Oh yeah they're both evil for sure, but Mike's actions didn't ever make my stomach turn like some of the stuff Walt did. I don't see a scenario where Mike would have poisoned a child for his own financial gain.
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I Just Finished Breaking Bad Last Night, Can't Fathom The Skyler Hate (Spoilers)
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Oh yeah they're both evil for sure, but Mike's actions didn't ever make my stomach turn like some of the stuff Walt did. I don't see a scenario where Mike would have poisoned a child for his own financial gain.
la flama blanca
Banned
Sure, she was unlikeable, we're focusing on the HATRED people express for her. I think she was meant to be somewhat critical, especially since it's been made clear that Walt has already made very selfish decisions before he went full meth.
I got the same feeling. Not to say he wasn't also doing it to fuel his ego, but I think it wasn't entirely one or the other.
Why not? He literally kills for a far less substantial sum of money Walt's getting without a problem. I think if Gus would have ordered it, he would have done it.
PontyfaxJr
Member
I'm not disagreeing with you, but did Mike kill anyone who wasn't a criminal? I know Walt poisoned Brock and Ted shot that kid on the bike but I can't remember Mike killing anyone who wasn't "in the game" so to speak. You could argue that the drug trade kills people I guess, but I feel like Mike could almost justify everything he did. At least a lot more so than Walt would be able to.
I'm biased though because Mike is a cool dude.
Yes, it's my interpretation of the show.
I didn't realise personal interpretations of shows were so frowned upon.
It feels like Walter did it both for his family and for himself. Like he said at the end of the series, he was good at it and it brought him great pressure. This is a person who has an immense ego and being the best at something was something that he couldn't stop doing. However, the only reason he even found out he was good at it was because he needed the money for his family.
I imagine that all throughout the show these were his inner thought process, "What I'm doing is wrong and dangerous and even though I enjoy it, it's justifiable because I'm helping out my family. This inner lie was finally taken away from him when Skyler took him to the storage garage and showed him all the money.
"how big does this pile have to be?"
In that moment Walter knew that he was just doing it out pleasure, he no longer had to do it for his family, his family had more money than they could spend.
I imagine that all throughout the show these were his inner thought process, "What I'm doing is wrong and dangerous and even though I enjoy it, it's justifiable because I'm helping out my family. This inner lie was finally taken away from him when Skyler took him to the storage garage and showed him all the money.
"how big does this pile have to be?"
In that moment Walter knew that he was just doing it out pleasure, he no longer had to do it for his family, his family had more money than they could spend.
Skyler is a victim though...
LegendofJoe
Member
I felt really sorry for Walt and Skylar's children. Walt I had zero sympathy for by the end and I had some sympathy for Skylar. The true tragic character of the show though was clearly Jesse.
Walt ruined every aspect of his life and took everything from him. He made it out alive, but there is no way he'd ever come back from the hell he went through emotionally and mentally. It was a bitter, bitter ending for sure.
Walt ruined every aspect of his life and took everything from him. He made it out alive, but there is no way he'd ever come back from the hell he went through emotionally and mentally. It was a bitter, bitter ending for sure.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
In defense of the haters, and it's the only defense, a lot of Skylar's seasons were built around tension and her being either being on attack mode or bottling up her anger for an eventual blowup. We didn't get enough scenes of her being cool or nice in her own right. That's on Vince.
Everything else is Crime Drama Wife Syndrome. If you ain't down, you're the worst.
Nevermind liked that mantra.
Everything else is Crime Drama Wife Syndrome. If you ain't down, you're the worst.
Nevermind liked that mantra.
The show blatantly says you are completely wrong in your "interpretation", Walt himself ADMITS that he didn't do it for his family. There's no room for interpretation in that sense.
M0nochromatic
Member
His final interactions with Jesse and Walt Junior feel similar as well. I think that's partly what makes those moments strong, is the ambiguity to what drives Walt at the end since he's basically failed and lost. There's enough complexity and nuance up to that point, for it to be narcissism or genuine caring either way.
I didn't like Skyler from the start. She never seemed to truly care about Walt, she was shitty and domineering to him. He should have left rather than starting to cook meth, but for some reason he had these ideas about having to do right by his family and felt he couldn't. They destroyed each other.
I also think the Walt hate is overblown. If you trace his actions, step by step, in the context in which he was presented them... most are reasonable.
I also think the Walt hate is overblown. If you trace his actions, step by step, in the context in which he was presented them... most are reasonable.
Walt realized it before his most ardent defenders did. The debates in the Breaking Bad topics were hilarious. I'm glad it was affirmed in the show definitively since so many couldn't see the giant neon paint pointing to that very thing.
Griss said:
None of his actions were reasonable the very second he turned down that job/payment for his cancer from Grey Matter, which was extremely early in the show. Not even one single action. But HIS PRIDE, ya know...
Skylar did a bunch of things that made the character questionable, but her moral dilemma is understandable. A lot of people are reluctant to get involved in crime, and I can't blame her for having a problem with that.
I think a lot of people put a lot of faith in the "for better or worse" motto and expect their spouse to support them no matter what. Even if that involves criminal behavior.
I think a lot of people put a lot of faith in the "for better or worse" motto and expect their spouse to support them no matter what. Even if that involves criminal behavior.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Come on man, Brock? The plane? Jesse's GF? Blowing up the hospital? Those are some fucked up shit.
By the time "IFT" happened he sold lots of drugs, killed 2 people (those dudes Jesse knew in the beginning) and allowed another to die (Jane). Also by the time IFT happened, Skyler figured this out (the drugs anyway), kicked him out of the house and handed him divorce papers.
I don't think so, but did Walt directly? Jane and the airplane crash are kindas, imo.
He had multiple chances to get out, especially when he had earned enough money to leave his family.
As the old saying goes, don't post your opinion if you don't want it to disagreed with.
D1renegade
Member
This...
And she helped him commit crimes, then has the nerve to get mad when learning about Walt.
He should have taken that job in an emotionless vacuum, sure. But he thinks he's got a year to live, and to spend his last year working with people he can't stand who essentially ruined his life and for pity money? I wouldn't.
I always wonder what Walt was 'supposed' to do. Just live out the rest of his sorry days as a brow-beaten, poor, disrespected dude so that no one would be upset with him before he passed? Why would you choose to do that? There's no afterlife, you've only got one shot at life. So he decided he had nothing to lose and would start taking from people more than he gave. I found it hard to blame him; I was always sympathetic to him until sometime around season 4 when his ego went supernova.
He wasn't responsible for the plane, not 0.0001%. Brock he knew would be just fine. Jesse's GF killed herself with her drug addiction and idiocy. Blowing up the hospital was a matter of necessity to kill a psychopathic drug lord and save multiple lives including his own. He did it in such a way that no one else was killed.
Eh, you'd have to do better than those.
cubicle47b
Member
It's been a while, but I remember not liking anyone on the show during the first season except the son.
More_Badass
Member
Going to help then deliberately stopping to stand there and just watch her die isn't exactly a "kinda"
Well...yeah. That's exactly what he should have done
And they were offering to pay for his treatment. If he had really cared about his family, any sane person would take that offer
You are making justifications for Skyler cheating on Walter. It's no where near the same scale as those trying to justify all the immensely shitty things Walter did, but you are doing the same thing.
You're blaming Skyler's cheating on Walter.
She gave him money to keep herself out of jail, and you can't seriously compare her crimes to Walt's
Yeah so of course the alternative is to become an abominable monster who poisons kids, murders people and brings down his entire family with his selfish, ego-driven goals.
He absolutely should have taken that job, and the only reason he didn't was his pride. Pride is not a good excuse to destroy everything you have because you have "one year to live." And frankly, judging by the show, it was likely Walt's fault his relationship with Grey Matter faltered, and they were probably offering that job in good faith. The show makes it explicitly clear that there is something fundamentally wrong with Walt as a person. It was WALT who couldn't bare to let Hank think someone else made the blue meth, and thus put Hank back on the trail. If you went on those viral sites, there was all sorts of references to him basically being a sociopath.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Is it really cheating when you've handed your partner divorce papers? Sure it may be in the eyes of the law, but to me she had already ended the relationship (regardless of whether she went back on it later).
She was being emotionally and physically manipulated by Walt to prevent her from leaving him so she did something that she hoped would cause him to leave her.
Super Nothing
Member
He missed the birth of his daughter to make a meth deal. Dude wasn't exactly putting family first.
I definitely don't think it's as black and white as people say.
Didn't die. Didn't turn her over but she would have died anyways causing the plane crash. did anyone in the hospital die besides gus and the old guy?
You totally missed Walt's character. It's plainly obvious, from the beginning, he isn't "doing it all for this family". That's just the initial motivation and excuse he used. Along the series he puts his family at risk and jeopardizes his entire operation just to satisfy his ego with stupid decisions fully knowing it's consequences. At the end the even admits to it.
Pretty strange of you to just ignore all that and say it like he's a good guy at the wrong place, just protecting his family by the wrong means.
Sure, the guy had a bit of an ego. I don't doubt that. But if he had just been left to cook meth in peace he never would have killed a single soul - he wasn't a natural killer or bad person. Being involved in the drug trade brought multiple psychopaths into his life who fucked shit up, and cooking meth being illegal obviously brought the police down on him, which was unfortunate, especially for ol' Hank. But if other people didn't fuck with Walt, I genuinely believe he wouldn't have fucked with them.
Dude just wanted to cook drugs and become a millionaire, that's all.
If Skyler had let her husband function as a normal human being maybe he wouldn't have done any of it at all. It's her fault more than his, imo.
He started but then he was quickly given an out (full health insurance that I'd love to have) and he outright didn't take it. I'm sorry, but the show did that on purpose to show that it wasn't him having to make meth to cover his cancer. And yet people still excuse him for what he did. I don't care if it hurt his pride. The fact that he'd rather sell a drug that ruined people's lives and go down the path he did showed what kind of person he truly was. The moment he made that decision I lost any sort of pity for him (and I do think the show was already hinting that he really wasn't as good/nice a guy as he pretended to be when he worried about the law. he was lawful, he was not good. That whole outburst at the douchebags making comments about his son the first/second season at the assholes was purposely designed to be almost sympathetic but to really get a glimpse into his real personality when he wasn't holding back. It was pretty brilliantly done honestly. They get "victims" who we don't feel sorry for and feel like they deserve that kind of wrath but when you look at how he behaved there is something disturbing about it regardless of if they deserved it. It's subtle enough I'm sure some people are going to say I'm overreacting but I'm absolutely sure the show wasn't just showing him rightously (sp?) outbursting against people).
Honestly, Breaking Bad is an interesting show for me because it's one of the very few shows where I can outright detest the main character and still want to watch it.
More_Badass
Member
You can't be serious. Are you sure we watched the same show?
I maaaay be being slightly unserious. Just a tad. I liked Walt and didn't like Skylar, but even I don't believe that it was her fault, obviously. That line was a throwaway.
But I still believe that Walt wasn't the monster that others make him out to be and that many of his actions were justified.
A lot of it comes down to how evil you think cooking drugs is.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
So you're saying that poisoning a kid is ok as long as he don't die? Letting someone die is reasonable when it's her own fault as well as blowing an hospital?
la flama blanca
Banned
daninthemix
Member
Sometimes a fictional character just rubs you the wrong way. Skylar did that for me. I found her totally obnoxious. A more extreme example is the character of Paige from Season 3 of The Americans, who is so annoying I probably won't watch the series any more.
Super Nothing
Member
We don't really know what happened with the Schwartzes. Walt claims that they ruined his life, but that's just his side of the story. Gretchen says that Walt just packed his shit and left one day. He never really explained why. He took a buy out of his share of Grey Matter, which was essentially worthless at the time, for a few thousand dollars. We know that later Walt becomes extremely bitter about the success that Grey Matter achieves, but there's no evidence that they actually ruined his life. Judging by his actions in the show, it's just as likely that Walt destroyed the relationship.
kavanf1
Member
The show's own creator pitched Walter White and the show as being about "turning Mr Rogers into Scarface". And people ended up loving Walt for the same reasons as they loved Tony Montana, despite them being murderous drug-dealing megalomaniacs.
What the show did so well was to show a normal man's descent into becoming something abominable. But there's no doubt that he ended the show a monstrous human being.
The difference is (and it doesn't make one more right tahn the other, but it does make one more disturbing than the other), with Mike it's purely a professional/doing my job reason. With Walt, it's a show I'm lord over you all/no one can touch me reason <- at least in the end when he's acting more his true personality. The less he held back the more he truly showed of himself in that show. I disagree with above poster that Walt started out a normal/nice guy. I think he started out a lawful guy. But I think the show showed how he truly showed his personality when he started less worrying about the law and didn't feel like he had to hold back anymore).
LegendofJoe
Member
I agree that pride is no excuse for his actions. But the show did a reality good job showing us the extent to which his pride and ego had been damaged by having to work at a demeaning side job just to make ends meet. He was someone who had enormous potential and a seemingly very bright future ahead of him when he was younger, but it never materialized.
All of the disappointment and bitterness built up over time culminating with his cancer diagnosis and him going off the rails. However, he ended up taking things way past the point where his ego and pride should have been restored. He was clearly becoming a sociopathic maniac pretty early on in the show, but I guess some people just held on to his initial characterization when he was still very sympathetic.
You make it sound like he just wanted to bake organic cookies or something. Just wanting to cook and sell lots of meth is not a victimless crime. The industry would be there whether or not he was a part of it, but that doesn't justify his participation.
"I'm dying, so fuck everyone else, except for my family. Scratch that, fuck my family too, they made me feel impotent."
Your sense of morality seems a little askew.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Skylar was okay. She wasn't especially UNLIKABLE, but they didn't do anything with her that made her LIKABLE either, if that makes sense?
The only people I thought were UNLIKABLE in the show were Skyar's sister and Walt's son. They were just fucking obnoxious douchebags. Sky tried to do the right thing or tried to help her man (eventually) the overwhelming majority of the time. She was down for the cause until Walt fucked it up. She didn't deserve anything that happened to her along the way and I think the culture's infatuation with criminals "winning" speaks to why Skylar was disliked more than anything.
The only people I thought were UNLIKABLE in the show were Skyar's sister and Walt's son. They were just fucking obnoxious douchebags. Sky tried to do the right thing or tried to help her man (eventually) the overwhelming majority of the time. She was down for the cause until Walt fucked it up. She didn't deserve anything that happened to her along the way and I think the culture's infatuation with criminals "winning" speaks to why Skylar was disliked more than anything.
real shit. fuck walt.
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