Support NeoGAF

[Plinko]

The amount of willingly blind 3DS fans in this thread (at least the ones I've seen) might prove how insular dedicated handheld/console gaming is becoming.

The 3DS is outselling Wii U and Vita for sure, but it's not doing terribly well. Considering what the 3DS and Wii U are following in the footsteps in (the DS and Wii), they're truly unsettling if you use them as barometers for the health of the industry.

The mediocre-at-best successes of these three devices definitely worries me for the years to come.

People need to realize we'll never see DS numbers again. It's not happening for a dedicated game handheld in a world saturated with iOS/smartphones/tablets.

As for 3DS, in some areas of the world I believe software is actually doing better than DS at this point in their lives.

 

[MYE]

I expect nintendo to do a new, major marketing move on the Wii U.
Current ads and marketing has been shit!

 

[Meelow]

Since we are talking about what is next gen or not.

Couldn't you say the PS1/Saturn weren't next gen when they released? The N64 was noticeably more powerful.

Next gen doesn't = power, next gen = the new consoles.

Nintendo:
NES = 3rd Gen
SNES = 4th Gen
N64 = 5th Gen
GCN = 6th Gen
Wii = 7th Gen
WiiU = 8th Gen

Sony
PS1 = 5th Gen
PS2 = 6th Gen
PS3 = 7th Gen
PS4 = 8th Gen

Microsoft
Xbox = 6th Gen
X360 = 7th Gen
X720 = 8th Gen

Sega
MS = 3rd Gen
Gen = 4th Gen
Sat = 5th Gen
DC = 6th Gen

 

[MemoryHumanity]

Lol at 3DS "struggling."

 

[Currygan]

Since we are talking about what is next gen or not.

Couldn't you say the PS1/Saturn weren't next gen when they released? The N64 was noticeably more powerful.

Next gen doesn't = power, next gen = the new consoles.

Nintendo:
NES = 3rd Gen
SNES = 4th Gen
N64 = 5th Gen
GCN = 6th Gen
Wii = 7th Gen
WiiU = 8th Gen

Sony
PS1 = 5th Gen
PS2 = 6th Gen
PS3 = 7th Gen
PS4 = 8th Gen

Microsoft
Xbox = 6th Gen
X360 = 7th Gen
X720 = 8th Gen

Sega
MS = 3rd Gen
Gen = 4th Gen
Sat = 5th Gen
DC = 6th Gen

mate, you are right, but shield yourself

 

[Fusebox]

I'm sorry, and this is gonna make me sound jaded, but I don't consider any of those three devices "Next-Gen". Not even a little bit... handhelds are not in the same market as home consoles and WiiU is... well, an "other".

Next-gen for me starts this fall, and not a moment sooner.

Claiming that there's no such thing as a next-gen handheld doesn't make you sound jaded, it just makes you sound like you don't known what next-gen means.

 

[MYE]

Labels are never concrete, they change their definitions as society uses them to describe different things. I don't understand your obsession to think otherwise.

C'mon man. Really? lol

 

[StuBurns]

Couldn't you say the PS1/Saturn weren't next gen when they released? The N64 was noticeably more powerful.

Since it came out two years later, no, you could not.

 

[BlackJace]

Wii U is definitely a next gen system. But it's not next gen hardware.

I can jam to this.

 

[Spongebob]

Even though the Wii U is technically a next-gen machine, it doesn't give me that next-gen feel.

Wii U and VITA are strongly because of bad marketing, not because they're next-gen consoles.

Since we are talking about what is next gen or not.

Couldn't you say the PS1/Saturn weren't next gen when they released? The N64 was noticeably more powerful.

Next gen doesn't = power, next gen = the new consoles.

It kind of does.

 

[Meelow]

Nevermind.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

It's gonna be fun to watch all the bad sales for all the systems.

I agree gets the fanboys so defensive. I like it best when it changes each generation. The hypocrisy and back stepping some of them do is nothing short of spectacular.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The 3DS is outselling Wii U and Vita for sure, but it's not doing terribly well. Considering what the 3DS and Wii U are following in the footsteps of (the DS and Wii), they're truly unsettling if you use them as barometers for the health of the industry.

Who expected the 3DS and Wii U to outsell their predecessors? Show of hands? By that measure of success, both were near locks to fail from the start.

Spoiler

I expected the 3DS to beat the DS in lifetime sales but even I could see the Wii U not matching the Wii in sales

 

[StuBurns]

The PS1 and Saturn came out a year before N64...

They both came out in 1994, the N64 came out in 1996, if you want to argue specific months, fine, but it's completely irrelevant to the point. You can't have standards before they exist, if it's a month, a year, or two.

 

[Razdek]

PS+ and PS4 will be the saviors of the Vita.

No it won't but keep clinging to that hope. We'll see when the PS4 is released if it does.

 

[Meelow]

They both came out in 1994, the N64 came out in 1996, if you want to argue specific months, fine, but it's completely irrelevant to the point. You can't have standards before they exist, if it's a month, a year, or two.

Yeah I forgot the PS1/Saturn Came out in Japan earlier.

Sorry.

 

[Subtle]

Even though the Wii U is technically a next-gen machine, it doesn't give me that next-gen feel.

Oh lordy lord lord. That next-gen feel...

 

[axisofweevils]

Personally, I feel that every new console will struggle. I really can't see the PS4 and the Durango being sell-outs, to be honest.

We just have to accept that we'll never reach the heights of a console selling 100m again in this post iPhone world.

 

[MYE]

From this day forth, I proclaim the Sega Saturn as "other gen". The 3DS belongs in the PSP gen and the DS is "wierd gen".

The Dreamcast doesnt count as it died to quickly to earn a place in history. A new branch shall be created for it and the GameGear, 3DO and other failures.

Someone bring in the pre-Hyrule Historia timeline crowd. We got work to do!

 

[Thai]

Next gen doesn't start until Sony says so

 

[SmokyDave]

Oh lordy lord lord. That next-gen feel...

Generally defined by a large jump in scope and visual fidelity from the machines currently available on the market. If you don't get it now, you will by the end of the year.

 

[Odrion]

C'mon man. Really? lol

Uh, yes? It's called semantic change.

 

[Esura]

It actually does matter since for many years the generations were in fact broken down by power. ie 8 bit gen, 16 bit gen, 32 bit, 64bit. Call the Wii U next gen all you want. It won't make it next gen to me, but it also doesn't stop it from being the latest console from Nintendo. A meaningless distinction that starts far too many fights on forums.

Gaming generations aren't defined by power since the term generations refer to a period of time. Previous generations could be broken down by power if you wanted to because it so happens that each generation kept getting more powerful. It's not a meaningless distinction and it only starts fights on forums because people can be stubborn and insist that their flawed definition is above what is already established.

WiiU is considered an eighth generation gaming console (which is next gen). It might not be a next gen console to you but for most people it is.

 

[StuBurns]

From this day forth, I proclaim the Sega Saturn as "other gen". The 3DS belongs in the PSP gen and the DS is "wierd gen".

The Dreamcast doesnt count as it died to quickly to earn a place in history.

The difference with that is you didn't make those systems. Nintendo called the Wii 'new-gen', they're the people who started this idea that performance was relevant. Not a random poster on GAF.

 

[Subtle]

From this day forth, I proclaim the Sega Saturn as "other gen". The 3DS belongs in the PSP gen and the DS is "wierd gen".

The Dreamcast doesnt count as it died to quickly to earn a place in history.

Dreamcast is in "dead gen #5"

 

[Plinko]

Lol at 3DS "struggling."

It hasn't met Nintendo's forecasts, although it's dominating Japan. I'm sure Cheebo will be in here to explain.

 

[Baconsammy]

Personally, I feel that every new console will struggle. I really can't see the PS4 and the Durango being sell-outs, to be honest.

We just have to accept that we'll never reach the heights of a console selling 100m again in this post iPhone world.

Get used to it, PS3 is most likely going to do it next.

 

[Subtle]

Generally defined by a large jump in scope and visual fidelity from the machines currently available on the market. If you don't get it now, you will by the end of the year.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't played a WiiU game that makes me say, "This is next gen" and I see what he means, but his post reads like PR.

 

[AZ Greg]

So if I've been playing some of the best looking PC games maxed out and the PS4/720 don't give me that "next-gen feel" are they then not next-gen consoles?

Or do we add more qualifiers and not count the PC in order to bolster our argument?

 

[MYE]

The difference with that is you didn't make those systems. Nintendo called the Wii 'new-gen', they're the people who started this idea that performance was relevant. Not a random poster on GAF.

And we cant see past what clearly was a marketing move to shift focus from the systems lack of power when compared to the PS360?

 

[StuBurns]

And we cant see past what clearly was a marketing move to shift focus from the systems lack of power when compared to the PS360?

Next-gen is marketing too, you just choose to take that seriously.

 

[Fusebox]

No it won't but keep clinging to that hope. We'll see when the PS4 is released if it does.

I'm not "clinging to hope", my Vita has already been more than worth the investment, but can I borrow your crystal ball when you've finished with it Nostradamus, thanks.

 

[Kyon]

Next Gen doesn't start till PS4 is out tbh

PS420 will not struggle

Nintendos gimmicks finally caught up with them with the Wii U. They need to start making dedicated gaming machines for the core gamer and my stop with the gimmicks for the casual audience there is a reason the Wii's sales fell off the face of the earth for years now.

 

[Cromat]

Next-gen isn't some sort of legal definition. It's a matter of perception.

Whether the Wii U is considered next-gen is down to whether it is generally accepted to provide a tangible improvement to gaming that wasn't possible in the last generation of hardware.

I'd say the Wii U fails this test and consumer demand is evidence of that. On the other hand the Wii was next-gen because it was perceived as an innovation delivering experiences that weren't possible before.

 

[Razdek]

I'm not "clinging to hope", my Vita has already been more than worth the investment, but can I borrow your crystal ball when you've finished with it Nostradamus, thanks.

You're the one that said PSN+ and PS4 will be the saviour of the Vita so who was predicting the future there Nostradamus?

 

[MYE]

Next-gen is marketing too, you just choose to take that seriously.

Its marketing and its a true descritpion of a new major console release.

 

[SmokyDave]

So if I've been playing some of the best looking PC games maxed out and the PS4/720 don't give me that "next-gen feel" are they then not next-gen consoles?

Or do we add more qualifiers and not count the PC in order to bolster our argument?

Why would you count the PC in any console generation?

 

[StuBurns]

Its marketing and its a true descritpion of a new major console release.

But 'new' isn't? You literally just called it that.

 

[Subtle]

Next-gen isn't some sort of legal definition. It's a matter of perception.

Whether the Wii U is considered next-gen is down to whether it is generally accepted to provide a tangible improvement to gaming that wasn't possible in the last generation of hardware.

I'd say the Wii U fails this test and consumer demand is evidence of that. On the other hand the Wii was next-gen because it was perceived as an innovation delivering experiences that weren't possible before.

Tbh, that definition of next-gen is bollocks. Nintendo Land wasn't possible last gen. However, what will PS4 offer that simply wasn't possible on the PS3? More particles? PS4 is next gen, but it doesn't fit into your definition imo.

 

[Fusebox]

You're the one that said PSN+ and PS4 will be the saviour of the Vita so who was predicting the future there Nostradamus?

Haha, touché.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Next Gen doesn't start till PS4 is out tbh

PS420 will not struggle

Nintendos gimmicks finally caught up with them with the Wii U. They need to start making dedicated gaming machines for the core gamer and my stop with the gimmicks for the casual audience there is a reason the Wii's sales fell off the face of the earth for years now.

+1

I am kinda glad the WiiU is failing. Nintendo should stop beating around the bush and just release a dedicated gaming console. One that has their first parties and all third parties. It will be beautiful.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Claiming that there's no such thing as a next-gen handheld doesn't make you sound jaded, it just makes you sound like you don't known what next-gen means.

When someone mentions the next gen of gaming to me I'm not thinking about handhelds is all I'm saying. I'm thinking about home consoles. Home consoles have always been the main force that pushes the industry forward.

Yeah, every new generation of handhelds is technically next-gen, sure. But again, handhelds are pretty far from my mind when the words "next-gen" pop up. Thus, next-gen is usually associated with home consoles to me.

 

[AZ Greg]

Why would you count the PC in any console generation?

Where did I say that I do? I was just responding more to the comment from the guy saying he defines it by the consoles that give him that "next-gen feel". If that feel has been dampened for some due to their exposure to high-end PC gaming then how should they define console generations?

 

[Subtle]

+1

I am kinda glad the WiiU is failing. Nintendo should stop beating around the bush and just release a dedicated gaming console. One that has their first parties and all third parties. It will be beautiful.

That went really well for them with the Gamecube and Nintendo 64!

 

[Odrion]

Sega
MS = 3rd Gen
Gen = 4th Gen
Sat = 5th Gen
DC = 6th Gen

You forgot the Sega CD.

 

[Meelow]

Wii U = Next gen gameplay

PS4 = Next gen graphics

Is that fair?

Yup, this sure makes sense when you forget to mention the Sega 32x and the Sega CD.

Those are add on's though, I don't count add on's lol.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

This is the beginning of the end for Hollywood style game publishing and development. It will be interesting to see if MS and Sony are still in in 3 years.

 

[Baconsammy]

Gaming generations aren't defined by power since the term generations refer to a period of time. Previous generations could be broken down by power if you wanted to because it so happens that each generation kept getting more powerful. It's not a meaningless distinction and it only starts fights on forums because people can be stubborn and insist that their flawed definition is above what is already established.

WiiU is considered an eighth generation gaming console (which is next gen). It might not be a next gen console to you but for most people it is.

Even EA doesn't consider Wii U to be part of the same generation as PS4/Xbox. When devs talk about future games going to next gen consoles and also being ported down to Wii U/PS3/360, they're clearly not regarding the Wii U as a next gen console. It's about power and capability to them, as it should be. It's a silly distinction that Nintendo fans get too upset over. Unless someone is purposely slighting Nintendo, there's no reason to get one's knickers in a twist over someone innocuously referring to PS4 as the start of next gen.

 

[Kyoufu]

That went really well for them with the Gamecube and Nintendo 64!

Well they've done the same thing here, but with weaker hardware.

Wii U = Next gen gameplay

PS4 = Next gen graphics

Is that fair?

Nothing I've played on Wii U is "next gen gameplay". I don't know what that means though. Care to elaborate?

 

[Cromat]

Tbh, that definition of next-gen is bollocks. Nintendo Land wasn't possible last gen. However, what will PS4 offer that simply wasn't possible on the PS3? More particles? PS4 is next gen, but it doesn't fit into your definition imo.

You're right but this isn't about substance, it's all perception.

The only way to decide whether a system is next-gen is to see if its perceived as such. There is nothing more to that definition.