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How to Invest for Retirement

Piecake

Member
I'm trying to "tighten my belt" on unnecessary spending as much as I can this year and I was wondering if something like Acorns is worth using. I have had some growth on what I have put in but I'm not certain it is worth the time to do this spare change things. It isn't a large sum of money but I have to think it would be better served elsewhere like my savings account or invested.

Could I get your thoughts on this? I'm very unsure of this app at this point.

Personally, I wouldn't do it

It doesn't seem like all that much and I wouldn't want multiple investing accounts going at once because I don't want the hassle.

If you want to force yourself to invest and safe money, you could sign up at an online brokerage and use their automatic investing service. I'd check the fees first though

Just put the date of that automatic investment right after your paycheck to trick yourself and force you to spend less.
 

Soroc

Member
You are taxed on your capital gains

So, if you invest 40k and turn that into 45k, you will be taxed on that 5k.

The rate that you will be taxed depends on your income and how long it has been invested.

Short-term gains (held for a year or less) are taxed like regular income. Long-term gains are taxed from 0-20% depending on your income bracket.

capital gains do count towards your AGI and can can push you into a higher bracket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States#Current_.282016.29_law

Most of the return on a bond fund comes as a dividend. If you are used to how taxes on interest in a savings account works, dividends are basically the same as that. You will get a 1099-DIV form each year instead of the 1099-INT. Like interest, a dividend is taxed in the year when it is earned. It is not based on when you withdraw the money.

You may have to pay some capital gains tax when you sell, but it probably won't be very large, because bond funds tend not to return much of a capital gain over short time periods.

Thanks to each of you for the responses. I appreciate the clarity.
 
OK, I looked up Vanguard Total Bond Market, and the drop from peak to trough in 2008 was 7%. That is assuming you bought at the worst possible time and sold at the worst possible time, and it ignores the dividend yield you would have earned in the interim. And furthermore, you could probably end up getting that 7% back eventually via tax loss harvesting.
While agreeing with your other points, what would be a good reason for someone (younger) to have a total bond index fund in a taxable account? Given that "most of the return on a bond fund comes as a dividend," wouldn't that be tax inefficient?

Edit: ah, missed the response already posted above. Disregard.
 

vypek

Member
Personally, I wouldn't do it

It doesn't seem like all that much and I wouldn't want multiple investing accounts going at once because I don't want the hassle.

If you want to force yourself to invest and safe money, you could sign up at an online brokerage and use their automatic investing service. I'd check the fees first though

Just put the date of that automatic investment right after your paycheck to trick yourself and force you to spend less.

Thanks. I appreciate the input :)
 
I've got enough in my emergency fund that I could stretch to about 4-5 months. However, I'm self employed, so I'll never really lose my "job," as it were. If work slows down, I have other ways to make money online, so I can usually always AT LEAST hit my minimum income goal. I can ratchet down my lifestyle to under $1000 a month in expenses, too, as I'm living in Thailand now and can basically pack up and leave whenever I want in an emergency. Though I would lose my security deposit on the condo I'm renting, so I'd rather not.

So I feel like what I've got is fine. I also have something like $40,000 in available credit on credit cards, so there's that. No plans to ever use them or go into cc debt again, though. In a pinch, they'll do.

I'm also working on some niche Amazon affiliate websites that will hopefully start bringing in some regular income over the next year. If I can have a fleet of those that pays me a few thousand a month, I'll be golden.
 

Pixels

Member
Any thoughts on municipal bonds fund for money sitting in a bank account doing nothing? VWLTX seems to have very very little volatility.
 

johnny956

Member
We're comparing cash and bonds, right? You have the exact same tax rates on the interest generated in a cash account as you do on bond dividends, so that's not really a disadvantage, right?

You are correct. Yea comparing it to a savings account the rates are going to be the same. I'll admit you are definitely making me consider putting a good amount of my emergency fund in bonds now lol
 
Had a question about IRAs:

I had an SEP with Vanguard but I recently became hired full-time and can no longer contribute to the SEP. Long story short, I have to move all the money out of the SEP by April 18th.

Where should I move it? Roth IRA? Traditional? Would like to stick with Vanguard. Thanks!
 
Had a question about IRAs:

I had an SEP with Vanguard but I recently became hired full-time and can no longer contribute to the SEP. Long story short, I have to move all the money out of the SEP by April 18th.

Where should I move it? Roth IRA? Traditional? Would like to stick with Vanguard. Thanks!

My understanding is that a SEP-IRA is all pre-tax dollars, so the straight forward path is to go to a traditional IRA and keep deferring the taxes. If you go to a Roth, you would be responsible for paying taxes on the full value at your highest applicable marginal rate. If this rate is low, then you might choose to do just that.
 
I have funds at Scottrade, a small investment account and my rIRA. I set these up years ago as my dad invested there. I've been thinking for a while to get everything to Vanguard as that's where I have a majority of my money.

With Scottrade becoming TD I figure I could do it now?

I believe the rIRA should be easy to switch. I own 2 funds in it, a Vanguard fund and SPY. From Vanguard's website I can transfer over SPY, I just can't buy anymore of it. That doesn't bother me.

I have a regular investment account as well with only like $6k. Can something like this be transferred without selling?
 
Thanks. Was curious due to the increasing likely hood of electric cars/battery storage systems in the future. Subbed that thread so that i can peruse during breaks.

The problem is, anything you know, the market already knows. That means you're basically gambling - your insight here is already imbued in the market.
 
While agreeing with your other points, what would be a good reason for someone (younger) to have a total bond index fund in a taxable account? Given that "most of the return on a bond fund comes as a dividend," wouldn't that be tax inefficient?

Edit: ah, missed the response already posted above. Disregard.

As a further response, bond yields are really low right now. I have been converted myself to the concept that tax-sheltered space is more effectively used for 100% equities (if that's your style) since they theoretically have much higher returns than bonds and it's more efficient to protect that growth than make small bond returns more tax efficient.

There's also some tax efficient bond funds available now which can reduce the tax damage.

We're comparing cash and bonds, right? You have the exact same tax rates on the interest generated in a cash account as you do on bond dividends, so that's not really a disadvantage, right?

As a follow on, what do you do yourself for your bond emergency fund? Just a standard total bond market or something more tax efficient? Also, what do you do with the interest? I'm guessing DRIP is available for your fund?
 

tokkun

Member
As a further response, bond yields are really low right now. I have been converted myself to the concept that tax-sheltered space is more effectively used for 100% equities (if that's your style) since they theoretically have much higher returns than bonds and it's more efficient to protect that growth than make small bond returns more tax efficient.

There's also some tax efficient bond funds available now which can reduce the tax damage.



As a follow on, what do you do yourself for your bond emergency fund? Just a standard total bond market or something more tax efficient? Also, what do you do with the interest? I'm guessing DRIP is available for your fund?

I don't have an emergency fund at all, and keep my non-tax-sheltered savings pretty much 100% in stocks. In the event of an emergency, I would access funds in the priority I mentioned in this post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233288813&postcount=6272

The no emergency fund / all stock approach is not something I would advocate for everyone. In my case, I already had about 5 years worth of living expenses in after-tax stocks, so holding a couple months worth of bonds didn't seem necessary.

When I was younger and had less savings, I kept an emergency fund in the Vanguard Intermediate-term Corporate Bond Index. However back then my income was only like ~$25K, so tax efficiency was not a prime concern.
 

thefil

Member
Finally bit the bullet and opened an investment account with TD Ameritrade so we can purchase some Vanguard S&P 500 ETFs.

I did the research almost a year ago that I could transfer these holdings to Canada when we move back without a tax penalty, but I just had this overwhelming dread that I would forget to dot my Ts or cross my Is somewhere.

Any recommendations on what else to purchase to diversify a little? We're looking at pretty rapidly transferring between >>$10k of savings into investments.

Now before you say open an IRA, I am a little hesitant about paying the penalty for early vesting of that when I move back to Canada and have the close the account. I should really find someone who specializes in Canada-US tax law to consult... We are maximizing our 401ks which I have verified with both companies we can keep open upon leaving the US.
 

BumRush

Member

In that case, muni bonds are fine, but how old are you, what is the account for and when do you think you'll need the money? I have 10% of my taxable account in MUB, but even that sometimes feels unnecessary since I'm 33 and don't plan on using that money until retirement.
 
This is a fantastic thread. I've been reading it on and several times and while feeling overwhelmed with the terminology at times and what is what, I got a better feeling than before coming in.

I've maxed my employee match and managed to saved about 6 months expenses in a 1% interest growth online savings account in case of emergency if I lose my job or something. It took years to save that much as I make less than 40k a year, so I hope I never have to dive into it, but it's there.

With that cushion I feel a bit better, and have some extra money to try to open an IRA.

At this point I should be opening a Roth IRA account then versus a traditional?

Looking it up I can open one up with Vanguard and with my age bracket in my 30s looking at a Target Retirement 2045 fund. Is that right?
 
I transferred my Roth IRA and my regular investment account from Raymond James to Vanguard a few years ago with no problems at all. I don't remember how I did it, but it was through the Vanguard website/calling Vanguard's help number I believe. It all transferred very easily. I didn't have to sell any of my investments.

Thanks, I figured, I thought I'd ask. I have some time off in a couple of weeks when I'll plan on doing it.
 
This is a fantastic thread. I've been reading it on and several times and while feeling overwhelmed with the terminology at times and what is what, I got a better feeling than before coming in.

I've maxed my employee match and managed to saved about 6 months expenses in a 1% interest growth online savings account in case of emergency if I lose my job or something. It took years to save that much as I make less than 40k a year, so I hope I never have to dive into it, but it's there.

With that cushion I feel a bit better, and have some extra money to try to open an IRA.

At this point I should be opening a Roth IRA account then versus a traditional?

Looking it up I can open one up with Vanguard and with my age bracket in my 30s looking at a Target Retirement 2045 fund. Is that right?
At less than 40K income I would recommend Roth IRA. You are in a lower tax bracket, so take advantage of that now. I like VTIVX. 90% stocks as of right now. But that's my risk tolerance. Make sure the portfolio matches your risk tolerance. Don't just look at the year.
 
At less than 40K income I would recommend Roth IRA. You are in a lower tax bracket, so take advantage of that now. I like VTIVX. 90% stocks as of right now. But that's my risk tolerance. Make sure the portfolio matches your risk tolerance. Don't just look at the year.

Thank you. As I've been trying really hard to save, I'm not that risk tolerant so I'll keep looking.
 
I just opened a Traditional IRA with Vanguard? Now what? How do I pick the fund I want? What are the recommended funds?

For a total hands off approach, use one of their target date funds that's closest to your anticipated retirement year (increments of 5). Find more on those here: https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/target-retirement/#/?WT.srch=1&cmpgn=PS:RE

If you want to take a slightly more active role, then let us know. This would mean that you might want to favor bonds more or less than a target, or domestic stock more or less, or international more or less, possibly small/mid caps more or less. If you don't have a good handle on what you would want to do or why, then I would say default to the target, always knowing that you could alter your strategy in the future.
 

Sky Chief

Member
For a total hands off approach, use one of their target date funds that's closest to your anticipated retirement year (increments of 5). Find more on those here: https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/target-retirement/#/?WT.srch=1&cmpgn=PS:RE

If you want to take a slightly more active role, then let us know. This would mean that you might want to favor bonds more or less than a target, or domestic stock more or less, or international more or less, possibly small/mid caps more or less. If you don't have a good handle on what you would want to do or why, then I would say default to the target, always knowing that you could alter your strategy in the future.

Thanks, I'll just stick to the target date funds for now
 

NewFresh

Member
First, thanks to everyone in this thread I have been matching my 401k and opened a Roth IRA that I have maxed out.

So Two questions:

1- If I wanted to move around funds in my Roth IRA to another fund, would there be any tax penalty?

2- I'm starting down the path of opening an investment account since I still have a decent amount of money sitting in savings (~50k). Would this just be a general investing account with Vanguard? How much do I need to open an account?

Thanks!
 

tokkun

Member
First, thanks to everyone in this thread I have been matching my 401k and opened a Roth IRA that I have maxed out.

So Two questions:

1- If I wanted to move around funds in my Roth IRA to another fund, would there be any tax penalty?

No.

2- I'm starting down the path of opening an investment account since I still have a decent amount of money sitting in savings (~50k). Would this just be a general investing account with Vanguard?

Yes.

How much do I need to open an account?

You can open the account with any amount of money, but presumably you want the minimum amount to buy stocks. If you are buying an ETF or individual stock, it's whatever the cost of one share is. Usually it's not very high. If you want to buy into a mutual fund, they often have a higher minimum amount. A few Vanguard funds have $3K minimums, and you get lower fees if you have $10K or more.
 

BumRush

Member
First, thanks to everyone in this thread I have been matching my 401k and opened a Roth IRA that I have maxed out.

So Two questions:

1- If I wanted to move around funds in my Roth IRA to another fund, would there be any tax penalty?

2- I'm starting down the path of opening an investment account since I still have a decent amount of money sitting in savings (~50k). Would this just be a general investing account with Vanguard? How much do I need to open an account?

Thanks!

1. There should be no tax implications to trading funds within your R-IRA (i.e. you will not pay capital gains tax)

2. I opened my account through Options House - since I wanted the possibility of trading more than just Vanguard funds. Trades are $4.95 and there is no minimum to sign up. If you only want Vanguard funds (which is honestly completely reasonable), do that instead.
 
Off topic, but tangentially related. I need to get my debt under control and I do not grasp YNAB. Can anyone recommend any good budgeting resources? Or do I just need to try harder at YNAB? I just don't get the steps - give money a job, set goals...this is where I falter. Do I set goals for every single freakin' bill? It becomes a lot of data entry and I get lost in the weeds.
 

BumRush

Member
Off topic, but tangentially related. I need to get my debt under control and I do not grasp YNAB. Can anyone recommend any good budgeting resources? Or do I just need to try harder at YNAB? I just don't get the steps - give money a job, set goals...this is where I falter. Do I set goals for every single freakin' bill? It becomes a lot of data entry and I get lost in the weeds.

Have you tried building an excel spreadsheet first? The act of creating it works for many.
 

Husker86

Member
Off topic, but tangentially related. I need to get my debt under control and I do not grasp YNAB. Can anyone recommend any good budgeting resources? Or do I just need to try harder at YNAB? I just don't get the steps - give money a job, set goals...this is where I falter. Do I set goals for every single freakin' bill? It becomes a lot of data entry and I get lost in the weeds.

Goals only make sense (to me) for things that are required more than one month down the road.

So, for instance, I have a goal for Car insurance, car registration, home insurance, home taxes--these are all things that aren't paid monthly for me. In some cases yearly. So, with a goal, I'm reminded how much I need to budget per month to have enough in that category when the time comes to pay.

Other than that, try to budget out all of your free cash (going into future months if you have the cash). If one category gets overspent, cover it with another category's free cash. That's about it.

I'm a big fan of YNAB. I recently went back to it because I found Mint's budgets to be inflexible and difficult to manage. Mint is very hands off, so if you want to do something that works for you, it's sometimes difficult.

If you stumble upon any other resource, I'd love to hear it. I've tried many, but none have allowed me to manage budget categories like YNAB.
 

NewFresh

Member
No.
Yes.
You can open the account with any amount of money, but presumably you want the minimum amount to buy stocks. If you are buying an ETF or individual stock, it's whatever the cost of one share is. Usually it's not very high. If you want to buy into a mutual fund, they often have a higher minimum amount. A few Vanguard funds have $3K minimums, and you get lower fees if you have $10K or more.

1. There should be no tax implications to trading funds within your R-IRA (i.e. you will not pay capital gains tax)

2. I opened my account through Options House - since I wanted the possibility of trading more than just Vanguard funds. Trades are $4.95 and there is no minimum to sign up. If you only want Vanguard funds (which is honestly completely reasonable), do that instead.

To elaborate on this, here's an example:

VTSMX and VTSAX are both "total stock market" index funds, exposing you to small-, mid-, and large-cap equities across the entire US equity market. However, the minimum initial investment in VTSMX is $3,000, whereas it's $10,000 with VTSAX. The expense ratio (the % of money invested in the mutual fund that is spent for administrative fees each year) of VTSMX is 0.16% while VTSAX is 0.05%; VTSMX has roughly a 3 times larger expense ratio than VTSAX. Performance/return-wise, they're more or less identical, excluding the difference in the expense ratios.

However, if you don't want to invest $10,000 into the fund but want the lower expense ratio, the very acceptable and comparable third option is to invest in the equivalent ETF, named VTI, which performs nearly identically to VTSMX or VTSAX, but has the 0.05% expense ratio of VTSAX while having a minimum equivalent to whatever one share costs, which as of April 11th 2017 is $121.01 (far lower than the $3,000 or $10,000 minimums of the equivalent mutual funds).

Thanks everyone, appreciate the clarification. VTI and VOO are actually where I was looking of putting a sizable portion into.
 

sojour

Member
Looking for some advice on what I should do:

I've recently been employed after my Uni degree with a yearly income of only ~32k pre-tax. Employer doesn't do 401k matching, at least I think. I'm actually not sure I will be with this employer for too long due to the extremely low income. I have only about 10k in savings; I live relatively frugally, so I will definitely be able to save 1/3 to 1/2 of my monthly paycheck.

Should I invest? Should I open a Roth IRA? Should I not do neither because I have so little income and I'm not sure what will happen in the future (change of employer, even moving out of the USA)? Thanks for your help!
 

BumRush

Member
Looking for some advice on what I should do:

I've recently been employed after my Uni degree with a yearly income of only ~32k pre-tax. Employer doesn't do 401k matching, at least I think. I'm actually not sure I will be with this employer for too long due to the extremely low income. I have only about 10k in savings; I live relatively frugally, so I will definitely be able to save 1/3 to 1/2 of my monthly paycheck.

Should I invest? Should I open a Roth IRA? Should I not do neither because I have so little income and I'm not sure what will happen in the future (change of employer, even moving out of the USA)? Thanks for your help!

My vote is for Roth. You'd be putting money aside at a very low tax bracket. Assuming you will continue to earn more the longer you are employed, this is very advantageous.
 

SaviorX

Member
My vote is for Roth. You'd be putting money aside at a very low tax bracket. Assuming you will continue to earn more the longer you are employed, this is very advantageous.

Im pretty much in the same boat, except my employer matches.

Currently have 100% dedicated into Vanguard Money Market Reserves.

Should i reduce the percentage and split it into others? A Roth?
 

BumRush

Member
Im pretty much in the same boat, except my employer matches.

Currently have 100% dedicated into Vanguard Money Market Reserves.

Should i reduce the percentage and split it into others? A Roth?

Take the match first, then Roth.

So if your employer matches 100% up to 5% of salary, make sure you put 5% in. It's very important that you select a 401K option that has low expenses as some 401K choices are garbage (post the choices in here if you want advice). After that, a Roth is your next best option. The money will grow tax free and there is no requirement to take it out at a certain age (unlike trad IRAs which force you to start taking out your money at a certain age or you're penalized), so it can stay in there as a "last resort" fund. Assuming you'll be at a much higher tax bracket during retirement, paying taxes NOW on your Roth means free money later.
 
Alright, here's my situation: I'm 25 and have been working for 2 years, my company matches 401k decently. (3% i think) Should I start investing on my own now too or wait until I pay off my student loans? I've got about $22k in student loans left.
 

TylerD

Member
Alright, here's my situation: I'm 25 and have been working for 2 years, my company matches 401k decently. (3% i think) Should I start investing on my own now too or wait until I pay off my student loans? I've got about $22k in student loans left.

Depends on how fast you want to get the student loans paid off and what their interest rates are. I had about 35K in loans with interest rates ranging from 4.25-5.75% and balanced investing past my 401k match for the future with paying off the loans about 7 years ahead of schedule. The feeling when you get those suckers finally paid off is incredible and I made more than the loan interest investing during that 2008-2015 period I was paying on them.

Investing for retirement is over the long term so I say you have to find a happy balance between knocking the loans down and investing in the market where you could POTENTIALLY do so much better than that student loan interest %
 
Depends on how fast you want to get the student loans paid off and what their interest rates are. I had about 35K in loans with interest rates ranging from 4.25-5.75% and balanced investing past my 401k match for the future with paying off the loans about 7 years ahead of schedule. The feeling when you get those suckers finally paid off is incredible and I made more than the loan interest investing during that 2008-2015 period I was paying on them.

Investing for retirement is over the long term so I say you have to find a happy balance between knocking the loans down and investing in the market where you could POTENTIALLY do so much better than that student loan interest %

Thanks for the advice. I've got two 6.55% loans, will probably knock those out before looking into investing.
 
Thanks for the advice. I've got two 6.55% loans, will probably knock those out before looking into investing.
Yes, take care of those first. Match your employers contribution, then use the rest for the loans. Average return on the S&P 500 is about 7% after inflation, so you're better off paying those high interest loans first. Would be a bit different if they were 2-3% or so.
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I just turned 28. I have about ~$50K in my work's 401K. When I started at 23, I began by putting in 6%, and have bumped it up a percent with each raise. I now contribute 11%, with my company matching another 3%.

I knew my wife, who is a few years older than me at 32, had a pretty good discipline about saving. We were going over the numbers, and she has about $110K. She's currently contributing 12% with a 4% additional company match, but on a salary about half mine.

Anyway - my point is - we're further "ahead" than I thought we were; and I think we now have enough saved that it's worth doing more than just checking a box on the Fidelity site. I intend to do some research in the coming days - seems there's a lot of good content in this thread to review.


I know opening a Roth is going to be the first suggestion. Any other "do this FIRST" suggestions? Just to get me started on my research.
 

BumRush

Member
Alright, here's my situation: I'm 25 and have been working for 2 years, my company matches 401k decently. (3% i think) Should I start investing on my own now too or wait until I pay off my student loans? I've got about $22k in student loans left.

Invest up to company match first, then handle student loans before you do anything. Try to live as frugally as possible until those are paid, as 7% (while not awful in student loan terms) is high.

I just turned 28. I have about ~$50K in my work's 401K. When I started at 23, I began by putting in 6%, and have bumped it up a percent with each raise. I now contribute 11%, with my company matching another 3%.

I knew my wife, who is a few years older than me at 32, had a pretty good discipline about saving. We were going over the numbers, and she has about $110K. She's currently contributing 12% with a 4% additional company match, but on a salary about half mine.

Anyway - my point is - we're further "ahead" than I thought we were; and I think we now have enough saved that it's worth doing more than just checking a box on the Fidelity site. I intend to do some research in the coming days - seems there's a lot of good content in this thread to review.


I know opening a Roth is going to be the first suggestion. Any other "do this FIRST" suggestions? Just to get me started on my research.

Do you have any debt? Most investing sites / gurus will tell you to take the company match first, then pay off any high interest debt.
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Invest up to company match first, then handle student loans before you do anything. Try to live as frugally as possible until those are paid, as 7% (while not awful in student loan terms) is high.



Do you have any debt? Most investing sites / gurus will tell you to take the company match first, then pay off any high interest debt.

Mortgage (owe less than half of original buying price)
1 Car Payment, two other cars paid off
~$15K in student loan debt (down from $55K+ at graduation) ... .... but, I know this sounds silly if we're being "smart," but I like that I still could defer or do a payment plan or something else if something awful came up. I plan to have it paid off in the next 2-3 years, and it doesn't "stress me out," if that makes sense

Have about ~$100K in available credit cards between the two of us, but rarely use even 5-10% of that, and almost always pay down to $0 at the end of the month.

We have about 4-6 months salary stashed away; however, we absolutely must re-do our basement in the next six months or so, as we're going to need it soon as we're trying for kids.
 

BumRush

Member
Mortgage (owe less than half of original buying price)
1 Car Payment, two other cars paid off
~$15K in student loan debt (down from $55K+ at graduation) ... .... but, I know this sounds silly if we're being "smart," but I like that I still could defer or do a payment plan or something else if something awful came up. I plan to have it paid off in the next 2-3 years, and it doesn't "stress me out," if that makes sense

Have about ~$100K in available credit cards between the two of us, but rarely use it and almost always pay down to $0 at the end of the month.

We have about 4-6 months salary stashed away; however, we absolutely must re-do our basement in the next six months or so, as we're going to need it soon as we're trying for kids.

You're in a pretty good spot financially, so be excited about that! If those student loans (or the car) have an interest rate over 5% or so, I'd really focus on them if you can.
 

Scarecrow

Member
Have a question and I want to know if this is doable/legal:

I work in a foreign country. Can I buy US stocks with a foreign bank, and eventually sell them, putting the funds into my American bank.
 
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