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I don't understand the love for "Classic Team Fortress 2"

wipeout364

Member
When I came into this thread I thought you were talking about Team Fortress mod on the Quake engine. That indeed was the pinnacle of team fortress for me. I loved the soldier's nail grenades the dirty needles, the EMP grenades, the quake weapons, and 2 fort and the well along with a few other classic maps. I stayed up many nights playing that game. It's probably nostalgia glasses but I think that was my favorite multiplayer game of all time.

Valve did a great job of their re-master of team fortress classic; but team fortress 2 feels like another beast not bad but different. I don't think that people necessarily want TF2 to go away but they want the pure version that is not all about hats and cases, the team fortress that was a labour of love and not the one feels like its trying to extract money from you all the time.
 
I just shoot rockets at peeps in TF2. I never gave this topic much thought.

Personally I have always found it fun, and haven't noticed most changes, but I'm a casual TF2 player.

Rocketing people in the face with critical rockets and seeing them explode is still excellent.
 

PhaZZe

Banned
this week i stared played again tf2, was all fun, i never played vanilla but tf2 is fun to play, you have a quick match for your favorite game mode, you have co-op, they added official server in a lot of new places(South america), is free to play, they are adding competitive, and asking for feedback (balancing). maybe some people are right for some weapons are overpowered but i never feel like underpowered or they killed easy for certain weapons or sets.
they have some things to fix like performance or some patches where only for people with a pass for 6 usd(not sure). for a free to play game when some cosmetics dont do shit is a great FPS game.
 

Ty4on

Member
[...]

There was a certain point where TF2 was at its best. It had some wackiness like the Dead Ringer, [...]

That update was so wonderful OP for spy players.

Dead Ringer was OP as fuck with a bajillion % damage reduction and full reload with ammo packs. You could troll entire teams by running around spawn with it activated.

The killing taunt was bugged and could be performed while invisible. That meant it could take out a sentry nest in no time.
 

mèx

Member
Not to sound like a "git gud" type, bust most of the lamenting over the existence of weapons just sounds like people not wanting to put forth the effort to learn the game.

Yeah, most of the non-gameplay stuff is terrible thanks to arbitrary fake virtual scarcity imposed by the economists and psychologists at Valve to ring you dry with their gambling simulator, but having more gameplay variety, freshness, and personalization does nothing but improve a game.

"Bloat" is a silly complaint for a game because you're talking about value. The game won't get boring because you always have new stuff to try, learn about, etc.

Basically this. Surely TF2 is not as easy as it was back then to get into, the game got more complex over time due to all the weapons they added. But still, it's straightforward (from an experienced player perspective) to distinguish between a Pyro with Backburner or a Degreaser, between a Soldier with a Direct Hit or a Black Box, and so on. All the weapons are visually different and you can spot them from a mile away. The only 'problem' is that you have to learn what each weapon does, how to deal with them, how to counter them. This requires time and effort, because as for now TF2 is a pretty complex and deep game, both knowledge-wise and mechanical-wise.

Every weapon is different (models, skins, sounds, animations), there is always a cue that makes you aware of what weapon the enemy is using. If people can't understand the cues, it is because they need to play more and put effort in actually understanding how each weapon works. I'm not saying this is simple and immediate, it's actually pretty complex and could require some time (even more so for returning or new players)!

So if you decide to come back to TF2, you have to put some effort, basically. I can guarantee you that it will be worth it though! (and please try matchmaking, 6on6 is sooo fuuuun).
 

RankFTW

Unconfirmed Member
2008/9 TF2 was the best version imo, before they started to add so much random stuff and it went f2p.
 

Crayolan

Member
I don't know when TF2's peak was, but it definitely wasn't vanilla. I played some vanilla through the XB360 version years back and it was...not great. Things felt really unbalanced, Sniper and Pyro felt completely useless, the small number of maps wasn't great, and playing with the vanilla loadouts only gets stale after a while.

The game is better for having more variation in weapon and map design. Does it have too much variation/bloat? Maybe, but not enough that the thought ever crossed my mind until I read it on gaf.

And the hats "ruining the visual design" is not something I care about at all as the wackiness is what drew to me to the game in the first place.
 
There really should have been a TF3 a long time ago that updated the classes and overall gameplay. Instead, Overwatch has completely eaten TF2's lunch. IMHO.
 
Think they'll ever balance the classes so that competitive no longer needs to impossible a billion rules to make it work? I cant think of another game where the comp scene plays such a different game from what you generally expect from pubs.

TF2 is balanced around 6v6 and 8v8, so it's not unbalanced there. What happened was Highlander (9v9, one of each class) became the dominant competitive format, so they've been balancing the weapons around that instead of 6v6. Accordingly, most weapons are banned in the latter.
 

GamerJM

Banned
Honestly I feel like it partially has to do with the community being a lot better back then.

Also if you still want to play TF2 vanilla the 360 version was still active a couple years ago or so, though I don't know how it's doing now.
 

ZoddGutts

Member
I prefer when the game wasn't over balanced. Each character was kinda OP/Broken but in a fun way. Playing now as a spy sucks, no more trolling. Also loved bonking an uber heavy. A game like TF2 doesn't need to be balanced to death, it kills the fun.
 

TheYanger

Member
mèx;206481411 said:
Basically this. Surely TF2 is not as easy as it was back then to get into, the game got more complex over time due to all the weapons they added. But still, it's straightforward (from an experienced player perspective) to distinguish between a Pyro with Backburner or a Degreaser, between a Soldier with a Direct Hit or a Black Box, and so on. All the weapons are visually different and you can spot them from a mile away. The only 'problem' is that you have to learn what each weapon does, how to deal with them, how to counter them. This requires time and effort, because as for now TF2 is a pretty complex and deep game, both knowledge-wise and mechanical-wise.

Every weapon is different (models, skins, sounds, animations), there is always a cue that makes you aware of what weapon the enemy is using. If people can't understand the cues, it is because they need to play more and put effort in actually understanding how each weapon works. I'm not saying this is simple and immediate, it's actually pretty complex and could require some time (even more so for returning or new players)!

So if you decide to come back to TF2, you have to put some effort, basically. I can guarantee you that it will be worth it though! (and please try matchmaking, 6on6 is sooo fuuuun).

"It's easy to distinguish between X and Y"...if you've played a hundred hours and know everything by heart, sure, but otherwise that shit is dense and obtuse. It's a lot easier to tell the difference immediately between a Genji and a Hanzo than it is a fucking Direct Hit and a Regular rocket launcher, and know what the difference is (and yes, since that was an early addition I bet a lot of us could tell that specific one apart, but since I quit there've been two dozen shitty weapons added).

You can say that in OW you have to learn 21 heroes and whoever else they add, what's the difference, but the difference is that it's extremely easy to learn and understand the difference between distinct looking characters than it is similarly themed objects that are being held by the same looking characters. 21 rocket launchers, no matter how distinct they may look, are a lot harder to process than a fat guy, a skinny girl, and a small guy with rollerblades with flopping cyber dreads.
 
Because classic TF2 isn't bloated as fuck.

Overwatch isn't a snapshot of Classic TF2, no.

It's a snapshot of what TF2 could'a, should'a become.
 

fhqwhgads

Member
If anyone's going to argue about how good Valve is with map design, are you going to tell me that 2Fort and Dustbowl are perfectly balanced maps? The maps where the strategy always boils down to how many engineers you can stack at the main objective points and just pray the enemy team isn't coordinated enough to take them down?

I'm not saying all maps suck, I'm saying you can't tell me that the early TF2 maps were all amazing and perfectly balanced whilst all the modern maps they add suck. It does help that Valve has released that maps made for competitive make for good balance so they've been making a bunch of those official.
 
I blame the Uber Update. And not because TF2 went F2P, that didn't matter to me.

It was the Uber Update where they jumped the shark with crappy filler junk weapons. If they liked one item from a set, they'd just throw the whole set into the game and make up random garbage to fill in the rest (Tomislav for example, nice model, Valve loved it, but it didn't need the whole set to come with it)

As the years went on, they dropped the idea that all set items needed to be in if part of it was accepted.

For example, the Pyromania update was probably the turning point where they decided to do quality over quantity. The items from that update were high quality, had decent stats, and they didn't just throw in random garbage because every item from a set needed to get in.

At this point, we're lucky if we get 3 weapons a year, but that's not even regular anymore. But that's fine. Valve has started to go through and fix up some old outdated cosmetics (with the community's help), they're starting to take feedback seriously and starting to make some nice improvements to loading and at least making some sort of effort towards large scale balance.

I still think TF2 is a fantastic game. I've played it just today. And actually, after playing Demo the last few days, decided to try some new weapons out and ran Iron Bomber + Quickie Bombs, and had a lot of fun. So there's still some good ideas present with newer, non-stock weapons.
 

Jarate

Banned
There's too much bloat in current tf2, most of the maps suck (rather then half) the community wasn't f2p, the art style was fairly consistent, and the game was very simple and hard to master

Yes, Demoman is OP, yes some classes aren't that good, but its not like those balance issues were fixed with any of the updates. Demoman is still OP, you're still fucked if you don't run a medic, Heavy, spy, and pyro are hardly ever used for comp play. All the new items did were add a shit ton of bloat and extra things to worry about, when in reality, if they wanted new stuff, they should've just made new classes, which are much easier to balance
 
It's not as much as the balance I like of Classic TF2, it's that Classic TF2 was more optimized to play and was nicer on hardware. Modern TF2 being too bloated just leads to the fact that it runs very poorly on even modern hardware, Valve needs to either clean things up and make certain things work better, or restart on the Source Engine 2 like with DOTA 2.
 

Blackthorn

"hello?" "this is vagina"
"It's easy to distinguish between X and Y"...if you've played a hundred hours and know everything by heart, sure, but otherwise that shit is dense and obtuse. It's a lot easier to tell the difference immediately between a Genji and a Hanzo than it is a fucking Direct Hit and a Regular rocket launcher, and know what the difference is (and yes, since that was an early addition I bet a lot of us could tell that specific one apart, but since I quit there've been two dozen shitty weapons added).

You can say that in OW you have to learn 21 heroes and whoever else they add, what's the difference, but the difference is that it's extremely easy to learn and understand the difference between distinct looking characters than it is similarly themed objects that are being held by the same looking characters. 21 rocket launchers, no matter how distinct they may look, are a lot harder to process than a fat guy, a skinny girl, and a small guy with rollerblades with flopping cyber dreads.
Yeah this is why I hope Overwatch NEVER has multiple weapons for characters and instead adds more characters.

There's also a purity to the simplicity of the current design that I genuinely fear will get lost to please people complaining about a lack of content.

If chess was released today there'd be ten different boards, each piece would have customisable load outs and you'd only unlock the knight after defeating 100 pawns.
 

mèx

Member
"It's easy to distinguish between X and Y"...if you've played a hundred hours and know everything by heart, sure, but otherwise that shit is dense and obtuse. It's a lot easier to tell the difference immediately between a Genji and a Hanzo than it is a fucking Direct Hit and a Regular rocket launcher, and know what the difference is (and yes, since that was an early addition I bet a lot of us could tell that specific one apart, but since I quit there've been two dozen shitty weapons added).

You can say that in OW you have to learn 21 heroes and whoever else they add, what's the difference, but the difference is that it's extremely easy to learn and understand the difference between distinct looking characters than it is similarly themed objects that are being held by the same looking characters. 21 rocket launchers, no matter how distinct they may look, are a lot harder to process than a fat guy, a skinny girl, and a small guy with rollerblades with flopping cyber dreads.

I agree with you except for the "dense and obtuse" part... because it really isn't, you just need to put more effort compared to your average game. That's both terrible and awesome: terrible because most people can't invest or don't want to invest time in learning, awesome because there is so much variety in the playstyles that it's mind-blowing. Once you start playing more, the differences between all the rocket launchers will be as clear as a sunny day.

TF2 is much more complex to get into compared to OW, it's a fact and I don't think it's up for discussion. OW is made to be really accessible, while TF2 got complex over time. For example, by the time your learn what every hero does in OW, you can't even master a basic TF2 skillset like rocket jumping. It's the trade-off you have to make when talking about accessibility.

Both games are really fun and amazing in the end, and that's what counts most.
 
Anybody who experienced the original Dead Ringer knew that Valve was fucking up with adding weapons.

Day 1 Tomislav was probably the single most broken weapon in the history of the game. It was just silly how absolutely insane that weapon on release.

Runner up is probably the Phlog, although that one was more annoying than actually overpowered.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
TF2 back in the day was my shit.

QOenmSj.png


It's why I love Overwatch so much, it's very reminiscent of TF2 before each patch added a million new weapons, hopefully the same doesn't happen to Overwatch.
 

Hargenx

Member
I like the cartoonish fun and down to earth style it has, now is like trying too much to be funny, is just sad, I dunno maybe is just not for me anymore, sadly, I really enjoyed the game before all the crazy hat thing and crazy weapons stuff...
 
The 2012 "balance" patch is what killed TF2. So many dumb changes made because some people don't know how to deal with a low health Soldier that has an Equalizer or the Tomislav when they should know their not suppose to be in front of a class that spits bullets or the dead ringer which makes a loud sound when it deactivates.
 
That's why Team Fortress Classic will always be a better game and I don't mean TF2.

Last time I played TFC, the game was almost nothing but battle Engies because they had eight grenades and a shotgun. Four of the grenades would do damage based on the enemy's ammo, so Engies would destroy anybody attempting to run an actual power class who needed large amounts of ammo to function. The remaining classes were nothing but Medics flying around. Anybody who wanted to defend something could easily do so by spamming grenades at chokes, so the game would periodically grind to a halt.

I played FF a ton when it first came out (when tons of people were playing it too) and it really was just like TFC. It was fun, albeit for nostalgic reason, a little more balanced, but the same problems kept popping up. Once I picked up TF2, I never looked back.
 
It's nostalgia for a time that can't really be quantified. Mostly whenever they first played/played in force rather than actual vanilla. Which is probably closer to vanilla than the present day, to be fair.

The community has certainly seen better days. That's natural for a game pushing ten years old, but a relatively long period of Valve not seeming to really give a shit about the game only made it worse. We're finally getting matchmaking, I guess, but that's been talked about for like three years at this point, and nobody seemed to have really cared for all that long because it's probably not going to live up to expectations. Meh. Uncle Dane pretty much has my thoughts.

Then there's the giant elephant in the room that is Overwatch.

The 2012 "balance" patch is what killed TF2. So many dumb changes made because some people don't know how to deal with a low health Soldier that has an Equalizer or the Tomislav when they should know their not suppose to be in front of a class that spits bullets or the dead ringer which makes a loud sound when it deactivates.

man

i'm still mad about the equalizer
If I remember, the issue they wanted to fix was 'decentralizing the soldier melee', which they didn't even really do since people still just take the Escape Plan or the Market Gardener. On top of that, there are plenty of classes that have the same problem right now.

The Dead Ringer nerf was absolutely for the better, though. It was incredibly stupid that the Pyro had to contain the Spy for nine seconds before the Spy was inevitably killed almost instantly, wasting everybody's time.

and yes
i was the pyro that airblasted you to the wall until you accepted your death
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Too many different weapons with different effects is just confusing

This and it doesn't help balance the game at all. While, yes OP you're correct in the sense that Vanilla/launch TF2 wasn't completely balanced, it was (IMO) miles ahead of how the game turned out. Double so with the way classes had hard counters. Now there's like 4-5 different counters for Pyro's Spychecking with "class updates" compared to the hard check of "water, or a medic healing your burn off" that launch was. I'd let Pyro "back-blast" it but that's it. Now there's like Spycicles and other bullshit that completely negate these sorts of threats.
 

Forkball

Member
I strongly disagree with the sentiment that Valve can't make good maps. Yes, 2Fort is a bad map, but something like Gravel Pit showed off how classes could utilize and traverse a map in different ways. Many of the Valve developed maps excel at giving players many options when it comes to moving around the map.
 
This and it doesn't help balance the game at all. While, yes OP you're correct in the sense that Vanilla/launch TF2 wasn't completely balanced, it was (IMO) miles ahead of how the game turned out. Double so with the way classes had hard counters. Now there's like 4-5 different counters for Pyro's Spychecking with "class updates" compared to the hard check of "water, or a medic healing your burn off" that launch was. I'd let Pyro "back-blast" it but that's it. Now there's like Spycicles and other bullshit that completely negate these sorts of threats.

I feel like this is a symptom of Valve moving towards the Highlander mindset, rather than how it was originally intended.

TF2 is designed around 6v6 and 8v8 matches with generalists (Soldier/Demo/Scout/Medic) and specialists (everyone else). You're supposed to mainly play the generalists and change to a specialist for a particular reason. However, the community didn't like how their favorite class wasn't viable 24/7, and Highlander (9v9, one of each class) overtook 6v6 as the predominant competitive scene. Suddenly, Valve has to rebalance the classes around the assumption that each class is being run full-time.

Spy was hit especially hard. He was originally supposed to be a surprise class who was run very rarely, and could be easily shut down if you knew one was there. But when Spy is run full-time, everybody always knows he's around, so they had to give him a bunch of ways to negate that.


On a related note, this is my biggest concern with Overwatch. There's obviously no way to run 21 classes in a 6v6 match, but it's pretty clear that Blizzard is attempting to balance it in such a way that every class can be viable in most situations, with the main check being hard-counters. While that's great if you don't want to main a generalist class, in a competitive format it makes the game messy and very luck-based (guess what classes they're running, and if you guess right you win). Constantly cycling between classes to try and counter the enemy isn't fun to watch or play.

- - -

I also disagree with the concept that the game had hard-counters. The only classes that really had them were Spy (Pyro) and Scout (Engineer), but it's not like you'd have a player switch to Engineer specifically to counter a Scout. And the concept that 2007 TF2 was better balanced than 2016 TF2 is objectively incorrect, sorry.
 
I've been playing TF2 since beta, both competitively and in pubs. Here are my thoughts on the matter. Be warned, there are a lot of them (this is about 3.7k hours worth of thought in one go):

The game peaked in terms of balance around the time of the first Pyro update. Pyro was pretty useless unless he had a pocket medic healing/ubering him, and the original airblast added some much needed utility. The first medic update was necessary in order to encourage people to play the class more, and also introduced Goldrush/Payload map types to the world which in many ways saved the game by focusing the action at a specific spot on the map and establishing a 'front' for both teams to bump into each other. Things became less chaotic and more organised and players found it easier to settle into a role than they had on tc_hydro or cp_well where things were less focused.

Things have gone downhill since then, with a slight improvement in the last 6 months or so. This is largely due to a practice of balancing the game based on the lowest common denominator, with consistent buffs to the lower skill cap classes (engy, pyro, heavy) to bring them into line with the higher skill cap ones (demo, scout, soldier, sniper). These buffs have not had the desired effect, as a good scout/soldier/demo player will still shit on a good engy/pyro/heavy player from a great height, but the latter classes are now infinitely more frustrating to play against. The key point here is that they're not harder to play against, they're just more obnoxious. As well as those classes, the same thinking can be applied to pretty much every unlockable weapon/item in the game.

As an example: The community servers I learned the game on had 4-5 really good Spy players who could be incredibly effective despite the weaknesses of the class. Good revolver aim, a lot of cunning and great map knowledge were their tools to consistently top score on pub maps. Then came buff after buff to Spy. Getting cloak from ammo packs reduced the need to sneak around or time your approaches to get behind the enemy team. It also made it incredibly easy to walk from one end of the map to the other completely invisible and spend the entire game sapping the enemy team's teleporter entrances. For a good year or more playing engineer became an exercise in frustration because you simply weren't allowed to have a teleporter up. The introduction of the Dead Ringer only made things worse, as teams were forced to play whack-a-mole chasing spies around and killing them multiple times. Anyone else remember shooting a spy and then immediately sprinting to the nearest ammo packs to deny them to him? Utterly obnoxious. A lot of the thought and art had been taken out of playing Spy to appeal to the 14-15 year old crowd who loved going for ambassador headshots without worrying about the objective or helping their team gain control of the map.

These suddenly obnoxious spies left a lot of Engineer/Heavy players feeling short changed, so of course they were the next two classes to get a buff. The buffs to Heavy to make him more effective at mid ranges (tighter spread) and more responsive (faster spin speed) led to the rise of an awful new presence in on payload maps: the Cart Heavy. Thanks to the free mobile dispenser the cart provides, Heavy players on offense can now go through an entire round without taking their finger off the shoot button and still be effective. It's made the game incredibly stacked in the favour of offense, and the standard has now become an absolute steamroll for the blue team until the final cap (which often have sentry gun placements that Heavy cannot deal with easily). Between this and the introduction of the level 3 teleporter, most maps are now played out pretty much entirely at the final cap point, where the red team sits in one place for 10 minutes and the blue team throws themselves into a meat grinder. There is a reason people talk about players going 'rage Heavy' when they're losing on offence.

The reasons for that meat grinder being so toxic/impossible to deal with are twofold. One is the buffs to Engineer. The introduction of the level 3 dispenser means that you can no longer trouble an engineer with longrange spam from rockets or pipes. Any damage you do to him is healed almost instantly, and you can no longer win a war of attrition by making him run out of metal. The introduction of the rescue ranger/wrangler also makes sentries far tougher to take out via positioning or ubercharge. Whereas there used to be a relationship between the Engineer and his teammates where the engy relied on his allies to stop the enemy team getting into a position to shoot his sentry gun safely, that is no longer a consideration. As a result, you'll often see 3-4 engineers and 3-4 snipers defending a last cap pretty effectively, whereas in the past this sort of immobile composition would have been crushed. On offense, the introduction of the level 3 teleporter has removed basically all consequences for death and encouraged people to play worse, getting in stupid positions rather than playing in a considered manner and trying to control parts of the map. Instead of being out of the action for ~20-30 seconds if you die, you're now only out for ~7 seconds.

Additionally, the standard of Medic play has reduced drastically, and the class is considerably weaker and as a result underplayed. The first reason for this is an indirect one. A few years ago, players started getting points for damage done as well as frags. This is a good change (since damage is more important than frags in TF2) but one thing it's done is made it very difficult to topscore as a Medic in a pub, when Medic used to get topscore every round pretty much by design as a way to encourage people to play the class. If you wanted to feel good about your score and win the adoration of your team, you went Medic. Additionally, because of the massive buffs to the Pyro airblast cooldown ubercharges are nowhere near as effective as they used to be, so one of the key elements of the class is now crippled. The other reason is that all of the alternate medibeams suck, but people persist in using them because they're seen as more fun. Hitting a really good Kritzkreig, microing the Vaccinator, or zooming around with the Quick-Fix is great fun, but all of those things are objectively worse at pushing through choke points than being invincible for 8 seconds, and the game is about pushing through chokepoints. In competitive play the Quick-Fix is so overpowered it's banned in every league, but in pub play when any enemy can randomly crit and instagib you it's pretty useless. This just means that the general standard of play is lower, more chaotic, and less of the structured/balanced game I used to enjoy.

The buffs to Pyro are also a big culprit for reducing the standard of play. The airblast was a great idea originally, giving the Pyro a self defense mechanism against long range projectile spam. Unfortunately in an effort to raise the skill cap of the hero they decided to make the class more about combination attacks and knocking players about the map. Firstly, getting airblasted is about the most frustrating experience in the world. It's nigh-undodgeable, and basically allows the Pyro to cast a stun/snare like he was a MOBA character. This has led to the airblast being the Pyro's main form of offense, rather than his flamethrower. Most players now will, on reflex, touch you with the flames to ignite you and then immediately airblast you so you can't move. This hasn't raised the skill cap of the class, it's just allowed players to shoot at stationary targets because they struggle to hit moving ones. The increased effectiveness also allows you to completely shut down an Ubercharge without requiring a great deal of skill or thought (as opposed to a Soldier knocking an ubered target around with well placed rocket), leading to far more durable defensive positions and more of that 'meat grinder' effect.

These are, in my opinion, the major reasons the game isn't as good as it used to be. It's a different experience now with more focus on solo play and random deathmatching, and less on teamwork/strategy. I basically steered clear of discussing too many of the unlocks because as a pretty good player (I've played at the top level in Australia) I see most of the unlocks as my opposition gimping themselves. The issue with the unlocks is that they're largely weaker than the stock weapons while at the same time being more annoying to fight against. This just leads to worse play and increased frustration. Before someone calls me out for being some sort of competitive elitist, know that my first two loves in this game were Pyro and Engineer, and that to this day I still think only 1% of the playerbase plays those classes to their potential (they were fine before the buffs/unlocks if you could aim your shotgun and work with your team).

That being said, the shooting/movement mechanics of the game are still great and I'll still keep playing it as my go-to shooter. I tried Overwatch but gave it up after less than a week because all 21 characters felt completely one dimensional. I just wish Valve had realised what a lucrative market E-sports was back in 2008, rather than dumbing the game down chasing the mass market. My dream is for TF3 to be released with competitive support similar to Dota2/CS: GO, but that's about as likely as the release of HL3.
 

Platy

Member
Read thread title as "Team Fortress Classic" and instanly missed Conc Maps.

Those were awesome !

I miss THAT conc on tf2 =(
 
Wow is Overwatch so good as to rival vanilla TF2? I've been ignoring it til now but that is some praise. TF2's items, loot crate fucktrocity, and pub matches really wore me thin.
 
I wish we could get a separate game. No cosmetic items, all classes get their original 1st-pass updates that introduced their first new weapons, all maps except MvM, Medieval or any other gimmick maps, just pure TF2 at its most balanced.

I played the game religiously in 2009-2011 or so. Easily my longest online multiplayer obsession and I have very fond memories of it. But sadly the game is a shadow of its former self today, even if it's surprisingly playable still. Overwatch definitely scratch that exact same itch, that ultra-polished, simplified-yet-complex team-based, class-based, charming FPS. I'm at least happy we have that today, because before that came out nothing else captured the feeling of TF2 in those years I played it at its peak.
 
That being said, the shooting/movement mechanics of the game are still great and I'll still keep playing it as my go-to shooter. I tried Overwatch but gave it up after less than a week because all 21 characters felt completely one dimensional. I just wish Valve had realised what a lucrative market E-sports was back in 2008, rather than dumbing the game down chasing the mass market. My dream is for TF3 to be released with competitive support similar to Dota2/CS: GO, but that's about as likely as the release of HL3.

Thanks for the read. I enjoyed the insight.
 
I disagree that most of the unlocks are useless. The best Highlander Pyro in the world, blf' Satan, runs Degreaser/Flare Gun/Powerjack, and every Engineer makes liberal use of the Gunslinger. No competitive Sniper runs SMG, no Medic runs Syringe Gun, and I doubt that any class but Spy runs their stock melee weapon. I played Heavy in Platinum back in 2010/2011, and I don't think I ever touched the Shotgun or Fists. Most unlocks are at least semi-useful in Highlander.

In Sixes, the vast majority of unlocks are banned because they're better than stock in that context. Engineer and Heavy would be run far more often if they had access to their unlocks, every Pyro (who would never be used without airblast) runs Degreaser and Detonator, and I highly doubt that any Scout would run their stock loadout if they had access to Soda Popper and Crit-a-Cola. This is because the unlocks are clearly balanced around Highlander, but useless they are not.
 
The only thing I can remember that people seemd to love about classic TF2 was that it had an older and more civic user base. It seemed to be the refuge of people not wanting to deal with 13 year olds on Halo.
 

ramparter

Banned
People just mean TF2 without the clutter. Without the cosmetics, without all the different weapons. Being able to see a Demoman and knowing what they're able to do, without having to worry about them being either a normal Demoman or a Demoknight or trying to see if they've got a shield and a grenade launcher or if they're wearing boots that give them extra health or if those boots are just cosmetic boots or etc etc etc

They're not literally asking for TF2 as it was at launch, they're lamenting the arbitrary complexity the game's gained over time.
This.
 
I disagree that most of the unlocks are useless. The best Highlander Pyro in the world, blf' Satan, runs Degreaser/Flare Gun/Powerjack, and every Engineer makes liberal use of the Gunslinger. No competitive Sniper runs SMG, no Medic runs Syringe Gun, and I doubt that any class but Spy runs their stock melee weapon. I played Heavy in Platinum back in 2010/2011, and I don't think I ever touched the Shotgun or Fists. Most unlocks are at least semi-useful in Highlander.

In Sixes, the vast majority of unlocks are banned because they're better than stock in that context. Engineer and Heavy would be run far more often if they had access to their unlocks, every Pyro (who would never be used without airblast) runs Degreaser and Detonator, and I highly doubt that any Scout would run their stock loadout if they had access to Soda Popper and Crit-a-Cola. This is because the unlocks are clearly balanced around Highlander, but useless they are not.

The unlocks generally trade raw/straight damage for some sort of utility effect. In 6's play they're either banned because the utility effect is so strong in the right hands/situation it breaks the game, or the damage tradeoff gimps them so hard they get ignored.

In pub play when you have 12 enemies to shoot at, you want to opt for the extra damage 9/10 times because otherwise you just can't deal with all your opponents so they're the weaker option in pub as well.

I haven't played enough Highlander to comment. It always seemed like a silly mode where teams were forced to run things like spy/engy for the sake of inclusiveness/participation when they'd trade that for another scout or soldier in a heartbeat.
 

Daffy Duck

Member
I haven't played TF2 for years, what is all this talk of updates and such?

I feel like I should check it out, my experience of it pretty much mirrors the state of the game in the orange box on 360 so I guess that was pretty vanilla.
 
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