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How did Nintendo let you down?

argon said:
Nintendo (specifically NOA) doesn't have the inner fire they had in the N64 days. You could definitely tell they were humiliated by the success of the PSX and were pulling out all the stops to beat Sony in sales (which they actually did for several months, if I recall correctly). They made aggressive steps with 2nd party developers and even pursued (non-Mario) sports titles. They got EA on board and even nabbed RE2 for the console, an impressive feat given 3rd parties tended to avoid the system like the plague.

It seems like their neighbors at Redmond really sucked all of NOA's talent pool for their XBox console... I think Ken Lobb was their most high profile defection. So it is fitting then that they pretty much split the N64 base this gen and took the FPS crowd.

With the GCN they seem pretty resigned to 2nd or 3rd as long as they stood profitable. In chess they call that "passive defense" and is a losing strategy.

However, with the DS and Revolution they have crystallized their plan-- stop fighting a war of attrition with Sony and Microsoft, and instead expand the market. I think it's a wise plan for them, and will keep them profitable, but I can't help but wish for the old Nintendo back. Back when they really struck fear in the hearts of would-be competitors.
Even back in the N64 days Nintendo were stubborn and did not have "The inner fire" Nintendo could have done much more to secure more 3rd party titles, yet they decided to turn their backs on the developers by opting for cartridges rather than CD's. it just seems to have become worse this generation. They seem even less bothered about 3rd party support than before and that is a main reason why they have less marketshare than MS and Sony.

I think the choice to make Revolution the way it is now was slightly forced because they realise that it is too difficult to compete directly with Sony and MS. They are still competing with them, but in a a way they are trying to find their own market.

Personally I like the change. We already have Sony and MS who are battling for the most marketshare. Nintendo seem to be a lot more relaxed when it comes to marketshare; they dont seem as bothered really. As long as they are making a profit nothing else matters and to be fair that should be the mentality of a company. Nintendo are trying to bring new experiences to gamers, which I admire because its good to see the market expanding.
 
I had a great time with the NES, but Nintendo let me down with the GC. Other than Zelda, there wasn't much more on the system that interested me. By the time Resident Evil arrived, my GC had long left my house. I'm willing to give N a new chance with the Revolution though, but only when there are enough exciting games out.
 
As you can see by my avatar, I'm not exactly a Nintendo hater. (Besides the fact that I've just been lazy and haven't changed it back since the build to the Revolution unveiling.) Still, though, there was an era on not just Gamecube, but GBA as well, where they seemed to really just phone it in and acted like not a drop of effort was needed past console launch, and in some respects not even before that.

Sunshine was one of the best examples of such a game. No, it wasn't a bad game, the core gameplay was decent and an improvement in several respects over Mario 64. But so many aspects of it could've and should've been better.

Graphically the game was hurting, and really shouldn't have been. Stop screaming "GRAPHICS DON'T MATTER" for a sec, and realize if there's no real reason for the trade-off, why make it in the first place? When you compare Mario 64 and Sunshine, yes, then you can see the contrasted improvements. But to look at Sunshine by itself betrays not only the boxy N64 design roots, but also just some very weak work. Signs blurred to bits, textures just... bleaugh. One of the prettiest areas, Sirena Beach I think it's called, is also one of the most restricted, because you spend almost every mission past the first two running into that stupid hotel and playing Ghostbuster again and again. What's more puzzling is to compare the current stuff to very early shots and materials, which show a completely different, more interesting hub style. Kind of flowing like a Sonic Adventure title, and I think the sludge looked better, too. But most painfully, for as long a time they spent working on the title, they showed it at E3 with 60FPS, but said they were having trouble holding it in the later levels, so when actual release comes around, it's revealed they've chopped it to 30FPS, and it STILL slows down. (Possibly because of the way the water/reflections are coded.) So it's quite possible the early graphical design got pushed back to make way for a better framerate, and then the framerate got cut anyway. And I still can't get over them using pre-rendered, compressed movies for cut-scenes that look like they could've been done in real-time, and yet forgetting to even just patch a hole in Mario's neck when he looks down in the _ending_ movie.

Gameplay... yeah, it was good, and I did like the hover/boost function of the jetpack, but some areas were awkward and unclear to navigate, and the fidgetty camera system that rebounded between being dumb (acceptable) and "intelligent" (fighting you for no reason) didn't make it any easier to figure out the routes through some of the unclear areas. I especially loved the silhouette system for when you were behind walls because of it, which showed Mario clearly, and absolutely everything else with a "?", even the Yoshi you might be riding. Many of the area mechanics or challenges consisted of knocking you off something uncontrollably and agitating or killing you (the wind Boos and bee hives, for example), either one requiring you to repeat a segment until you got your counter-attack/avoid timing right. And so many people cite the retro/blocky levels as great, but while I liked some aspects of them, not only did they have the exact same problem everyone picks on the recent Sonic titles for (being suspended over pits), but many of the mechanics and challenges weren't about you besting the area so much as knowing Mario's limits before he did something you didn't want him to do. My particular favorite is having to walk up a tilting object, to the point whether you could either walk over the rim and be walking on another face, or jump and make the transition. Guess wrong either way, and Mario slides off to death 99.9% of the time.

And it seems like they cut out or ignored things significantly. Years and years after the screaming about no Luigi in Mario 64, and they STILL manage to leave him out? A rather unimpressive one-stage Bowser fight? Maybe the latter ties to a big secret they kept bragging about at first, but then shut up about. Someone here said that the interview was later said to be pointing to the Shine Shirt, but I don't know about that. I've already pointed out that book hidden in the bottom of the Noki Bay stage in a structure designed to be walked through, and they played up in the game that something was wrong with Gadd. (That maybe he's creating situations to test his inventions? I don't know. But Gadd supposedly gave Bowser Jr. his gear, and the way they portrayed it didn't sound like he was forced.)


Mario Kart: Double Dash is also a decent example. Graphically eh in spots (although some of the distance focus effects were interesting), pretty weak music and stage design for many tracks, and above all else, screaming for online by the fans, the perfect time to do it, they go so far as to add in LAN play over the modems, but they refuse online play? Not even a matching service for people willing to otherwise play server. (And the modem situation itself was a mess, their promise to start production on them as soon as a game needed them, then still refusing when Sonic Team kept saying, "Look! PSO, ready to go! Just as soon as you start making 'em!") Even the menus were just... odd. Why did it always exit out to the title screen, instead of the main menu?


To add to that, four years without a single proper original Mario title on the GBA, not even on the level of the Super Mario Land titles, was quite a bit insulting. The port efforts should've been an accessory to original development, not a replacement. It was nice that SMA3 and 4 got added levels, but 4 didn't even have a big chunk of them released, it's impossible to get all the rewards in the game normally simply because there's not enough levels to earn the required Ace coins! All because of the e-Reader, but let's not get into THAT little pleasant peripheral. (I.E. Nintendo's name for "Microtransactions.")


But what really ticked me off is that they kept farming out their core franchises or turning in simplistic ports. I know they WERE tooling away at some big titles, like Wind Waker, but Nintendo is too large to be completely ground to a halt by one core title. Meanwhile, both their console and portable licenses were being filled by Flagship, Hudson, HAL, Namco, Sega, Alphadream, and others, while they still put out virtually no new licenses, and made titles to their existing series at an incredibly slow rate. Yeah, there's Pikmin II, Paper Mario 2 and a few other scattered gems, but even given the exponential difference in dev effort required since the N64 or SNES eras, their production speed seemed to grind to a halt. Maybe because they were assisting with other titles and their farmed-out ones closely, but their own production really suffered because of it, and if they were so distrustful about the result of their farmed-out licenses, maybe they shouldn't have farmed some of them out. I know hindsight is all too clear sometimes and they may not have realized it would take so much touch-up work to put the farm-outs on the level they'd like, but there just seemed to be so little pay-off for it.


I don't know, this isn't the most organized collection of thoughts on the matter. But either way, I feel like the DS is... wow, just a breath of fresh air after the generally stale GCN and GBA period. I mean, damn, in a relatively short time, we're getting TWO different Mario-style platformers. The concept is so shocking that the working title for one has been "New Super Mario Bros." for a long time now. Mario Kart? It's online. An Animal Crossing that fixes every problem with the GCN one, and is online too... damn, that's just beautiful. I would've bought the console even if that was the single only game ever released for it. And 3rd parties are following along with excellent titles of their own, like Castlevania: DoS, Sonic Rush, and Viewtiful Joe Scratch.

I want to see Nintendo what they're doing now on the DS on the Revolution; obviously different in terms of gameplay/interaction, but developing lots of fan-favorite projects that make proper sequels of existing licenses, not spin-offs or awkward gimmicks changing the gameplay too radically, but logical sequels and extensions, along with smartly-designed new licenses, like Another Code/Trace Memory. Games coming out more often that seem like real effort was put into them to make them optimal, not "Oh, let's push out a new Mario Kart. Miyamoto can diddle around for 20 years with Mario 128 "tests", but it seems like he wants to do something completely new, not make a Mario sequel, so hand the Mario sequel off to a dev group that can be trusted with it, like HAL or possibly Alphadream (I don't know how their polywork is, but M&L was spectacular, and M&L2 looks similarly excellent), and let Miyamoto design something new with his ideas, without worrying about how to tie it to Mario. The controller interface for the Rev will indeed make things tricky, but he's been talking about Mario 128 experiments for years (even saying E3 2004 that he wasn't sure which platform it would be on, Rev, GCN, or DS!), and he was probably person 1 to know about the new Rev control interface, heck, he probably helped design it in part. So if he's still mulling over how he should make a Mario title with it, making it sound like he's going to pull another Sunshine on us with a water pack or some other sort of gameplay-altering feature that takes away from it being a "Mario" title (he's gone so far to directly say that it could even be a Sunshine II, he isn't sure), I really think he should focus his creative efforts on something different and new, akin to Pikmin.

Like I said, I'm not a Nintendo hater. I'm just so frustrated that a console like the PS2 offered up some prime gaming goodness, both classic and new (I mean, platformers alone, by dev groups close to Sony, include at least three Jaks, three Ratchet & Clanks (four if you count the most recent one as being in the same style), and three Sly Cooper titles. Nintendo pushed out one Mario platformer that underwhelmed in many respects. Give me the games and I'm happy, but for a long time, Nintendo wasn't giving up the games they got famous for, just these weird half-efforts often tethered to some game-changing gimmick. Mario was cleaning sludge off walls, Samus was in first-person and really focusing on her shooting, Mario Kart was quite obsessed with having two chattery item boxes per funny car, and Starfox kept wanting to walk everywhere. (Actually, I shouldn't even name that, since one was a forced conversion of Dino Planet by Rare at Nintendo's request, the other a farmed-out effort to Namco. But I figured if I even came close to mentioning the forced Zelda graphical style change, I'd be harmed by the defensive mobs.) But man do I love what they're doing with the DS, and I want them to keep it up as long as they can manage it. When I saw a picture of a Doom Ship stage in the new Mario Kart DS, I knew things were right with Nintendo again.
 
Mostly because I think the quality and quantity of their console software has dropped this gen. Most recently they farmed this

243443.jpg


out and we know how that turned out. Also I think Nintendo gives only passing thought to appealing to Western tastes, they throw us a bone like Metroid Prime and that's pretty much it. Not that I don't like Mario and Zelda, but I'd also like to see some other quality exclusive Western type games on their systems. Hopefully Rev will work on this (although I highly doubt it)
 
Ugh, sorry, that was way too long, I probably should've rewritten it from scratch to try to clarify my points better. I just didn't intend it to get so big, I started with a small point, and it just fed upon itself until it became that... mass. :P
 
Saying Nintendo "let me down" strikes me as a bit odd. A company can't "let me down", I don't have that kind of vested interest. I just find myself less interested in what Nintendo has to offer. The DS doesn't interest me in the slightest, neither does the Revolution (maybe when I see some games) and I feel Nintendo's current path will further distance themselves from me as a consumer. Not saying it's a bad choice, just one that doesn't interest me.

/me apathy
 
They don't spend enough time making their games anymore. Most of there sequels in recent years are rush efforts that don't improve much. Their games are too short and have little substance. Satoru Iwata became president of Nintendo.


I'm still really pissed off that I bought Metroid Zero Mission and beat the game in 2 and a half hours. If Metroid Dread is real I hope it's being done by a diffrent team than whoever crapped out Metroid Zero Mission really fast.
 
How did they let me down? Piss poor Pal support, delayed releases, lack of stock, and the prices.
 
Nintendo of Australia is like one guy called Ted, in a shack in Wagga-Wagga. And he sits there all day eating sammiches.

Lack of local support is how nintendo has let me down.
 
Gen X said:
How did they let me down? Piss poor Pal support, delayed releases, lack of stock, and the prices.
I remember in the Uk and getting angry at how long it took Nintendo to release their games. If i was still living there I would have started importing, but luckily I now live in a place where NTSC games are available :D
 
Zensetsu said:
Nintendo of Australia is like one guy called Ted, in a shack in Wagga-Wagga. And he sits there all day eating sammiches.

Lack of local support is how nintendo has let me down.
import next-gen baby!
 
I still blame Iwata for not taking a plan with the GCN and sticking by it. The e-Reader, LAN, Bongos, Dance Mat, Hori Digital Controllers, Game Boy Player, GCN -> GBA link cable, and so forth could go a lot further if they utilized them and THEN stuck by them. They seemed to give up after a few attempts when some of them probably would've worked with the system launch or something.

They also treat their games as if they could just release them and take no hit. Not properly giving their high-budget games like Metroid Prime 1 or 2 the attention they need to succeed financially. Like when Halo 2 and Metroid Prime 2 came out, Nintendo literally shot themselves in the foot by not advertising it as well or as much as they were with Halo and Microsoft.

Whatever happened to the franchise whoring they did back in the early 90s? Wheres my Kirby pink ice cream? And....so on and so forth. Maybe they shouldnt do that.

Especially with 4Kids on their side. That would be a great advantage to the NOA department, get rid of them.
 
As I sit at home and play Metroid Pinball, I am yet once again reminded that Nintendo has not let me down. I have enjoyed many games Nintendo has published, and like all other great game companies, I await their next great creations with patience and enthusiasm.
 
How dramatic, really some of you need to grow some balls and get out there, live life.

Nintendo didn't let you down, your own fucking insecurity did :lol :lol :lol
 
Coming from the SNES, which was full of great 3rd party software, and was THE rpg system, to the N64 was a massive let down.

-No (good) RPGs.
-No (good) Fighters
-muddy crappy graphics
-not enough 3rd party
-Shoddy Controller (decent enough, but manufactured horribly)
-HUUUGE gaps between decent releases
+Nintendos games were awesome

Really, unless you were a big wrestling fan, Goldeneye and it's incredible replay value was the only thing that saved the N64.

Then we had the Gamecube, which had SO MUCH PROMISE. The graphics on the gamecube are aweseome. Today when I play a good gamecube game, I always think, "what could have been..." The problem was again, that not so many people supported it, but in addition, Nintendo's games weren't that good

+great controller
+pretty graphics
-not enough 3rd party, but much, much better than n64
(here comes controversy)

-Metroid Prime wasn't good (bad controls, collectathon)
-Zelda Windwaker wasn't good (giant ocean, collectathon)
-Mario Sunshine wasn't good (felt like a chore, not diversity in levels)
-No Goldeneye like game.

For me, the let down with the gamecube was different. It wasn't the hardware, the hardware was awesome. I just didn't like any of the games.

And then there's the biggest let down ever. NO MOTHER 3 ?????????????????????? Where is it!?

The best things Nintendo has done in the last few years are

+Bringing Advance Wars to North America
+Bringing Fire Emblem to North America
+The DS
 
I stopped being a Nintendo 'fan' when the deviated from their normal 2D action games like Super Metroid and Yoshi's Island. Around 1996 or 1997.
 
I'm amazed by the number of posts claiming the N64 was a better overall platform than the Cube. Maybe it's hard to believe (take the nostalgia glasses off) but the GameCube line-up and 3rd party support trumps that of the N64. RE2 for N64 came way late in the game when nobody even gave a shit anymore. The only other significant Capcom title was a Mickey Mouse puzzler (and the horrid Mega Man 64). And Konami support? Ha. Aside from the two decent Goemon games their contribution to the N64 library was questionable (Hybrid Heaven? DDR with Mickey? Crappy Castlevania games?). If we take a look at that the main 3rd parties have brought to the Cube we would clearly see a distinct and sharp improvement with not only quality but quantity. RE4, 0, REmake, K7, Viewtiful J, Billy H, Tales, Baten, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Phantasy Star, Sonic, etc. There's way too many to list. When it comes down to it the N64 cannot compare. You can literally count the number of quality titles on two hands.
 
DCharlie said:
They've made me happier than they've disappointed me.
That's exactly how I feel. They've done some peculiar things, and their output was slow for having outsourced so many games, but they still made a lot of fantastic stuff.
 
They started aiming most of there good titles towards the kid crowd >_> (zelda/mario etc)

Damn you Nintendo!!

thewird
 
My fandom was lowering over the years, but I think the breaking point was when Celda was first shown. I was so disappointed it knocked the fanboy right out of me. It ended up being a great game yes, but it did the damage. I think that was it.
 
The biggest burn for me was the GBA. I bought one at launch, hoping for a new age of 2d games rivalling that of the Super Nes. I paid the extortionate launch price here in Europe, and was excited by its future prospects.

Course then reality kicked in:

-Shittest screen I have seen on anything. I bought it during summer, and could only truly see it optimally at noon, with the summer sun directly over my head.

- GBA game prices even now here in Europe are fucking absurd. ÂŁ35 at times, which was the same price as console games. Unacceptable, and the main reason I traded the thing in.

- Ports, PORTS, PORTS. Not one proper new Mario platformer on a new 2d nintendo device feels like they should be tried for war crimes. I wanted a new 2d age of games, not the same old games but often ported and shitter! (replacing Yoshi's sounds from SMW2 with his new grating voice is a direct attack on my childhood happyness)

Ironically I traded in my GBA for a Gamecube (when the GC hit laughably low price here), and that too is an obvious disappointment. I am still at a loss as to why Nintendo didnt use the far greater detailed Mario models from Melee in Sunshine. It... still confounds me.
 
- Ports.
- Sitting on their laurels with the N64 and starting their dream team shit.
- Selling me shitty made product so i'm omfwtf enticed to buy the revision one year after.
- Mario Gayshine
- Zelda Wind Wanker
- Where's Mother 3 ?
 
For me it had to be way back in elementary school when I found out about Nintendo's monopolistic actions regarding 3rd party licensing during the NES days. While I'm not saying that Nintendo raped my childhood I never saw them the same way again and it became one of the reasons I asked for a Genesis for my birthday all those years ago.
 
In 2001-2002 I put my "next-gen faith" on the Gamecube. Nintendo releases Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, probably my most anticipated games ever.

'Nuff said.
 
Their new controller wasnt weird enough.

/disappointed
 
Jive Turkey said:
Honestly I'm not sure how anybody can be let down by any particular company unless they are either 1) a frothing fanboy 2) only own one console 3) a repressed frothing fanboy 4) all of the above.

Really...If you own more than 1 console how are you missing out on 3rd parties? Nintendo consoles are for those Nintendo exclusives. Anything extra is good but I'm not gonna go sobbing because GC has the least support.

where are pictures of your avatar?
 
mariosbrother said:
where are pictures of your avatar?
Dunno...I just found the pic online and Scrow was nice enough to crop it for me. Think it was a PR thing for Mario vs. Donkey Kong (she's holding mini Marios)

 
They first let me down with the cruddy N64. Nowadays its with the ripoff DS pricing (games & system). I don't wanna get started on NoA~
 
No Grand Theft Auto.

Grand Theft Auto is the most popular franchise this generation. I don't know why Nintendo hasn't made one yet.
 
"let me down"? haha..oh gaf.

um...the gamecube is pretty boring for what I paid and they don't make games as compelling as their games were way back when. I guess I'm all mad at them and stuff about it. Not really. I'd care more if the market wasn't busting with alternatives.
 
Mihail said:
Grand Theft Auto is the most popular franchise this generation. I don't know why Nintendo hasn't made one yet.

Internal creative differences about whether to whore the Mario brand or the Donkey Kong brand in it.
 
Nintendo's business decisions sometimes disappointed me.

Their design decisions did too sometimes.

But they make games so well - for both their consoles and handhelds - that it's never all that bad.

That's pretty much what it is for me.
 
Whenever people rag on Nintendo, I usually compare them to the catholic church. Sure they SUED to do the things people hate them for (censorship, opressive contracts with game publishers,) but they have genuinely changed for the better.
 
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