get that welfare check" ...

I explained what I would have suggested in my post.

 

[Gamerfan81]

The studios should hold firm and look into the video game publishers against Sag-aftra. The actors union demanded residuals and many were even delusional thinking that they were far more important than devs. After a year of a strike the video game publishers gave very little in concessions and definitely not on the issue of residuals.

 

[Nico_D]

The money they earn seem to be ok though I don't what the cost of living in something like LA is.

I think the problem, is like someone already said, job security. But also a salary envy: if actors make at least 10x that for an episode that wouldn't exist without the writer, I understand how that might feel unfair.

 

[Toons]

And there you go.

If AI scripts are that bad, then no media company is going to bother using it even if free. They'll stick to human made stories.

You're making the same mistake again, assuming the studio execs care about quality.

You're wrong. They don't care if rhe scripts are "bad". They care if the scripts do numbers.

If they can save millions by having AI pump out garbage that does numbers.. they will. It was never about the quality for these types. They will use it as much as they can if it means they save money. Even if it's garbage.

The result is, we get less quality art, the rich get richer, the actual creatures get poorer, and no one wins who should be winning.

 

[FunkMiller]

This thread is the worst kind on GAF, because it’s powered by political opinion, only it’s just far enough removed from direct politics that it doesn’t get locked.

Here’s the truth:

Just because a lot of writers in Hollywood are putting out woke crap, it doesn’t mean all writers in Hollywood should be treated with contempt. Would you be celebrating the strike so much, and enjoying writers getting fucked over, if you’d been watching a lot of stuff you really enjoyed recently? Because the writers would still would be under the current terms the studios are offering.

If a movie or tv show becomes extremely successful, the writers deserve their fair share of the profits. They are not currently getting them. That is the heart of this issue.

AI bots are not going to be able to replace human writers… even the woke ones. If you’re cheering that future on, then you’re cheering on a bleak one, based on your distaste of current political agendas. Ones that will eventually die out.

I can‘t stand a lot of the output these days, but it’ll change (because very few people want it) and you’re going to want writers to be well paid when that change happens, otherwise you’re never getting anything good again. If they’ve all fucked off because of this strike, then you’ll be watching reality TV for the rest of your days.

 

[Azurro]

I have to agree, writing isn't easy. That's why most of these hacks at Hollywood aren't good at it and why money is running out.

 

[funkygunther]

Also up for any battle that involves the potential slashing of c-suite bonuses.

 

[jason10mm]

I don't think the yea or nay folks are strictly politically aligned, it's more about the perspective of whether you think writers are already adequately compensated for their labor or not.

If anything, the "quality" of hollywood/TV output has only declined since the last strike so I'm not optimistic about this one. Streaming services are always gonna prioritize quantity over quality and that doesn't bode well for the writers.

 

[thefool]

Hollywood never really recovered from the last strike and it was taken-over by the clinically insane, fundamentally reshaping the industry. We're going through the darkest era of cinema and there's no end in sight.

Throw these unions into the trash, where they belong, and start over. At this point, even old studio system would be better.

With so much talent worldwide, it doesn't make any sense for studios to be hostages to these lunatics.

 

[Azurro]

I've only put a bit of attention into this, but apparently they want a minimal amount of 6 writers per project and they also want to approve the type of content they write.

So, not only do they want to hire way more people than necessary, they also want to be able to continue spreading their ideology even if corporate is losing money on it. They are absolutely insane.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I've only put a bit of attention into this, but apparently they want a minimal amount of 6 writers per project and they also want to approve the type of content they write.

So, not only do they want to hire way more people than necessary, they also want to be able to continue spreading their ideology even if corporate is losing money on it. They are absolutely insane.

that is the negotiation. what really matters are the residuals.

 

[Azurro]

that is the negotiation. what really matters are the residuals.

What residuals? Streaming services are losing money, or at the very least most of them. I just can't see how they will able to get that, plus the ban of AI, plus the insane requirement to veto content they work on and minimal hiring numbers.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I've only put a bit of attention into this, but apparently they want a minimal amount of 6 writers per project and they also want to approve the type of content they write.

So, not only do they want to hire way more people than necessary, they also want to be able to continue spreading their ideology even if corporate is losing money on it. They are absolutely insane.

Thats the kind of demands you get from union kinds of people. Ask for stupidly insane demands and hope corporate skews to something high. In other words, the logic is the higher the crazy demand, the higher corporate will counter with something good. Good luck. And now everyone can understand why management hates dealing with unions.

If I want a pay raise at work and every year they give me 2%. If I really think I am awesome and deserve more (without getting a promotion and big rank boost which puts me into a new pay band), I might say 5%. If scouring market salaries and I'm totally underpaid, I might even do 10%. But that's kind of it and reaosnable.

I dont go in saying I want +30%, ownership of work, royalties, job security against AI, and out of scope shit. Management would be like WTF you talking about. Come back with a reasonable request.

In the business world, you dont go ape shit with weird demands either. When a sales rep and Walmart wheel and deal on a box of cookies, Walmart doesn't say sell me a box of Oreos for a nickel and the rep says I want to sell to you at $8. A reasonable agreement might be somewhere in that $1.33 to $1.54 range where it's currently at $1.42.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

What residuals? Streaming services are losing money or at the very least most of them. I just can't see how they will able to get that, plus the ban of AI, plus the insane requirement to veto content they work on, and minimal hiring numbers.

If there was only one thing they had to fight to the death for, it would be residuals.

companies still eagerly jump on the streaming bandwagon, thinking it was going to be free money. Let's not forget that Scarlett Johansson sued Disney and won.

the business model of streaming has to adjust to the reality of the situation. Iger, Zaslav had made references to this.

I think there is more nuanced in tne used of A.I.

 

[jason10mm]

If there was only one thing they had to fight to the death for, it would be residuals.

companies still eagerly jump on the streaming bandwagon, thinking it was going to be free money. Let's not forget that Scarlett Johansson sued Disney and won.

the business model of streaming has to adjust to the reality of the situation. Iger, Zaslav had made references to this.

I think there is more nuanced in tne used of A.I.

The problem is multifactoral. TV these days doesn't have the potential for syndication because it is far less episodic and just lacks that "comfort TV on in the background" quality, folks can find and watch stuff outside the normal airing window do you don't have to wait for syndication/reruns anymore, and the episode count for a lucrative syndication deal (used to be 100 eps/5 seasons) doesn't happen much. So much these days is designed for immediate consumption and disposal, plus lots of streamers are TECHNOLOGY companies trying to make an entertainment product versus ENTERTAINMENT companies that use external distribution. The former can't help but sacrifice long term quality for immediate algorithm driven results, its the nature of the business to expect "New" to trump "old" in almost every case. But an entertainment company has a better recognition of name brand, catalogue power, and letting things breathe and finding its audience. Alas, in the streaming world they know EXACTLY when folks tune out so they have all sorts of rules for engagement that cramp the viewing experience for the actual creatives. Plus global reach streamers can't help but homogenize their product to try to reach the max number of viewers at the cost of not strongly appealing to anyone. Savvy viewers want authenticity, not token acknowledgement, in a way that the big streamers just can't comprehend.

Throw in youtube, my kids will grow up with a nostalgic feeling for bizarre chaotic 10 minute experiences, not so much for cartoons, sitcoms, or shows. This will start to severely pinch off the major networks as their stable of reliable audience viewers dies off and isn't replaced. The youtube model is $$$ for clicks, which is what I THINK will work better for streamers but of course that makes it hard for the studio to sell a show for big bucks if it performs poorly and for a streaming service to properly gauge a subscription price because high volume viewers would cost them a ton in microtransaction "payments" (not to mention it GROSSLY overpays just a popular few and almost everyone else is getting scraps). The hybrid model of subscription PLUS ads just makes everyone pissed.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The problem is multifactoral. TV these days doesn't have the potential for syndication because it is far less episodic and just lacks that "comfort TV on in the background" quality, folks can find and watch stuff outside the normal airing window do you don't have to wait for syndication/reruns anymore, and the episode count for a lucrative syndication deal (used to be 100 eps/5 seasons) doesn't happen much. So much these days is designed for immediate consumption and disposal, plus lots of streamers are TECHNOLOGY companies trying to make an entertainment product versus ENTERTAINMENT companies that use external distribution. The former can't help but sacrifice long term quality for immediate algorithm driven results, its the nature of the business to expect "New" to trump "old" in almost every case. But an entertainment company has a better recognition of name brand, catalogue power, and letting things breathe and finding its audience. Alas, in the streaming world they know EXACTLY when folks tune out so they have all sorts of rules for engagement that cramp the viewing experience for the actual creatives. Plus global reach streamers can't help but homogenize their product to try to reach the max number of viewers at the cost of not strongly appealing to anyone. Savvy viewers want authenticity, not token acknowledgement, in a way that the big streamers just can't comprehend.

Throw in youtube, my kids will grow up with a nostalgic feeling for bizarre chaotic 10 minute experiences, not so much for cartoons, sitcoms, or shows. This will start to severely pinch off the major networks as their stable of reliable audience viewers dies off and isn't replaced. The youtube model is $$$ for clicks, which is what I THINK will work better for streamers but of course that makes it hard for the studio to sell a show for big bucks if it performs poorly and for a streaming service to properly gauge a subscription price because high volume viewers would cost them a ton in microtransaction "payments" (not to mention it GROSSLY overpays just a popular few and almost everyone else is getting scraps). The hybrid model of subscription PLUS ads just makes everyone pissed.

of course is multifactorial. The issue is that streaming fuck up the system that worked.

at the end of the day they need to figure things out.

i dunno (i know) why some people are rooting for companies to win, especially when is about people fighting for their livelihood.

 

[jason10mm]

i dunno (i know) why some people are rooting for companies to win, especially when is about people fighting for their livelihood.

I don't think anyone here wants the STUDIOS to win, they just don't care much for the writers "plight" when placed into context with lots of other industries. The Hollywood elite are rife with totally corrupt pedos, but the writers, as a general group, have been churning out lazily written pandering crap taking easy potshots at specific groups with little to no critical insight and displaying an astonishing lack of understanding of how their "audience" actually thinks. So maybe taking some time away from the writing room echo chamber and getting out to do some manual labor and take in the struggles and aspirations of the average american will allow them to inject relatability, humanity, and realism into their product as well as get an appreciation for their own privilege and responsibility for being able to voice the thoughts of millions on screen.

One can simultaneously disagree with the need for a writers strike AND believe that Hollywood as a corporate concept needs serious revamping.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I don't think anyone here wants the STUDIOS to win, they just don't care much for the writers "plight" when placed into context with lots of other industries. The Hollywood elite are rife with totally corrupt pedos, but the writers, as a general group, have been churning out lazily written pandering crap taking easy potshots at specific groups with little to no critical insight and displaying an astonishing lack of understanding of how their "audience" actually thinks. So maybe taking some time away from the writing room echo chamber and getting out to do some manual labor and take in the struggles and aspirations of the average american will allow them to inject relatability, humanity, and realism into their product as well as get an appreciation for their own privilege and responsibility for being able to voice the thoughts of millions on screen.

One can simultaneously disagree with the need for a writers strike AND believe that Hollywood as a corporate concept needs serious revamping.

i knew this shit is going to come up.... The ideology bullshit is outside this conversation as well as the pedos or/and sexual predators in positions of power.

i am talking about the business side of things.

 

[Gamerfan81]

From what I gathered their list of demands are:

Higher pay
A revamping of the residual system
A quota system where the companies have to hire a specific number of people
Banning of certain technologies that they see as threatening to them such as AI
Shorter exclusivity deals (they don't want certain shows to be 8 episodes but the usual 22-25 like in years past)
https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles...cle_73a58f7f-40e7-57d7-b415-266ab397e918.html

All this while inserting agendas, propaganda, and inserting divisive issues like race, sex, religion, identity politics, sexual orientation, race/ethnic swapping of established characters even historical figures, etc.

Really hard to sympathize with this group.

 

[FunkMiller]

I don't think anyone here wants the STUDIOS to win, they just don't care much for the writers "plight" when placed into context with lots of other industries. The Hollywood elite are rife with totally corrupt pedos, but the writers, as a general group, have been churning out lazily written pandering crap taking easy potshots at specific groups with little to no critical insight and displaying an astonishing lack of understanding of how their "audience" actually thinks. So maybe taking some time away from the writing room echo chamber and getting out to do some manual labor and take in the struggles and aspirations of the average american will allow them to inject relatability, humanity, and realism into their product as well as get an appreciation for their own privilege and responsibility for being able to voice the thoughts of millions on screen.

One can simultaneously disagree with the need for a writers strike AND believe that Hollywood as a corporate concept needs serious revamping.

Thanks for neatly exemplifying the point I made above. Your opinion on the matter is entirely poisoned by politics. Writers as a general group have been churning out lazily written pandering crap? What kind of monkey ass generalisation is that?

Not everything being made by Hollywood is woke, pandering crap. There’s a lot of good stuff still being made… but fuck all of them, if the woketards get screwed, eh?

I bet if you’d been watching lots of stuff that really appealed to you, you’d be singing a different tune. And it’d be the people on sites like Era who would be cheering the idea of writers getting fucked. And they’d be equally wrong.

Every single little thing these days is corrupted by echo chamber politics. This strike is not a political matter, no matter how much people want it to be because they are desperate to make everything about their biases.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don't think anyone here wants the STUDIOS to win, they just don't care much for the writers "plight" when placed into context with lots of other industries. The Hollywood elite are rife with totally corrupt pedos, but the writers, as a general group, have been churning out lazily written pandering crap taking easy potshots at specific groups with little to no critical insight and displaying an astonishing lack of understanding of how their "audience" actually thinks. So maybe taking some time away from the writing room echo chamber and getting out to do some manual labor and take in the struggles and aspirations of the average american will allow them to inject relatability, humanity, and realism into their product as well as get an appreciation for their own privilege and responsibility for being able to voice the thoughts of millions on screen.

One can simultaneously disagree with the need for a writers strike AND believe that Hollywood as a corporate concept needs serious revamping.

To me, at the end of the day it's really simple.

I dont care if someone is a lawyer, joe six pack or a crossing guard. If you are worth the money you'll get paid. And that comes down to budget, how good someone is and how replaceable they are. As I said in my giant post above when I worked driving a van goofing around with a coworker giving out free chocolate bars downtown, I could be the best sampler dude in the world. It paid $12/hr. I'm not getting much more than that. Ok, maybe I can convince Jeff to give me $13/hr, but I'm not getting $20/hr, $30/hr, royalties per candy bar I give out or job security. If I'm good enough to keep and within budget, I'll get offered something. And I did. I was offered a supevisor job for $15. I said forget it and left.

Put it this way. When I went to grad school, one of my group members (I got her on my Facebook!) worked part time at (get this) taking phone calls to coordindate swimming pool cleaning for homes, condos and community centres. She didn't clean the pools, drive the truck or know anything about pools. She took calls and scheduled service. She was probably 27 years old at the time. This was early 2000s. She was getting paid $25/hr from the swimming pool cleaning company. And no doubt, while we did school she was working all the time. Fuck, I'd work as much as I could too if I got paid $25/hr to field phone calls.

Now someone will say why not pay someone $10/hr? Sounds like the easiest job ever. Who knows. They preferred her at $25. She probably did a good job and was reliable, so she's worth it.

If she could score a pretty basic job making over $20/hr while doing school at the same time, then maybe all the writers who are all insecure about jobs and pay should stop being a writer and do something more stable.

Just because someone likes doing a certain job doesn't mean a company has to pay them a shit ton. If that was the case, I'd be still driving the sample van demanding $80/hr.

 

[jason10mm]

Not everything being made by Hollywood is woke, pandering crap. There’s a lot of good stuff still being made… but fuck all of them, if the woketards get screwed, eh?

I bet if you’d been watching lots of stuff that really appealed to you, you’d be singing a different tune. And it’d be the people on sites like Era who would be cheering the idea of writers getting fucked. And they’d be equally wrong.

Wow, you really dialed into that one, didn't you? I never even used the word "woke"....but you certainly felt attacked like I did.

I'm not against writers. I just feel like they are ALREADY getting a fair shake. I'm hardly advocating that they "get fucked". Are you seriously comparing the struggles of a liberal arts degree holding writer sitting in a comfy room trying to write dialogue between a married couple arguing over who should take out the trash with the LETHAL ENVIRONMENT of a factory worker, circa say 1890, campaigning and striking against their work conditions?

The time when unions tried to enact REAL CHANGE is long gone, every tenet they had has been codified into law. Almost every single writer that I can actually put a name to is doing just fine. That there are SIXTEEN THOUSAND of them in the WGA might be part of the problem. How many projects are there in a year? A THOUSAND across the entire spectrum (450 films and 550 tv shows)? Seems to me that the WGA needs to do some gatekeeping, establish an onboarding program to ensure consistent quality of work, set some standards to reduce access, and generally look inward before screaming outward. So long as there is a line of folks wanting the job with no apparent qualifications to actually DO the job, there is little incentive to pay writers better. The only real hold the WGA has is blacklisting "non-signatories" from using WGA talent and other Guilds standing in lock-step so THEY can also flex against the studios. They operate a lot more like a mafia group than a traditional trades guild IMHO.

 

[jason10mm]

Put it this way. When I went to grad school, one of my group members (I got her on my Facebook!) worked part time at (get this) taking phone calls to coordindate swimming pool cleaning for homes, condos and community centres. She didn't clean the pools, drive the truck or know anything about pools. She took calls and scheduled service. She was probably 27 years old at the time. This was early 2000s. She was getting paid $25/hr from the swimming pool cleaning company. And no doubt, while we did school she was working all the time. Fuck, I'd work as much as I could too if I got paid $25/hr to field phone calls.

NGL, $25/hr to "field phone calls" sounds more like she was given a "make work" job to cover for boning the boss than an actual job

Maybe we can whip out a quick script and take advantage of everyone else on the picket lines

 

[StreetsofBeige]

NGL, $25/hr to "field phone calls" sounds more like she was given a "make work" job to cover for boning the boss than an actual job

Maybe we can whip out a quick script and take advantage of everyone else on the picket lines

LOL. Maybe.

She wasnt bad looking too. Cute tiny girl. I'd do her. I just checked her FB and she's still not bad. Just always plainly dressed. She never seems to doll up. But I do remember back then she could have bad breath sometimes. lol

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Wow, you really dialed into that one, didn't you? I never even used the word "woke"....but you certainly felt attacked like I did.

I'm not against writers. I just feel like they are ALREADY getting a fair shake. I'm hardly advocating that they "get fucked". Are you seriously comparing the struggles of a liberal arts degree holding writer sitting in a comfy room trying to write dialogue between a married couple arguing over who should take out the trash with the LETHAL ENVIRONMENT of a factory worker, circa say 1890, campaigning and striking against their work conditions?

The time when unions tried to enact REAL CHANGE is long gone, every tenet they had has been codified into law. Almost every single writer that I can actually put a name to is doing just fine. That there are SIXTEEN THOUSAND of them in the WGA might be part of the problem. How many projects are there in a year? A THOUSAND across the entire spectrum (450 films and 550 tv shows)? Seems to me that the WGA needs to do some gatekeeping, establish an onboarding program to ensure consistent quality of work, set some standards to reduce access, and generally look inward before screaming outward. So long as there is a line of folks wanting the job with no apparent qualifications to actually DO the job, there is little incentive to pay writers better. The only real hold the WGA has is blacklisting "non-signatories" from using WGA talent and other Guilds standing in lock-step so THEY can also flex against the studios. They operate a lot more like a mafia group than a traditional trades guild IMHO.

16,000? Crazy.

That's probably the issue right there. There's too many grasping for work and not enough content to give everyone a stable FT job. At those same media companies, I'd bet every dollar the typical sales, finance or accounts payable clerk has a more secure job with FT hours than a glammed creators job.

And it makes sense too because anyone can be a writer. I can if I wanted to be. Doesn't mean I'm good at it, but look how many people with zero qualifications or college degrees are influencers just being normal people uploading YT and Tik Tok videos.

On the other hand, there's only so many professional engineers because it takes a ton of education and skill to qualify as one. And no company is going to hire someone without credentials to construct a building without a degree. There's only so many too, so the balance is in check. I've never ever heard of engineering being gimped to rock bottom salaries because there's too many and companies want to be El Cheapo offering them $40,000 to build a bridge. Probably more like $140,000 or $240,000.

You get what you're worth, and it's a mish mash of budget, skills, supply and demand and also one factor I forgot..... reliability. Media creators are a type of profession where you can write a hit piece one season and then the next project it tanks. Most other jobs in the world people work at a predictable performance 52 weeks a year.

 

[Rentahamster]

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2023/05/08/writers-on-set/

I want to say a few words about what I think is THE most important issue in the current writers’ strike: the so-called “mini rooms” that the Guild is hoping to abolish, and the terrible impact they are having on writers at the start of their careers.

A look at my own career may be instructive. For the first fourteen years of my career, I wrote only prose; a few novels, and lots of stories for ANALOG, ASIMOV’S, and various other SF magazines and anthologies. Much as I enjoyed television, I never dreamt of writing for it until 1985, when CBS decided to launch a new version of THE TWLIGHT ZONE, and executive producer Phil DeGuere invited me to write an episode for them. A freelance script; that was how you began back then. I decided to give it a shot… and Phil and his team liked what I did. So much so that within days of delivery, I got an offer to come on staff. Before I quite knew what had happened, I was on my way to LA with a six-week deal as a Staff Writer, at the Guild minimum salary, scripts against. (In the 80s, Staff Writer was the lowest rung on the ladder. You could tell, because it was the only job with “writer” in the title).

There is no film school in the world that could have taught me as much about television production as I learned on TWILIGHT ZONE during that season and a half. When TZ was renewed for a second season, I was promoted from Staff Writer to Story Editor. (More money, and now scripts were plus and not against). Started sitting in on freelance pitches… and now I was allowed to talk and give notes. Sadly, the show was cancelled halfway through the second season, but by that time I had learned so much that I was able to go on to further work in television.

NONE OF IT would have been possible, if not for the things I learned on TWILIGHT ZONE as a Staff Writer and Story Editor. I was the most junior of junior writers, maybe a hot(ish) young writer in the world of SF, but in TV I was so green that I would have been invisible against a green screen. And that, in my opinion, is the most important of the things that the Guild is fighting for. The right to have that kind of career path. To enable new writers, young writers, and yes, prose writers, to climb the same ladder.

Right now, they can’t. Streamers and shortened seasons have blown the ladder to splinters. The way it works now, a show gets put in development, the showrunner assembles a “mini-room,” made up of a couple of senior writers and a couple newcomers, they meet for a month or two, beat out the season, break down the episodes, go off and write scripts, reassemble, get notes, give notes, rewrite, rinse and repeat… and finally turn into the scripts. And show is greenlit (or not, some shows never get past the room) and sent into production. The showrunner and his second, maybe his second and his third, take it from there. The writer producers. The ones who already know all the things that I learned on TWILIGHT ZONE.

Mini-rooms are abominations, and the refusal of the AMPTP to pay writers to stay with their shows through production — as part of the JOB, for which they need to be paid, not as a tourist — is not only wrong, it is incredibly short sighted. If the Story Editors of 2023 are not allowed to get any production experience, where do the studios think the Showrunners of 2033 are going to come from?

If nothing else, the WGA needs to win that on that issue. No matter how long it may take.

 

[jason10mm]

I wonder how much of this "mini-room" stuff is just a result of shorter, more continuous narrative shows. In the days of 22 ep seasons they were writing just a few weeks ahead of shooting and could actually tailor the later eps based on viewer feedback of the episodes that aired. But the brit model of complete scripts for a short series/season doesn't seem like it lends itself to continuous on the fly writing and definitely nothing happens after the show is released. I've seen lots of shows where it seems like the writers for each episode are all working simultaneously, making it hard for writers of later eps to use call backs from earlier ones and foreshadowing/laying groundwork doesn't happen much either. Unless there is a single driving force/writer working the entire thing (True Detective comes to mind) then the current model is inherently dysfunctional. Be interesting to see if this gets abolished and if it results in a better product.

 

[Toons]

of course is multifactorial. The issue is that streaming fuck up the system that worked.

at the end of the day they need to figure things out.

i dunno (i know) why some people are rooting for companies to win, especially when is about people fighting for their livelihood.

They've been conditioned to other people that may not line up with their ideological whims yo the point they would welcome these folks suffering and the thriving of morally corrupt corporations. And that's exactly what some corporations want

 

[Toons]

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2023/05/08/writers-on-set/

Yet another acclaimed writer speaking some truth to this. I've not seen any actual creative go to bat for the corporations on this matter, only spiteful consumers.

 

[Rentahamster]

Yet another acclaimed writer speaking some truth to this. I've not seen any actual creative go to bat for the corporations on this matter, only spiteful consumers.

It's very telling who's opinion about this is based off of mostly feels when their opinion on the matter is contingent on their opinion of the product that these writers produce, when the actual crux of the matter revolves around the process of creation, and the relationship between management and labor in general. Whether or not one likes these shows based on their personal arbitrary and subjective tastes is entirely irrelevant.

 

[natjjohn]

Confused at some of the claims of decline in Hollywood. TV shows seem at an all time high of quality. So much good stuff out there, impossible to watch it all. A lot of bad junk out there I’m sure, but who even has time to notice or care when the amount of high quality stuff is overflowing.

 

[DeafTourette]

Confused at some of the claims of decline in Hollywood. TV shows seem at an all time high of quality. So much good stuff out there, impossible to watch it all. A lot of bad junk out there I’m sure, but who even has time to notice or care when the amount of high quality stuff is overflowing.

Isn't there a thread on here dedicated to Succession? That's one of the more popular shows across political ideologies.

 

[Toons]

Confused at some of the claims of decline in Hollywood. TV shows seem at an all time high of quality. So much good stuff out there, impossible to watch it all. A lot of bad junk out there I’m sure, but who even has time to notice or care when the amount of high quality stuff is overflowing.

Its mostly people who don't watch a ton of stuff but hear about it online in their circles. I dont even watch a ton of the big stuff but I dont automatically dismiss it either. Can't be bothered to try out Yellowstone, but succession im still only two episodes into snd loving.

 

[bitbydeath]

Daredevil, Severance and Hedge Knight have all been impacted.

Strike Disrupts "Daredevil," "Severance," "Knight" - Dark Horizons

With the writer’s strike entering its second week, a bunch of productions are now temporarily pausing or outright shutting down amidst the ongoing industrial action. Marvel and Disney’s high-profile “Daredevil: Born Again” revival series marks the latest New York-based TV series to be impacted...

www.darkhorizons.com

 

[DeafTourette]

Daredevil, Severance and Hedge Knight have all been impacted.

http://[URL]https://www.darkhorizons.com/strike-disrupts-daredevil-severance-knight/

[/URL]

Blade, too.

 

[Lasha]

Thats the kind of demands you get from union kinds of people. Ask for stupidly insane demands and hope corporate skews to something high. In other words, the logic is the higher the crazy demand, the higher corporate will counter with something good. Good luck. And now everyone can understand why management hates dealing with unions.

If I want a pay raise at work and every year they give me 2%. If I really think I am awesome and deserve more (without getting a promotion and big rank boost which puts me into a new pay band), I might say 5%. If scouring market salaries and I'm totally underpaid, I might even do 10%. But that's kind of it and reaosnable.

I dont go in saying I want +30%, ownership of work, royalties, job security against AI, and out of scope shit. Management would be like WTF you talking about. Come back with a reasonable request.

In the business world, you dont go ape shit with weird demands either. When a sales rep and Walmart wheel and deal on a box of cookies, Walmart doesn't say sell me a box of Oreos for a nickel and the rep says I want to sell to you at $8. A reasonable agreement might be somewhere in that $1.33 to $1.54 range where it's currently at $1.42.

I think you're confusing trade work with whatever basic employee stuff you do. Unions set minimum conditions for all members. It's their job to look at the market and adjust the CBA to new realities. The situation isn't analogous to your generic corporate job.

A regular union guy in a position like yours might be happy taking small raises and staying under the radar. Somebody with a unique skillset or a high producer can earn more. My brother regularly demands big raises and leaves if the company doesn't pay because his trade is in demand. Quit in the AM new job in the PM.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Daredevil, Severance and Hedge Knight have all been impacted.

Strike Disrupts "Daredevil," "Severance," "Knight" - Dark Horizons

With the writer’s strike entering its second week, a bunch of productions are now temporarily pausing or outright shutting down amidst the ongoing industrial action. Marvel and Disney’s high-profile “Daredevil: Born Again” revival series marks the latest New York-based TV series to be impacted...

www.darkhorizons.com

Luckily House of the Dragon seems to be going forward.

 

[DKehoe]

Luckily House of the Dragon seems to be going forward.

I'll wait and see before calling that lucky. It could have an impact on how the season turns out.

 

[DKehoe]

 

[Lasha]

Funny breakdown by Snoop Dogg

James Is ON STRIKE (@ScriptsByJames)

Snoop Dogg blasting the streaming model and supporting the writers’ strike is my FAVORITE thing ever. 🐐

nitter.snopyta.org

 

[StreetsofBeige]

As a sports fan, the more strikes the better. Maybe tv channels will show more sports to fill gaps in the future as contingency plans.

Sports are not only opposite to canned TV shows and movies, but that content is also profitable. Network pay giant sums of money for league contracts and it's still profitable

I think ESPN is/was really profitable or Disney, and way back when CBC had control of NHL contracts, I think it was something absurd like Saturday Night Hockey was 30% of the entire channels ad revenue. I might be wrong, but I remember it was stupidly skewed. Maybe that money also included other sports coverage. Not sure.

 

[Billbofet]

Nobody should have to endure Imagine Dragons. That's just cruel.

 

[JCK75]

95% of writers currently working in the industry should be sent back to working as starbucks baristas.

 

[NickFire]

AI bots are not going to be able to replace human writers… even the woke ones. If you’re cheering that future on, then you’re cheering on a bleak one, based on your distaste of current political agendas. Ones that will eventually die out.

I do not want to see AI replace human writers. But if we're being honest, would AI really be worse than changing descriptive adjectives in an old script?