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Hurricane Katrina Thread: Any LA Gaffers?

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Regarding pre-Katrina shortcomings, you really can't blame any one party in paticular since there's an entire culture of cost-benefit shortcut taking across the country. The only difference is that this time we didn't get away with it like we usually expect to. I mean, there were MANY things that could have been done in New Orleans that would have helped, not just levee/floodwall integrity... but something that MIGHT happen is rarely a huge motivator, and something that'll happen NOW always beats what MIGHT happen later. This goes for many issues too, and some parties are heavily/compulsively invested in the Now aspect, like loss in per-quarter profit.

Now, incompetence in the aftermath is another matter...
 
ToxicAdam said:
1) Its economies of scale. A city of 50k should have the same resources as 500k.

2) 80% of a city underwater is the same as 80% of a city buried in rubble.


The difference is planning and leadership.
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1. Its called the problem of scale. Costs of running a city starts skyrocketing as the population gets larger. Highway costs, major hospital costs, education costs, major police and fire fighting force become more and more exp...you know what, if you don't know why infrastructure costs start getting exponentially larger compared to population rise, you really need to learn about surface area to volume of a damn box or play sim city or something. Jesus.

2. Possibly, if that rubble was 5 to 20 feet deep across 80% of the city. Somehow, I doubt that Biloxi had that much shit to even leave rubble like that.
 
Phoenix said:
Folks I'm going to be out of touch for the next several days. I am heading down to Houston to get people on their way back to Atlanta and once they have the resources they need I am heading down to New Orleans to try and get people that I have made contact with today. I'll try to be in contact with folks and communicate when I can, but I will likely be out of touch for several days.


Talk to you when I get back!

-Greg
Click to expand...

Good luck, godspeed.
 
Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush


Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them before they get to DC on September 21st.
 
I thought someone predicted it...but Haliburton has been awarded a contract by the Navy to start cleaning up.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685

The Navy has hired Houston-based Halliburton Co. to restore electric power, repair roofs and remove debris at three naval facilities in Mississippi damaged by Hurricane Katrina.

Halliburton subsidiary KBR will also perform damage assessments at other naval installations in New Orleans as soon as it is safe to do so.

KBR was assigned the work under a "construction capabilities" contract awarded in 2004 after a competitive bidding process. The company is not involved in the Army Corps of Engineers' effort to repair New Orleans' levees.
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Phoenix said:
Folks I'm going to be out of touch for the next several days. I am heading down to Houston to get people on their way back to Atlanta and once they have the resources they need I am heading down to New Orleans to try and get people that I have made contact with today. I'll try to be in contact with folks and communicate when I can, but I will likely be out of touch for several days.


Talk to you when I get back!

-Greg
Click to expand...

Good luck man.
 
Phoenix said:
Folks I'm going to be out of touch for the next several days. I am heading down to Houston to get people on their way back to Atlanta and once they have the resources they need I am heading down to New Orleans to try and get people that I have made contact with today. I'll try to be in contact with folks and communicate when I can, but I will likely be out of touch for several days.


Talk to you when I get back!

-Greg
Click to expand...

Good luck, be safe. And thanks.
 
Phoenix said:
Folks I'm going to be out of touch for the next several days. I am heading down to Houston to get people on their way back to Atlanta and once they have the resources they need I am heading down to New Orleans to try and get people that I have made contact with today. I'll try to be in contact with folks and communicate when I can, but I will likely be out of touch for several days.

Talk to you when I get back!
Click to expand...
You're brave. Good man. Best of luck to you, stay safe. I think it's important that we all recognize what Phoenix has done and is doing. It's a great thing.
 
"Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty."


Shit, your still alive. :(

Good ol Michael Moore rhetoric.

Obnoxious fuck too.
 
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Wow. Just saw inside the Superdome.

Garbage EVERYWHERE, crap on the field....light pouring through the holes in the ceiling....so depressing...
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http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...5sep02,0,4766048.story?coll=sfla-news-florida

irboaters stalled by FEMA

The pilots stand ready to go help hurricane victims but have not been allowed to do so.

Nancy Imperiale
Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted September 2 2005


As a flooded New Orleans sinks further into despair, up to 500 Florida airboat pilots have volunteered to rescue Hurricane Katrina victims, transport relief workers and ferry supplies.

But they aren't being allowed in. And they're growing frustrated.

"We cannot get deployed to save our behinds," said Robert Dummett, state coordinator of the Florida Airboat Association. He said the pilots, who range from commercial airboat operators to weekend pleasure boaters, "are physically sick, watching the New Orleans coverage and knowing that the resources to help these poor people is sitting right in our driveways."

On standby since Monday, the pilots -- many from Central Florida -- have spent thousands of their own dollars stocking their boats and swamp buggies with food, water, medical supplies and fuel.

But the Federal Emergency Management Agency will not authorize the airboaters to enter New Orleans. Without that permission, they would be subject to arrest and would not receive security and support services.

The airboat association has complained to several congressmen who have contacted the federal agency on their behalf.

"To me, 500 airboats seems a perfect solution to the chaos and difficulty getting people out of their flooded homes," said U.S. Rep Mark Foley, R-Palm Beach Gardens. "I'd love them to be able to go in and help, and that's what I've conveyed to FEMA."

A FEMA representative said citizen volunteers are not being allowed into New Orleans for one big reason: It's just not safe.

"I think it's understandable, particularly given the TV footage that the entire world is seeing, for folks who have a big heart to feel a little bit frustrated and want to help," said Frances Marine, Orlando's FEMA public-affairs director. "However, it's so important to be coordinated. Those areas are dangerous right now. There are health hazards and limited ways of getting in and out. . . . Right now, private citizens trying to go into those impacted areas are more hindrance than help."

That explanation doesn't sit well with one victim of Hurricane Andrew, who e-mailed the airboat association, demanding to know why they weren't in New Orleans.

"I lost my house with Andrew," said Merle Arostegui, 59, of Perrine. "I was one of those people sitting on what was left of my doorstep. Let me tell you: I could be [a victim] in New Orleans right now, and I am so frustrated.''

Meanwhile, airboat operators watch and wait.

"It's probably a 50-50 chance right now that we'll go," said James E. Brown, a 54-year-old Longwood man who heads a convoy of 14 local airboat pilots. "We're willing to go, we're able to go, but it's all up to FEMA."

However, chaos in the Big Easy is making boaters' family members nervous.

"The more that is shown on TV of the shootings and looting," Brown said, "the more loved ones are telling us: 'Don't go. You're not going
 
Superdome is going to need a lot to become less scary, quite frankly. First thing I'd do is just rip up the astroturf and with it, rip up the roof. Put in natural grass. It will be much lighter and much more airy. The grass will make it more welcoming. Give it a lighter paint job. Maybe a bluish.

I know it would come at the expense of weather and getting Superbowls, but who cares. No one is going in that thing ever again unless it's practically unrecognizable.
 
Good luck Pheonix. I know it's been a shitty year for you, much respect for how strong you're coming through everything and what you're doing for others.

Regarding how this hurricane and its aftermath have been handled, it's a disaster. All you people making excuses, I tell you, in a week or so when we get a real idea of the death toll and damage done you'll see the collosal failure for what it is. The world should hang it's head in shame.

It's not like we don't have experience. The tsunami not so long ago gave us a lot to learn. The most important thing being that time is of the essence. Every hour you delay could mean hundreds or even thousands of deaths. At that time, the disaster came without warning, and although things started very slow with reports of 50 or 60 confirmed deaths, when a truer picture came out action was swift. Within 2 days of the initial disaster there were US Hercules helicopters dropping supplies to the needy.

However this should have been easier. After all we knew the hurricane was a danger beforehand and that there was a possibility of disaster. Pre-preparations should have been done with aid standing by just in case. As soon as the hurricane struck and it was seen that entire places had been pretty much wiped out with the levees under real threat, at that point it was obvious that there was a real chance that thousands were dead and thousands more may yet die. No guarantee, but a very real possibility. At that point it should have been all hands to the pump. You shouldn't wait to see how just bad it actually is, because time is of the essence. You get everything you possibly can as quickly as you possibly can. It doesn't matter if you raise too much.

I don't care about the federal/local setup. Everyone should have pitched in saying we need to go all out, 100 fucking percent to help. The president should have been on tv day 1, saying this is a disaster, an emergency a catastrophe. National agencies, the military that costs $100s of billions every year should have been ready for action. International support should have been drummed up. The local authorities should have been given all the support they need. Supplies should have been airdropped day 1, so as to delay any chaos. That strong message would have filtered down. NGOs and charities would then be appealing for emergency help worldwide. The media would have focused on the tragedy, not on the looting or questioning whether people had only themselves to blame for not leaving, and instead spreading the true message of what was happening. The people on the ground would be in no doubt they need to be 100% and also know they have 100% backup and support. Everyone would have been on the ball and things like the convention centre being ignored for 2 days wouldn't have happened.

This has been a failure on all levels. Of local, national and even international government, of NGOs, of the media, of many agencies on the ground even. That a disaster was one of the predicted scenarios for the preceding week makes this unforgivable. Like I said, in a week or two, the world will hang it's head in shame as it becomes clear that everyone just stood by and watched it happen, and save for some people right in the thick of it no one has done anywhere near enough, at a cost of thousands of lives.
 
Senators call for an immediate investigation:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050902/pl_nm/weather_katrina_senate_dc
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two key U.S. senators said on Friday they will open a bipartisan investigation into what they described as an "immense failure" of the government response to the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Sen. Susan Collins (news, bio, voting record), a Maine Republican who heads the
Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, and Sen. Joseph Lieberman (news, bio, voting record) of Connecticut, the panel's top Democrat, said they plan to begin an oversight investigation next week when the full Senate returns from a summer recess.

"We intend to demand answers as to how this immense failure occurred, but our immediate focus must and will be on what Congress can do to help the rescue and emergency operations that are ongoing," the senators said in a joint statement.

"It is also our responsibility to investigate the lack of preparedness and inadequate response to this terrible storm," they said, adding that it was "increasingly clear that serious shortcomings in preparedness and response have hampered relief efforts at a critical time."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, called for the investigation saying he hoped the lessons learned would improve the government's response to future disasters.

The Bush administration's handling of the disaster that wreaked havoc in the Gulf Coast and spilled a devastating flood into New Orleans has come under sharp criticism.

As President George W. Bush toured the disaster area, Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record) said the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which the Bush administration placed under the Department of Homeland Security, failed to deploy enough resources to the area quickly.

She called on Bush to appoint a Cabinet-level official to direct the national response to the calamity.

"There was a time when FEMA understood that the correct approach to a crisis was to deploy to the affected area as many resources as possible as fast as possible," Landrieu said. "Unfortunately that no longer seems to be their approach."

Congress sent Bush a $10.5 billion emergency spending bill on Friday to cover some of the initial costs of the recovery effort and lawmakers have promised much more.
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Also, what's the deal with Mary Landrieu being so critical of FEMA? Did she realize how fucking disgraceful she came off in those interviews last night? She couldn't stop singing the praises of everyone, and now she's suddenly less than impressed. What a bitch.
 
Some people have reportedly resorted to cannibalism
cry0jo.gif



It is reported that black hurricane victims in New Orleans have begun eating corpses to survive. Four days after the storm, thousands of blacks in New Orleans are dying like dogs. No-one has come to help them.

I am a sixty-four year old African-American.
New Orleans marks the end of the America I strove for.

I am hopeless. I am sad. I am angry against my country for doing nothing when it mattered.

This is what we have come to. This defining watershed moment in America’s racial history. For all the world to witness. For those who’ve been caused to listen for a lifetime to America’s ceaseless hollow bleats about democracy. For Christians, Jews and Muslims at home and abroad. For rich and poor. For African-American soldiers fighting in Iraq. For African-Americans inside the halls of officialdom and out.

My hand shakes with anger as I write. I, the formerly un-jaundiced human rights advocate, have finally come to see my country for what it really is. A monstrous fraud.

But what can I do but write about how I feel. How millions, black like me, must feel at this, the lowest moment in my country’s story.



Randall Robinson
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*link*


cry0jo.gif
cry0jo.gif
cry0jo.gif
 
I hate to bring politics into this but I have been saying for years that the federal Government, president included, doesn't GIVE A FLYING FUCK about people living under the poverty line. I mean Jesus....are YOU GUYS WATCHING FOX NEWS RIGHT NOW?? Geraldo Rivera is in the convention center holding a FUCKING STARVING BABY AND BEGGING for help!!!!!!

Now Sheppard Smith is saying that the feds are NOT ALLOWING people to leave the convention center....PERIOD!!!!



WHAT












THE

















FUCK?????????????
 
isamu said:
I hate to bring politics into this but I have been saying for years that the federal Government, president included, doesn't GIVE A FLYING FUCK about people living under the poverty line. I mean Jesus....are YOU GUYS WATCHING FOX NEWS RIGHT NOW?? Geraldo Rivera is in the convention center holding a FUCKING STARVING BABY AND BEGGING for help!!!!!!

Now Sheppard Smith is saying that the feds are NOT ALLOWING people to leave the convention center....PERIOD!!!!

WHAT THE FUCK?????????????
Click to expand...

Fucking A man, what the hell is going on there? Convoy of hope my ass...
 
Cloudy said:
What do you guys think of the new controversy regarding the term "refugee". I just saw a congresswoman on TV saying the victims shouldn't be referred to as that.

I think I agree cos I'm trying to think back to when I ever heard that term used to describe displaced Americans in a disaster and I can't think of one...
Click to expand...

I'd like to address this from a few pages back.

The legal definition of "refugee", in international law, refers to people who have been displaced from their native country. So, by that definition, these people aren't refugees.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/q023.htm
 
Anyhow, I'd like to add a couple thoughts here.

A) Phoenix, good luck to you man. You really are an example to all of us. Discussion on GAF isn't just an abstraction to you as it may be for so many on here. You back up your words with action. You live your words. I salute you for it.

B) There is still too much bullshit politicizing going on about this. Both in this thread, and out in the "real world". And it sickens me. Now, I think both sides are guilty, but probably the Right a little bit moreso, if only because of the fact that they're the ones in power at the moment.

In this thread, as far as I can tell, ToxicAdam is by far the worst offender. So to you, I say: SHUT THE FUCK UP.

C) I appreciate Guileless' post a couple pages back. Now, most of you here give him a lot of shit for his positions, but I think his post was good for some perspective, as hard as that may be given how horrific the situation is.

D) Going back to the politicizing again. It seems to me, from seeing some of the clips of Anderson Cooper, and other reporters, that they are getting pissed off at the politicians and their spin. Is it possible, that from this disaster, we might see the media, to put it crudely, find their balls again, and start doing their job by thinking critically and not accepting the bullshit given out by the administration at face value?
 
Boogie said:
D) Going back to the politicizing again. It seems to me, from seeing some of the clips of Anderson Cooper, and other reporters, that they are getting pissed off at the politicians and their spin. Is it possible, that from this disaster, we might see the media, to put it crudely, find their balls again, and start doing their job by thinking critically and not accepting the bullshit given out by the administration at face value?
Click to expand...

One can only hope that the media will be invigorated to get their shit together after years of doing little actual widespread journalism.
 
karasu said:
No way. Why on earth would people start eating people after four days? I don't buy that at all.
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I'm not sure how long it would take for people to resort to cannibalism, but yeah, I'd tend to think more than four. I dunno. I certainly don't lend enough credibility to a throwaway comment in a left-wing blog to believe it right away, though.
 
Why are they having a concert? The money that was used to setup the event and pay MTV brand name artists could have been spent on relief.


"Yaaaaa people died, the living had their lives ruined, and a great city was destroyed, let's sing some songs!"
 
Society said:
Why are they having a concert? The money that was used to setup the event and pay MTV brand name artists could have been spent on relief.


"Yaaaaa people died, the living had their lives ruined, and a great city was destroyed, let's sing some songs!"
Click to expand...

They appear on these things for free.
 
My Sister-in-law is a Nurse in Abilene, TX and is driving today down to Gulfport MS. That is where her Dad, my father-in-law and my brother-in-law live. She's going to see if they will let her help out.

My BIL's house is gone, but my FILs is still there. We still haven't heard from my FIL though.

She's taking a flat bed truck and all the supplies that she can carry, and her shotgun. Plus her son-in-law is going, I hope they don't get hijacked once they get there.
 
As if these folks haven't been through enough... :(

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3801899

One dead after busload of Hurricane Katrina evacuees overturns

OPELOUSAS, La. -- A bus shuttling refugees out of New Orleans crashed on Friday, killing one person and injuring more than a dozen, after one of the passengers grew agitated and ended up in a struggle with the driver to get him to stop the bus.

Opelousas Police Capt. Mark LeBlanc said that after the tussle, the driver lost control of the bus, sending it across a median strip and overturning on the southbound side of the highway, about 130 miles west of New Orleans.

It wasn't immediately known who died. There were between 45 and 50 passengers on board, 17 of whom were injured, police said.

More...
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