How does xbox one cross-game party chat work?
- Thread starter MThanded
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famousmortimer
Banned
But he wasn't wrong. They completely redid how parties work. And he gave a technical explanation as to how they work now.
He *may* be wrong that it will take months to fix, but he isn't wrong that the entire setup is a step backwards from the 360.
People took this post as FUD and SYSTEM WARZZZZ. It's not. It's actually more info on how parties work than you will find on any 'major' site anywhere. If some dev comes forward with proof that this is, in fact, not how parties work - I will gladly say I got one pulled over on me. But the factual info he gave is seemingly correct. His predictions on how long it would take to fix are not.
Or maybe they are. Like I said, it's a game by game thing.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Based on the video that was posted, it still seems to done on the system level, but you have to turn it on now for whatever reason. It's pretty bizarre to be honest, not sure why the decided to go in that direction...
Fourth Stooge
Banned
Which games? And what is not working in those games?
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Cross game party chat was one of the best features of 360. Hopefully they get this worked out.
Garrett 2U
Member
It works the same as it does on the 360 pretty much. Watch the video
Dude, your whole article was wrong and your sources were wrong. Once you enable the setting as shown in the video in the OP party chat works just like on the 360 across all games. There are people in here posting that they are a chat with 5 ppl in 5 different games. You caused a massive thread with FUD.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705280
That's how I read it.
famousmortimer
Banned
My guy never said there weren't parties. There are parties. The difference is in how they are setup.
On the 360 the party infrastructure and VOIP were built into the system. On the xbox one the ability to create parties is built into the system (which is what that video is showing how to turn on) but each game and app needs to program it themselves to be able to talk with the 'party app.'
Is this making sense? It's not just something that works... each game needs to do its own handshake with the party. This is more work for developers and also means more connections starting and stopping in parties (which will lead to more people being dropped).
The dev who I talked to said the new team didn't understand why Allard built things the way he did for the 360 and redid the whole process. As far as I can tell this hasn't made it better. It's possibly made it worse. People have been harping on the wrong thing here because OMFG SYSTEM WARZZZ. And HOLY FUCK I JUST WANT TO PROVE MORT WRONG. Which is silly. I'm going to have an xbox one soon. And I would like parties to work. I'm not rooting for this shit to be fucked up.
But they did change how the entire infrastructure works and I reported on exactly how that is. Microsoft did great work getting it to what seems solid (at 10am on launch day in the US)... but that doesn't change the fact that the entire process is different and my post was about the technical differences.
People need to stop attributing system warzzzz to me and look at the actual info I gave. Like when I reported that COD was 720P. It wasn't LOLOLOLOLOLOL 720P HAHAHAH PS4 IS 1080P SUCK IT XBOTS. It was factual. I can't control the reaction to the stuff I write, but please don't attribute that nonsense to me.
I don't quite see it like that. We, generally as a community, are kinda desperate for real, un-PR-filtered info and news on the systems.
Mort, thuway and a few others went out on a limb and posted what they were hearing. This community took it and ran with it - to then turn around and say 'you shouldn;t have given us exactly what we were clamouring for' is more than a little harsh.
I'm glad we had info coming out TBH.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Ah, okay. I think I get what you're saying. So if the developer isn't able to or decides not to add the party chat features, it wouldn't work and could cause issues such as crashing?
I'll happily admit most of this goes over my head though, so apologies in advance if that's not the right reading of the situation.
Fair enough. If you are saying that it's still correct info then that's fine. I am sure a tech analysis will bring it all out in time anyway.
It was more this paragraph, the opening one of your article, that I think was incendiary and is clearly not true
FamousMortimer said:
The 'One source says we aren’t talking weeks until it works correctly but “months.”' is clearly not to be trusted seeing as you posted this less than a month ago.
famousmortimer
Banned
I agree with that. He did later say that nothing was impossible and that maybe MS would fix it... but, yes, his guestimate on what would be working on day one and what wouldnt would seem to be off base.
This guy isn't in the business of creating FUD for FUD's sake btw, as it will personally hurt his income.
But I stand by him as a source and believe the technical info to be true. If it is proven to not be true I will eat all of the crow. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. It's not fun but I do admit it when it happens.
DTLIONS1013
Member
I got the error "Cannot turn on chat right now"
Nah MS wouldn't have each game dev write boilerplate code. You or him are probably mistaking the fact that each game comes with a version of the GameOS that will be deployed in the GameOS part of the VM. This GameOS has to do handshakes with the SystemOS when dealing with parties so that they are all on the same page and that the GameOS can use the party information for matchmaking and invite purposes. On the 360 there was only one OS and as such did not have to worry about this. I am almost 99% positive that MS would not have each dev implement party chatting.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
But that's exactly what your posts was. Stating facts isn't spreading FUD and isn't anything Console War related, stating and spreading facts is great and should be encouraged more often. Saying the Party System works like _____ is great, thanks for the info. Saying Xbox LIve would be broken, Snap would be broken, Party Chat would be broken, and shit will be fucked for launch isn't a fact, that was a guess, and you had a lot of users believe it and in turn, THAT supported the Console War. Remember all the users posting jokes like "OH SNAP", and throwing the fact that Snap was broken around like it was a fact? Yeah, that spread FUD around.
famousmortimer
Banned
From the Eurogamer interview with Mark Rubin of Infinity Ward
What about the operating systems, exactly, is the problem?
Mark Rubin: There's stuff in the console's OS that interacts with the game. So, for instance, voice chat is often supported by the hardware manufacturer rather than the software, and you're just using their channel. When that stuff is changing - because they're developing it on their side - and the resources they're using are changing - your, from a game design standpoint, challenge is with trying to make enough room for those resources to be used but at the same time use as much resources as possible.
What about the operating systems, exactly, is the problem?
Mark Rubin: There's stuff in the console's OS that interacts with the game. So, for instance, voice chat is often supported by the hardware manufacturer rather than the software, and you're just using their channel. When that stuff is changing - because they're developing it on their side - and the resources they're using are changing - your, from a game design standpoint, challenge is with trying to make enough room for those resources to be used but at the same time use as much resources as possible.
famousmortimer
Banned
But that's exactly what your posts was. Stating facts isn't spreading FUD and isn't anything Console War related, stating and spreading facts is great and should be encouraged more often. Saying the Party System works like _____ is great, thanks for the info. Saying Xbox LIve would be broken, Snap would be broken, Party Chat would be broken, and shit will be fucked for launch isn't a fact, that was a guess, and you had a lot of users believe it and in turn, THAT supported the Console War. Remember all the users posting jokes like "OH SNAP", and throwing the fact that Snap was broken around like it was a fact? Yeah, that spread FUD around.
Where in that article does it say that Snap is broken?
That says the exact opposite of what your point is isn't it?
Rubin is saying that 'they are developing it on their side' (OS level) and that he has to be aware of how much resources to leave free to interact with the OS. He is saying that the footprint and resources of the OS are changing.
If Rubin had to develop it he would say 'we are developing it on our side'
Is that not how you read it and if so, what is your interpretation?
Miles Quaritch
Member
But that's exactly what your posts was. Stating facts isn't spreading FUD and isn't anything Console War related, stating and spreading facts is great and should be encouraged more often. Saying the Party System works like _____ is great, thanks for the info. Saying Xbox LIve would be broken, Snap would be broken, Party Chat would be broken, and shit will be fucked for launch isn't a fact, that was a guess, and you had a lot of users believe it and in turn, THAT supported the Console War. Remember all the users posting jokes like "OH SNAP", and throwing the fact that Snap was broken around like it was a fact? Yeah, that spread FUD around.
Pretty sure Mort didn't claim snap was causing crashes, that was entirely thuway.
All that is saying is that voice chat is using CPU resources and since it is in development as well, the game devs can't reliably know how much CPU they have to work with, and thus is hard to optimize. In fact, that seems to imply that MS is handling all the voice chat stuff at the OS level.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Awesome. Making the player turn it on manually is a bit of a chore, but it's nice to know it works.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
I was thinking that mid-way through.
Not really sure who leaked what anymore, since Thuway, Fort, and CBoAT leaked so much. Sorry about that Fort, my mistake.famousmortimer
Banned
"When that stuff is changing" is him referring to the fact that from one generation to the next, IT IS CHANGING.
Nah man, you are interpreting that wrong. Unless questions before that lead you to make that assumption. When that stuff is changing, is, imo, referring to uodates they are doing to their code.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
LOL... what?! You actually thought this was going to stop because this generation finally began? "These people" are in it for the distance buddy
famousmortimer
Banned
I'm not one to run and hide from this stuff... my leaks aren't vague. I use my real name. People know where I live. I'm also not avoiding this thread or others like it because things didn't turn out exactly how my source said they would (though i do argue the merits of his technical breakdown of how it works).
But there isn't much more I can do. If you don't trust me, that's fine. If mods want to ban me... that's fine as well. If you want to hop on twitter and call my wife a tranny that's fine as well (only because she finds it hysterical).
I reported what I heard and I still believe it to be true. I do agree his opinions on when it would be fixed by were off. Though to say "party chat is perfect" seems to be jumping the gun just a little bit.
Good luck ya'll. Im sure I'll be seeing some of you in xbox specific threads in a couple weeks when i get mine.
But there isn't much more I can do. If you don't trust me, that's fine. If mods want to ban me... that's fine as well. If you want to hop on twitter and call my wife a tranny that's fine as well (only because she finds it hysterical).
I reported what I heard and I still believe it to be true. I do agree his opinions on when it would be fixed by were off. Though to say "party chat is perfect" seems to be jumping the gun just a little bit.
Good luck ya'll. Im sure I'll be seeing some of you in xbox specific threads in a couple weeks when i get mine.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Maybe they are trying to manage so much in terms of background processes at the OS level that having to manage party chat their constantly is viewed as an inefficient use of system resources. If calls are done on a per game basis (i.e., game-to-game), the party chat app might not have to incessantly sit idle in memory, waiting to be used.
I have a PS4. I also have a PS3, but played multiplayer games on Live because of said issue.
Anyway, it sounds like a false alarm.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Why would they ban you? The technical explanation you provided still seems valid. Only the time frame in which it has taken to mitigate the issues has changed. Shit changes. That's life.
Thanks for relaying insider info, though. That is much appreciated.
I think that this:
FamousMortimer said:
Is much MUCH further off than people saying that it is perfect.
I'm sure you did hear what you heard and that person was privy to insider information. But it sounds like that person didn't fully grasp the technical details they were told.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Why would they ban you when so many "insiders" hype thin air on this board?
Nightengale
Member
Mort's source was wrong in his assumptions. Fine. It happens. If you find so much offense in the fact that mort's sources was wrong on his assumptions/opinion of how things will turn out, then what exactly do you want out of it?
Mort said he has faith in this source, though the source made the miss of over-extending his opinion into what he knows, which of course, wasn't ideal.
Separation of insider #truthfacts and #opinions happen at times. I feel that the best way is to put a clear distinction between both, and not placate assumptions that there's a reason for the opinion to be pushed.
TheLegendary
Member
The "problem" is that it causes mass hysteria. Mort commenting on Xbox Live being a mess before it launches should be a no brainer. It's going to be broken. It's being developed, its not in production yet. The problem is people take that info and run with it. But at the same time, insiders should be cognizant enough to know that things are broken while they're being developed, and preface their info with that that. Instead, he and others just fed the flames. Consumer advocacy is fine, but that's just not fair to the people that are working on these systems. IMO
But that's exactly what your posts was. Stating facts isn't spreading FUD and isn't anything Console War related, stating and spreading facts is great and should be encouraged more often. Saying the Party System works like _____ is great, thanks for the info. Saying Xbox LIve would be broken, Snap would be broken, Party Chat would be broken, and shit will be fucked for launch isn't a fact, that was a guess, and you had a lot of users believe it and in turn, THAT supported the Console War. Remember all the users posting jokes like "OH SNAP", and throwing the fact that Snap was broken around like it was a fact? Yeah, that spread FUD around.
Can you calm down? K? Thanks.
digoutyoursoul
Member
You did a podcast a short while back titled Why the Xbox One Will Fail. Why are you buying it if you believe it will be a failure ?
To be fair, I honestly assumed the Vita was in for a short lifespan when I bought it early-on (and I've been pleasantly surprised since). If there is some sort of novelty about a platform or even just a handful of games you might want to play in particular, that doesn't mean you have to think the thing will be successful to enjoy those things.
I bought a Game.Com for God's sake, lol
digoutyoursoul
Member
Yeah good point. I stress I'm not attacking, sorry if it came across that way Mortimer
A game.com?? Jesus man what was you thinking?
famousmortimer
Banned
For the same reason I own a Vita and Wii U. The games.
Nightengale
Member
I understand the points you're making, but I never felt like entertaining the mass hysteria. I don't care that some fools decide to turn a source's opinion into wildfire for console wars. I don't care about the pitchforks that's being riled up outside my yard. I don't care if 10,000 people cancelled their preorders over a bunch of rumours, because if they're proven false, they will pick up the console later anyway.
And they did preface it. For those rounds of rumours, everyone said that it could very well be fixed by launch. Mort only reiterated his source's opinion that it won't.
I felt like everyone was reading too much into the whole thing.
Did you listen to that podcast? Every point Mort raised was very valid, and it was really a talk about MS's 'ecosystem ambition' with the Xbox One rather than about games.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Yes I did listen to it.
Slow isn't what they described it as, more like broke and constantly crashing.
Slow and laggy is broken to me. There's no point in running it if it's going to perform that poorly.
Reading all of the arguing going on here.. and I don't have an Xbone so I can't find this out for myself. Can someone that has one start a party chat with their buddies and then all go into separate games, confirm it works, and then everyone switch games and see if the party chat sticks? It sounds like the switching between games may be where the issue was, but they may have fixed it.
famousmortimer
Banned
Wait, people listen to my podcast?
Nightengale
Member
It's gotten more interesting with Rich joining the crew.
Could use another personality to liven things up. =P
digoutyoursoul
Member
Yes, I think it's great. I disagree with you on some things but you can never agree on everything can you.
