How would Bruce Lee, at his peak, fare in the UFC?
- Thread starter Giard
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Bruce wasn't mystical. His philosophy was doing away with the mysticism, the traditions. He made a name for himself by being an incredible fighter. He then made another name for himself by making action films as his career.smurfx said:
He wouldn't make a name for himself in combat sports because combat sports are far removed from what he was concerned with - actual 'real life' combat.
People really need to stop thinking of JKD as a style. It was a process in learning what was best for you when it came to fighting. It was effective because it allowed him to develop what worked for him.agrajag said:
And again, you wouldn't test real life combat technique by entering a sport arena. It isn't reflective of anything but its own rules.
As has been said before, Lee would get slaughtered in the UFC if he just jumped in there and went for it. However, if he was serious about it and trained for months and started at the bottom, got himself adjusted to it all, he could have very well been a champ and dominated his weight class. Even if you remove the argument about his actual martial arts ability (of which I am a in the camp that believes his skill was real), the fact is the man was disciplined and intense. He took training seriously and seems to exhibit a personality that hints towards Lee working his ass off to be the very best MMA fighter he could possible be
you know i don't get people bringing up bruce lee's speed and being amazed by it. he was a small guy so of course he was going to be very quick. i'm more amazed at bigger fighters who had great hand speed like mike tyson. not only did he have speed but great punching power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51090bGcoR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51090bGcoR8
I also highly doubt that. Why are you guys so attached to the idea that UFC/Pride/Whatever can recreate the conditions of an actual non-sport fight (ie. having no conditions), or that martial artists have to prove themselves in a ring? There was a youtube link posted a page back that dealt with that particular religious belief and dismissed it.agrajag said:
For example, would you say someone in the special forces would need to prove their hand-to-hand ability when it comes to killing dudes by stepping into a ring? No. Because that sort of combat is completely different to what happens in a ring. Inside the ring, the trained MMA fighter would wipe the floor with that soldier. Outside, the soldier would kill the MMA fighter in seconds.
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Deleted member 8095
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Can someone please post some videos of Bruce Lee actually fighting? You know, not in a movie but an actual real fight.
Dreams-Visions
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word word.Suairyu said:
There are none, to my knowledge. Why would one have been recorded?WinoMcCougarstein said:
I'm completely unaware of if there were or were not conditions to that fight. He rather famously got into a few no-rules fights in his lifetime and won. I can't comment on that karate fight.agrajag said:
Look up interviews of his friends and students. They say with much more authority on the subject than any of us can.
Also, why would he be a coward for not partaking in UFC?
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Suairyu said:
Just curious. Everyone is acting like he is the greatest fighter to ever walk the Earth and I was hoping I could actually see him fight and base it off something that wasn't done in a movie.
Suairyu said:
Let's think about this for a bit. Why would a guy who's a great cage fighter not be a great fighter outside of the cage? Are cage fighters particularly susceptible to hair pulling and eye gouging? Are cage fighters completely clueless when it comes to kicking people in the nuts?
If a guy kicked my ass in a cage, what reason would I have to think that I might stand a chance if it were in an alley instead?
With a rifle?
TheKaeptain
Banned
To maybe prove that he was the best. Like the Gracie's did and were doing since the 50's.Suairyu said:
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Hey guys Slyvester Stallone was totally the best boxer in the history of man.
I have no idea how "dirty" the average MMA fighter knows how to fight. However, it is fair the say the vast bulk of their training is around sport-sanctioned technique, right? I'm not saying MMA fighters can't fight outside the ring, I'm saying MMA as presented in MMA sports aren't representative of non-sport combat, which is true. A street fight is over in seconds, a sports fight takes minutes.smurfx said:
For example, when not in a ring based environment you never take it to the ground unless you don't have a choice. You're liable to have some uninvited friend of your opponent completely blindside you. You go fast for the eyes, throat and balls. You slap a cupped hand over their ear, which is more disruptive than any right hook.
I'm actually not seeing the conflict between being an amazing martial arts practitioner and having a movie career as a stunt fighter. For the record, I also don't see a conflict between being an amazing martial arts practitioner and having a UFC career as a sports fighter, either. People close to him simply say he wasn't concerned with it and give very good reasons why.Fusebox said:
He loved boxing, though.
Suairyu said:
Here's why. Because UFC/Pride/Whatever ARE the closest equivalent we have of no-holds-barred all-out-fighting without it being so. There are less illegal moves in an MMA ruleset than there is in any combat sport or MA tradition. Traditional martial arts disciplines rarely have full contact sparring, and those that do have rules too. Kyokushin doesn't allow people to punch the head. Muay Thai has very limited grappling. And so forth. MMA was originally conceived to test which disciplines/styles/methods are the most effective and which would prevail when tested against one another. As it turned out, a fusion of multiple methods and cross training is the most effective approach.
Although MMA does have a few restrictions such as small joint manipulations, eye gouging, fish-hooking and groin strikes, it's as close to a street fight as it gets in a controlled, legal environment. The major difference is that these are trained athletes, not street brawlers, who train and hone their techniques, do strength and conditioning training, and in all areas are equipped to annihilate a random guy off the street.
I have no idea why you think that "street fighting" would be a bigger test than fighting a trained fighter whose bread and butter is to train daily to hurt people.
Suairyu said:
The rules in the UFC and the MMA unified rules in general are fairly limited and probably ones that Lee himself would be for - i.e. no stomps, no kicks to the head of a grounded opponent (though both were legal in Pride), no eye gouging, biting, pinching, kicks to the groin, etc.
Modern MMA is particularly strong in conveying something like a real-life fight because it's specifically based on being an all-around fighter, both stand-up and ground. Real-life fights start standing and most often end up on the ground since the two sides are usually so poor at striking. A trained MMA fighter would brutalize your typical non-professional fighter in a street fight, and yes, that includes a "soldier in the Special Forces." So much mythologizing in this thread. Special Forces training encompasses a myriad of things, most of which have nothing to do with hand-to-hand combat. MMA fighters live and breathe it.
TheKaeptain
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More fights end on the ground than they do standing up.
dude a ton of street fights go to the ground. hell just watch some youtube videos and see how often it happens. plus i've been in some street fights and i've seen a ton of street fights and i've never seen somebody gouge somebody's eyes or try to cause permanent damage. i bet a ton of the special forces guys almost will never be in a situation where they have to kill somebody barehanded. they will always use a gun or a knife.Suairyu said:
TheKaeptain
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SF guys have only a few months of hand to hand. They specialize in weapons. They usually take BJJ classes on their off time to advance technique.
I didn't say that, either. I said UFC wouldn't encompass those sorts of things. There is no reason why a trained MMA sports fighter can't also be awesome outside of the ring. All I'm saying is that the "Bruce would need to prove himself in UFC" is as ridiculous as mythologising Bruce as some invincible Superman.Slo said:
Many people would suck at being in both camps due to muscle memory, though. Looking at UFC fights, I see people adopting a wide-base stance not dissimilar to Thai Boxing (which a lot of MMA fighters probably have as a base). That'd lead to a swift kick in the nuts, for example. In a jam we fall back onto what feels most natural and practised. I'm sure plenty of people wouldn't have a problem falling back onto what works in each situation.
Untrained fights, sure. Which is what we're talking about here - someone who knew what they were doing would go for an eye jab* or something equally as squishy. And yes, knowing how to grapple is very important because you might end up there. But it's important in the "hope you never have to use it" sense. It leaves you so vulnerable if someone thinks they want to help their buddy out.smurfx said:
*Though massively effective, eye jabbing is one of the most humane things you can do. It scratches the cornea a little bit, causes a ton of pain, but rarely does any lasting damage. You couldn't kill someone with it, unlike near enough everything else if it went wrong.
TheKaeptain
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Yeah the same guy that ducked JCVD would wreck Bruce LeeTom Penny said:
Lol
HiResDes said:
No, some people are very much hating. Some of the comments smell like "sweet, a chance to really go against the grain and troll Bruce Lee."
I said the same thing you just did. He would have to to adapt but I believe he could have a lot of success after some training in MMA styles. He also does have a documented history of participating in various tournaments so his talent wasn't all "tv and film magic".
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Just from skimming the thread, it seems like some people are doubting Bruce Lee was capable of anything more than movie martial arts and wouldn't even handle himself in a real fight period. How is that not hating?Medalion said:
Medalion said:
If you think I was talking to specifically then you are most certainly coming into this conversation from a place of hate since I never quoted nor mentioned you at all. So if you somehow took it as I am speaking to you, you are fully aware you are acting like a hateful little girl.
Suairyu said:
It's perplexing why you think people who do nothing but train for fighting all day would suddenly be baffled when someone in a street fight throws a kick to the nuts. Chances are if that person throws some lazy kick to the groin, the MMA fighter will grab the leg and either shove a fist into their face, or take them to the ground and pound them out or break an arm.
Oh, it's not a knockout blow. It disrupts equilibrium. You use it in combo. Done well enough, it can burst ear drums, which leaves most people having difficulty coordinating movement for a while. And it hurts.Fusebox said:
The fuck? I never said that. I've been criticising sports fighting environments as representations of out-of-ring combat, not the fighters themselves. A lot of people would struggle adapting from environment to environment. A lot of people wouldn't.Zeliard said:
In the context of him competing professionally in UFC straight out, there is room for doubt he could just flat out pwn everybody.XiaNaphryz said:
No one should deny his physique, ability, movie or not, the guy was quick, agile, wise, and he would no doubt go far cuz he had a very good attitude and training philosphy.
Suairyu said:
No, that was my point. While you were throwin a palm slap, your opponent just threw a haymaker.
Do you even watch UFC? It sounds like you've seen a few random clips and are just making the rest up.
Suairyu said:
A strange tangent to get fixated on considering you're trying to defend someone is famous for his choreographed fighting in movies.
Zeliard said:
Buck Shelford carried on playing a game of international rugby after having teeth knocked out, sustaining a concussion, and having his nutsack ripped open by an opposition player's boot.
Tough is tough.
Edit: Buck would tear up UFC. Kiwi-GAF and rugby-GAF will back me on this.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
You might be confusing Bruce Lee with a plate of ribs.Tom Penny said:
Medalion said:
then you shouldn't be championing "aint no hating going on" because you are on the same page as the majority of gaf in here. There are a fringe element claiming he is god and would murder every fighter by simply farting in their direction, and then you have another fringe acting like he is smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors gaf are hating.
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