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"I need a New PC!" 2012 Thread. 22nm+28nm, Tri-Gate, and reading the OP. [Part 1]

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Lanbeast

Member
Could you guys suggest a motherboard/processor combo for me?

I said once before, but I'm building my aunt and uncle a computer and they don't need anything ridiculous. They're not going to use it for any gaming at all, mostly just typing documents, scanning photos, and browsing the web. I want to get something that will last, though, since they're older and this will be the only computer they ever buy. They're also kinda impatient so I want to get them something that will be snappy.

I'm going to get them a 24" monitor and I understand everything else pretty well, but MOBOS and CPUs are still a little over my head.
 

Karmum

Banned
Well the MSI GTX 460 came in today and after a little headache it's hooked up except...well, one question.

Unless I'm doing it wrong, just want to know if it's even possible for the EVGA GTX 460 (1370) to SLI with the MSI GTX 460. They both show up but even if I hit sync it doesn't look like they are.
 

scogoth

Member
Well the MSI GTX 460 came in today and after a little headache it's hooked up except...well, one question.

Unless I'm doing it wrong, just want to know if it's even possible for the EVGA GTX 460 (1370) to SLI with the MSI GTX 460. They both show up but even if I hit sync it doesn't look like they are.

Yes if they they have to same amount of RAM and similar clocks. The faster card will lower it's clocks to match the other one. If you going into the nvidia control panel and you slecet maximum performance in the SLI section then they are ready to go.
 

Arsin

Member
Alright tech Gaf two questions:

1) Is it worth it to have a dedicated Physx card? If so which card would be a good buy?

2) I am going to be getting a new 24 inch, 120hz monitor pretty soon here and I have some questions about HDMI. I heard somewhere that HDMI only works at 60hz, which seems really weird to me, true or not true? If that is true what kind of connection would I need to use to get the most out of it?

Thanks in advance for the help.
 

Karmum

Banned
Yes if they they have to same amount of RAM and similar clocks. The faster card will lower it's clocks to match the other one. If you going into the nvidia control panel and you slecet maximum performance in the SLI section then they are ready to go.
Well, this is good. I guess I'm doing something else wrong since it's not even an option in the NVIDIA control panel.
 
Hey guys, have a question. My mom wants to buy a laptop so she can take it to different rooms or with her when she is out. She wants it to have an intel I5/I7 CPU with an ok GPU so when my brother comes over so he can play World of Warcraft. It has to cost as much as £650

What's the question? WoW has really low requirements so an i5/i7 and any dedicated graphics card is overkill. Heck, WoW can run on integrated graphics.

Might as well invest in a lightweight laptop with good battery life instead.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
Alright tech Gaf two questions:

1) Is it worth it to have a dedicated Physx card? If so which card would be a good buy?

2) I am going to be getting a new 24 inch, 120hz monitor pretty soon here and I have some questions about HDMI. I heard somewhere that HDMI only works at 60hz, which seems really weird to me, true or not true? If that is true what kind of connection would I need to use to get the most out of it?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Yes. HDMI limits you to 60hz. To do 120hz, you'll either need to use dual DVI or display port. A lot of monitors have traditionally limited you to one or the other. Those that were aligned with Nvidia did 120hz using D-DVI and those who were aligned with AMD did 120hz using display port.

Some have thankfully begun doing both D-DVI and display port. And obviously with Nvidia beginning to support display port, hopefully it means an end to the games and all monitors will support 120hz no matter which video card you're using in the future.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
What's the question? WoW has really low requirements so an i5/i7 and any dedicated graphics card is overkill. Heck, WoW can run on integrated graphics.

Might as well invest in a lightweight laptop with good battery life instead.

Should have worded it better :/ which CPU is more "future proof" in the sense that she want it to last at least 4-5 years without buying a new laptop. My old laptop that has a C2D 1.2 GHz doesn't cut it and she doesn't want the same to happen to hers. So is a 2.5ghz dual core I5 DM worse than a 2.2ghz quad core I7 QM?

Edit: forgot to add that she wants to use Photoshop CS5 on it
 
Alright tech Gaf two questions:

1) Is it worth it to have a dedicated Physx card? If so which card would be a good buy?

No. Dedicated PhysX is pretty much worthless. As long as you've got a decently powerful GPU (560 Ti/448/570/580) you'll be fine running it on that single GPU without dedicated PhysX.
 

Coldsnap

Member
So i hooked up my girlfriends studio monitors to my computer through RCA to 1/8" on my motherboard, there's a terrible grounding noise / buzz. What's my options to remove this? She also has a USB audio interface machine thing that could work.
 
No. Dedicated PhysX is pretty much worthless. As long as you've got a decently powerful GPU (560 Ti/448/570/580) you'll be fine running it on that single GPU without dedicated PhysX.

as I found out the hard way. Batman and Alice run awful on SLI 580 but with dedicating one of them to physX I get 60 frames on both (after tweaking the .ini file on Alice)
 

Biggzy

Member
So i hooked up my girlfriends studio monitors to my computer through RCA to 1/8" on my motherboard, there's a terrible grounding noise / buzz. What's my options to remove this? She also has a USB audio interface machine thing that could work.

It could be electrical interference from your PSU. I have the same problem when I plug in my headphones to my monitor.
 

scogoth

Member
VIDEO CONNECTOR GUIDE (1080P, 3D, 120Hz, 4K)

I've been lots of questions on different video connectors and what all do. There are also an increasing number of people who are gaming on 3D display, 120Hz display and 3D TVs who don't understand what cables they should be using. So here's a guide on the different cable types and what they are used for. I am omitting analog cables (VGA, component, etc) because they are deprecated, inferior, and you shouldn't be using them.

*Most of this knowledge comes from reading Wikipedia and various blog posts and by no means is a full and technically accurate description of cabling*

If there is anything incorrect or missing please PM me so I can update this guide. This guide is geared towards gamers and enthusiasts, HTPC guys this is not in depth enough for you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terms

Refresh Rate (Hertz)
This a term that is very important to displays and their associated cables and connectors. The refresh rate of a display is how often an picture is drawn on the screen. This is measured in Hertz which is the number of cycles per second. For gamers the holy grail of performance is frames per second, this is closely related to refresh rate. Frames per second is the number of pictures a computer generates for display and the refresh rate is how often a picture can be updated with the frames generated.​

Interlaced/Progressive Scan
You will often see p appended to resolution sizes which indicates a progressive scan resolution. A display does not draw all the pixels on your screen at once, it draws them by lines one by one top to bottom. Progressive scan is the normal way of drawing an image by drawing line 1 then line 2 and so on. In bandwidth constrained display technology there is an inferior and alternate method called interlaced. This effectively halves the required bandwidth by alternating which lines it draws, e.g. all the odd lines first then all the even lines.

120Hz Monitors
mkenyons new favourite baby. 120Hz monitors are gaining popularity among gamers by providing a faster refresh rate. Increasing the refresh rate to 120Hz moves it past what the normal human is capable of seeing making the image fliud and consistent and eliminating issues with image tearing and reducing monitor response times. Although current 120Hz displays do not have good colour accuracy and are expensive they are very popular and will eventually became mainstream for gamers.​

Digital Video Interface(DVI)

181px-DVI_Connector_Types.svg.png


DVI-I (Single Link)
DVI integrated connector. This supports both DVI output and analog output to VGA via a passive adapter. The DVI connector only supports single link connections, see below for details.​

DVI-I (Dual Link)
DVI integrated connector. This supports both DVI output and analog output to VGA via a passive adapter. This is the most common output for GPUs. This DVI connector supports dual link with a dual link DVI cable, see below for details.​

DVI-D (Single Link)
DVI Digital connector. This only supports DVI output and will not work with VGA adapter. This is a common input connector for regular 1080p monitors.​

DVI-D (Dual Link)
DVI Digital connector. This only supports DVI output and will not work with VGA adapter. This is a common input connector for 120Hz/3D 1080p monitors and 2560x1600 monitors.​

DVI-A
DVI Analog. This only supports VGA output through adapter. It is very uncommon to see this connector.​

Single-Link vs Dual-Link

There are two broad groups of DVI connectors, single link and dual link. Dual link connectors and there matching cables effectively double the bandwith of single link cables. This allow them to carry either twice as many pixels for high resolution displays or deliver the images twice as fast for 120Hz or 3D monitors.

A single link cable will work with a dual link port but a dual link cable WILL NOT work with a single link port.

A dual link cable and port are required for 120Hz, 3D and 2560x1600 resolutions

Limitations
Single-Link = 1920x1200 at 60Hz max
Dual-Link = 2560x1600 at 60Hz or 1920x1200 at 120Hz (as a general guideline, the actually limitations are complicated)​

Example display modes (single link):
  • 1,920 × 1,080 @ 60 Hz
  • 1,600 × 1,200 @ 60 Hz
  • 1,920 × 1,200 @ 60 Hz
  • 1440 × 900 @ 60 Hz

Example display modes (dual link):
  • 2,048 × 1,536 @ 75 Hz
  • 1,920 × 1,080 @ 120 Hz
  • 1,920 × 1,080 @ 60 Hz 3D
  • 1,920 × 1,200 @ 120 Hz
  • 1,920 × 1,200 @ 60 Hz 3D
  • 2,560 × 1,600 @ 60 Hz
  • 2,560 × 1,600 @ 60 Hz
  • 3,840 × 2,400 @ 33 Hz



HDMI

High Definition Multimedia interface was created using the same electrical signaling as single link DVI-Digitial with integrated audio. HDMI has evolved through various specifications over the years adding new features and unfortunately confusing consumer by introducing two different types of cables.

Versions
Version 1.0-1.2
The first implementation of HDMI which support up to 1920x1080 progressive scan video at 60Hz. In addition to this HDMI added CEC commands to allow control of consumer devices over HDMI​

Version 1.3
This version of HDMI added bit streaming of audio for external decoding of DTS-HD Master Audio and DolbyTrueHD audio. It also added new colour space options and new CEC updates. At this point HDMI also specified too types of cables, category 1 and category 2. See below for more details​

Version 1.4
This version greatly changed the HDMI specifications by increasing resolution support to 3840x2160 at 30Hz (Quad HD) and 4096x2160 at 24Hz (4K resolution). They also added Ethernet over HDMI, 3D over HDMI and the new micro HDMI connector.​

Category of Cables

Pre-Version 1.3
These cables support 1080p at 60Hz and may or may not work with version 1.3 specifications of bitstreaming and increased colour space.​
Category 1 (Marketed as Standard Cables after Version 1.3)
These cables support 1080i or 720p at 60Hz​
Category 2 (Marketed as High Speed Cables after Version 1.3)
These cables support 1080p, 4K, 3D and full colour space​

3D Support
Many of you have 3D TVs and would like to use them for gaming. This section explains the limitations of HDMI 3D versus Dual-Link DVI and DisplayPort solutions. 3D support is fully supported by HDMI but it is not as high performance as other implementations. In order to display 3D the screen and source device need to display two distinct images to each eye to trick you into seeing 3D. In order to do that twice as much information needs to be display at the same time compared to a 2D image. The maximum specifications of HDMI did not have this in mind and were set at 1080p60Hz. In order to show 3D your TV needs to display two 1080P images at half the normal speed to each eye giving you effectively a 1080p30Hz image. This is different then DVI and DisplayPort 3D which can display 1080p120Hz or 1080p60Hz in 3D. For movie content this isn't an issue as 30Hz is more than movies normally show at (24Hz) but in fast paced gamin it is not ideal. Be aware of this if you are interested in 3D over HDMI.​

Example Display Modes

480p @ 60Hz
720p @ 60Hz
1080p @ 60Hz
1080p @ 30Hz 3D (High Speed HDMI v1.4)
4096p @ 24Hz (High Speed HDMI v1.4)


DisplayPort

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taking a break will finish up later. mkenyon before I write the displayport section are they're any advantages/disadvantages/hiccups you've seen in using them with your 120Hz monitors?
 

scogoth

Member
Alright tech Gaf two questions:

1) Is it worth it to have a dedicated Physx card? If so which card would be a good buy?

2) I am going to be getting a new 24 inch, 120hz monitor pretty soon here and I have some questions about HDMI. I heard somewhere that HDMI only works at 60hz, which seems really weird to me, true or not true? If that is true what kind of connection would I need to use to get the most out of it?

Thanks in advance for the help.

LOL see my post above, I guess I started the guide at the right time.
 
I got a 3D monitor a year or so back. I don't use 3D that much, but the 120hz that came with it was a Trojan Horse of awesome. Damn setting has spoiled me.
 

Arsin

Member
Yes. HDMI limits you to 60hz. To do 120hz, you'll either need to use dual DVI or display port. A lot of monitors have traditionally limited you to one or the other. Those that were aligned with Nvidia did 120hz using D-DVI and those who were aligned with AMD did 120hz using display port.

Some have thankfully begun doing both D-DVI and display port. And obviously with Nvidia beginning to support display port, hopefully it means an end to the games and all monitors will support 120hz no matter which video card you're using in the future.

Thanks for saving me from buying the wrong kind of monitor. I just picked up a 7870 and it has two Display Ports. I have been looking every where I can think of and only found 27 inch monitors that have both, DP and 120hz. I have a pretty small desk, so a 27 inch would be hard to fit. Are there any 23 or 24 inch 120hz monitors, that also have DP?

Also, thanks for the super helpful post Scogoth. Very informative ^_^
 

mkenyon

Banned
S23A750D is the way to go then. They are more on the pricey side due to the inclusion of stupid eco tech that you will want to turn off anyway and 3D Glasses.
 

n0n44m

Member
Nope.

*edit*

Actually one small issue. You can't use capture cards with displayport.

soooo ... how good is the BenQ XL2420T really? worth €350? seems to be getting good reviews everywhere. Or do you like your S23A750D better? price is the same here

I want to jump on the 120 hz bandwagon but coming from a 32" LCD TV, those 24" monitors seem somewhat small. The only good 27" monitor I see is the Asus VG278H but those seem to have a lot of quality issues and are even more expensive. And I'm not sure I only want a TN screen.

So I was thinking that instead of replacing my TV, I could just turn my second desk into a "120 hz FPS gaming" corner. All I need is another keyboard as my mouse is already wireless and I'd use my headphones+amp anyway. And a 120 hz monitor... (possibly two more in the future)
 

mkenyon

Banned
soooo ... how good is the BenQ XL2420T really? worth €350? seems to be getting good reviews everywhere. Or do you like your S23A750D better? price is the same here

I want to jump on the 120 hz bandwagon but coming from a 32" LCD TV, those 24" monitors seem somewhat small. The only good 27" monitor I see is the Asus VG278H but those seem to have a lot of quality issues and are even more expensive. And I'm not sure I only want a TN screen.

So I was thinking that instead of replacing my TV, I could just turn my second desk into a "120 hz FPS gaming" corner. All I need is another keyboard as my mouse is already wireless and I'd use my headphones+amp anyway. And a 120 hz monitor... (possibly two more in the future)
XL2420T is amazing. Best 120hz monitor out there for sure, and by far prefer it over my 750D. I'm using a 7970 in my main rig right now, with two other monitors, so was more or less forced to go the Samsung route.

*edit* Also fair warning, once you use the 120hz monitor, it's going to be really hard to use that TV again.
 

MrBig

Member
soooo ... how good is the BenQ XL2420T really? worth €350? seems to be getting good reviews everywhere. Or do you like your S23A750D better? price is the same here

I want to jump on the 120 hz bandwagon but coming from a 32" LCD TV, those 24" monitors seem somewhat small. The only good 27" monitor I see is the Asus VG278H but those seem to have a lot of quality issues and are even more expensive. And I'm not sure I only want a TN screen.

So I was thinking that instead of replacing my TV, I could just turn my second desk into a "120 hz FPS gaming" corner. All I need is another keyboard as my mouse is already wireless and I'd use my headphones+amp anyway. And a 120 hz monitor... (possibly two more in the future)

Give this, and the various other related threads in that section, a perusal.
 

TGMIII

Member
XL2420T is amazing. Best 120hz monitor out there for sure, and by far prefer it over my 750D. I'm using a 7970 in my main rig right now, with two other monitors, so was more or less forced to go the Samsung route.

*edit* Also fair warning, once you use the 120hz monitor, it's going to be really hard to use that TV again.

I'll 2nd the recommendation on the XL2420T. My only one issue with it was that the colours weren't great out of the box due to it being in CS mode and it took a while to get it how I wanted but other than that it's amazing.
 

n0n44m

Member
XL2420T is amazing. Best 120hz monitor out there for sure, and by far prefer it over my 750D. I'm using a 7970 in my main rig right now, with two other monitors, so was more or less forced to go the Samsung route.

*edit* Also fair warning, once you use the 120hz monitor, it's going to be really hard to use that TV again.

so is it missing some inputs or something then? I want to keep the option open to go triple-screen in the future ... seems like it has everything though? DP , two HDMI, DVI, VGA ...

I'd just use the TV for general internet/office/movie usage then probably, it is quite a nice TV ;) (Samsung LE32A656) ... this is what it looks like now (desks are in a 90 degree setup)

pano_20111231_171251cbjii.jpg


I'll replace the old 20" on the right desk (which is on TV tuner duty at the moment) with the BenQ and put a keyboard/mousepad there. Headphone amp plugs right into the receiver :)

Give this, and the various other related threads in that section, a perusal.

hehe I actually read most of those today while scouring for info on the BenQ/Asus screens ... pretty interesting ;)

but yeah I think I'll just rather go for a dedicated 120 hz monitor setup now, with the ability to get two more in the future and replace the TV with a quality 27/30" screen next year (or maybe one of those you linked if it all works out hehe). The BenQ also supports 3D Vision 2 which might be fun to try :p
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
How hard is it to build one from scratch, when you have zero experience?

It's a project. Everyone says its easy just to get people to jump head first into the situation but in reality you might run into issues you have to troubleshoot and there is no guarantee there wont be frustration.

When it comes to things like upgrading a vid card or installing some ram, it really is easy, but building one from scratch, taking into account space and wire configurations can take time to get right.
 

clav

Member
How hard is it to build one from scratch, when you have zero experience?

If you have played with legos before, you can build one.

Plus, you have GAF, so if you're stuck, post and ask.

I remember building my first before the Internet had broadband. Those were tough times. Scarce information and no Google.
 

Smokey

Member
Thinking of "upgrading" to the BenQ XL2420T 120hz monitor. Have had my ASUS 120hz monitor for a year and love it, but me being a pretty avid 3D user I really want to use the 3D Vision 2 with this monitor. Seems to be the best of those with the LightBoost tech. Would pretty much solve the only issue I have with playing in 3D (picture gets darker).
 
So i hooked up my girlfriends studio monitors to my computer through RCA to 1/8" on my motherboard, there's a terrible grounding noise / buzz. What's my options to remove this? She also has a USB audio interface machine thing that could work.

Don't use the RCA connection if possible, it's a lower quality signal. Hopefully the monitors have either a TRS or XLR output you can use to hook up to the audio interface, you'll lose the hissing and buzzing.
 

Hawk269

Member
I was able to snag 2 680's today and will be selling my eVGA 580 3GB Classifieds GPU's. If anyone here has any interest, PM. Also, just as an FYI...eVGA's new Warranty program starts soon and the 580's will be covered as they will be covering the card by itself versus tied to the owner of the card...so in short, if you buy the card you are covered with the lifetime warranty.
 

Smokey

Member
I want to do triple monitor 3d so if I can pick up a used one and then get another one discounted saves me a ton of money buying three new ones

Sweet, we should talk then :p

Planning to do that as well. Might as well make use of the 3GB of VRAM I have on my 580s. I could continue to use the Asus but I'm anal about stuff being consistent. I've wanted to do the triple monitor setup since I built mine last year, but getting closer to achieving it and checking off that box. I'm not aware of anybody here that has a triple 120hz setup. I know sk3tch has the most ballin PC on the site, but I think he is still using regular monitors for his Surround setup. Could be wrong though.

I was able to snag 2 680's today and will be selling my eVGA 580 3GB Classifieds GPU's. If anyone here has any interest, PM. Also, just as an FYI...eVGA's new Warranty program starts soon and the 580's will be covered as they will be covering the card by itself versus tied to the owner of the card...so in short, if you buy the card you are covered with the lifetime warranty.

lol you crack me up. in a good way!

mmmmmm potential triple SLI 580 3GB goodness
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
I was able to snag 2 680's today and will be selling my eVGA 580 3GB Classifieds GPU's. If anyone here has any interest, PM. Also, just as an FYI...eVGA's new Warranty program starts soon and the 580's will be covered as they will be covering the card by itself versus tied to the owner of the card...so in short, if you buy the card you are covered with the lifetime warranty.
Oh, another lifetime coverage vendor then? About time.
Is it only on the higher end cards? Info?

Also you are ridiculous thinking about upgrading. I'll be sitting here with my 6950 and GTX280 waiting for 660/670 unless 3GB 580's hit like $330.
 

scogoth

Member
Sweet, we should talk then :p

Planning to do that as well. Might as well make use of the 3GB of VRAM I have on my 580s. I could continue to use the Asus but I'm anal about stuff being consistent. I've wanted to do the triple monitor setup since I built mine last year, but getting closer to achieving it and checking off that box. I'm not aware of anybody here that has a triple 120hz setup. I know sk3tch has the most ballin PC on the site, but I think he is still using regular monitors for his Surround setup. Could be wrong though.

Yeah I need to build a new PC to run a triple monitor monster. It would be cool to do triple 27in 120hz monitors but as far as I can tell there are no stands to support that. Not to mention my desk is only 60 inches wide and three vg236's are 66in wide without angling.
 

sk3tch

Member
I know sk3tch has the most ballin PC on the site, but I think he is still using regular monitors for his Surround setup. Could be wrong though.

Yup...my surround setup is 3x ASUS VH236H 23" LCDs - 60hz (tri-SLI 680s). My 7970 is on a Acer GD235hz 120hz monitor (primary, and Acer H233H secondary with a Westinghouse 26" tertiary)...I am probably going to move the 120hz to be primary since NV Surround doesn't really impress.

I do LOVE my 120hz monitor but for the price of ONE 120hz monitor I bought my NV Surround setup of VH236Hs. Didn't want to go hard on NV Surround until it proved itself. I like to play online multiplayer and I had heard it really hurts that...and it's pretty much true (unless you're tank gunning in BF3 or something).

Got burned by 3D (cool, but kind of just a gimmick to me) and now NV Surround is just OK. So I think I will focus on 120hz as it is the real deal Holyfield. Too bad even with Tri-SLI 680s I can't maintain 120FPS in BF3 at 1080p...but that'll be solved with more mature drivers.

Seriously...for competitive multiplayer any gimmick such as NV Surround/3D is BS. Get a great 1080p monitor and roll (and stay sub-24"). All of my monitors are insane quality (performance-wise) for the competitive gaming scene. But the 120hz is the creme de la creme. Love that thing. Wish it'd go down in price. :( Still around $340.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
I have to agree.
3D is a gimmick for me until huge giant widespread adoption, and even then it has large costs (time and $) to work in until some middleware does it cheap.
Triple monitor still has Bezel and calibration issues, not to mention space.

120Hz is the one thing I can see being focused on, but I'm... not sure I want to get one. I won't be able to look back and everything will be awful.
 
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