No you're not. "What have you done" is always a faux argument. Believing climate change is real doesn't mean we have to live like a hermit. You've already done more than your fair share and the biggest changes cannot be done by individuals, they are industrial regulations and policies that can only be enforced by the world governments.
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How climate change is rapidly taking the planet apart and towards human extinction
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No you're not. "What have you done" is always a faux argument. Believing climate change is real doesn't mean we have to live like a hermit. You've already done more than your fair share and the biggest changes cannot be done by individuals, they are industrial regulations and policies that can only be enforced by the world governments.
No but I think some healthy skepticism for something as extreme as that is okay.
It is in the OP and why some people think the article is exaggerating.
Oppo
Member
it's hard to call it an exaggeration when really it's a big pile of citations and papers/studies.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I haven't ignored it, just missed it.I made a thread about exactly that recently, which was promptly ignored
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1240989
I cannot come up with any reasonable arguments against anything you say in the OP of that thread. I can't imagine that making you feel any better, though.
I fully disagree with that. Our governments share out societies' values. They're are our literal projection, whether on a conscious or not-so conscious level.
Nothing will ever change until we change on an individual level.
What do we do? We're at the stage where we need the second coming of Jesus or a friendly alien invasion to make us see the error of our ways and give us even a sliver of hope that we can largely fix this before it goes truly tits up.
As I understand it we're more or less at the stage where the runaway effects are now impossible to reverse. A lot of very bad things will be happening relatively soon and it will ramp up well beyond any sort of management we could hope to enact. There will be droughts, there will be floods, some countries and Islands and major cities will be under water, there will be mass hunger, there will be mass emigration the likes we've never seen, escalating world tensions beyond breaking point. Wars over resources, over land, economy collapsing as it frankly deserves to (how much of our current stability is due to enormous debt in our financial systems?).
Yeah we're fucked alright. If aliens are going to appear with technology to help us then now's the time. Given how crazy things have gotten it wouldn't surprise me if aliens did actually show up haha.
As I understand it we're more or less at the stage where the runaway effects are now impossible to reverse. A lot of very bad things will be happening relatively soon and it will ramp up well beyond any sort of management we could hope to enact. There will be droughts, there will be floods, some countries and Islands and major cities will be under water, there will be mass hunger, there will be mass emigration the likes we've never seen, escalating world tensions beyond breaking point. Wars over resources, over land, economy collapsing as it frankly deserves to (how much of our current stability is due to enormous debt in our financial systems?).
Yeah we're fucked alright. If aliens are going to appear with technology to help us then now's the time. Given how crazy things have gotten it wouldn't surprise me if aliens did actually show up haha.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It doesn't say anything about the human race being extinct by 2035.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Didn't intend to blame you or anyone else in particular, just to say these are issues many more people should be worrying about, and given the lack of replies that seemed not to be the case (at least on GAF).
What I was hoping for in that thread was a discussion about hypothetical changes to the current democratic system in order to make it more resilient against ignorance. Classically, the main three branches have been legislative, executive and judicial and I was interested in hearing ideas about how we could introduce a fourth branch (educational).
ding ding ding
it's this shit that I do not fucking understand about our species. Of all the things we could overreact for, it should be the health of the god damn planet and protection of all species on it. even if theres only a 1% chance of this event happening, we should be doing absolutely everything we can to help reduce that. Instead, we seem to be going full steam don't give a fuck mode. It's baffling. What's the worst that can happen if we put safety measures in place? Come on.
If I was under 20 I would probably be fucking furious. Imagine we had an actual "Won't someone think of the children" bill that really, you know, targeted helping them instead of using them as a way to emotionally manipulate others?
Why would they save us, when they've seen the mess we've already gotten ourselves into with our current level of technology? How will fusion reactors and FTL drives make us less wasteful, petty, greedy, or violent? Will being able to have backup planets to move to somehow make us treat them with any more respect?
"Time and space will do nothing to separate Man from it's nature"
freethoughtbubble
Member
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
These. It's infuriating. Every little bit helps, but it helps so little globally that you just start feeling powerless.
Yeah? That's a shame. Get back to me when the politicians care more about what their doing to the planet than what their political donors in the oil and gas, and fracking(natural gas) industry are putting in their pockets.
Who has the most oil and gas contract lobbyists illuminates a lot.
I think its obvious that human kind created its own demise through greed a long time ago, yet you'll still get stupid arguments in the face of common sense.
Who has the most oil and gas contract lobbyists illuminates a lot.
I think its obvious that human kind created its own demise through greed a long time ago, yet you'll still get stupid arguments in the face of common sense.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because we are basically powerless. The citizens of different major countries would have to cry out to their governments to make their actual lives today harder in the short term, to help out the future citizens of this planet 2 or 3 (40 to 60 years) generations from now.
Not going to happen.
Frankenstrat
Member
It's not the end of the world, but we can see it from here.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I can assure you I'm not optimistic. I'm just trying to prepare my kids for what's in store for them and their kids.
People change at the face of imminent danger. Which I'm afraid our children will have the, well, opportunity, to meet. Otherwise it takes enormous intellectual and will effort, which most people are incapable of under everyday circumstances.
@efyu_lemonardo, education is not the 4th pillar - it has, and will always remain, the 1st. None of the other three pillars works without education.
One of the tragic ironies of our time is that the developed countries, you know - those with the actual education, fully consciously substituted education for consumption - why do I need education when I can live an ignorantly-blissful life, guaranteed to me by the society? Means for survival? I can borrow myself silly. Education, from a prerequisite for survival, has become some luxury, a stupid ambition, at best.
Funny thing is, education never stopped being a prerequisite for survival. And reality has its funny ways of getting back to us.
Theonik
Member
Irreversibly. Governments can very rarely see past the next election so many of them will not take it seriously when short term economic impacts of doing so might hurt them in the next election, while also forfeiting that sweet oil lobbying funds.
What's even more irritating to me is the same people standing in the way of substantial change and progress are the only people who will be able to afford the half assed measures that will come around when everything starts really going to hell. Those giant self sustaining skyscrapers (or whatever else they come up with) will be filled with the same rich assholes who ignored the problem in order to help their bottom line. Meanwhile the people who have been begging for something to be done for decades will be shit outta luck.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
People who don't believe in climate change need to be ridiculed and mocked just like flat earthers, anti vaxxers, creationists, and homeopaths. And none of them should ever be allowed to hold office.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Too late. We already had a Republican senator who brought a snowball to the senate floor as proof that climate change is a hoax.
I'm hoping for this as well.
I expect this to happen in the following 5 years at least.
Things are getting really bad nowadays.
Nope, on an individual level we're pretty much powerless to effect change, it has to be the mega rich top few percent that make the change, and they're too busy trimming profit margins to do anything about it.
We need massive changes to energy generation and distribution, local and international transportation links, agriculture and food production, etc.
I'm curious, why is skepticism a good thing in the face of environmental destruction? What downside do we face from actually doing something now instead of continuing to second guess scientists and live with our heads in the sand?
"Healthy" skepticism in the face of climate change seems more like idiotic skepticism to me.
Healthy skepticism is an integral part of the scientific process.
It says "A 3.5 degrees C increase is considered to be the extinction point" and "The International Energy Agency predicts a 3.5C increase by 2035” (see here)."
AstroNut325
Member
Anyone know of any Climate Change Super PACs?
The only one I'm aware of is NextGenClimate.org and Vote Climate. Any others?
I'm willing to donate a nd more than willing to buy some politicians directly. They're not as expensive as people would believe.
The only one I'm aware of is NextGenClimate.org and Vote Climate. Any others?
I'm willing to donate a nd more than willing to buy some politicians directly. They're not as expensive as people would believe.
afternoon delight
Member
I honestly don't think it ever will... Even as a child I marveled at adults being infatuated with forty hour work weeks, Saturday sale coupons, and McDonalds brunch dates.
lol, what would be the logical reason to do so?
Rational skepticism yes. Climate change skepticism is not rational.
That has more than a little bit to do with huge factory fishing without bothering to think about environmental impact. But yes climate change is hurting species as well....
AstroNut325
Member
Can you back up your claim?
AdventureRacing
Member
I agree and disagree. The problem won't be fully solved by individuals changing their behaviour. That doesn't mean that we as individuals can't have any impact.
We all should be trying to reduce or eliminate our use of cars when possible. Stop using so much electricity or for those who can afford it get solar panels. Try and reduce your intake of meat even if it's by a small amount.
If enough people do this it might actually start to add up. More importantly though it might show the government that people actually do care and that taking climate change won't see them immediately voted out.
The truth is though that the average person doesn't give a fuck and isn't willing to make any changes. There are sometimes when the people simply have to make change happen and this is one of them. The government and big business have too much invested to make the changes required without pressure from the public.
MasterOfPuppets
Member
"We abuse the land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect..."
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
This is always what I think of when the great filter idea comes up. The same traits that led our species to get to the point we are at now are the very traits that are going to drive us to extinction. There's your filter.
MasterOfPuppets
Member
For those would would like to make a change, even a small one, you're probably looking at Gaf on a computer right now. Have the PC go to sleep after 30 minutes of inactivity. All it takes is one mouse click to wake it up so no time is lost waiting for it.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/976877
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/976877
This is misleading you know? You don't have to be a 'climate change denier' publicly to essentially cruise control on climate change legislation or sign off far more offshore drilling platforms or okay far more natural gas drilling and whatnot because you got a 'push' from Exxon Mobil hoping to secure some good favors.
Or like the BP oil spill, intentionally look the other war on the department in charge of okaying these contracts getting lobbyists literally fucking the employees there to get favors and deals.
travisbickle
Member
The government in a capitalist society has only the interests of capital owners in mind.
It's funny when people believe they're somehow in opposition to business interests.
It's funny when people believe they're somehow in opposition to business interests.
Insane Metal
Member
I just read that temperatures this year have been 12ºC (!!) higher than the average in that region. That is seriously fucked up. And yes those wildfires are throwing out a lot of carbon and methane back to the atmosphere.
Astral Dog
Member
We fucked up this beautiful planet 🌎
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Exactly. So when it comes to improving quality of life for future generations part of our job should be addressing the flaws in our current system and laying the foundations for a better one, similarly to what the authors of the US constitution did in the 18th century. One way to do this could be by establishing Education (or more accurately, the lifelong pursuit of greater knowledge and deeper understanding of the world) as a core constitutional ideal of the system, on the same level as Liberty, Justice, Equality etc. These are not just privileges but rather responsibilities that must be constantly upheld by every citizen of the state (unlike free education from K-12 which is merely a privilege in the current system). Crucially, this needs to be in writing as part of the constitution so that future generations continue to abide by it and treat it as law.
Edit: Actually, if we can do that we may also want to add "protecting the environment" as a core constitutional ideal in some form.
rapid population growth and industrialization in the devolping countries are going to cause massive conflics in a not-so-distant future. If the situation reaches a critical point, dangerous enough so that the wealthy nations have no choice but to act, they'll not allow the economically weaker countries to go through the same stages of developement that they enjoyed. In the long run, no one can be allowed to continue putting the entire planet at risk for short-term economical benefits. Right now, the rich countries must lead by example, but it seems something drastic must happen first to change out minds
WordAssassin
Member
I've always really wanted to have a family but I would feel so fucking guilty bringing any children into a doomed world.
Unrelated to that, I know this is going to sound mental, but how realistic is the concept of weather control?
I know it's some kind of sci-fi movie magic fringe pseudoscience but is there any merit there? Is there some kind of way that we could figure out weather control? Force/create rains over dried out places and such or is that just complete fantasy? And if it could be done would it help with global warming at all or with all the shit we've thrown up into the air would it not really make a difference?
Unrelated to that, I know this is going to sound mental, but how realistic is the concept of weather control?
I know it's some kind of sci-fi movie magic fringe pseudoscience but is there any merit there? Is there some kind of way that we could figure out weather control? Force/create rains over dried out places and such or is that just complete fantasy? And if it could be done would it help with global warming at all or with all the shit we've thrown up into the air would it not really make a difference?
https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...g-a-threat-to-humanity-as-it-is-to-our-oceans
There is more but over fishing is a big issue that only just recently has been started to look at seriously. That of course doesn't mean climate change isn't a contributing factor though...
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Long past the point where I care what happens past my own lifespan. Human stupidity will wipe us out regardless of what we attempt to do about climate change. We simply cannot work together on the scale required to make a difference.
I think a lot of people probably don't really know how much that actually is.
Let's say the average temperature in July in my neck of the woods in NJ is 75 degrees Fahrenheit. An increase of 7 degrees Celsius would put us at just below 88 degrees Fahrenheit. In other words...it's fuckin' hot!!!!
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