"I Hate Donald Trump, but he might get my vote" Washington Post(Opinion)

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He doesn’t want to turn the United States into a politically correct

Nope, you don't hate Trump. You just don't want to admit that he's your guy.

When you're basing your entire vote over over politically correctness, it means it goes above you thinking "Free speech is being censored" into "I'm not allowed to joke about minorities without getting into some deep shit now".
 
You don't have to be a bigot to vote Trump. I think that it could be fatal for anti-Trumpers to insist that all Trump voters are bigots, as it won't allow them to address the actual concerns of people who aren't racist but may be inclined to vote for Trump anyway.

Similar to the Brexit situation, I don't think it's productive to paint a broad brush that the tens of millions that will likely vote for Trump are all racist bigots. Many people support him because of what he says about trade and bringing back millions of jobs. Since he's not a politician by trade, many people seem to believe him over somebody like Hillary, a career politician with lots of ethical questions over the years. Now I personally don't believe a word Trump says, but just bringing up reasons I hear on a regular basis for why people support Trump.

Please note, I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm either voting for Hillary or Gary Johnson, a decision I'll be making over the upcoming months. That said, I know a lot of Trump supporters, most of which support him for reasons that have nothing to do with race or gender.

It's not going to do much for us as a society to instantly brand every Trump supporter as a racist. Many are and their views should be mocked accordingly. That said, people who support him for other reasons shouldn't be instantly frozen out and labeled a racist or bigot. That only worsens the division we already have in this country.
 
Sometimes you cut off the nose because it can't be saved and the infection will spread. Personally, I was disappointed in Hillary's 'debt forgiveness for entrepreneurs' scheme. It's so deaf to the needs of the working class and it's also insulting to assume that the dubious possibility of ascending from the working class is attractive to members of the working class. The class problems still remain, you've simply subscribed to the delusion of neoliberal meritocracy that has, in many ways, utterly failed the working class while driving much of the middle class into the working class. In an era of massive consolidation and near monopoly and monopsony, it is the wistful thinking of yesteryear to think that small entrepreneurship will give rise to a dynamic level of competitive marketplace democracy that will somehow solve capitalism's inherent contradictions.

Although if Trump is elected, you'd see the largest unity movement imaginable opposing his proposals. In fact, it might be something that could preserve the Democratic Party a while longer.
Can you point towards one time in the last century where accelerationism worked as a progressive strategy?
 
Sometimes you cut off the nose because it can't be saved and the infection will spread. Personally, I was disappointed in Hillary's 'debt forgiveness for entrepreneurs' scheme. It's so deaf to the needs of the working class and it's also insulting to assume that the dubious possibility of ascending from the working class is attractive to members of the working class. The class problems still remain, you've simply subscribed to the delusion of neoliberal meritocracy that has, in many ways, utterly failed the working class while driving much of the middle class into the working class. In an era of massive consolidation and near monopoly and monopsony, it is the wistful thinking of yesteryear to think that small entrepreneurship will give rise to a dynamic level of competitive marketplace democracy that will somehow solve capitalism's inherent contradictions.

Although if Trump is elected, you'd see the largest unity movement imaginable opposing his proposals. In fact, it might be something that could preserve the Democratic Party a while longer.

So you're not willing to vote for Hillary because she threw a bone to the evil capitalists?

And your alternative plan is "let the worst shitheads of our time take control of all 3 branches of government so we can feel good about protesting against them together"?

Is this the fabled "accelerationism" strategy I've heard so much about?
 
I'm sorry, but no. If you're willing to vote for someone like that, that means you tolerate that mindset. No excuses.
Instead of moralizing about it, might it not be more useful to examine why such egregious flaws are being tolerated by an electorate formerly unwilling to entertain them before? Reducing them all to idiots, racists, and the hopelessly uninformed may make you feel better, but it:

A: Simply isn't true.
B: Dismisses the fact that people haven't become dumber or more racist.
C: Prevents you from finding an approach that will prevent his election.
 
Truly, absolutely, and disgustingly terrifying.

My favorite thing about Baby Boomers bitching about participation trophies is that they and their Gen X children are the ones who handed them all out.

As if I ever wanted that piece of plastic crap. I hated Little League. YOU MADE ME DO IT.

But even if you didn't feel this way, you wouldn't want to teach children the terrible lesson of how its good to participate in things. Damn, now all children are ruined.

THESE PEOPLE MAKE ME SO MAD.

Boomers introduced participation trophies because they wanted their Millennial uber-children to save the world and not be slackers working in record stores like their hated Gen X children turned out. Until they decided that they hate their Millennial kids too, then it's like participation trophies just made and handed themselves out.

So us Gen X kids are still reviled by Boomers and Millennials alike. Life is great. We're going to our room and listening to early '90s music. Leave us alone, none of you understand.


In all seriousness though, that article is fucked up and incredibly accurate of how over 50 yrs folk tend to view things if secure and established.
 
Because the Japanese govt is a shining example......

You realize Shinzo fucking Abe runs Japan right?

Abe is a buffoon and Japan has plenty of problems but my comment wasn't about politicians or governments. This is about prevailing problems with the general population in the U.S. which I really don't think is going to get better.

United States is a terrible fucking place to raise a family at the moment in comparison.
 
Members of this new silent majority, many of us front-wave baby boomers, value hard work and love the United States the way it was. We long for a bygone era when you didn’t need “safe spaces” on college campuses to shelter students from the atrocity of dissenting opinions, lest their sensibilities be offended. We have the reckless notion that college is the one place where sensibilities are supposed to be challenged and debated. Silly us.

Straw-man, hooooo.
 
Although if Trump is elected, you'd see the largest unity movement imaginable opposing his proposals. In fact, it might be something that could preserve the Democratic Party a while longer.

Unity movement among who exactly? Us white people would just get huffy for a bit, then go on about our days for the next 4 years while minority citizens suffer. You're naive if you think our complacency will evaporate under a Trump presidency.
 
He doesn’t want to turn the United States into a politically correct, free-milk-and-cookies, European-style social democracy where every kid (and adult, too) gets a trophy just for showing up.

Hellloooo, straw man.

Even if that's what the DNC wanted to do, they'd never have the votes in Congress to do it.

On the other hand, Trump can actually appoint SC justices, and would.

That's a real threat versus an imaginary one.
 
Have American politics shifted so far to the right that Hillary Clinton of all people is being accused of being too socialist?

Remember "Obama is a socialist!!" ~2008 ?
Pretty plain and simple, these people don't know jack shit about policies and economics and overall don't possess a fair amount of intellect. They're bigots and xenophobes and racist gullible morons who repeat Fox News' talking points to sound like they are well-informed and eloquent...sad.
 
Truly, absolutely, and disgustingly terrifying.

My favorite thing about Baby Boomers bitching about participation trophies is that they and their Gen X children are the ones who handed them all out.

A lot of schools are getting rid of awards all together. You can thank Millennials for that :)
 
Well, there certainly is a problem of ultra political correctness on college campus's, and on the left in general that should disturb any liberal. It's not a large enough issue to swap votes over though, especially factoring in all of Trump's other positions.
 
"I read some stories on the internet about college students eating cookies in safe space, so I'll vote for a man that revels in racism and has zero political experience"


Sounds like he's right up Trump's alley, why does he hate him?
 
You're telling me Abe-san doesn't LOVE foreigners?

Can't be worse than Trump right?

He is, don't move to Japan folks.

Trump isn't even the problem.
Half the fucking country is the problem and they always have been.
He just did it publicly and is emboldening them on all fronts.

If I decided where to live based on how competent and understanding a country's politicians were, I would probably be floating in a dingy somewhere in international waters.
 
So you're not willing to vote for Hillary because she threw a bone to the evil capitalists?

And your alternative plan is "let the worst shitheads of our time take control of all 3 branches of government so we can feel good about protesting against them together"?

Is this the fabled "accelerationism" strategy I've heard so much about?
I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. It's just that simple. It's not that she threw a bone to capitalists, it's that from an economic and class standpoint, there aren't two alternatives. All mainstream parties are essentially neoliberal capitalist parties now. Sabotage may be the only defense. The system and worldview have lost legitimacy, at the very least as far as neoliberal capitalism goes.

I'm not young. I'm not stupid. I'm not racist. I have been a lifelong Democrat voter.

As for 'Accelerationism', I don't believe in the concept here simply because I think that the anti-Trump alliance would be very limited to stopping Trump and would not amount to much outside of blocking his proposals. I am hopeful that TPP would be blocked, though.

All that said, I'm likely voting Stein. Perhaps I'll vote for the Socialist Equality Party candidates if they're on the ballot in my state. The only way I'd vote Trump is if it looks very close and I feel that I need to in order to prevent a Hillary presidency.
 
Members of this new silent majority, many of us front-wave baby boomers, value hard work and love the United States the way it was. We long for a bygone era when you didn’t need “safe spaces” on college campuses to shelter students from the atrocity of dissenting opinions, lest their sensibilities be offended. We have the reckless notion that college is the one place where sensibilities are supposed to be challenged and debated. Silly us.

If you use this as your basis for your vote for the president of the United States, you just might be a fucking idiot.
 
Accelerationism has never worked, and it would be foolish for those on the left to advocate for it.

You know who champions Accelerationism? People too ignorant to realize what would happen and those with privilege that would insulate them from the effects.
 
You know who champions Accelerationism? People too ignorant to realize what would happen and those with privilege that would insulate them from the effects.

Hmmm.........

All that said, I'm likely voting Stein. Perhaps I'll vote for the Socialist Equality Party candidates if they're on the ballot in my state. The only way I'd vote Trump is if it looks very close and I feel that I need to in order to prevent a Hillary presidency.
 
Unity movement among who exactly? Us white people would just get huffy for a bit, then go on about our days for the next 4 years while minority citizens suffer. You're naive if you think our complacency will evaporate under a Trump presidency.
I think that neoliberal establishment types will band together with identity politics types and prevent many of his most damaging proposals. I don't think a wall happens. I don't think mass deportations happen.

The Supreme Court nominations are troubling, but TPP is worse - if only barely, from my perspective.
 
I think if Democrats lose to Trump their take away won't be "we need to be less like Trump", it'll be "we need to be more like Trump".
 
I think that neoliberal establishment types will band together with identity politics types and prevent many of his most damaging proposals. I don't think a wall happens. I don't think mass deportations happen.

The Supreme Court nominations are troubling, but TPP is worse - if only barely, from my perspective.

You don't think it will happen, but you if you vote for Trump you support it happening.
 
All that said, I'm likely voting Stein. Perhaps I'll vote for the Socialist Equality Party candidates if they're on the ballot in my state. The only way I'd vote Trump is if it looks very close and I feel that I need to in order to prevent a Hillary presidency.

Must be nice!
 
Members of this new silent majority, many of us front-wave baby boomers
Of fucking course.

The generation that had the land of milk and honey handed to them and then burned it to the ground are the ones complaining that things have changed.
 
"I wish we could go back to the days where I put stars on people to say that they were bought by The Jews" is the only #take from "I'm not a Trump supporter, but" I do more than yawn at.

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I think that neoliberal establishment types will band together with identity politics types and prevent many of his most damaging proposals. I don't think a wall happens. I don't think mass deportations happen.

The Supreme Court nominations are troubling, but TPP is worse - if only barely, from my perspective.

Ok yeah, that's crazy.
 
I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. It's just that simple. It's not that she threw a bone to capitalists, it's that from an economic and class standpoint, there aren't two alternatives. All mainstream parties are essentially neoliberal capitalist parties now. Sabotage may be the only defense. The system and worldview have lost legitimacy, at the very least as far as neoliberal capitalism goes.

I'm not young. I'm not stupid. I'm not racist. I have been a lifelong Democrat voter.

As for 'Accelerationism', I don't believe in the concept here simply because I think that the anti-Trump alliance would be very limited to stopping Trump and would not amount to much outside of blocking his proposals. I am hopeful that TPP would be blocked, though.

All that said, I'm likely voting Stein. Perhaps I'll vote for the Socialist Equality Party candidates if they're on the ballot in my state. The only way I'd vote Trump is if it looks very close and I feel that I need to in order to prevent a Hillary presidency.

And this is how we're gonna get a Brexit like situation over here
 
Instead of moralizing about it, might it not be more useful to examine why such egregious flaws are being tolerated by an electorate formerly unwilling to entertain them before? Reducing them all to idiots, racists, and the hopelessly uninformed may make you feel better, but it:

A: Simply isn't true.
B: Dismisses the fact that people haven't become dumber or more racist.

Yes it is, and people are just more open about it now. There has always been a large percentage of totally dumbass, backwards white people in America.
 
I think that neoliberal establishment types will band together with identity politics types and prevent many of his most damaging proposals. I don't think a wall happens. I don't think mass deportations happen.

The Supreme Court nominations are troubling, but TPP is worse - if only barely, from my perspective.

Neoliberal establishment Republicans will vote against the TPP and sticking it to the working class? You realize the GOP will have control of all 3 branches of the federal government, plus most of the state governments?

What exactly are "identity politics" types going to do other than stand with signs in the street and get tear-gassed and shot?

It's hilarious how little self-awareness the white working class has.
 
An uncomfortable truth but a truth nonetheless: There a lot of people that will vote for Trump but won't say so publicly.

Don't blame me, I'm voting for Kodos...
 
Reversing Obergefell, Roe, gutting the VRA, destroying the rest of campaign finance reform and affirmative action might be 'troubling', but we sure showed Hillary, right? Class struggle!!
 
"I Hate Donald Trump, But..." is pretty thin code for "I Like Donald Trump, But Won't Admit It."

You do not vote for that man unless you prescribe to his brand of racist, anti-intellectual, destructive garbage. You are either onboard, or off.

So true. I know people i work with who says they don't like trump but i know they will vote for him.
 
I think that neoliberal establishment types will band together with identity politics types and prevent many of his most damaging proposals. I don't think a wall happens. I don't think mass deportations happen.

The Supreme Court nominations are troubling, but TPP is worse - if only barely, from my perspective.

What exactly about TPP is more troubling to you than conservatives controlling all three branches and jeopardizing the rights of many?
 
As long as you're a white, well to do elderly male then you'll probably survive the Trumpocalypse. Everyone else however is fucked.

Seriously he even admits that there's no real indication about what the hell Trump will do but it's better than milk and cookies? I LOVE milk and cookies.
 
Could you elaborate further, when you say you're fed up with political correctness you mean?

One of the biggest that directly affects me is the hardcore push the trans community has been trying to make. The "proper" terms and language have been changing so often that I don't even know what to call myself and be guaranteed not to offend someone. There's become too much of a sense of "you MUST know everything already, you can't ask question, you can't make mistakes," and I fear that the stronger that gets, the more people will decide it's just easier to not even try to understand us.

In another factor, there's a sense that you're never allowed to make fun of us in any way, and trans characters are scrutinized to a ridiculous degree whenever they exist, both of which are leading to a kind of "screw even trying" attitude among some that I think will be worse for our representation instead of better.

This may be one that some might argue doesn't fit under "political correctness"—I think it actually does—and that's the bathroom issue. Instead of being able to say that bathrooms and locker rooms are two separate things, there's been an attitude that you're anti-trans if you don't throw the two together, and I absolutely believe that's done more harm than good in terms of acceptance and sowing the seeds of bathroom-related transphobia.

Those are a few specific points. I also worry about the push you're seeing some colleges go through currently, where certain opposite opinions are in danger of being shut down / pushed aside. "Political correctness" isn't the best way to express my hesitations / disagreements because it tends to be a lazy way for someone to say "I don't like having to care about things that don't affect me". But I think part of what's happening is that we are losing "the other side" in too many situations, and having someone there to challenge our beliefs and opinions is vitally important to us having a healthy outlook on life.

Again, going back to the trans thing for a moment, I think the worst thing I can do is try to force someone to respect me or be polite to me or change their attitude about who I am, because that causes people to quickly switch to being defensive and shuts down their ability to honestly consider other ideas.

And I think there's a question of "picking your battles". One of the earliest aspects of "political correctness" I can remember is when suddenly we had to call mailmen "postal carriers" or firemen "firefighters" and so on. My time spent admonishing someone for calling me a tranny could be far better spent trying to show them I'm just a regular human being like they are. So, for me, that's part of it too—an overall feeling that we've let ourselves get bogged down in the smaller things and taking effort away from the bigger ones. It's like deciding that you aren't going to get mad at your kid for every little thing they do, because you know if you do, they'll just start tuning you out at some point.

I think "political correctness" has turned into "oh god I'm terrified of making a mistake". I want people to be able to make mistakes (which is not at all the same thing as people being offensive on purpose).
 
Protip: Don't mock those on the other side of the aisle then complain about the polarization of american politics.

You are the problem.
 
The Republicans love TPP.

Once Obama is out they'll "rebrand" it and Trump would do nothing to oppose it.

Their opposition now is only because everything Obama does must be opposed.
 
I think that neoliberal establishment types will band together with identity politics types and prevent many of his most damaging proposals. I don't think a wall happens. I don't think mass deportations happen.

The Supreme Court nominations are troubling, but TPP is worse - if only barely, from my perspective.

How is some shitty free trade stuff worse than a Supreme Court likely destroying the voting rights act?
 
Hilary is unlikable imo. Ppl are desperiate for change in Washington and b.c they don't agree with the status quo. Simply as a fuck you to the status quo, ppl are going to vote for Trump.

I dont like Hilary or Trump. Fuck em both but I am Canadian, I love Justin
 
The Republicans love TPP.

Once Obama is out they'll "rebrand" it and Trump would do nothing to oppose it.

Their opposition now is only because everything Obama does must be opposed.

Trump would even be able to sell it saying he worked his magic on it and now it's a fabulous deal that benefits the United States immensely and will bring back millions of jobs because he's so smart etc etc
 
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