RedNumberFive
Banned
I'm still waiting for the Major Nelson Apology Mall Tour to hit my town.
How can Microsoft win back your heart for XB1?
- Thread starter Raydeen
- Start date
andromeduck
Member
no, you have it backwards
posts in this thread are indicative of how badly Microsoft fucked up this gen and the community feels about their attempts at reconciliation
to get a sense of why this shift is happening listen to this pod-cast
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/08/02/187373801/episode-386-the-cost-of-free-doughnuts
Sword Of Doom
Member
I owned a ps3 only and was gonna use the generation change to assess both ps4 and Xbox one and make my decision to switch because I didn't wanna automatically stick with Sony after the issues the ps3 had. So your assumption is incorrect. The reason I never bought an Xbox was because I am simply not a fan of MS products. I feel like their success has always been a result of their aggressive business practices more than the quality of their products. However, I thought the 360 was different. It was a genuinely good product worth buying. To me MS ruined the one truly great product they had. And that is why I am not buying one.
AstroNut325
Member
That's BS and you know it! Why does it even matter to begin with? It's MS's job to convince us gamers that their path, their ideas, their console is what is ideal for us... and they blew it beyond recognition. And they continue to do so with sheer hubris/arrogance time and time again that further reinforces the negativity. Don't put the blame on the gamers. It's MS's screw up from start to finish.
Claiming certain people weren't EVER going to get an Xbone is the same line of thinking as Romney's 47%.
GayForMaster
Banned
Price drop. I don't want the Kinect.
I highly doubt that MS will release an update which forces you to stay online after downloading it. The backlash would probably be even bigger than the last one.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they added an optional "DRM" system where you can choose certain games which forces you to stay online when playing them adds all the benefits they had with the old system. Kinda like they had originally planned for all games except you optional.
I agree with all of that, with the caveat that the original 24-hour-check-in rule seemed a bit draconian. I had no personal problem with it, but I have a friend with iffy wireless internet that goes down for days at a time in the winter. I would have liked to see them relax that deadline a bit, where possible. (For instance, let you go 72 hours if you still have the disc in hand.)
So yeah. Dear Microsoft:
- Please don't remove the Kinect. It's the center of your strategy for better or worse. Trash that, and you may as well start over with a new console design. (Which I'd be fine with, except I don't want to wait that long.)
- Please allow people to opt back into the original DRM scheme. No discs required, game sharing, etc.
- Lower the damn price. Stop being short-term greedy. I spent well over a $1000 on 360 games. Why are you making it so hard for me to justify doing that again?
elementalsin
Member
So you basically confirmed what I said? All it takes is more power (and as cheap as possible).
I didn't say MS reinvented any wheel. I said they're trying new things/improving things that didn't work as well as intended, etc etc... Reread my post if you wish. All you did was confirm what I said and then go on to continue championing Sony for being the more powerful console..... And not doing anything else (maintaining the status quo).
Totally agree with all of this..... Except I don't mind the price point THAT much. I would of course like it lower, but I can live with it as is. A free game or XBL time would be a nice touch though.
The Maverick
Member
Amen, my brother.
Are you implying that GAF is SonyLand?
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Halo revitalizing the console arena shooter is probably the only thing that would make me get an Xbox One. But after Halo 4, the chances of that happening seem slim to none.
The console arena FPS is sorely overdue for a renaissance.
The console arena FPS is sorely overdue for a renaissance.
That's an undeniable fact these days, but it's not without reason. Sony and MS are both killing it, but in diametrically different ways.
Had a 360 and thought it was pretty great early on. They lost me through that gen and the reveal for Xbox one didn't help.
travisbickle
Member
Was always intending to go for a PS4 next gen, but I must say if the PS4 ended up like the One I would have dropped out of gaming.
I can see why people are pissed off, half the stuff in the Xbox One isn't to do with gaming. I've been fooled before into buying a PC with DVR functionality and I ended up using it half a dozen times then regretting it. Got a laptop that came with a unit to stream to TV, again hardly used it...and it seems like you're getting a deal, the TV streamer appeared to be free, but when you look at the specs, like the Xbox One the PCs I bought had scrimped on the components and you've paid more for a slower system!!
I can see why people are pissed off, half the stuff in the Xbox One isn't to do with gaming. I've been fooled before into buying a PC with DVR functionality and I ended up using it half a dozen times then regretting it. Got a laptop that came with a unit to stream to TV, again hardly used it...and it seems like you're getting a deal, the TV streamer appeared to be free, but when you look at the specs, like the Xbox One the PCs I bought had scrimped on the components and you've paid more for a slower system!!
Effigenius
Member
If they get enough great exclusives I will come back. Not holding my breath though seeng how their exclusives have looked the last 3 years.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Wow. That's right on the money
Effigenius
Member
That's an odd conclusion to draw. Might these people not be 360 owners who never bought a Kinect? If they didn't choose to buy one when it was optional why would choosing not to buy it when it's mandatory be an indicator that they were never really interested?
Callibretto
Member
oculus rift included for free would be nice...
AdmiralPain
Banned
It already has won my heart by showing great games. Microsoft's lineup is much better than the PS4's IMO, so it'll get a purchase out of me.
travisbickle
Member
If you look at the first Xbox and the 360, you would have to say the people who want MS to ditch the Kinect are the fans of the console's legacy, and the ones happy with TV and apps are imposters!!
i feel you but i might grab one in a few years when the price is 350 or less
i realize i could be waiting a long time
Neutralfanboy
Banned
Have great exclusives. I'm sure Titanfall and Forza will be great but I need to see more from Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, Black Tusk game, and of course Halo 5. Sony could have waited and launched The Last of Us on PS4 which would have been a system seller but we'll see what they have up their sleeve.
Yes, all of the awesome games they've shown for kinect on both 360 and XB1 certainly make it a standout feature worth 100 bucks more than its direct competition.
I don't get people saying that gamers like myself weren't interested. OF COURSE I was interested. I own a 360. I play games. I look for consoles and handhelds on which to play games. I plan on buying every console.
Unfortunately for MS, I love physical media. And with comments like "gamers weren't ready for the future yet," or whatever Harrison said, it makes it unlikely that MS does GET it and will look to reintroduce their anti-consumer policies as soon as they can.
The thing that irritates me the most about the leadup to the xbox one release and subsequent 180's is Microsoft's insistence that the policies they cooked up was the only possible path to a digital future and people are just scared of "change".
They still don't see that it was dystopian and anti-consumer.
They still don't see that it was dystopian and anti-consumer.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Well ... of course. Isn't that the point?
lifeexpectancy
Member
You want to force your desires on the entire population of gamers. There are still TONS of gamers that do not have internet speeds that make a fully digital generation feasible unless you want to completely ignore that segment of the population (which includes millions of console owners).
And what is the big deal with putting the disc in the tray when you want to play a game, seriously? I mean is it so hard to get up, walk a few feet across the room, hit the eject button, and switch game discs? Especially if it allows you to keep the resale potential of physical media you've purchased?
It's absolutely ridiculous to think that the previous policies were ANYTHING other than a way to further line the pockets of MS execs and their publisher friends. Taking away people's ability to buy/sell/trade used games was just attempt to do that, without realizing that used game sales DO NOT adversely affect new game sales in any meaningful way.
The people that wait until they can pick up a game for $20 used are people that never would've bought the game at the $40-60 price point anyway, regardless of if you completely remove used games from the equation. However, if someone picks up a game for $20 used and falls in love with the franchise, they might just buy the next $60 installment, a sale that never would've happened without the used market. MS and publishers still fail to recognize this relatively simple fact.
We would never have seen quality, recent releases show up for $20-30 on XBL gold. We have YEARS of experience with games on demand to prove that this is true. They never would've dropped the prices far enough or fast enough to make the digital distro system make anywhere near as much sense as Steam does, and that's completely ignoring the above point that digital distro is just not feasible from an infrastructure perspective for tens of millions of potential customers.
Just because YOU want to install a disc and forget about it does not mean that the majority of people want that anti-consumer future you're so lustful for. If you really hate changing discs so much, YOU can still have that future. Just buy your games via the marketplace for $60 on day one and download them. Then you'll never have to worry about discs, and never be able to sell your games, and you can be perfectly happy with that while the rest of us keep a system we prefer.
Meanwhile for the rest of us (on topic) MS can:
1. Get rid of mandatory Kinect (or make something worth freaking playing on it)
2. Drop the price to be more competitive (consumers are very price conscious and a 25% premium over PS4 is huge)
3. Actually support the platform with quality first party games with true console exclusivity (not this timed exclusive moneyhat BS)
4. as has been said ad nauseum, STOP paywalling all the apps, esp Netflix/Hulu/Internet Explorer
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
After seeing all of the games they announced at E3, I said that if they got rid of the DRM, I would purchase one in a heartbeat.
Now I'm waiting on November 22nd.
Now I'm waiting on November 22nd.
These are what I'd like MS to do:
-Bring a stable, more permanent (?) plan for "Games with Gold" than they are currently implementing. Even diehard fanboys have to realize PS+ does have a better deal, even when considering you "only rent them."
-Box a game or games (think Wii Sports but better) in with the consoles...GLOBALLY (not just in countries they want more numbers for.)People believe you left games behind? Show them you mean all in one with Games at the forefront by giving them a game. We know Spark is free, KI is "free," it will need to be a normally non-free title if only to quell the cries you'll hear on the internet.
-Integrate Windows Music into the Gold Tier so that I can still sync my music that I already own and stream... since I can do that already on PC and Phone content.
-Even though it doesn't affect me, I think they should make Netflix and other services available on Silver Tier.
-Smart Glass? How bout you get that to work appropriately on my damned Nexus 7. I'd really love to try out your awesome features but instead I get a deceptively unusable service unless I pay more for either an iPad, Surface, or some service I do not want to use (Xbox Video).
Things I would be upset and turn my back on MS if they did:
-Remove Kinect from the system within the first several years (I do believe it is the differentiating mark of the two consoles even if PS4 now attempts to emulate it; Sony simply doesn't have the years of experience with this type of device. Move is a different entity.) If we agree the original Kinect was a failure, then I'd like to see what happens when developers (perhaps making exclusives) KNOW everyone has a Kinect. There are some brilliant designers out there who held back because of the integration factor. Let them decide if it's worth it. I'm sure there weren't hordes of people pissed the Famicom had a microphone built in even if they didn't use it and I'm sure it added to the price.
-I don't sell games back but anything that will undermine my already rights in the digital age. While law is fairly up to date in other aspects of society, digitally it is horrendously blind and both the law and society abuses it. We need to come to terms with this. Removing my abilities to sell my games (legal) and believing games are somehow a social right and we can freely copy them (social) are both concepts that need to be addressed. (I'm a fan of DRM-Free content but believe people aren't capable of social honesty AS A WHOLE.)
-Have another expensive run of console failures. One or two will occur, but gone are the days that I could own a console and keep the damned thing for a decade and it works fine minus one or two 5 cent fixings. My SNES is still operational and while it has no moving parts, some things are just inexcusable when I get a failure within the first 2 years.
Things I'd love:
Magical backwards compatibility.
Voodoo Vince sequel.
And you'll have my undying love when:
You announce Phantom Dust 2: Xbox One Exclusive. -Adam
-Bring a stable, more permanent (?) plan for "Games with Gold" than they are currently implementing. Even diehard fanboys have to realize PS+ does have a better deal, even when considering you "only rent them."
-Box a game or games (think Wii Sports but better) in with the consoles...GLOBALLY (not just in countries they want more numbers for.)People believe you left games behind? Show them you mean all in one with Games at the forefront by giving them a game. We know Spark is free, KI is "free," it will need to be a normally non-free title if only to quell the cries you'll hear on the internet.
-Integrate Windows Music into the Gold Tier so that I can still sync my music that I already own and stream... since I can do that already on PC and Phone content.
-Even though it doesn't affect me, I think they should make Netflix and other services available on Silver Tier.
-Smart Glass? How bout you get that to work appropriately on my damned Nexus 7. I'd really love to try out your awesome features but instead I get a deceptively unusable service unless I pay more for either an iPad, Surface, or some service I do not want to use (Xbox Video).
Things I would be upset and turn my back on MS if they did:
-Remove Kinect from the system within the first several years (I do believe it is the differentiating mark of the two consoles even if PS4 now attempts to emulate it; Sony simply doesn't have the years of experience with this type of device. Move is a different entity.) If we agree the original Kinect was a failure, then I'd like to see what happens when developers (perhaps making exclusives) KNOW everyone has a Kinect. There are some brilliant designers out there who held back because of the integration factor. Let them decide if it's worth it. I'm sure there weren't hordes of people pissed the Famicom had a microphone built in even if they didn't use it and I'm sure it added to the price.
-I don't sell games back but anything that will undermine my already rights in the digital age. While law is fairly up to date in other aspects of society, digitally it is horrendously blind and both the law and society abuses it. We need to come to terms with this. Removing my abilities to sell my games (legal) and believing games are somehow a social right and we can freely copy them (social) are both concepts that need to be addressed. (I'm a fan of DRM-Free content but believe people aren't capable of social honesty AS A WHOLE.)
-Have another expensive run of console failures. One or two will occur, but gone are the days that I could own a console and keep the damned thing for a decade and it works fine minus one or two 5 cent fixings. My SNES is still operational and while it has no moving parts, some things are just inexcusable when I get a failure within the first 2 years.
Things I'd love:
Magical backwards compatibility.
Voodoo Vince sequel.
And you'll have my undying love when:
You announce Phantom Dust 2: Xbox One Exclusive. -Adam
They lost me halfway through this gen when they just stooped making exclusives other than halo, forza, and gears. And i was hearing about stuff like Uncharted, God of War and Infamous I will probably wait on the XB1 this gen and see if they end up going down that road again or not. Hopefully they wont repeat this gen.
Pseudo judo
Member
There's a reason why any MS hate bait threads extend into double digit pages. Hating on the console is the cool thing to do, to deny that is pointless, the evidence is apparent all over the internet and anywhere else for that matter.
Are there definitive reasons to have issues with the console and the company that created it? Of course, but the tone many of the detractors isn't one of reasoned distaste but deliberate, mocking scorn that comes from a place of personal amusement. It has made decent discussion painful and I'd have to say near impossible which i would expect from the line up at EB but I would hope I would find better here.
Enordash
Member
I think my main issue here is the amount of weight people are putting on the cost of the two systems. Maybe I'm not really the one to ask here because I can afford to spend that money without it killing me. I'm picking up both consoles at launch. As an essentially lifelong gamer, I would just rather this decision be based on gaming/entertainment experiences instead.
People love to make fun of all the cloud nonsense, but the simple fact that it could be a game changer for shooters and fighting games has me very interested. I understand that LIVE is definitely bringing in a ton of extra cash, but if they are really adding the amount of servers across the world as they claim, maybe they are using LIVE to recoup other costs instead. Do we even know what the manufacturing cost is of either console? I would like to know the per SKU gain/loss of each so that we could better discuss the issue.
Edit: Reports seem to be rolling in about how awful Kinect 2 is, so my "experiences" argument may be moot, lol.
EsotericManiac
Banned
after going through six 360s, I'm done
digoutyoursoul
Member
Kintectless SKU
Liberty4all
Banned
When I see posts from people saying we (GAF) hate on Microsoft I always bring up the fact that between 2006 - 2008 GAF had an undeniable love affair with the Xbox 360 while the PS3 got hated on for a good 2 years here ... yet Sony turned things around and did what they had to do to redeem themselves. It's possible Microsoft may do so too ... but it will take YEARS not days to repair the damage they have done to their brand.
GAF swings to whatever console is currently the best in terms of games and features. And right now that's Sony with the current PS3 and upcoming PS4.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Pretty much this.
I see too many people saying NeoGAF is Sonyland. And I ask them why? And they say its because we are just a bunch of Sony fanboys and want to see MS tank.
The reality is that if Sony had fucked up with DRM, tried launching a 500 dollar console, tried forcing a 100 dollar peripheral, and had overly arrogant PR, then the climate on this board would be completely different.
digoutyoursoul
Member
What I don't like, especially of late, is the pouncing on a person simply for their opinion. I see " Uhhh no lol my tastes and opinions are factual yours are not" style posts and it gets irritating to read and perhaps some generalise out of that sort of frustration. There is no way I would have someone dictate to me what I can't or should like.
RedNumberFive
Banned
I've gone through at least as many. I'm surprised how short everyone's memory is.
thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
They're not perfect. And to me, PS4 seems like a better platform.. But I'm all in for the games. Specifically Killer Instinct and Crimson Dragon at launch.