mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Do people think this actually matters? Give me a great unoriginal game, over an original game that's pure average.
How Insomniac stole the heart of Spider-Man.
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
Do people think this actually matters? Give me a great unoriginal game, over an original game that's pure average.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
glad it targets people
zenspider
Member
I understand
Spukc
's point here as someone who loved the "toy" that was controlling Spider-Man, but was completely uninterested in the provided "playset" that was Insomniac's New York - and also have BotW as the easiest contrast in design philosophies.Where Zelda's "open air" environment was a call to adventure, Spider-Man's New York was, to me, a prolonged "Bayonetta loading screen", where I played with the toy while I waited for the linear progression of missions to load. Exploring Hyrule was rewarding in and of itself, where New York was a thing in between point A and B.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
And this is why no open world game is as open as botw.I understand
Where Zelda's "open air" environment was a call to adventure, Spider-Man's New York was, to me, a prolonged "Bayonetta loading screen", where I played with the toy while I waited for the linear progression of missions to load. Exploring Hyrule was rewarding in and of itself, where New York was a thing in between point A and B.
and that fing sucks.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The gaming world would be alot worse if every open world game's philosophies had to be modeled after BOTW.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Dont make me laugh
Panaphonics
Banned
and now imagine having this great traversal PLUS fun non-repetitive gameplay. that's basically sunset overdrive. People shitted on that game so much, why? Because it's an xbox exclusive lol
SlashBringingHasher
Banned
i love insomniac but am not in a too much of a hurry to play this gme. mostl because spiderman isnt my favorite superhero and i wish if it was more cartoony.
mcz117chief
Member
When I started the game I was in love with it, everything felt great but it all faded really soon and now I am stuck somewhere around 50% story completion and the game is an absolute borefest now. Combat is ok but not very entertaining or engaging, traversal is cool for the first few hours then it just becomes a thing you must do, there is nothing to discover or look forward to, the most fun part of the game for me are the puzzles in the lab which I have all finished already. The demons stuff drags on and on and on without any proper development, all the situations that are coming up and all the reveals were obvious from a mile away. Too much padding, too little actual fun parts. Fighting with the shocker was fun, fighting demons, however, is a total bore.
I hope the next game will have a lot less emphasis on free roam and more on carefully crafted semi-linear levels like sewers, bases or buildings.
I hope the next game will have a lot less emphasis on free roam and more on carefully crafted semi-linear levels like sewers, bases or buildings.
Spider-man is a typical PS 4 exclusive, meaning all flash and no substance. There was zero innovation, zero risks taken, nothing memorable at all. Just a generic action game. What's so great about traversal? No skill involved, almost no engagement from the player. The city is dead and so basic like from 2010 or smth. Only one good mission, the one they showed on E3 The boss battles are straight up trash, playing out exactly the same, etc etc
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Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Ristifer
Member
I don't know what people are expecting when they want a comic book game to innovate. What does that mean? People sing Arkham Asylum's praises (and it is a great game), but it's not innovative either. People were just loving the fact that a licensed game was actually worth a damn after so many years of crappy Batman games. And then people will want some wild, unpredictable story. Which is fine and all. But that's still not all that innovative. It'll still be a comic book story at the end of the day.
What's great about the traversal is that it's a lot of fun, and it's supposed to be fun. The skilled aspects were in the combat itself, even if people mastered it fairly quickly. It did have challenging aspects to it.
I agree that the city and the boss battles could be improved, but it's still a pretty good package overall for a team trying out the franchise for the very first time. The comparisons to BotW (not by you specifically) in the thread are laughable. A team tackles an iconic comic book character for the very first time and does it pretty damn well, and with a lot of promise for future installments. That's compared with Nintendo, who've been making Zelda games for decades. And really, when you think about that, Insomniac did a hell of a lot better than whatever BotW was supposed to be. I'll take fun swinging through NYC over walking through empty terrain and stamina bars any day of the week. Hell, give me Wind Waker's sailing over whatever BotW was trying to do.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is system wars. Most of the people here that say the game is too boring are just doing the same console wars crap that we've seen over the last 20 years.
VulcanRaven
Member
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quickwhips
Member
I meant more peter face and mj. But some of the costumes are just ok also and fee forgettable.I agree that some character didn't look very good. Scorpion for example:
Except Batman had an innovative fighting system that was later copied by other games, including this Spider-man. Batman had a fully developed stealth aspect with a pretty good ai. Arkham Asylum didnt take someone else's template and slapped a batman skin on it. Its pretty obvious the devs tried to do something unique with the game(the same goes for Arkham City). Whereas Insomniac just created a basic open world filled with basic activities, didnt add anything interesting to shake up the formula and wrapped everythting in a high budget production values, thats all. The only good mission, as i said, was the e3 one, where they gave you this giant construction set and you were free to fly between two skyscrapers and deal with the baddies. I cant remember any other mission, they either took place in some cramped indoors space or some other unmemorable stuff.
Ristifer
Member
A free-flowing combat system wasn't unique at that time. Neither was a developed stealth system. Those had both been used plenty of times. They were new for Batman games, perhaps. Still doesn't mean it's a highly innovative game. Spider-Man using stealth takedowns is such a non-issue. That's not the main emphasis of the game anyway.
And I'm not arguing about the city. It was fairly basic. But it was still a highly polished game. There's plenty of room for improvement, which is fine. It doesn't have to be perfect right out of the gate.
Can you give examples of such a system in other games? The way animation transitioned between punches and blocks and context sensitive actions were rather unique imho.
Stealth wasn't innovative obviously(although the way enemies panicked and changed behaviour was rather fresh) but as we compare two games, Batman had a good stealth, Spider-man doesn't.
Arkham Asylum was not only a great superhero game, it was above average in general. The same cant be said about Spider-man, unfortunately
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JimiNutz
Banned
For those saying that there is no challenge in traversal or combat, I do understand where you would get this idea because they do make both systems very accessible so that you do actually 'feel' like Spider-Man but to say there is no challenge at all is wrong.
Play some of the advanced combat or bomb disposal challenges and try to achieve the highest rank and you will see that there is plenty of challenge.
When traversing the environment you will have to carefully pick the optimum route to ensure that you reach the bombs as quickly as possible and you will have to use the point launch to add speed rather than just swinging from place to place.
In terms of combat, the advanced challenges will require that you utilise your different gadgets to deal with different enemy types and prioritise the correct targets to get the best scores. You also need to ensure that you aren't just spamming basic attack as that's the longest way to defeat the advanced enemies and will get you a very low score.
I'm not saying that any of the above examples are extraordinarily difficult or unique to the game but they do add a level of challenge and I think it's unfair to say that the traversal and combat systems are void of any challenge or depth at all. Maybe the story mode itself doesn't always encourage players to progress beyond basic traversal or combat and that's something that they should improve on in the sequel but the various optional enemy bases and Taskmaster or Screwball challenges do force you to apply the more advanced traversal and combat systems.
Play some of the advanced combat or bomb disposal challenges and try to achieve the highest rank and you will see that there is plenty of challenge.
When traversing the environment you will have to carefully pick the optimum route to ensure that you reach the bombs as quickly as possible and you will have to use the point launch to add speed rather than just swinging from place to place.
In terms of combat, the advanced challenges will require that you utilise your different gadgets to deal with different enemy types and prioritise the correct targets to get the best scores. You also need to ensure that you aren't just spamming basic attack as that's the longest way to defeat the advanced enemies and will get you a very low score.
I'm not saying that any of the above examples are extraordinarily difficult or unique to the game but they do add a level of challenge and I think it's unfair to say that the traversal and combat systems are void of any challenge or depth at all. Maybe the story mode itself doesn't always encourage players to progress beyond basic traversal or combat and that's something that they should improve on in the sequel but the various optional enemy bases and Taskmaster or Screwball challenges do force you to apply the more advanced traversal and combat systems.
prag16
Banned
So every open world game needs to be modeled after BotW otherwise it's automatically unplayable trash? GTFO of here.Dont make me laugh
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D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I really loved it. Great story, liked all the characters, fun as hell swinging around the city and solid combat. Like most, didn't care for the MJ/Miles parts. I hate stealth in general, and those segments were clunky. I liked playing as multiple characters, just didn't care for the gameplay. The sequel should improve that with Miles having powers now, and hopefully there will more story sidequests and fewer collectibles and crime fights.
In terms of open worlds, I much prefer small ones like this to huge, open ones like BOTW. Hell, I still fast traveled a lot in this even with the smaller world and fun traversal. Exploring open worlds just isn't very enjoyable to me and I mostly just want to get to objectives quickly and get on with the game.
In terms of open worlds, I much prefer small ones like this to huge, open ones like BOTW. Hell, I still fast traveled a lot in this even with the smaller world and fun traversal. Exploring open worlds just isn't very enjoyable to me and I mostly just want to get to objectives quickly and get on with the game.
Paulistano
Member
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Ristifer
Member
Well, one particular example just for comparison's sake would be Spider-Man 2 from 2004. It's not exactly the same, and it's clunky, but that was five years prior to AA. And it was a Spider-Man game. Rocksteady was able to perfect that kind of combat, which is awesome. That's why I say it's a great game. But it's not breaking ground that hasn't already been broken before. In fact, I think Insomniac took a lot more from Spider-Man 2 than from any of the Arkham games. But that was purposeful.
I think the stealth was just fine. It wasn't as good, but I don't need to be the ultimate stealth machine when I'm Spider-Man. Batman's a different story. Still, using trip mines was hilarious when hiding up on some bar or light post. At the end of the day, they're just two different characters. Batman's stealth is meant to intimidate and freak out the bad guys. Spider-Man's strength is his mobility during confrontation. They're not meant to be the same, and it's good that they didn't try to equate them like that in the gameplay.
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Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Stop hooting
prag16
Banned
This is constructive, and a great way to make a case.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
uhuh
JimiNutz
Banned
Insomniac exist just to make Ratchet & Clank, why are they wasting time making Spider-Man?
I liked the last Ratchet & Clank but Spider-Man just sold 9 million copies and is one of the best selling PS4 games of all time. Let Insomniac enjoy all that cash.
Exactly!! idk why BOTW is brought up as a comparison, it was such a borefest piece of junk...
Paulistano
Member
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Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Just FYI, Spider-Man PS4 is one of the best games ever made. No exaggeration.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
no ts not its a generic ass salad
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kevin_trinh
Member
If any Open world rpg game has the same world as Zelda i'll throw it to trash can, what a waste of resource
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I understand
Where Zelda's "open air" environment was a call to adventure, Spider-Man's New York was, to me, a prolonged "Bayonetta loading screen", where I played with the toy while I waited for the linear progression of missions to load. Exploring Hyrule was rewarding in and of itself, where New York was a thing in between point A and B.
I felt and feel completely at odds with you regarding Spider-man and its NYC setting (BotW is also a super fine open world): this is the best modern, alive, and realistic interpretation of an open world city setting I have played to date. Exploring the environment, watching how many pedestrians, cars, animals, all the active NPC's living their daily lives there are... the car traffic... all fantastic and immersion creating. Spidey is enjoyable to control, jumping on building, swinging about, etc... because of the environment it is in.
Most other modern city environment, even detailed ones, seem to be comparatively much more sparsely populated. This finally feels like NYC.
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zenspider
Member
I don't doubt it! I wish could understand the difference in how we are playing or interpreting the game. Insomniac's NYC could be the richest city in gaming, but for me (and it seems others), the overall design and structure of the game positioned it as an obstacle course between objective markers at best, and an interactive loading screen between linear missions at worst.
I suspect there is a flaw in the design that has to be overcome by the player's love of the setting, character, or interactive toy that is Spider-Man. Rather than being a great Spider-Man game, maybe it was a mediocre game design salvaged by the license.
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"That girl is beautiful, and you can have her...she's waiting for you... She wants you.... She is the most desirable woman in the whole college"
"Nah, the model I fap to is better..."
Or
The tale of the Fox and the grape.
The comparison with Zelda BOTW makes zero sense.
One is an action-adventure game with semi-realistic setting, in which exploration is secondary, the other is an open world JRPG in a fantasy setting.
Exploration, combat, characters, art styles, etc.... Everything else is so different that there is no point in comparing them.
Valid comparisons to Spider-Man would be Arkham series, Infamous series, even Horizon.
AND Spider-Man is arguably better than all of the above.
You can enjoy both Spider-Man and Zelda. You could play both and they share nothing.
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xool
Member
Open world isn't really Spiderman's selling point, though web slinging around is really good. The combat is spot on imo. Way better feeling than what I've experienced of the Batman games.
Combat challenges are/were some of the best fun I've had this gen - I'd say Platinum quality, though a little too easy, but with far better control scheme.
Pity there isn't a demo you could try - I think one of the "clear the thug's hideout" as a demo would sell the game to most people.
[edit - plays way better than HZD mostly due to HZD's defiencies - ie bow feels weak, melee is one note etc]
[edit2 - Better game than GoW, and I absolutely hate Peter Parker, so no bias]
[edit3 - Boss battles were meh 7/10 though weren't they - even the fans get amnesia on those]
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The boss battles were "weak", I'll admit that.
But Insomniac wanted to make more of a cinematic experience than a gameplay one (weak argument, I know).
However, allow me to say that the optional (sigh) boss battles with Taskmaster were awesome.
I mean, sending him over a skyscraper and continuing the fight below on the streets among civilians against an opponent that could copycat your own moves is priceless.
Also, the first fight is totally unpredictable.
I also enjoyed the Tombstone boss fight.
Nymphae
Banned
I had a ton of fun with the Rhino fight and the Scorpion/Vulture fight. Rhino was a fucking thrill to chase, and ditto the other two in the prison area, and then I also had a blast fighting the two of them in the arena while zipping around constantly, it wasn't just lame ground combat.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
People keep saying BotW. Do you mean Breathe of the Wild, the Zelda game or am i missing something?
stickkidsam
Member
An excellent game made by some rad dudes.
I gotta admit though, I was disappointed with the swinging. They made it pretty fun but there was no consequence for fucking up and it felt like there wasn't much to master. The combat had a good variety of abilities and some alright enemies.
I gotta admit though, I was disappointed with the swinging. They made it pretty fun but there was no consequence for fucking up and it felt like there wasn't much to master. The combat had a good variety of abilities and some alright enemies.
jonnyp
Member
My condolences then. I still don't understand what you're doing in this thread if that's your opinion.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Understanding how for you the obstacle course could be the game you actually wanted it to be would perhaps help. I appreciate you taking the time to respond even if we may end up agreeing to disagreeing... still interesting for me
.
zenspider
Member
Understanding how for you the obstacle course could be the game you actually wanted it to be would perhaps help. I appreciate you taking the time to respond even if we may end up agreeing to disagreeing... still interesting for me
You're right, and I think that's an issue I have -maybe personally - with most open-world style games. The driving narrative has this false sense of urgency that makes, well, the fun bits feel like fucking around. That's why my favorites in the genre are BotW and Xenoblade Chronicles X, which both have narrative and gameplay mechanisms to differentiate 'urgent' from 'important'.
I do usually blame the game, but maybe I'm being lazy, and need to find a different way to approach them.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It actually makes a lot of sense from that angle... you can suspend disbelief, but being told something important needs to happen now and the character allowing the player controlling it to play around as if it had nothing on its mind may seem weird.
I think it is the conflict between being given full player agency and still controlling a character with its own feelings and narrative purpose.
kevin_trinh
Member
Some Botw fanboi still don't understand that different genre require different style of Open World. World of Botw is best for Botw only, because it fit for the genre. Botw is an adventure game with some RPG element, so the world in the game require it to be interacted by the character to solve puzzle, travel, combat etc....
While in a RPG game like Xenoblade X...World in those game require "things" to explore: hidden boss, quest, rare item, enemies, dungeon etc...Why the fk should dev waste their resource to make character can interact with every stone in the world? This is an RPG game, i don't care how many time my horse shit in 1 day, give me more hidden things to explore, that all i care.
And if it a sandbox game, biggest thing in this world is the random event, you maybe miss some event forever in RDR2. Those type of game are too famous so i don't need to explain anymore.
While in a RPG game like Xenoblade X...World in those game require "things" to explore: hidden boss, quest, rare item, enemies, dungeon etc...Why the fk should dev waste their resource to make character can interact with every stone in the world? This is an RPG game, i don't care how many time my horse shit in 1 day, give me more hidden things to explore, that all i care.
And if it a sandbox game, biggest thing in this world is the random event, you maybe miss some event forever in RDR2. Those type of game are too famous so i don't need to explain anymore.
Silent blades
Member
Loved Spider-Man thought it was fantastic.