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"I Need a New PC!" 2015 Part 2. Read the OP. Rocking 2500K's until HBM2 and beyond.

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Helmholtz

Member
I'm getting a new hard drive for my PC. It's replacing the one I keep most of my games on.
Any difference between western digital black and blue drives? Blue is cheaper, but I'm wondering if it would impact game performance at all. Would it only possibly effect load times a bit?
 
I'm getting a new hard drive for my PC. It's replacing the one I keep most of my games on.
Any difference between western digital black and blue drives? Blue is cheaper, but I'm wondering if it would impact game performance at all. Would it only possibly effect load times a bit?

Yep, load times and assets streaming. Black is faster but louder, I suggest just go with blue, you will not notice much difference.
 

vocab

Member
I'm getting a new hard drive for my PC. It's replacing the one I keep most of my games on.
Any difference between western digital black and blue drives? Blue is cheaper, but I'm wondering if it would impact game performance at all. Would it only possibly effect load times a bit?
The 1tb model specfically, the blue just performs better. Its odd.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I will ask this here as I do not want to create a thread just for this question.

I have two routers in my home. There is the main router to which the modem is connected, and there's another one in my room on the second floor, which is wirelessly connected to the main router. I need that second router in my room so that my tower computer can have internet, as it does not have wifi. Everything works.

My question is: if my main router does not support the 5GHz frequency while my second router does, does it mean that I won't be able to use that 5GHz frequency of my second router to connect to other devices, say, my Macbook? Or does it not matter?

I'm asking because my Macbook is not seeing the 5GHz frequency of my second router when searching for networks. The 5GHz frequency has its own SSID, distinct from the 2.4 one.

If your second router is connected to your tower with a cable, and it connects to the main router via WiFi, then the WiFi won't be accessible by other devices because you're using it as a bridge.
 
Does digital art (Photoshop, Painter, etc) and photography editing (Lightroom) use multi-threading? I use those programs, but I'm not sure if I should spend the money on an i5 or i7.

I also am a gamer and am planning on getting a VR headset eventually, if that matters.

Build will be a GTX 980, Skylake proc/mobo, 16GB DDR4

My wife uses Photoshop a lot and it's set up to use her GPU more than anything. She uses a 7970, though so it's OpenCL. Your Nvidia card should be able to do the same.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Reposting for the new, new page, all help is appreciated!

Hi all, I'm in the early stages of researching a Skylake build and I've narrowed down my motherboard choice to two models, the Gigabyte Gaming 3 and 5. I've been trying to compare the two, but for the life of me I can't work out why the 5 is more expensive (~£30) when on paper it seems worse than the 3.

Hopefully this link will work to Gigabytes own comparison: Link

From what I can tell the 'inferior' 3 has better audio as it has the OPA2134 amp which is present in the higher end 7 board, but seems to be missing from the 5.

The advantages the five has are a couple more USBs on the back, a Display Port (which won't be used anyway with a discrete card), some fancy buttons on the board itself which presumably are just BIOS shortcuts and an extra LAN port which won't be used by me.

In all other respects the boards seem nigh-identical.

Please help me out, I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
 

jsrv

Member
Does digital art (Photoshop, Painter, etc) and photography editing (Lightroom) use multi-threading? I use those programs, but I'm not sure if I should spend the money on an i5 or i7.

I also am a gamer and am planning on getting a VR headset eventually, if that matters.

Build will be a GTX 980, Skylake proc/mobo, 16GB DDR4

I've seen some professionals do high res promotional work and illustrations (like WOTC stuff) entirely on Macbooks and Surface Pro 3s which both just have laptop cpus so I think you're okay with either one. Oculus recommends an i5 + 970 for their consumer release.. Not sure about other VR headsets.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Looks like it also has an extra PCI Express 1x slot.

Other than that they might not list things like how well the board is constructed; things like power phase design could influence cost.

Thanks, anyway you know of of finding that out? Also, how important is it for someone like myself who won't be extreme overclocking?
 

LilJoka

Member
Thanks, anyway you know of of finding that out? Also, how important is it for someone like myself who won't be extreme overclocking?

Get the Gaming 3, 5 is a waste of money for you as you've seen already. The board components are really only going to matter for the upper end of overclocks, 4.5Ghz+
 

Grassy

Member
Thoughts and opinions

CPU - Intel Core i5 6600K ($369)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=32843

Motherboard - ASUS Z170-AR Motherboard ($279)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=32864

RAM - Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2A2133C13 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 Black ($209)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=32848

GPU - EVGA GeForce GTX 970 ACX 2.0 4GB ($489)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=29995

PSU - EVGA SuperNOVA 750W G2 Gold Power Supply ($159)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=27992

All Prices are in AUD. Want to future proof, but cant justify spending so much on 980.

I'd recommend the G.Skill Ripjaws V for compatibility with Z170, PCCG only have the PC3000 in-stock which is $30 extra. Check it out anyway - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=186_912&products_id=33022

Auspcmarket have the Ripjaws V PC2666 for $210 - http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/16gb-g-skill-ddr4-2666-dual-channel-ripjaws-v-blazing-red/
 
It's happening! Just waiting for my CPU and MoBo.

lhT2C0P.jpg
 

garath

Member
So I was gunna upgrade my SSD as it is only a 128gb... Anyway was speaking to my boss at work who told me to just add another 128gb and RAID them, RAID 0 were his words.

Now I understand how RAID works, but I am unsure how to set it up and is it worth doing as another 128gb will be considerably cheaper than the 500+ models I was looking at.

Also, how would I put my OS onto my HDD while I do the RAIDing :p

Cheers.

I wouldn't RAID 0 a 128gb SSD. Its not going to give you my more space. Raid 0 is designed to make the drives perform faster. Two 128gb raid 0 drives will still only give you 128gb of storage. As its a SSD already, you won't notice the increased speed of RAID 0.

You are better off buying a new bigger SSD if you need the space.
 

Skii

Member
Read about it online and some people had to enable "Legacy USB mode" in BIOS for Windows 8 when they got the media driver error.
Personally I didn't have to change anything with Z170-A and it worked, but could be also something to look into.

And no problem, hopefully you get your new machine running soon.

I don't think it's the USB thumb drive.

Go into the Boot section of BIOS, look for the boot settings relating to UEFI/Legacy boot up. Try switching it to legacy mode.

I think all of the settings are pretty much in Legacy only mode already. Here's a picture of the default settings:


I even changed it to Legacy OPROM and tried it with no luck.

The legacy USB support is enabled by default in advanced settings as well.

I don't know what to do. I've read the manual and can't find anything that might be causing the problem. Changed fast boot to normal boot and that did nothing either.
 

knitoe

Member
I wouldn't RAID 0 a 128gb SSD. Its not going to give you my more space. Raid 0 is designed to make the drives perform faster. Two 128gb raid 0 drives will still only give you 128gb of storage. As its a SSD already, you won't notice the increased speed of RAID 0.

You are better off buying a new bigger SSD if you need the space.

Incorrect. Raid 0 combines the drives. Thus, 2x128GB = a 256GB in Windows while also providing almost twice the read and write speeds. I have been running Raids forever.
 

ignaciogc

Member
In that case, let me recommend a few changes to your build. You'll save some money and get better parts.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($328.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H105 73.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus GRYPHON Z97 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($159.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($83.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Toshiba 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.56 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($312.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Corsair Air 240 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.00 @ NCIX US)
Total: $1240.49
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-19 17:39 EDT-0400

Changed the Crucial MX100 for the BX100, the WD Green hard drive for the Toshiba, and the Corsair CX power supply for the EVGA model. PCPer considers the BX100 to be a great successor to the MX100. The Toshiba costs about the same price as the WD drive but is a faster 7200RPM model as opposed to the WD Green's 5400RPM speed. Also, WD Green drives have a reputation for "head parking" which is frankly not something you want. Lastly, Corsair's CX line of budget power supplies are only averagely so-so, see this review of the CX750M. The EVGA Supernova B2 is generally of much higher quality.

Thanks a lot!

The Crucial SSD I already had, but thanks for the other pointers.
 
Does upgrading to a 970 from a 770 at this point seem like a worthwhile upgrade?

I've been wanting a little more performance and I've been eyeing the 970 for some time, and the free MGSV copy makes it look like a pretty good deal.
 

Kudo

Member
The legacy USB support is enabled by default in advanced settings as well.

I don't know what to do. I've read the manual and can't find anything that might be causing the problem. Changed fast boot to normal boot and that did nothing either.

Sorry, I'm drawing blank here.
Can't think of anything that would cause this, unless your motherboard or USB is faulty. With same motherboard I didn't have to change anything and just clicking the UEFI: USB on boot menu it installed smoothly, I don't have m.2 device but you already tried without that so it doesn't leave much.

I'd start troubleshooting with the USB, this morning I read that Canon devices don't play well on newer machines so there could be some incompatibility issue. I honestly don't know if it's possible for storage devices but if I were you I'd just pray it's something wrong with the stick, you can probably grab new 8gb sticks from local stores for cheap. What model is your current stick?

*3: M.2 shares SATA mode with SATA Express. Change this item before installing M.2 SATA devices.
This is from Asus site by the way, you should change it for the device, we already tried that earlier too, but just change it in case you get it working.

Best of luck and sorry for not being able to help!
 

Skii

Member
Sorry, I'm drawing blank here.
Can't think of anything that would cause this, unless your motherboard or USB is faulty. With same motherboard I didn't have to change anything and just clicking the UEFI: USB on boot menu it installed smoothly, I don't have m.2 device but you already tried without that so it doesn't leave much.

I'd start troubleshooting with the USB, this morning I read that Canon devices don't play well on newer machines so there could be some incompatibility issue. I honestly don't know if it's possible for storage devices but if I were you I'd just pray it's something wrong with the stick, you can probably grab new 8gb sticks from local stores for cheap. What model is your current stick?


This is from Asus site by the way, you should change it for the device, we already tried that earlier too, but just change it in case you get it working.

Best of luck and sorry for not being able to help!

Well you've taken time out to try and help me so I thank you for that.

My USB is a "Spaceloop by CnMemory XL 32GB".

I should be getting a SanDisk Extreme 3.0 USB today from Amazon when they finally decide to deliver. I'm just hoping this rectifies the issue. Can't imagine how much hassle it'll be trying to get a new motherboard. I don't even know how I'd take the CPU out without damaging everything as the CPU cooler has already been attached.

I don't get it sorry. Should I change the setting to SATA express or M2? For some reason, my M2 chip isn't displayed as part of the bootable devices anymore on the right. Sure it was there before. But if I go deep into advanced settings, it is being read. I currently have that particular setting to SATA express.
 
Alright guys, today I'll be opening up my PC for the first time to add a new GPU, hard drive, and switch CPUs. I have a friend coming over to help me who knows what he's doing, but are there any tips I should know about grounding to prevent static discharge?

Or maybe how to remove a thermal pasted CPU without breaking the whole thing? It doesn't work, which is why I'm swapping it out, but I'd like to avoid damaging it if possible.
 

harz-marz

Member
Alright guys, today I'll be opening up my PC for the first time to add a new GPU, hard drive, and switch CPUs. I have a friend coming over to help me who knows what he's doing, but are there any tips I should know about grounding to prevent static discharge?

Or maybe how to remove a thermal pasted CPU without breaking the whole thing? It doesn't work, which is why I'm swapping it out, but I'd like to avoid damaging it if possible.

I did just this for the first time last weekend and it was very straightforward. Just make sure you touch the metal case of your PC and you should be fine.
 
If you can get a good deal or 2nd hand, of course it is. I'd splash out a bit more on a 980 ti if you can afford it though.
Well the problem is that for example in my country difference between MSI GTX 980 and MSI GTX 980 Ti is 265 $. Or I have to postpone buying for one month.
My current 9600m GT in my laptop is enough to watch youtube though.
 

Kudo

Member
Well you've taken time out to try and help me so I thank you for that.

My USB is a "Spaceloop by CnMemory XL 32GB".

I should be getting a SanDisk Extreme 3.0 USB today from Amazon when they finally decide to deliver. I'm just hoping this rectifies the issue. Can't imagine how much hassle it'll be trying to get a new motherboard. I don't even know how I'd take the CPU out without damaging everything as the CPU cooler has already been attached.

I don't get it sorry. Should I change the setting to SATA express or M2? For some reason, my M2 chip isn't displayed as part of the bootable devices anymore on the right. Sure it was there before. But if I go deep into advanced settings, it is being read. I currently have that particular setting to SATA express.

Well, you're using m.2 device so set it to m.2. BIOS probably detects it anyway but as the setting is SATA Express it gives priority to HDD/SSD plugged to the SATA ports and not the m.2.
 

knitoe

Member
Alright guys, today I'll be opening up my PC for the first time to add a new GPU, hard drive, and switch CPUs. I have a friend coming over to help me who knows what he's doing, but are there any tips I should know about grounding to prevent static discharge?

Or maybe how to remove a thermal pasted CPU without breaking the whole thing? It doesn't work, which is why I'm swapping it out, but I'd like to avoid damaging it if possible.
All I do is make sure the power is fully discharge from the PC by turning off the PSU switch or unplugging the power cable, hit power on button on the case, and lastly, touch the PC case with your hands. Then, I am all good to mess around inside the case.

As for removing the heatsink, it should come off relative easy by just lifting it. If not, you can wriggle it to loosen it.
 
Hey guys, I need some serious help with my PC.

So I accidentally spilt coffee on my PC (its one of those PC cases with vent holes on the ceiling).
I quickly turned off my PC to clean (thankfully there weren't much inside the case) however my PC doesn't want to turn on anymore.
First I thought my PSU had gone bad, but then whenever I tried to turn on my PC I could hear this fizzy sound coming from my mobo.
So my question is... is my mobo bad now? Or is there a way to still salvage it?

I'm using GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-D3H.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128591&cm_re=z87x-d3h-_-13-128-591-_-Product

Can you guys recommend me a replacement?

Thanks!

Any help is appreciated.
 

zebwinz

Member
Well, if you want it to last 5+ years, and you're buying an unlocked -k CPU, you're probably going to overclock at some point. It's really easy these days, so just think of it as a little extra free performance waiting for you when you want it.

On of the advantages of skylake is that it handles higher ram frequencies better. Above 2666 things can get finicky on x99, and if you look at user reviews for higher frequency ram you'll usually see a fair number of complaints as a result.

Go with the best 2x8 you can get at an acceptable price when you're ready to buy.

Thanks! I'll do that for sure
 

RGM79

Member
Does upgrading to a 970 from a 770 at this point seem like a worthwhile upgrade?

I've been wanting a little more performance and I've been eyeing the 970 for some time, and the free MGSV copy makes it look like a pretty good deal.

It's a pretty sizable performance upgrade.

Any help is appreciated.

If it really is liquid damage, then there's not really anything you can do. What's your budget for a replacement motherboard?
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Any help is appreciated.
Probably some spilled where you couldn't clean it and it shorted a small component.
I'd purchase the same model so you don't have to reinstall everything.

Make sure you clean your power and data connectors when you replace the board.
 

Skii

Member
Well, you're using m.2 device so set it to m.2. BIOS probably detects it anyway but as the setting is SATA Express it gives priority to HDD/SSD plugged to the SATA ports and not the m.2.

Ah okay, thanks for the heads up :)

Also, I'm doing some research and found this article. Do you think this is at all relevant to me as I used Google chrome to download the installer?

What browser did you use?
 

LilJoka

Member
I think all of the settings are pretty much in Legacy only mode already. Here's a picture of the default settings:



I even changed it to Legacy OPROM and tried it with no luck.

The legacy USB support is enabled by default in advanced settings as well.

I don't know what to do. I've read the manual and can't find anything that might be causing the problem. Changed fast boot to normal boot and that did nothing either.

And what happens if you force all of those to UEFI?

I have my doubts that a USB 3.0 drive can install Windows in Legacy mode, it should work in UEFI though. Ive always used USB 2.0 ports to avoid the hassle of working out what actually does work.
 

Thanks again. I'm going to get this for sure now. :)

And I'm going to go with the i7 5820 rig you suggested. Everything on that component list of yours sounds ace, except I feel pretty iffy about the motherboard you suggested because of its negative reviews on amazon and on newegg.

It was the GIGABYTE GA-X99M-GAMING 5
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X99MGA5&c=CJ

Would it be okay for me to swap that motherboard for this one?

EVGA X99 Micro 2 Intel Socket LGA-2011-3 with DDR4 3200MHz Motherboard
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B012DTFAGE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
 

zebwinz

Member
Wow, I've been out of the upgrade cycle for awhile (been rocking the once top of the line i7-870 for 6 years) and I had no clue as to what an M.2 drive was. I'm planning a Skylake build (probably the 6700k if it ever comes in stock at retail price) so a few quick questions.

M.2 SSDs are about the same price as regular SSDs for the slower drives, like this Samsung 850 EVO http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147398&cm_re=m.2_ssd-_-20-147-398-_-Product

Whereas you pay close to double to get faster read/write like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249046&cm_re=m.2_ssd-_-20-249-046-_-Product

Would it be best to stick with a Crucial BX100 for now and wait to upgrade that until prices come down?
 

RGM79

Member
Around the same I paid for my current mobo so $120-150. Something like that.
Thanks.

There's a really good deal at the moment. The Gigabyte Z97X-SLI is $62 at Amazon, no rebate required. If you check the price tracker history at that link and the cost of the motherboard from other retailers, you'll see that it usually retails for around $110~ or so. We recommended it a lot in this and last years' threads, so it should be fairly reliable and a decent choice.

You can see here through Gigabyte's official product comparison tool that the Z97X-SLI is actually a little higher end than your old Z87X-D3H.
 
There's a really good deal at the moment. The Gigabyte Z97X-SLI is $62 at Amazon, no rebate required. If you check the price tracker history at that link and the cost of the motherboard from other retailers, you'll see that it usually retails for around $110~ or so. We recommended it a lot in this and last years' threads, so it should be fairly reliable and a decent choice.

You can see here through Gigabyte's official product comparison tool that the Z97X-SLI is actually a little higher end than your old Z87X-D3H.

Awesome thanks alot! :D
 

Skii

Member
And what happens if you force all of those to UEFI?

I have my doubts that a USB 3.0 drive can install Windows in Legacy mode, it should work in UEFI though. Ive always used USB 2.0 ports to avoid the hassle of working out what actually does work.

I'm just redownloading the installer using Edge instead of chrome. I posted a link in a post above about someone having a similar problem but with a DVD and that sorted it. I doubt it'll fix anything but it's worth a shot.

I'll change everything to UEFI afterwards and see what happens. I'm pretty sure my USB drive is 2.0 though.
 

NOKYARD

Member
Hoping someone can answer my question about HDMI switches.

I'm currently running a dual monitor setup on my PC. I enjoy sitting on my couch from time to play my Steam games with my gamepad. I have an NVIDIA 770 and I only have two HDMI ports. I want to connect my TV also so that I can switch it off and on when I want to throw Steam Big Picture on it. Can I get an HDMI switcher and connect it to the GPU and then just run the two monitors when I want and activate the third (TV) or what ever when I want?

I have a similar setup so here are a few notes. Pick and choose which apply to you.

HDMI splitters (distribution amp) will only output at a single resolution. This is determined by the connected display devices, not the source. Generally they will downgrade the resolution to match the lowest resolution display so if you have two 1080p monitors and a 720p TV the signal going to all displays will be 720p.

Some units, like my Monoprice unit will let you determine which display will be the default resolution for all displays. So you can set one of the 1080p monitors as a default and let the TV down sample the 1080p signal to 720p. Only a few devices will allow this so make sure you read the Amazon reviews.

HDMI splitters are not hot-swappable. Make sure to unplug the power cable before changing HDMI plugs. There is a device registration process happening while the unit boots up and several restarts (mine needed around 10) may be required to get all displays functioning at the same time. All displays should be turned on and set to their native resolution when starting up the unit for the first time. Once the connections are established it will automatically detect when the individual displays are turned on or off without having to re-register them each time. I prefer to leave the splitter on at all times, even when not using it.

Future proof your setup by spending a few extra dollars on a 4K splitter.

Make sure you purchase the proper gauge HDMI cables to suit your layout. Longer cables require a lower AWG number to supply the display with enough bandwidth to drive the display at full resolution (Redmere allows for thinner cables if needed). Monoprice is a good source for this as they expressly state the capabilities of each gauge, at each length, below the product descriptions.

I recommend finding the cheapest cable at your required length which supports 4K since they are sometimes only a few cents more expensive than the lower grade cable. If the cable is over 15 feet it will be thick so make sure to add a few extra feet to route around furniture since they will be difficult to bend and may be heavy enough to fall out of the TV under it's own weight
 

Kudo

Member
Ah okay, thanks for the heads up :)

Also, I'm doing some research and found this article. Do you think this is at all relevant to me as I used Google chrome to download the installer?

What browser did you use?

I used Chrome too, but at this point it could be anything. The downloader did crash on my laptop, but when I used another computer to make the USB it went perfectly smoothly.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10 Just making sure you're using the right tool and not the older USB Tool meant for Windows 7. Select 64bit on all.
Best of luck!
 

paskowitz

Member
Thanks again. I'm going to get this for sure now. :)

And I'm going to go with the i7 5820 rig you suggested. Everything on that component list of yours sounds ace, except I feel pretty iffy about the motherboard you suggested because of its negative reviews on amazon and on newegg.

It was the GIGABYTE GA-X99M-GAMING 5
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X99MGA5&c=CJ

Would it be okay for me to swap that motherboard for this one?

EVGA X99 Micro 2 Intel Socket LGA-2011-3 with DDR4 3200MHz Motherboard
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B012DTFAGE/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Usually Gigabyte makes great boards... but it appears that one suffers from a bad layout. Yeah, I would go with the EVGA.
 

Soodanim

Member
I definitely want to buy a new mouse soon, and I'm using the £10 Logitech voucher to justify that (not that it has to be from Logitech's site or Logitech at all).

GAME stores have started stocking mice and keyboards, and the Sensei Raw and Sensei Rival are in my local store. I'm really not sure what to go for, because my current is a MS Sidewinder X3. It seems to be a palm grip, but what throws me off most is that it's an ambidextrous mouse so I can't even really get to one of the side buttons and the other is positioned in a spot that I need to turn the mouse to get to. So I'm claw gripping the mouse at an angle. It's a bit weird.

Sensei Raw vs Logitech G502?
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
I definitely want to buy a new mouse soon, and I'm using the £10 Logitech voucher to justify that (not that it has to be from Logitech's site or Logitech at all).

GAME stores have started stocking mice and keyboards, and the Sensei Raw and Sensei Rival are in my local store. I'm really not sure what to go for, because my current is a MS Sidewinder X3. It seems to be a palm grip, but what throws me off most is that it's an ambidextrous mouse so I can't even really get to one of the side buttons and the other is positioned in a spot that I need to turn the mouse to get to. So I'm claw gripping the mouse at an angle. It's a bit weird.

Sensei Raw vs Logitech G502?
FWIW that's how I gold my Rival and I prefer it over the RAW.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
I definitely want to buy a new mouse soon, and I'm using the £10 Logitech voucher to justify that (not that it has to be from Logitech's site or Logitech at all).

GAME stores have started stocking mice and keyboards, and the Sensei Raw and Sensei Rival are in my local store. I'm really not sure what to go for, because my current is a MS Sidewinder X3. It seems to be a palm grip, but what throws me off most is that it's an ambidextrous mouse so I can't even really get to one of the side buttons and the other is positioned in a spot that I need to turn the mouse to get to. So I'm claw gripping the mouse at an angle. It's a bit weird.

Sensei Raw vs Logitech G502?

I really like my G502. Like the versatility and button configurations and placement for the most part. Only negative is that the scroll wheel has 3 separate button assignments; standard Middle Click, but also a Left and Right Side Clicks. So if you assign stuff to those(I have scroll left/right through tabs) it's very easy for you to initiate either of those clicks when trying to do a Middle Click. Like 1/3 times. Which can be annoying. Also the scroll wheel doesn't free spin on it's own like my old MX Revolution, instead you have a toggle switch that locks or unlocks the wheel.
 
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