Some would say this response would be a little strong. Those people never basked in the glory of Excitebike.
EB64 sucks.
How much more powerful was the N64 compared to the PlayStation anyway?
- Thread starter Snakeyes
- Start date
EB64 sucks.
T3's characters are blockier and because they're textured the regular way they have the usual jittery ps1 look in motion. And feature no shading of any kind. The almost exclusive use of gourad shading and colored polygons in Tobal 2 made it avoid "that PS1 look", making character models look immeasurably more pleasing to the eye. And so to me they have aged a heck of a lot better. Animation is just crazy talk, the Tekken series continue to suffer from inconsistent animation. Tobal 2 still looks fantastic in motion today, the transitions still hold up, and the 360° walking animation is STILL one of the best in the genre.
I will defend Tobal 2 to teeth and nail, "worse" than I did R4.
In an alternate universe where you had better taste, were raised to worship the rightful Gods of Gaming and weren't such a scrub, we may have been friends. Through your worship of the false idol of the PS1, you have only hastened your fall from grace.
EB64 sucks.
In summary:
In all seriousness though, the framerate in EB64 was a bit dodgy but I never found that it made the game unplayable. My main issue with 1080 was the music, and the oddness of the learning curve (to me at least). It just didn't feel like it had as good a sensation of mastery of control as EB. That and EB beat the living daylights out of it when it came to course variety. EB64 also had the original EB on it as well as the awesome multiplayer soccer mode which was a blast!
This whole thread is like a friendlier version of this:
That said, N64 rulez, PS droolz!
EDIT: I should qualify that I had both systems so I am the most completely impartial judge.
This thread reminds me how awesome system wars used to be in the 16 and 32-64 bit eras, because there was never a real clear winner and competing platforms had strengths of their own and thus games, exclusives and multiplatform, looked quite different between systems. From PS2 era to current gen, differences between consoles have been increasingly becoming minimal and harder to tell to the casual eye, and if it wasn´t for pixel counters most people wouldn´t really be able to tell versions apart.
Had? I still own both systems. Keikaku disqualified. Go home and be a family man!
My PS1 broke-the weight of my justified expectations was too much for it. I still play the games on my PS2 though, poor examples of gaming from that era though they are.
papersleeves
Member
While I like the N64 controller for what it is and felt compelled by it compared to the original controller of the PS1 due to the analog stick, I always thought the Dual Shock revision surpassed it in every way. The stick on the N64 controller wasn't precise enough, which I always felt like it restrained my capability at aiming with good accuracy in games like Jet Force Gemini, Turok, Golden Eye or Perfect Dark. The Diagonals are stiff. You have to over-exaggerate your movement for it to register as a diagonal movement, otherwise you will end up moving horizontally or vertically. Even when slightly moving the stick up or down, I have to correct and compensate every time because the movement ends up being not enough or too much. This was the exact same thing on every single original N64 controller I've bought and me and the people I've played with back in the days thought the exact same thing about this. I liked the stick but surely it was something that could easily be upgraded and Sony did just that with the DS. Much more precise stick and clearly more robust too.
I never really had that problem with platformers though.
I also am a fan of the 6 buttons layout for fighting games. Excluding the genre though, bumper buttons are just as good to me. Can't remember of any game on the system where I thought that 6 buttons combination was an advantage over the DS.
The D-Pad really is stiff but after hours of Killer Instinct Gold and MKT it got much more loose, which ended up as a better experience. I like the D-Pad on my N64 controllers. But I worked for it.
Other thing I didn't like was that many games had functions bind to L or the D-pad. I'm not talking about dramatic functions that you constantly use every other second, but for example in Turok 2 in order to zoom-in with the tek bow you have to press right on the D-pad. This is quite annoying to switch your left hand from the middle to the left side every time you need to access those functions. There are more examples I can give if needed. I've played around 10 N64 games tonight and I remember accessing the left side many times, which reduced my response time and felt handicapped as a result. Of course, this is not the case for most N64 games as they've been made with this restriction in mind. But this exactly what I would call it. A restriction. Which reduce the number of buttons you can quickly press at any time.
I believe the industry adopted the Dual Shock design simply because it is more ergonomic, versatile and productive. You can access every button on the controller with both hands planted on both sides. It is also much better at handling the button layout caprice of everyone due to accessibility. I feel very comfortable holding a N64 controller, but I can say the same thing for any controller similar to a DS design.
I understand the love the N64 controller receives by some and I admit it had a certain appeal, but to me the DS design is simply superior and history backs this opinion.
I never really had that problem with platformers though.
I also am a fan of the 6 buttons layout for fighting games. Excluding the genre though, bumper buttons are just as good to me. Can't remember of any game on the system where I thought that 6 buttons combination was an advantage over the DS.
The D-Pad really is stiff but after hours of Killer Instinct Gold and MKT it got much more loose, which ended up as a better experience. I like the D-Pad on my N64 controllers. But I worked for it.
Other thing I didn't like was that many games had functions bind to L or the D-pad. I'm not talking about dramatic functions that you constantly use every other second, but for example in Turok 2 in order to zoom-in with the tek bow you have to press right on the D-pad. This is quite annoying to switch your left hand from the middle to the left side every time you need to access those functions. There are more examples I can give if needed. I've played around 10 N64 games tonight and I remember accessing the left side many times, which reduced my response time and felt handicapped as a result. Of course, this is not the case for most N64 games as they've been made with this restriction in mind. But this exactly what I would call it. A restriction. Which reduce the number of buttons you can quickly press at any time.
I believe the industry adopted the Dual Shock design simply because it is more ergonomic, versatile and productive. You can access every button on the controller with both hands planted on both sides. It is also much better at handling the button layout caprice of everyone due to accessibility. I feel very comfortable holding a N64 controller, but I can say the same thing for any controller similar to a DS design.
I understand the love the N64 controller receives by some and I admit it had a certain appeal, but to me the DS design is simply superior and history backs this opinion.
ViperVisor
Member
I made this from the gamecube disc version
The texture work in OoT, and MM, is actually really impressive considering the limitations of the system. I think both Zelda games are definitely examples of worlds that wouldn't be possible on the PS1, and they took full advantage of the strengths of the N64, while somehow avoiding typical issues like stretched low-res textures. Still had the bad framerates, of course.
papersleeves
Member
I made this from the gamecube disc version
I just love the N64. Beautiful graphics for its time.
MM definitely has framerate issues. OoT at least is constant thorough.
I have to agree with all of this. I can't say anything against OoT. The framerate is not too bad, being always locked and constant helped mitigate it some.
Yeah, I think I actually noticed the low framerate more in cutscenes than in gameplay.
OoT also had beautiful fire animation for the time, as one of those .gifs shows.
AdventureRacing
Member
That really is an example of how good nintendo are at producing pretty games. I know they don't make cutting edge tech anymore but they really know how to get the most out of hardware and sometimes don't get enough credit for that.
Gonna have to disagree here, i think tekken 3 definitely looks better. Also reading this thread got me to go back and play T3 and TTT and goddamn they both hold up so well. Still my favourite entries in the franchise ;;.
Even if that is the case it doesn't explain why so many developers even this gen struggle to get face and mouth movements that look that good.
T3's characters are blockier and because they're textured the regular way they have the usual jittery ps1 look in motion. And feature no shading of any kind. The almost exclusive use of gourad shading and colored polygons in Tobal 2 made it avoid "that PS1 look", making character models look immeasurably more pleasing to the eye. And so to me they have aged a heck of a lot better. Animation is just crazy talk, the Tekken series continue to suffer from inconsistent animation. Tobal 2 still looks fantastic in motion today, the transitions still hold up, and the 360° walking animation is STILL one of the best in the genre.
I will defend Tobal 2 to teeth and nail, "worse" than I did R4.
Gonna have to disagree here, i think tekken 3 definitely looks better. Also reading this thread got me to go back and play T3 and TTT and goddamn they both hold up so well. Still my favourite entries in the franchise ;;.
Even if that is the case it doesn't explain why so many developers even this gen struggle to get face and mouth movements that look that good.
This thread made me check out what the state of N64 in MESS was, and you know what? It's kinda getting there. I haven't bothered to see if any developers are currently focusing on it or anything, but it's nice to know that low-level N64 emulation is happening somewhere.
Mario 64 framebuffer grabs, nothing too obviously different and there doesn't seem to be that edge detecting AA that I'm hearing about, but you can see some dithering going on.
And some quick HLSL action (I love this filter):
Still pretty slow, though. 60-80% speed on average on my 2600k, not surprising given that it's low level MESS.
Mario 64 framebuffer grabs, nothing too obviously different and there doesn't seem to be that edge detecting AA that I'm hearing about, but you can see some dithering going on.
And some quick HLSL action (I love this filter):
Still pretty slow, though. 60-80% speed on average on my 2600k, not surprising given that it's low level MESS.
That's pretty interesting stuff.
N64 games still have jaggies, just during its release the IQ was great in comparison to other hardware of the time. You can see them all over the place in this video. It is using some sort of edge blur...thing...I really have no clue what sort of AA it implements, it may be a full screen blur kind of thing. It's almost impossible to have a N64 game look "crisp" or sharp...I really don't know, it's a mystery.
N64 games still have jaggies, just during its release the IQ was great in comparison to other hardware of the time. You can see them all over the place in this video. It is using some sort of edge blur...thing...I really have no clue what sort of AA it implements, it may be a full screen blur kind of thing. It's almost impossible to have a N64 game look "crisp" or sharp...I really don't know, it's a mystery.
Phonomezer
Banned
I have to say, I'm not a big fan of how N64 games looked. They all seemed to look similar; everything was big, chunky and blurry.
Still, MK64 > PS1.
Still, MK64 > PS1.
Vorg
Banned
Crash Team Racing, dude.
Phonomezer
Banned
Fuck. I forgot about that one, I bought the CTR game released on the Xbox so I could play it on my 360... wasn't the same ;_;
DICKS AHOY
Banned
How do Super Mario 64's visuals count as an art style?
what
DonMigs85
Member
That's pretty interesting stuff.
N64 games still have jaggies, just during its release the IQ was great in comparison to other hardware of the time. You can see them all over the place in this video. It is using some sort of edge blur...thing...I really have no clue what sort of AA it implements, it may be a full screen blur kind of thing. It's almost impossible to have a N64 game look "crisp" or sharp...I really don't know, it's a mystery.
N64 used Xiaolin Wu's line algorithm for AA.
The problem was that applying AA to the already low 320x240 res made it look blurry. Games that supported hi-res mode could be crisp. Just look at Rogue Squadron, Battle for Naboo, Episode 1 Racer, and the menus in Pokemon Stadium 1/2.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Going off the past few pages of people pointing to SM64 as having a superior art style to whatever, I'm not really seeing how sweeping planes of mostly the same solid-color of green or sphere's with eyes pasted on is anything more than EAD focusing far more on gameplay and getting a proper 3D-platforming foundation down than having a memorable aesthetic.
I mean this thread's already swamped in nolstagia, but outside of something like Bubsy 3D I really don't see how you can say most of the platformers people are arguing about here are worse looking than SM64. It's by no means bad, just that it's merely functional and not artistically memorable, which is completely understandable from the period it came from.
EDIT: For the record as someone who grew up playing all of these religiously, I think Banjo and Crash are both great at what they achieve to do with their visuals (one at having a big cohesive world to explore, the other on-rail experiences which suits the PS1 better), DK64 was completely phoned-in in almost every respect, Spyro looks kinda crappy in retrospect and Conker's Bad Fur Day is amazing and looks like Rare's interpretation of Robert Crumb.
I'm having massive ghosting issues with my N64 on my Bravia HDTV.
Its the TV right? My system isnt going tits up, right?
My N64 is the only console that looks like crap on my father's W4000 Bravia. NES and SNES look decent enough, but it seems to have issues with N64 because it also ghosts pretty badly for me on that TV. I have a PAL N64 though, which are notorious for their bad IQ, hooked up with a regular composite cable because on PAL units S-video looks worse than composite. Yeah you read that right!
That's one thing I really hate about the N64. The PAL unit has waaaay worse image quality compared to the NTSC units. I have no idea why but it's just gimped. Much blurrier overall if you can believe that. What's weird is that if you have a 64drive flashcart or something similar and you load an NTSC game and set the 64drive to NTSC mode (so it runs the N64 at 60hz) on a PAL unit, much of the extra blurryness disappears and it looks almost as good as most screenshots here. It actually looks decent when run like that. It's not actual NTSC though, I think it's just PAL in 60hz. And S-video still looks worse than composite in that mode.
Well, in hi-res the games didn't use AA. Whatever method it used, it only applied to polygon edges because alpha textures were still incredibly jaggy.
I made this from the gamecube disc version
You should be spending your time looking for the biggest Bomb Bag and Bullet Bag and the few Heart Pieces you don't have instead of making gifs
Alebrije
Member
As most of all the people that owned both systems.
The problem with N64 library is that most of their top games where 3d plataformers, besides no matter how powerfull it was compared to PS1 people in general never noticed that difference or didnt care.
For me N64 best games :
Zeldas , MARIO KART, Perfect Dark, 007 , Turok 1.
There where also lame games as Quest 64.
evilromero
Member
I'm still disappointed we never got Metroid 64. I'm still holding out hope.
They are from an emulator running with really high IQ just like Banjo gifs earlier.
Why would anyone want this today? It would probably run like crap. We should be glad Retro delivered three silky-smooth 60fps Metroid games.
ss_lemonade
Member
Back then, OOT had some of the best looking waterfalls I've seen in a game. Even being underwater looked and sounded amazing especially when there was a thunderstorm going on.I made this from the gamecube disc version
How can you possibly know this? Why cant you keep these comments on a personal level instead of broad statements you cant prove?
I owned both (still do) and I look back more fondly at my time spent with the N64
Garcia
Member
I really don't want to derail the conversation since we're comparing the PS1 against N64, but Shadowman for N64 is absolute crap if you compare it to its native PC version. I'm not being a troll; I just wanted to state it because there's some people who have only played the N64 version and are absolutely missing out one of the best Action/Adventure experiences out there for PC.
How in the world. The game had like two warped textures wrapped around an entire environment all with a two foot draw distance. Maybe it was impressive for being a full 3D game on PSX with an actual free camera. But I think it was very drab and ugly. It was also a horribly boring representation of Nosgoth in 3D compared to all the imaginations in Blood Omen
Art direction is subjective. But the draw distance and texture work was definitely a paradigm for the N64/PSX era.
ResidentDante
Member
Raise you hands those who drove off-course in Mario Kart 64 and explored the castle grounds from Mario 64!
It's a technical masterwork because it had a full streaming world with an alternate dimension to go in and out at will with zero loading times.
JonathanPower
Member
This is why I think it was a revolutionary change, because such design was much ahead of its time. The introduction of the second analog stick was essential to play fps games, but this became apparent only when HALO opened the way to FPS on consoles. All current controllers own to the design of the Dual shock.
This part was very well programmed actually.
It's all about Spyro, bros.
In my opinion, that game always looked a generation above thanks to its amazing art. You don't even notice the textures and models are PS1/N64/Saturn-gen thanks to its superb use of colour.
Run it through an emulator and you might be briefly fooled into thinking it's a launch-era PS2 game.
Somehow the sequels, while still being much fun, manage to look not as good these days. They upped the visual complexity which impressed back then but these days puts the fact it's running on a PS1 into the forefront.
In my opinion, that game always looked a generation above thanks to its amazing art. You don't even notice the textures and models are PS1/N64/Saturn-gen thanks to its superb use of colour.
Run it through an emulator and you might be briefly fooled into thinking it's a launch-era PS2 game.
Somehow the sequels, while still being much fun, manage to look not as good these days. They upped the visual complexity which impressed back then but these days puts the fact it's running on a PS1 into the forefront.
DidntKnowJack
Member
I just have to say, my biggest disappointment with the Wii was that there were only 21 N64 games released on virtual console. I hope they pick up where they left off when Wii U comes around.
I'd say it was Ridge Racer HD demo bundled together with Ridge Racer 4.
It was such a great demo of both performance and style.