How much more powerful was the N64 compared to the PlayStation anyway?

Oh come on, you're being silly. I'm sure you know full well that N64 games never require you to use both the d-pad and analog stick at the same time, so your "complaint" here is entirely, 100% irrelevant. Games either use the analog stick, or the d-pad. Not both. It's a good concept.

The N64 controller's better than either of those, overall.

I never said you used both the D-pad and the analogue stick at the same time, but having to constantly move your hand between handles is just cumbersome, and the result of a badly designed controller. Why do you think no post-N64 controllers have copied the N64 design, but rather opted for a more DualShock-like design?

And no. Just no.
 
I made me some crash 3 gifs :o

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I had forgotten Crash 3 had detailed lip synching. Naughty Dog truly are the masters of whatever hardware they touch.

A couple of gifs showing the detailed keyframed animation:

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Those BK gifs are also pretty nice, but Crash is simply much more expressive. Facial animation is non-existent in BK.
To be fair the Banjo games were not supposed to have amazing facial animation in the first place, the characters are mumbling stuff not speaking english. With all due respect comparing Crash 3 to Banjo Tooie is laughable, the Crash games are basically on rails platformers. Banjo Tooie on the other hand had massive worlds, hell off the top of my head it's still the biggest platformer I've ever played. Crash 3 isn't even in the same league as Banjo Tooie and that's putting it nicely.
 
I never said you used both the D-pad and the analogue stick at the same time, but having to constantly move your hand between handles is just cumbersome, and the result of a badly designed controller.
But there are almost no N64 games that require you to use both the analog stick and d-pad, as I said. Games are either/or, not both. So again, your "complaint" is entirely irrelevant. The only time you'd be switching from one to the other is between games, and you're likely to put down the controller when you go to put the other game in, yes?

Seriously, you're just making stuff up in order to bash the system. What you're talking about doesn't happen in more than a low single digits number of N64 games. And even there it's generally optional.

Why do you think no post-N64 controllers have copied the N64 design, but rather opted for a more DualShock-like design?
Sales. Purely sales. Copy the one who sold better, even if their controllers are worse. Controllers have certainly not gotten better a a result of it, but everyone's done it, sadly.

To be fair the Banjo games were not supposed to have amazing facial animation in the first place, the characters are mumbling stuff not speaking english. With all due respect comparing Crash 3 to Banjo Tooie is laughable, the Crash games are basically on rails platformers. Banjo Tooie on the other hand had massive worlds, hell off the top of my head it's still the biggest platformer I've ever played. Crash 3 isn't even in the same league as Banjo Tooie and that's putting it nicely.
Yeah, that's putting it quite nicely...
 
To be fair the Banjo games were not supposed to have amazing facial animation in the first place, the characters are mumbling stuff not speaking english. With all due respect comparing Crash 3 to Banjo Tooie is laughable, the Crash games are basically on rails platformers. Banjo Tooie on the other hand had massive worlds, hell off the top of my head it's still the biggest platformer I've ever played. Crash 3 isn't even in the same league as Banjo Tooie and that's putting it nicely.

We are only discussing animation here, duder.

p.s. Crash doesn't talk either, yet his face is very expressive, there's no excuse for Banjo's to be static.
 
But there are almost no N64 games that require you to use both the analog stick and d-pad, as I said. Games are either/or, not both. So again, your "complaint" is entirely irrelevant. The only time you'd be switching from one to the other is between games, and you're likely to put down the controller when you go to put the other game in, yes?

Seriously, you're just making stuff up in order to bash the system. What you're talking about doesn't happen in more than a low single digits number of N64 games. And even there it's generally optional.


Sales. Purely sales. Copy the one who sold better, even if their controllers are worse. Controllers have certainly not gotten better a a result of it, but everyone's done it, sadly.

I misread your previous post, I thought you meant there were no games where you had to use both the stick and the D-pad at the same time. Anyway, it's been ages since I last played any N64 game, but didn't the D-pad have some sort of function in that Star Wars game which name escapes me, in conjunction with the stick? And I'm not bashing the system. The system is generally fine (although it doesn't have all that many games I personally care about), I just utterly despise that awful controller.

So you don't think ease of use had any say in how Nintendo and Microsoft have designed their controllers, it's all due to how much the PS1 sold?
 
I don't get what animation has to do with the topic?

Surely it's just down to how much time the developer devoted to it?

And Crash has nice animation for it's day, sure, i wouldn't call it amazing though. Banjo animates a lot smoother. Yeah, it doesn't have the facial stuff going on, but that's probably because they were busy creating huge worlds and sorting the gameplay out.
 
I don't get what animation has to do with the topic?

Surely it's just down to how much time the developer devoted to it?

And Crash has nice animation for it's day, sure, i wouldn't call it amazing though. Banjo animates a lot smoother. Yeah, it doesn't have the facial stuff going on, but that's probably because they were busy creating huge worlds and sorting the gameplay out.

Eh it's just snowballed from someone saying that Rare had the best character designs in the genre back then. Nothing wrong with discussing this particular graphical aspect, even if it's more due to the artistic talent of the developer.

This topic is just about anything regarding the PS1 and the N64 at this point. :P
 
For those questioning the N64s 2D abilities, I give you Wonder Project J2.

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Clearly the system could pull off good 2D visuals, developers just didn't want to.
 
This thread combined with Jet Set Radio PC have me fittin to play Mario 64 in 1080p.

it's a wonderful world we live in

TheD said:
Some much subjective bull crap in this thread.

Nothing at all wrong with arguing over subjective stuff. It's enlightening all the same.
 
Anyway, it's been ages since I last played any N64 game, but didn't the D-pad have some sort of function in that Star Wars game which name escapes me, in conjunction with the stick? So you don't think ease of use had any say in how Nintendo and Microsoft have designed their controllers, it's all due to how much the PS1 sold?

i know for rogue squadron the d-pad was only used to adjust your view, meaning you didn't use it in conjunction with the stick since once you've settled on a view you like, no need to touch the d-pad again.

the ps1 controller owes basically everything to the snes controller btw.
 
You guys keep talking about RARE and Crash Bandicoot.

But I reiterate my point.

Shadowman 64.
World Driver Championship
Turok Rage Wars / Turok 3

Are the the best looking games on the N64. Blowing away any PSX competition. ExciteBike 64 is also very nice. Forsaken is also nice. Factor 5 and RARE games were too low framerate for my tastes.
 
Yeah Excitebike 64 looked quite good, and along with WDC and Battle for Naboo I don't think any emulators can really run it yet.
 
Technically N64 was superior but PS1 games where more deeper , had more ambient so the difference in graphics never was a push factor for the N64
 
they were basically the same

granturismo.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]charlieblast.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Reasonable comparison


[quote="Alebrije, post: 42406151"][B]Technically N64 was superior but PS1 games where more deeper[/B] ,[B] had more ambient [/B] so the difference in graphics never was a push factor for the N64[/QUOTE]

what
 
You guys keep talking about RARE and Crash Bandicoot.

But I reiterate my point.

Shadowman 64.
World Driver Championship
Turok Rage Wars / Turok 3

Are the the best looking games on the N64. Blowing away any PSX competition. ExciteBike 64 is also very nice. Forsaken is also nice. Factor 5 and RARE games were too low framerate for my tastes.

Shadowman is awesome on the N64 but the Zelda games look better IMO

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Never played WDC, T:RW or T3
 
Charlie Blast's Territory is definitely quite ugly, but actually doesn't look too bad, when you consider that it's only a 4 megabit game (half a megabyte)... it's the smallest N64 game released in the US in terms of cart size. It's also the only N64 game I know of which requires passwords for saving and doesn't support the Controller Pak; all other games either have on-cart saving, don't support saving at all, or support Controller Paks. But with only half a megabyte for the whole game, you can only do so much.

Also, the PS1 game (um, slightly different game with different characters and levels but the same concept and published by the same company, Kemco, that is) looks fairly similar (but clearly benefits some from the larger media size):

http://www.mobygames.com/images/sho...nds-playstation-screenshot-new-challenges.jpg

I misread your previous post, I thought you meant there were no games where you had to use both the stick and the D-pad at the same time. Anyway, it's been ages since I last played any N64 game, but didn't the D-pad have some sort of function in that Star Wars game which name escapes me, in conjunction with the stick? And I'm not bashing the system. The system is generally fine (although it doesn't have all that many games I personally care about), I just utterly despise that awful controller.
As has been mentioned, Rogue Squadron and Battle for Naboo do support the dpad, but just for moving the camera. Similarly, in the Zelda games the L button turns the map on and off. L and the d-pad are virtually never mapped to important functions in games, only to things you will almost never touch. Only a very few games which require lots of buttons even think of making you use them and the analog stick too, and those are so few that it's barely even worth mentioning. Nothing first party published does, certainly.

So you don't think ease of use had any say in how Nintendo and Microsoft have designed their controllers, it's all due to how much the PS1 sold?
Yeah, I do think that. I'm sure it's never the only reason, but I do think it's always involved as an important factor in the reasoning. Why did MS drop the six face button layout they had on the first XBox controller for that bizarre layout the S used, and then move them to the shoulders for the 360 controller, and to stick to just four face buttons? Maybe in part because they wanted more shoulder buttons, but also because that was Sony's design, surely. The Wii Classic Controller is even more blatant here; yes, it's half SNES controller, but the other half if a Sony controller. The CC Pro makes this even more obvious.

And as I said, I definitely think that the GC controller was in part an answer to the Playstation pads. Yes, one thing it did was simplify, with that big A button, but it also used that Playstation-like orientation, two shoulder buttons (if just on one side), only four face buttons, etc. They were clearly trying to attract people who were used to the Playstation controller with that one.

And as I said, even Sega... why did they drop two buttons from the DC pad versus the Saturn? I'm not sure why, but "have four face buttons just like Sony" is about the only explanation I can come up with. It was a bad decision certainly; seven buttons isn't enough for everything, and the Saturn's layout was just about perfect.

So, as a result, no gamepads from the past two generations quite match up to the N64 or Saturn 3D controllers for me. Though as I've said, the Wiimote is so different that it's hard to directly compare. As for Microsoft, the 360 controller's fine (for analog games), but my favorite MS gamepad is the original, large Xbox controller... I like the face button layout more, and I'm fine with the large size.
 
i know for rogue squadron the d-pad was only used to adjust your view, meaning you didn't use it in conjunction with the stick since once you've settled on a view you like, no need to touch the d-pad again.

the ps1 controller owes basically everything to the snes controller btw.

As has been mentioned, Rogue Squadron and Battle for Naboo do support the dpad, but just for moving the camera. Similarly, in the Zelda games the L button turns the map on and off. L and the d-pad are virtually never mapped to important functions in games, only to things you will almost never touch. Only a very few games which require lots of buttons even think of making you use them and the analog stick too, and those are so few that it's barely even worth mentioning. Nothing first party published does, certainly.

Never played Rogue Squadron, it was Shadows of the Empire I was thinking of (had to look up the name). And yeah, the original PS1 controller was basically just a souped-up SNES controller.

Yeah, I do think that. I'm sure it's never the only reason, but I do think it's always involved as an important factor in the reasoning. Why did MS drop the six face button layout they had on the first XBox controller for that bizarre layout the S used, and then move them to the shoulders for the 360 controller, and to stick to just four face buttons? Maybe in part because they wanted more shoulder buttons, but also because that was Sony's design, surely. The Wii Classic Controller is even more blatant here; yes, it's half SNES controller, but the other half if a Sony controller. The CC Pro makes this even more obvious.

And as I said, I definitely think that the GC controller was in part an answer to the Playstation pads. Yes, one thing it did was simplify, with that big A button, but it also used that Playstation-like orientation, two shoulder buttons (if just on one side), only four face buttons, etc. They were clearly trying to attract people who were used to the Playstation controller with that one.

And as I said, even Sega... why did they drop two buttons from the DC pad versus the Saturn? I'm not sure why, but "have four face buttons just like Sony" is about the only explanation I can come up with. It was a bad decision certainly; seven buttons isn't enough for everything, and the Saturn's layout was just about perfect.

So, as a result, no gamepads from the past two generations quite match up to the N64 or Saturn 3D controllers for me. Though as I've said, the Wiimote is so different that it's hard to directly compare. As for Microsoft, the 360 controller's fine (for analog games), but my favorite MS gamepad is the original, large Xbox controller... I like the face button layout more, and I'm fine with the large size.

Because it's a design that works regardless of whether you prefer symmetrical or asymmetrical placement of the sticks; grip the handles, use thumbs for sticks, d-pad and face buttons, and index finger + middle finger for shoulder buttons. No need to keep moving your hands around like on the N64 controller (in this day and age moving your hand around on a N64-like controller would be a necessity as the complexity of games often require using all available buttons). It's simple and effective.
 
For those questioning the N64s 2D abilities, I give you Wonder Project J2.

oAQN5.jpg
570.png
018.png

025.png
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Clearly the system could pull off good 2D visuals, developers just didn't want to.

That looks hot. Makes me wonder how NeoGeo and CPS2 ports would have looked on the system, given that most of those games were around 700 Megabit, with compression techniques they surely would have fit within an N64 cart, shame that the 512 Megabit carts were only produced late in the systems life due to cost.

EDIT:
Shadowman is awesome on the N64 but the Zelda games look better IMO

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Spoilers dude!
 
This thread is so amazing to read. PS1/N64 generation was truly something. Makes me feel so nostalgic.

Also those Banjo Kazooie/Conker gifs >>>>>> Love those games... Crash 3 is still good looking too.
 
Oh god, I'm currently on ebay trying to score a colored N64

DSCI1095.jpg


I dont need one, but look at theeeseee!!!!
Screw this thread

I'm gonna go plug in my PSone now
 
Turok 3: Shadow of Oblivion had some pretty advanced lip syncing and facial animation for an N64 game. Quite a step up from MGS1's bobbing heads.

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What the fuck? This was actually on the N64? Most games still have worse animation than that, pretty embarrasing really (halo series in particular i'm looking at you).
 
Oh, I almost forgot to mention Excitebike 64. Definitely up there with the other racers mentioned here, especially in the hi-res mode. Some great texture and lighting work in this game.
My name is Keikaku and this is my favorite post in this thread. Gravel Pit had that one awesome jump where you got super high and saw that "vista" in the distance. I still play it every once in a while. Just played some a couple of weeks ago actually :D

Frame rate issues aside, I always thought 1080 Snowboarding was one of the best racers visually of that generation.

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I tried playing that when I played Excitebike and it's kind of a mess, comparatively.
 
ITT I learned that the Dual Shock controller was a 'revolution' for adding things that were already released on Nintendo's controller (analogue and rumble), and with no mention that all PS1 gamers had to buy a whole new controller to gain these features, and that Sony was even sued for stealing the tech to add rumble.

I also learned that the N64 controller sucked because you couldn't use the dpad, L button and analogue at the same time, despite that being the entire design (6 button SNES controller in one configuration, 3D controller with the first real trigger and right hand camera controls on the c buttons in another).

On the Crash vs Banjo/Conker debate, no doubt the Crash games (well, 2 and 3) were technical genius for the PS1, but they're corridor platformers where the level design was built around the limitations, with things like corners blocking draw distance when lots was going on in a section. And even with that massive limitation still had nasty clipping, texture seam, and warping issues. Rare's platformers had massive sprawling levels with a free camera, rock solid geometry (though with some clipping when manually adjusting the camera), unparalleled texturing for the time, and yet still managed the same level of detail and animation as Crash's best? That says it all about the two system's capabilities really.

EDIT: All that said, I think I can handle PS1 pixelyness more than N64 blurriness these days.

IMO both companies had appalling character design, Crash is such a lame, tasteless Sonic ripoff, and Rare's characters were lame too.
 
My name is Keikaku and this is my favorite post in this thread. Gravel Pit had that one awesome jump where you got super high and saw that "vista" in the distance. I still play it every once in a while. Just played some a couple of weeks ago actually :D


I tried playing that when I played Excitebike and it's kind of a mess, comparatively.

Really, a mess is what I think of EB with its wildly inconsistent framerate and wonky controls. 1080° is definitely the superior game for me.
 
Oh god, I'm currently on ebay trying to score a colored N64

DSCI1095.jpg


I dont need one, but look at theeeseee!!!!
Screw this thread

I'm gonna go plug in my PSone now


whenever i go to thrift stores, yard sales or flea markets i always want to find a colored N64, they look awesome

I never see them :(
 
What the fuck? This was actually on the N64? Most games still have worse animation than that, pretty embarrasing really (halo series in particular i'm looking at you).

If I recall though, didn't Turok require the additional RAM addition? Is if a fair comparison to judge any game as being better than another base console if add-ons are used?

That's equivalent of saying fighting games are better on the Sega Saturn if you use a fight stick versus a regular game pad on a PSX.
 
If I recall though, didn't Turok require the additional RAM addition? Is if a fair comparison to judge any game as being better than another base console if add-ons are used?

That's equivalent of saying fighting games are better on the Sega Saturn if you use a fight stick versus a regular game pad on a PSX.

It was only needed for hi-res mode.
Only Majora's Mask and DK64 required the Pak. Perfect Dark also needed it for multiplayer and enabling some other features.
 
I know Tekken 3 was the most impressive looking fighter in that generation. Heck probably even one of the most impressive looking games that generation.
 
ah went off tpic about the N64 colors :P


N64 looked better yes but some PS1 games still look great, already mentioned but the Crash games looked amazing and still hold up


but lol don't play Syphon Filter , good god when i downloaded that earlier this year
 
It was only needed for hi-res mode.
Only Majora's Mask and DK64 required the Pak. Perfect Dark also needed it for multiplayer and enabling some other features.

Hmm hmm... didn't Turok 3 have a draw distance of about 10 feet without the RAM pak? Also I'm almost certain PD required it for single player campaign and MP with 3 or more players... but your point is taken.
 
Hmm hmm... didn't Turok 3 have a draw distance of about 10 feet without the RAM pak? Also I'm almost certain PD required it for single player campaign and MP with 3 or more players... but your point is taken.

No, I don't think there are any N64 games where the RAM pack affects draw distance.
 
I know Tekken 3 was the most impressive looking fighter in that generation. Heck probably even one of the most impressive looking games that generation.
Absolutely, but who knows what VF3 would have looked like on the Saturn, as VF2 looked almost as good as Tekken 3 years earlier, and a world better than Tekken 2.
 
I know Tekken 3 was the most impressive looking fighter in that generation. Heck probably even one of the most impressive looking games that generation.

Tobal 2 one ups Tekken 3 easily with its higher resolution, gourad shaded characters and way more impressive animation, while also maintaining 60fps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TzqbiIZDqQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=179s

Easily the best animated game in that entire generation. Even had cloth and hair physics, as seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-8ykxV-qN4
 
Really, a mess is what I think of EB with its wildly inconsistent framerate and wonky controls. 1080° is definitely the superior game for me.
You have a Lawrence of Arabia avatar yet, with this post, you have made an enemy of me. You are dead to me. Begone forthwith, rapscallion!
 
Interesting little tidbit; I dont think Nintendo originally planned to release the n64 clocked at around 90mhz. You see, the N64 by default is overclocked 1.5x bringing it to around 90mhz. One day, while I was overclocking 2x (around 120mhz) I clocked back down to around 60mhz. I didn't notice at first because the first game I was testing was Mario 64. While Mario 64 would not have benefitted from an overclock, you'd think that bringing the speed down would affect it. Nope, not a bit. The game played like normal at 60mhz. Other games, like Wipeout 64 played noticeably slower. I didn't test with PilotWings 64 but I don't think it would have made a difference.
 
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