Horizon Zero Dawn - Preview Thread [Up: All Previews Live]

Chris Metal said:
Yeah, what time was that? Was it 5pm UK? Think I'm at the doctors then so may just miss the live stream... Hope it's a long one though (the game showing, not my appointment).

Went ahead and finally preordered today, was gonna go LE from GAME but the £70 price for the extra two outfits I'm sure you will have a chance to unlock at somepoint and a mini artbook couldn't justify the cost. I had £8 reward points to use I can't on PSN so £36 for the standard ed and preorder bonus seems decent for me, plus I have the LE Art of Horizon hardback on order as well for my love of the concept art, so got that covered.
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Come watch us play #HorizonZeroDawn LIVE this Monday at 8am PT/11am ET/4pm GMT/5pm CET!
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@Huskymania2 We will be playing the same part of the game as the media and we will avoid any story bits :)
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https://twitter.com/Guerrilla/status/827579117730144256
 
Was just replaying some of Shadow Fall and damn that game still looks good. Guerrilla's art and tech teams are both top notch and it seems like Horizon really let them go wild.
 
Thoughts in general.

Combat Design:
  • Game looks like it plays fluidly and smoothly. No signs of major drops or elements that impede gameplay given that constant movement, fine controls are core aspects of the moment-to-moment. It’s no DOOM/Titanfall, but it seems fine.
  • Ranged combat execution doesn’t appear to be realistic or has any elements of physics-works within it like wind, arcs and the like, but works and is the right choice given the enemy type, the no.of ammo required to take down enemies, etc.
  • Combat toolset looks to be diverse from what is shown. Trap-wires look somewhat overpowered, but as a whole the game appears to be quite well designed to induce player to use as much of their main toolsets as possible to deal with the range of enemies.
  • Melee combat looks to be far less dynamic compared to range combat in design. Appears to be a supplementary component to support ranged combat and stealth rather than existing as its own pillar on equal footing in diversity, design and dynamic application.
  • For all of the weapons and variety of tools to mix-up the gameplay, there is a feeling that the toolsets work in the context of a effect-weakness-reaction type of rock-paper-scissors game design rather than a more sandbox-style of free-flow of effect-cause design where the outcome of mixing up the weaponry and tools are far less predictable due to the systems being governed by the physics and chemistry rather than weaknesses/strengths.
Enemy Design:
  • Machine design is excellent. Good mix of variety, behaviour, scale, with different ways expected to deal with different enemies, requiring planning while also maintaining a skill level to deal with stronger enemies with sufficient mastery of toolset.
  • What is impressive so far is that the peak of small-medium sized enemies appear just as well-designed in how to deal with them just as much as the large sized ones. Not sure how it’ll scale, but it’s good that there is no perception among the devs that ‘big = powerful’ and ‘small = weak.’
  • Human enemy design so far appears weak and uninspired. Poor line-of-sight, enemy AI reactiveness, smartness, stages of alert. Passable, but it’s at the level of your generic open-world super dumb AI enemies. It’s more egregious here in the context of the fact that machine design is clearly leaps-and-bounds more well-thought out than human enemy design so far, as well as the fact that it’s a clear step-down from enemy reaction in Killzone games.
  • Concern that there’s a possibility that 4-5 of enemies are reskins of existing designs. While there are already a good variety of enemies, it would be disappointing if 20-25% of them are just slightly different versions of an existing model, even with different behaviour and ways of approaching them.
Activity Design:
  • Variety appears to be there. The fact that side is separated from other quest types like errands, trials, etc mean that there is distinction between activities and that low-quality quest is hopefully separated from high-quality quest.
  • As expected, unfortunately, it seems that a lot of the activity design that goes into Horizon are the usual elements we’d come to expect from most open-world games. Fetch-quest, tower climbing, etc. There are unique modifiers that Horizon has put it to give it their own flavour, but it’s not a revelation in game design. This is not really a minus point, but it is what it is.
World Design:
  • This is neither a +/- thing, but an observational thought based on what is shown. If we put open world game design at a scale where there’s MGSV/Hitman/Thief is on the opposite end of the spectrum, Far Cry 2 slightly further down, and the other side of the spectrum is your Assassin's Creed, TW3, DAI & GTAs… Horizon leans closer to the AssCreed/GTA side of game design from the looks of it. Games with a more “rigid” template to the completion and progression of the game. The equivalent in open-world game design to the theme park game design as opposed to sandbox game design.
  • Personally,I lean more in favour of the Thief side of the spectrum than the GTA side of the spectrum. It doesn’t work for every game, and honestly having that kind of design doesn’t automatically make a game better, since it’s just as easy to flop and make a mistake on those kind of designs, as with Far Cry 2. But it’s also true that fundamentally speaking, the theme park game design is seen as the more safe and generic approach. It’s a relatively stable formula, whereas the other side is more a Wild West in terms of how it can be designed, and it leads to more diversity, even if not always for the better.
Misc:
  • Game looks great. I’m not particular on graphics, but it never hurts to look visually stunning.
  • There are a lot of little touches I’m noticing. Things like audio logs hearable while moving around, the quest-creator for crafting items. There’s nothing that stands out as archaic or flawed so far in terms of design 101, and it shows that GG has taken to heart a lot of small details in minor criticisms and avoid to have them in Horizon.
  • GG is the developer. I myself don’t assume the game will be bad, but it’s true their last game was mediocre. Even if it was different directors, leads and team altogether, that is a factor that will contribute to some worry.
  • Animation is poor for side-questy stuff and conversations. It’s not even about that infamous scene, but stuff like characters talking and looking you in the eye has the ‘dead-eyes’ look to them. Feels a bit… weird.
  • I like everything I’m seeing right now, but a lot of it is a reaffirmation of what I felt it would’ve been from all the details and footage shown of the game. A competent open-world RPG from a talented first-time devoper that’s hitting 7s on almost every aspect of the game design, but with combat design and the aesthetic elements are hitting 8s or 9s, thus allowing it to stand out.
 
RoboPlato said:
Was just replaying some of Shadow Fall and damn that game still looks good. Guerrilla's art and tech teams are both top notch and it seems like Horizon really let them go wild.
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Right?! You can tell that game was meant for 60 fps. Looks and plays so much better.
 
WaffleTaco said:
Considering it is from Guerrilla of all developers, I would remain skeptical.
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It's like a horrible carnival ride, that just when you think it's over, it starts back up again.
 
SpinningBirdKick said:
  • Bow combat
  • Weapon skill trees
  • Environment collectibles (plants)
  • Beasts that can be tamed and ridden
  • Towers the reveal more of the game world map
  • Stealth
  • 'Focus' mode revealing target locations in the view
  • Weather
  • In game help/tutorials and lore accessible through game menus
  • In game cut scenes
  • Mission objectives shown in game on the HUD
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Ok this is hilarious. Next thing you know you will also add that the game also features polygobs like Shadow of Mordor does...

Lmao *in game cutscenes, * mission objectives shown on HUD, * weather, * stealth... etc i mean come on...
 
Eggbok said:
You know, Aloy, we really are all the games.
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This will never get old , does it?

Now this is something new

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Link to video please

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ok its too much!!

Dreez said:
I wonder if it's thanks to the KojiPro team, they said one of their contributions to the engine was in the lighting department.
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I don't think so because , they are just started with an office , so i don't think they have much to add, maybe i am wrong .
But if you look at K:SF its already have some of the best implementation of volumetric effects, So i think this is Guerrilla thing only, for now.
 
Nightengale said:
Thoughts in general.
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Terrific post Night. Your thoughts come across as very honest and insightful.

I think the only portion I didn't fully understand was this bit:

Nightengale said:
If we put open world game design at a scale where there’s MGSV/Hitman/Thief is on the opposite end of the spectrum, Far Cry 2 slightly further down, and the other side of the spectrum is your Assassin's Creed, TW3, DAI & GTAs… Horizon leans closer to the AssCreed/GTA side of game design from the looks of it.
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I haven't played Hitman or Thief, but are you citing MGSV because of the sandbox nature of the actual gameplay, or because you can complete missions in a non-specific order?

Where would you say something like Fallout lies in that spectrum?
 
The way I interpret the scale is free-form systems-driven gameplay on the one side (MGSV, Hitman) and map full of collectibles and overall gameplay driven by going through lists of (not terribly interesting) objctives on the other.
 
I'd say an open world scale would have Minecraft on one end, and Mafia 2 on the other. Complete sandbox versus completely story-driven open world stripped of any extraneous elements
 
muetimueti said:
The way I interpret the scale is free-form systems-driven gameplay on the one side (MGSV, Hitman) and map full of collectibles and overall gameplay driven by going through lists of (not terribly interesting) objctives on the other.
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This. Systems-driven, where the game is build around basically layers of systems and the core appeal is how the systems interact. Some systems focus on different thing more than others. That being said, a systems-driven game can still all the elements of a checklist game, and vice-versa.

For example, when I look at say... an infiltration mission. A game that does it as the furthest end of the theme park spectrum would be GTA or Watch Dogs where at its worst, doing it "out of the script" demands you restart it, or even if there's no lame fail-state, the game lays out "perfectly positioned" hackathons or interactive objects for a curated picture-perfect way of dealing with the situation.

Whereas something like Hitman, even though it possesses all the elements of WD's "curated" elements of a kill, layer that with a lot of dense, more free-form tools in the form of tools, clothing, ways AI react to stuff, scale of the missions to allow an experience where even if it also has all the elements of a themepark, isn't built like one.

More_Badass said:
I'd say an open world scale would have Minecraft on one end, and Mafia 2 on the other. Complete sandbox versus completely story-driven open world stripped of any extraneous elements
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This is a good comparison as well.
 
I really want to know if you can use the ropecaster to tie two or more machines to one another (like in Just Cause) instead of just pinning a single one to the ground. Would be really cool.
 
LightOfTruth said:
Terrific post Night. Your thoughts come across as very honest and insightful.

I think the only portion I didn't fully understand was this bit:



I haven't played Hitman or Thief, but are you citing MGSV because of the sandbox nature of the actual gameplay, or because you can complete missions in a non-specific order?

Where would you say something like Fallout lies in that spectrum?
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I think Nightengale means that games like MGSV and Hitman have "open worlds" designed as a sandbox to give players various ways to complete a mission. The game essentially doesn't limit the player down a set path and the player can use equipments at their disposal to accomplish the objectives. Take Mission 16 in MGSV, for instance. You are given a large portion of the map to navigate in and your objective is to find the caravan, which is at the airport. The game encourages you to infiltrate a nearby outpost to gather intel to locate the caravan. However, if you're familiar with the layout, you can rush straight to the airport, defeat the Skulls and fulton the truck. You can even just use D Walker to fulton it from outside the base. If you're too slow, tanks arrive and escort the truck, in which you have to stop the caravan on any point of their route. Basically, the open world is designed to be fully open ended, giving the player freedom to finish the mission as they wish with collectibles being non existent, but side quests are included.

On the other hand, the other type of "open world" is one where you have an entire living, breathing world to explore and participate in. The main difference is that in free roam, you are encouraged to look around the world for collectibles and side quests. You can also simply indulge in this rich world, interact with NPC's and such. However, this type of games typically offer little freedom in mission structure, usually forcing players down a set path. GTA games and The Witcher 3 being good examples.

In my opinion, Ubisoft games should be in their own category. The worlds created are not fun nor interesting to explore at all. Their game design philosophy is to fill the map with repetitive side quests and bland collectibles. Hopefully, Horizon has open world design more akin to GTA and The Witcher.

Damn it, I see Nightengale replied. Oh, well, I hope I got it right anyway. :P
 
Nightengale said:
This. Systems-driven, where the game is build around basically layers of systems and the core appeal is how the systems interact. Some systems focus on different thing more than others. That being said, a systems-driven game can still all the elements of a checklist game, and vice-versa.

For example, when I look at say... an infiltration mission. A game that does it as the furthest end of the theme park spectrum would be GTA or Watch Dogs where at its worst, doing it "out of the script" demands you restart it, or even if there's no lame fail-state, the game lays out "perfectly positioned" hackathons or interactive objects for a curated picture-perfect way of dealing with the situation.

Whereas something like Hitman, even though it possesses all the elements of WD's "curated" elements of a kill, layer that with a lot of dense, more free-form tools in the form of tools, clothing, ways AI react to stuff, scale of the missions to allow an experience where even if it also has all the elements of a themepark, isn't built like one.
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I haven't played the new Hitman , and the last one i played is too long back, But i don't think in hitman you can go guns blazing and complete the objective from the get go. For ex , you start the mission with infiltrating a building and you have to use some sort of disguise, which again you can do in many ways. I mean its not that much "out of the script too" , Again i agree that the game opens up at this point and let you do the mission or complete objective as you want.

The crysis series is the best example where open world design excels well and above the Sandbox design of later games in the series.
 
vivekTO said:
I haven't played the new Hitman , and the last one i played is too long back, But i don't think in hitman you can go guns blazing and complete the objective from get go. For ex , to you start with infiltrating a building and you have to use some sort of disguise, which again you can do in many ways. I mean its not that much "out of the script too" , Again i agree that the game opens up at this point and let you do the mission or complete objective as you want.

The crysis series is the best example where open world design excels well and above the Sandbox design of later games in the series.
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Yeah, Crysis is a great example that flew over my head.

And I agree with the points you raised on Hitman. It is in many ways, a game that also has the hallmarks of "pls do this cool scripted thing", but I highlighted it as an example I liked because it layers in a focus on systems while also giving the scripted beats for those who like that element of it.
 
I really, really hope, that the game will deliver. Actually, I am quite sure, that it will. Almost everything, that has been shown so far, screams quality. The world-building is also quite beautiful and for me, the graphics are at a "The Order 1886" - level, but it is an open world. GG are really working some black magic right there. I wonder, whom they had to sacrifice for that? Maybe therefore they had do hire new employees? I love Eloy and the music btw.

I am so excited, I just can't hide it...Eloy, you know it's true....uuh..uuh..uuhh...I...
 
Crowne said:
I really, really hope, that the game will deliver. Actually, I am quite sure, that it will. Almost everything, that has been shown so far, screams quality. The world-building is also quite beautiful and for me, the graphics are at a "The Order 1886" - level, but it is an open world. GG are really working some black magic right there. I wonder, whom they had to sacrifice for that? Maybe therefore they had do hire new employees? I love Eloy and the music btw.

I am so excited, I just can't hide it...Eloy, you know it's true....uuh..uuh..uuhh...I...
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Who is Eloy?? Is there second protagonist?? or are you that much excited :P
 
I never know the names of my girls :D Aloy, of course...damn...maybe Eloy is her evil sis or something, mark my words.(actually I'm all in for the good sis/bad sis - threesome)
 
Crowne said:
the graphics are at a "The Order 1886" - level, but it is an open world.
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The visuals in The Order had an entirely different focus. They went for a realism that is no where to be found in Horizon, which is colorful, almost cartoony looking.

I would bet anything that materials in Horizon won't look nearly as good and authentic as they did in The Order.
 
silva1991 said:
This fanmade box art reminds me of this



But of course Horizon is the only one of the two gets attacked for taking inspiration from other games
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To be fair the latter seems to have a far more versatile mix, if we're going by what the box art is trying to say.
 
1.21Gigawatts said:
The visuals in The Order had an entirely different focus. They went for a realism that is no where to be found in Horizon, which is colorful, almost cartoony looking.

I would bet anything that materials in Horizon won't look nearly as good and authentic as they did in The Order.
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Ok, let me phrase it differently. The graphics WOW me like The Order did back then. You are absolutely right regarding the artstyle/focus - differences and the more cartoonish look. But in my humble opinion everything comes together more organically in Horizon. I am a big The Order fan btw, even if the game wasn't what I hoped for gameplaywise.

PS: The Band is not the threesome I was thinking of....
 
oh, how could I forget the golden phrase about Guerrilla when it comes to Horizon threads on my GAF boxart. Fixing that

EDIT: Actually now I fear that this joke boxart I made will be used for legit hate purposes, so I did a small edit again lol

C3-wPhyWMAAaIn2.jpg
 
1.21Gigawatts said:
The visuals in The Order had an entirely different focus. They went for a realism that is no where to be found in Horizon, which is colorful, almost cartoony looking.

I would bet anything that materials in Horizon won't look nearly as good and authentic as they did in The Order.
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The Order was like walking around a museum of the old kind - full of beautiful things that you can't touch and don't move. There was no life anywhere in it's locales IMO.

Horizon looks like it's managed to capture both a sense of place, and to portray a living place, buzzing with activity. It's the one thing Ubi get right with the Creed games IMO, Rockstar absolutely nail every time and was also there in The Witcher.
 
FelipeMGM said:
oh, how could I forget the golden phrase about Guerrilla when it comes to Horizon threads on my GAF boxart. Fixing that

EDIT: Actually now I fear that this joke boxart I made will be used for legit hate purposes, so I did a small edit again lol

C3-wPhyWMAAaIn2.jpg
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This boxart is very misleading in terms of the amount of trees in the game
 
kyser73 said:
The Order was like walking around a museum of the old kind - full of beautiful things that you can't touch and don't move. There was no life anywhere in it's locales IMO.

Horizon looks like it's managed to capture both a sense of place, and to portray a living place, buzzing with activity. It's the one thing Ubi get right with the Creed games IMO, Rockstar absolutely nail every time and was also there in The Witcher.
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imo gameplay videos we have are not long enougth to get a real idea of that.
probably will have to judge that march 3 myself.
 
silva1991 said:
It looks so goofy I love it :D
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Yep it does :p
I do think their goofy animations are intentional.

RoboPlato said:
Very pleasantly surprised to at the amount of animations and reactions that the machines seem to have. I've watched a good deal of footage and they seem to do different stuff almost every time based on the situation.
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That's right. The Thunder Jaw was the most difficult to design and animate - it took 18 months to nail every part of its design from begining to end.

It took two animators three months working full time to get basic animations in place but by the time certain things were devised and changed it took around six months to complete a robot from start to finish.

Dreez said:
I wonder if it's thanks to the KojiPro team, they said one of their contributions to the engine was in the lighting department.
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Killzone 2 to Shadowfall are top notch in the lighting deparment.

Yabberwocky said:
Niiiiiiiiice.
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Indeed.

vivekTO said:
Link to video please
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Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0mt89-YEtA

Cloukyo said:
To be fair the latter seems to have a far more versatile mix, if we're going by what the box art is trying to say.
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And now it's a competition between which game is more versatile.

giphy.gif
 
I'm hoping the devs gameplay stream, they

1. they should show how versatile the A.I. is, one thing I didn't like about the Preview event was no versatility in how the user approached the scenario. They were all pretty much the same e.g. guns blazing with a barrage of ammo dumping to subdue the target. I would like the dev stream to introduce some tactical fighting, all the while seducing the A.I. to use it's other weapons as an assault on you. I want to see the A.I. be tactical as well.
 
silva1991 said:
This fanmade box art reminds me of this



But of course Horizon is the only one of the two gets attacked for taking inspiration from other games
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Exactly, and I still remember how boring skyward sword was and people still think slapping a n old franchise name on a box is guaranteed 10/10. If I am more skeptical of one of these game it would be zelda because if botw suck the franchise is dead to me. The last 2 console zelda game bore the crap out of me.
 
SpinningBirdKick said:
I take it all back...

Horizon is clearly the most innovative piece of software that the world is ever likely to see.

I have immediately placed 100 preorders and am counting down the seconds until release.

I can't wait!

It's going to be amazing!

Opinions, how do they work?
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A game does not have to be innovative to be good. If that is a criteria of your then you probably don't get excited for many games. Maybe you can get a vr sex game with a contraption that straps to your Johnson. That's some innovative tech. Goty?
 
I'm looking forward to following the stream today even though I probably have watched too many videos of that map area as of now.
 
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