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"I Need a New PC!" 2023. 6-24 Cores, Frame Generation, Enhanced Ray Tracing & Direct Storage.
- Thread starter Leonidas
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GHG
Member
I thought that was the case with Intel as well at higher speeds?
octiny
Banned
No, if you have 4x16gb sticks it means they are running in dual rank mode, even if they are single rank modules. If you do 32gb modules x2 you'll get dual rank as well. If you do 2x16gb it'll always be single rank w/ DDR5 as there are no dual rank 16gb DDR5 modules unlike DDR4. Either way you're limited on the IMC w/ the 7000 series. There's little chance of running higher than 6400mhz regardless on AM5 w/ the FCLK 1:1 (not decoupled). So if you wanted to run single rank w/ 2x16gb you wouldn't be able to get high enough DDR5 speeds to beat dual rank since the 7000 series IMC can't handle it. Regarding dual rank in lamen terms, it allows interleaving between the modules since there's memory chips on both sides of the module. You can also run 4x32gb dual rank & get quad rank but getting it stable at higher speeds would be a chore.
If on Intel 13th gen, you can reach 7600mhz+ single rank (32gb w/ 2x 16gb sticks) as the IMC is much better. It would take about 7000mhz dual rank to beat 7600mhz single rank, give or take. However, there are new 32GB module Hynix A-die chips which were just released a month ago that are dual rank (previous best for dual rank was Hynix M-die which maxed out around 6800mhz OC'ing) that are capable of reaching 7600mhz once tweaked. An example of said dies would be the new TeamGroup 6400mhz T-Create Expert modules. Picked up a 64GB (2x32gb) set myself for my upcoming 4090 ITX build. As a side note, 2 dimm boards almost always provide more overclocking headroom for memory than MB's w/ 4 dimm slots regardless of how many slots you fill up (so long as your hardware can handle it)
TLDR; For 7000 series on AM5, no it doesn't reduce performance since you can't go much higher than 6400mhz anyways due to IMC.
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OverHeat
« generous god »
Thx for the info.
Haint
Member
It's a great system, but very "value" inefficient. You're overpaying by like $600+ for a bunch of unnecessary stuff that won't have any real world impact on performance. You can get 10 year warrantied 1000W Gold ATX3.0 PSU's for like $160, like the Bequiet Pure Power 12M. You can get an entire 7700X, 32GB 6000, and a Mobo combo for the price of a 7800X3D by itself (which will have effectively no benefit on your 4K monitor). You can get $40-$60 coolers like the AK620 or Peerless Assassin that will significantly outperform the U12A. You could also save a sizable chunk switching to 2TB nvme's. The 2TB SN850X was $145 a couple days ago while the Solidigm (previously Intel) P44 Pro was $129. I can pretty much guarantee you're paying well over a $100 price premium for that single 4TB SN850X Vs. 2x 2TB's.
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cartman414
Member
BTW I find it hilarious how right now there are AMD processors that share numbers with Intel Extreme Processors from 6 years ago, especially the quasi-mainstream 7700X.
Bojji
Member
I changed my 5600x to 5800x3d, it's quite nice of improvement. In Witcher 3 DX12 novigrad square was dripping to ~40fps with RT, now 60 is minimum. Star wars Survivor works much better as well.
The best thing is that CPU can be undervolted to the max (-30 PBO2) and it works like i charm and temps dropped from 90 to 82C in R23.
Amazing.
The best thing is that CPU can be undervolted to the max (-30 PBO2) and it works like i charm and temps dropped from 90 to 82C in R23.
Amazing.
Guys I have been looking to upgrade my PC for a while. Getting close to pulling the trigger and looking for feedback.
Current setup
7700k
RTX 3080
16GB DDR4
750w sfx PSU Corsair fully modular
Monitor(s) - 1440p
Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe
Basically I want to keep my ITX case, Monitors, SSD, PSU and GPU.
Want to get a new CPU, MOBO, DDR5 Ram (32 or 64 GB) and I will take the opportunity to upgrade my CPU cooler (currently with an Evo 212 classic).
My goal is to have a CPU/MOBO/RAM combo which will last me a long time and be ready to accept a GPU upgrade probably with the 5XXX series are released. I dont plan on going 4K really. I am fine w 1440p. Power draw is a concern as I dont feel like replacing my PSU. I am fine to undervolt any CPU. I dont have a preference re Intel or AMD, just want the best value for the money, keeping the longevity and power draw concerns in mind.
Current setup
7700k
RTX 3080
16GB DDR4
750w sfx PSU Corsair fully modular
Monitor(s) - 1440p
Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe
Basically I want to keep my ITX case, Monitors, SSD, PSU and GPU.
Want to get a new CPU, MOBO, DDR5 Ram (32 or 64 GB) and I will take the opportunity to upgrade my CPU cooler (currently with an Evo 212 classic).
My goal is to have a CPU/MOBO/RAM combo which will last me a long time and be ready to accept a GPU upgrade probably with the 5XXX series are released. I dont plan on going 4K really. I am fine w 1440p. Power draw is a concern as I dont feel like replacing my PSU. I am fine to undervolt any CPU. I dont have a preference re Intel or AMD, just want the best value for the money, keeping the longevity and power draw concerns in mind.
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Your psu isn't a concern, outside a 4090 it'll power everything fine and whatever nvidia releases next shouldn't use more power. I can't give you much more advice mainly because i'm not sure what cooling your going to use and what fits in that case, i'm not sure the evo 212 would be viable on one of the new amd 3d cpus but i havn't seen any cooling data on the evo on modern cpus so I could be wrong. The 7800x3d or 13700 would probably be the best bet from a longevity perspective, the 13700 might be a bit easier to cool if cooler size is a problem.
THanks Ya I feel the Evo needs to be replaced. Looking at the Thermalight Peerless Assassin which seems to be the recommended cost effective air cooler now.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
If you plan on staying at 1440p, I would think that your current system would be more than adequate for a couple more years. What's the rush?
Bojji
Member
7700k is limiting as fuck in 2023 (even for 4k).
Ya I think Im starting to get CPU limited in some cases.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Ahhh, I misread the 7700k as a 7700x, see this is where it gets confusing!
Yeah, I just upgraded from an 8600k, it was definitely starting to weigh me down.
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hinch7
Member
Would look into the Phantom Spirit SE (PS120 SE) instead. Not as well known Thermalright cooler but performs slightly better, with an extra heatpipe. Costs about the same as the Peerless Assassin for a few bucks more. Do be mindful that these are still quite tall at around 155cm tall so check if if will fit in your case.
CPU depends.. if you want to best right now its the 7800X3D, for the best power to performance for gaming. Perfect for a smaller ITX system. $450 is quite steep though for a 8 core CPU however. Or you could go 7600X for now. Sell that and upgrade next year and get Zen 5 CPU which should be way faster all round.
Motherboard.. maybe look at getting B650 with good expandability. At least 32GB DDR5 6000 memory and the biggest Gen 4 SSD you can buy - that suits your budget.
Thanks Hinch. Ya I was looking at the 7800X3D. Given that the TDP is the same would be worth it to just go for the 7950X3D or 7900X3D for longevity reasons?
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
The 7900X3D and 7950X3D are worse than the 7800X3D.
Which is why AMD released the 7800X3D later.....they didnt want to cannibalize the more expensive parts.
If you absolutely need multithreaded performance then get non-X 7900/7950 and save a buck. (Actually I think non-X and X 7900/7950s go for a bout the same price these days).
Put a Peerless Assassin on and call it a day, their TDP is totally fine and they will last you a while.
If its mainly a gaming build that does some productivity/multitasking.
7800X3D and 13600K are your only "real" options in a bang for buck scenario.
hinch7
Member
No probs. Depends if you're doing other things than light usage and gaming. Like video editing or other heavy load productivity work having more cores (>8) makes sense. If not, its hard to justify the extra cost for more cores since most games don't use more than 6 cores never mind 8 plus. And both largely perform the same in games. In future games we could see them using more, but I don't see a fast 8 core CPU 7800X3D being a bottleneck any time soon. That and the fast 3D-VCache are tied to one (of two) CCD's anyway so essentially the 7950X3D mostly uses half of the CPU (8 core) for gaming. And parks the other cores for use if the CCD is overloaded.
With more cores though you can multitask a lot more while gaming. Personally I'd go with the 7800X3D for less hassle and cost. Spend the rest on GPU or storage capacity where you'd see the biggest difference.
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yeh this, if your not doing some productivity thing that can't be accelerated by your gpu (mainly compiling these days) the 7800x3d should be able to boost higher on the same power budget and hinch already covered the cache issues with multiple ccd's.
nightmare-slain
Gold Member
Today is 1 month of me using my 7950X3D with Asus B650E-E board.
I had a few issues in the first couple weeks but for the last two weeks my PC has been running flawlessly. Those issues I can only put down to a speed issue related to ethernet (This board uses the Intel i225-v) and a faulty USB drive. All my other USB storage devices work perfectly fine and since setting my ethernet to 1.0GB/s Full Duplex I've had no ethernet drop outs.
This is now the longest I've gone with an AMD system. Last time, as documented in the early pages of this thread, I had problems booting or restarting into Windows. I only had my parts for a day before returning them. I tried AMD a few years back and was getting random crashes that I couldn't explain after a month of troubleshooting.
It's been a month of using this system and I'm so happy with it. Gaming feels much better and I'm noticing a much smoother experience with less stuttering. Of course my 4080 isn't being held back as much now so framerates have improved. I did buy Process Lasso but haven't used it yet. Games seem to be doing a good job of running on the 3d cache CCD.
Video/photo work is much faster as well. Mostly video work. Exporting videos is so much quicker now it's crazy. I'm glad I went with this over a 7800X3D. Sure yeah if you are only gaming then get a 7800X3D but those extra 8 cores really help me out.
I had a few issues in the first couple weeks but for the last two weeks my PC has been running flawlessly. Those issues I can only put down to a speed issue related to ethernet (This board uses the Intel i225-v) and a faulty USB drive. All my other USB storage devices work perfectly fine and since setting my ethernet to 1.0GB/s Full Duplex I've had no ethernet drop outs.
This is now the longest I've gone with an AMD system. Last time, as documented in the early pages of this thread, I had problems booting or restarting into Windows. I only had my parts for a day before returning them. I tried AMD a few years back and was getting random crashes that I couldn't explain after a month of troubleshooting.
It's been a month of using this system and I'm so happy with it. Gaming feels much better and I'm noticing a much smoother experience with less stuttering. Of course my 4080 isn't being held back as much now so framerates have improved. I did buy Process Lasso but haven't used it yet. Games seem to be doing a good job of running on the 3d cache CCD.
Video/photo work is much faster as well. Mostly video work. Exporting videos is so much quicker now it's crazy. I'm glad I went with this over a 7800X3D. Sure yeah if you are only gaming then get a 7800X3D but those extra 8 cores really help me out.
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draliko
Member
Currently unsure if worth to upgrade pc and move away from consoles or wait incoming (for sure) midgen and move away later. Main thing is actually having my backlog only in 1 place and starting to find frustrating to always choose performance or image quality on consoles(both of them), and I've found that having all major console games coming to pc (even if after some time, and since I don't like cinematic games I don't really miss Sony fp on day1, i don't play them on ps5 neither)...
So now I'm sitting on a 5600x with 16gb 3600 ram and a 1tb nvme with a spare GPU (sold the 3080 when prices were crazy), I game at 1440p and have a freesync2 monitor. Looking around probably the best investment would be the 7900xt or the 4070ti (both around 800€ here in Italy, a bit worried vram side on Nvidia actually) but I've seen some 6950xt as low as 600€ and maybe that would be a better investment until proper next gen consoles? Probably would be nice to throw 16gb more or simply move to a 2 banks 32gb setup and sell the old one...
Any suggestion? Thanks.
So now I'm sitting on a 5600x with 16gb 3600 ram and a 1tb nvme with a spare GPU (sold the 3080 when prices were crazy), I game at 1440p and have a freesync2 monitor. Looking around probably the best investment would be the 7900xt or the 4070ti (both around 800€ here in Italy, a bit worried vram side on Nvidia actually) but I've seen some 6950xt as low as 600€ and maybe that would be a better investment until proper next gen consoles? Probably would be nice to throw 16gb more or simply move to a 2 banks 32gb setup and sell the old one...
Any suggestion? Thanks.
Quasicat
Member
I picked up an i5 with 64 gb of DDR4 RAM in 2008. I can’t remember how much I paid for it, but I know it wasn’t cheap.
I no longer miss gaming on it, due to the Xbox/PS5 with a high end LG TV, and instead use it exclusively as a Handbrake encoder and Plex backup system. I‘ve been looking at an M2 Mac Mini for the purpose of emulation and a full time Plex machine. It will be a bit overkill, but it takes very little electricity and it’s more powerful than my Nvidia Shield TV, which is starting to show it’s age.
I no longer miss gaming on it, due to the Xbox/PS5 with a high end LG TV, and instead use it exclusively as a Handbrake encoder and Plex backup system. I‘ve been looking at an M2 Mac Mini for the purpose of emulation and a full time Plex machine. It will be a bit overkill, but it takes very little electricity and it’s more powerful than my Nvidia Shield TV, which is starting to show it’s age.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I think the 4070ti is a great 1440p card and know a couple of people who are using it as such and are thrilled with it.
Side note this is exactly why these mid gen consoles happen is to try and keep people in their ecosystem who start to think about getting PCs
nightmare-slain
Gold Member
Why Intel?Finally decided to upgrade my PC since my 10 year anniversary at work is coming up. Looking forward to playing with the new hardware (13th gen intel platform).
Hope you have a beefy PSU and AIO cooler....and cheap energy tariffs.
I was going to get a 13900K until I saw it needs a contact frame, AIO, and it can use up to 500W lmao.
Also, if you've waited this long for 13th gen you might as well have waited for
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Celcius
°Temp. member
There's always something new around the corner and I wanted to go ahead and upgrade now. Plus it doesn't look like the refresh will be a huge deal and this will already be a big upgrade from what I have.
I'll be going with the 13700k which shouldn't run as hot as the 13900k and didn't want to go with AM5 as the platform seems to be a mess at the moment with the voltage/bios stuff.
edit: actually, I cancelled my order. You do have some good points. Going to think about this a little more...
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
You don't need an AIO for intel. Yes, they run hotter than AMD, but they're also designed to run about 10 degrees hotter, and won't throttle until you hit 100 degrees. A decent air cooler will have no problem keeping you under 85 or so. Mine rarely cracks 75.
Also nowhere close to 500W. A 13900K can theoretically pull up to 250W in all-core productivity tasks, which is a lot, but most of the time it won't be anywhere near that (and it's still a far cry from 500W).
There's no doubt Ryzen is far more power efficient, and can run even with the shitty little stock cooler, which is awesome. But you're wildly overstating the point.
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Celcius
°Temp. member
Yep I agree with you that he's overexaggerating things lol
Still though, looks like I need to do some more thinking about AM5 now vs the raptor lake refresh...
DanEON
Member
AM5 voltages issues is solved already.
Best thing about AM5 is that it's basically "plug and play". Just load default settings and you good to go with max CPU performance.
With intel I had to spend hours with overclocking tests to get the max CPU performance.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Raptor Lake refresh is not going to be very exciting, just a slight clock boost.
Don't listen to warboys, they're both great CPUs, so great that not much can even take full advantage of them right now, and they have overhead to last you years. The power consumption difference is a difference of like $8 a year. Get whatever builds the system you want.
This is not even slightly true of 13th gen intel. There's almost nothing to be gained from OC.
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nightmare-slain
Gold Member
You don't NEED an AIO but is pretty much required and yeah 500W is worst case scenario but Intel still runs hotter and uses more power.
I have a 250W rated air cooler for my 7950X3D and it can still hit 89C while pulling 155W. Compared to my old 9900K that is quite an improvement. My 9900K was doing 93-99C in the same benchmarks with the same cooler. The newer Intel CPUs are worse. I don't believe for a second that I could have got a 13900K and got around 85C lol. I have a BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4 which is basically the same (a few degress difference) as a Noctua NHD15 (the best air cooler you can get).
A 13900k can pull up to 70W in idle, 120W in single thread loads, 370W in multi threaded loads, ~490W in blender. A 7950X3D can do 35-45w idle, 60-70W single threaded, and 155W max in multi threaded loads.
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SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
No it's not, dude. My system stays perfectly good with an air cooler, it doesn't get within 20 degrees of a throttle.
Not only do you have a misconception about intel, I think you have a misconception about cooling. These AIO water coolers aren't much better at cooling than a two-fan air cooled block.
500W is a no case scenario, that's not real. Even in a blender, it's like 250-275. Yes, they run about 10 degrees hotter, but they also throttle 10 degrees hotter, so this affects literally nothing, it's just a fanboy talking point.
YES, they use more power. If you care that much about an extra 75 cents a month on your power bill, go Ryzen, fine.
So your AMD is hitting throttle limits with air cooling, while my i7-13700k is a full 35 degrees from throttle limits while running Cyberpunk maxed? Tell me more about your cooling expertise...
I have the same cooler, and honestly, dude, it sound like you have it on backwards, or have completely messed up airflow or something. Your numbers don't make sense. There is something wrong in your system, and if I were you I would be trying to figure that out right now.
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Celcius
°Temp. member
It's all good conversation though, thanks for the opinions guys.
AM5 does have some advantages like better pcie 5.0 support and more lanes, and most likely being able to reuse my NH-D14 since the cpus run cooler (noctua even sent me a free AM5 mounting hardware kit).
I usually buy Asus mobos but I would try a new brand on AM5 due to Asus's shenanigans... probably MSI or Gigabyte.
I haven't gone AMD since Athlon 64 but the 7800X3D does look attractive.
On the other hand, if I do go with Intel I see that there won't be a new chipset for the refresh so I could just update the bios and swap in the newer chip if I really wanted. I know Intel is generally better outside of games but then again games is mostly all I do besides surfing the web and Youtube/Twitch.
AM5 does have some advantages like better pcie 5.0 support and more lanes, and most likely being able to reuse my NH-D14 since the cpus run cooler (noctua even sent me a free AM5 mounting hardware kit).
I usually buy Asus mobos but I would try a new brand on AM5 due to Asus's shenanigans... probably MSI or Gigabyte.
I haven't gone AMD since Athlon 64 but the 7800X3D does look attractive.
On the other hand, if I do go with Intel I see that there won't be a new chipset for the refresh so I could just update the bios and swap in the newer chip if I really wanted. I know Intel is generally better outside of games but then again games is mostly all I do besides surfing the web and Youtube/Twitch.
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DanEON
Member
thats great then. My last intel CPU was the 8700k and I could extract a good performance boost with OC, I thought the 13rd gen was still the same.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Oh yeah, that was one of those freakishly overclockable CPUs, like Sandy Bridge or Wolfdale. It's nothing like that now.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Not only that, but even when people do manage to pull off big overclocks with extreme cooling, the real world performance gains are NOT what you would think they would be. It doesn't just scale in a linear way.
kvltus lvlzvs
Member
How future proof do you reckon a 4070 is? This year was a pretty brutal curbstomp to older hardware.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
A 4070 isn't going to face serious struggles until new consoles are out at a minimum.
Beyond that, it really depends on your stardards, right? If you're okay on medium settings and 1440p, it'll probably be just fine for a long time.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
any good atx3.0 PSUs yet?
dark power 13 getting mixed reviews.
dark power 13 pro coming soon.
kind of tempted to just tard out and get an ax1600i + some atx3.0 cables.
dark power 13 getting mixed reviews.
dark power 13 pro coming soon.
kind of tempted to just tard out and get an ax1600i + some atx3.0 cables.
flipsake
Neo Member
I'm strongly considering upgrading from my RTX 2060 to an RTX 4070 as there is currently a promotion where you get Diablo IV, I'm planning on getting the game anyway so it sort of brings the cost of the card down to £540. I was wondering if it would be worth it to add another 16GB of DDR4 RAM while I'm at it, the price for that is £52.97.
Is it worth it? I play at 1440p but do have a 4K TV hooked up to my PC for movies and TV shows, I also use the PC as a media server to stream to devices in the house so i'm thinking the extra RAM would be good for that although I'm not currently having any issues with that. Total cost for both would be £652.96.
Is it worth it? I play at 1440p but do have a 4K TV hooked up to my PC for movies and TV shows, I also use the PC as a media server to stream to devices in the house so i'm thinking the extra RAM would be good for that although I'm not currently having any issues with that. Total cost for both would be £652.96.
GHG
Member
I have a thermaltake Toughpower GF3. It's been rock solid for me so far running a 4090 and 5800x3d.
The 1200w version btw.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
eh, still have mobos pushing out voltages higher than the specified value in the BIOS (e.g., 1.3v in the BIOS, but 1.35v measured).
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
2060 to 4070 is a massive upgrade. Assuming you don't have any other major bottlenecks, that would be well worth it.
RAM, it depends on how much you have and what you're hoping to accomplish. If you already have at least 16GB, then the benefit won't be gaming, it'll be multitasking, and video editing and Adobe, that sort of thing. And past 32, there's really no point other than extreme edge cases.
But if you have less than 16, definitely get more.
nightmare-slain
Gold Member
I have an MSI one and it's great. Had it for about 5 months now. It's the MSI MPG A1000G PCIE5.
The only issue I had with it is the cables. Compared to my old PSU cables they are more difficult to work with when doing cable management. The 24 pin cable in particular is weird because you have to twist it and force it into the ports on the PSU. I mean on the PSU end there are two separate connections and when you plug in the larger one the other connection is on the left of the cable when the connection is on the right. So you gotta twist it under and force it into the port. It felt wrong but it's the only way to do it and I've had no problems so yeah.
Here is when I posted about it in the old thread
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Weird question coming but why would Dell pack a 1350W 80+Plat PSU in a 13700KF 4080 Alienware build?
More importantly when did these machines become a pretty nice QUIET gaming prebuilt?
Last time I tested one of these machine the R13 that thing sounded like a hair dryer sitting on my desk and this R15 is really quiet even pushing it pretty hard
More importantly when did these machines become a pretty nice QUIET gaming prebuilt?
Last time I tested one of these machine the R13 that thing sounded like a hair dryer sitting on my desk and this R15 is really quiet even pushing it pretty hard
HeisenbergFX4
Member
So have been pushing this Alienware today 1440p 240hz and I think Dell got pretty serious about making a nice prebuilt
The highest CPU temp I have seen was 71C and GPU of 73C and its staying fairly quiet
I know Alienware has been shit recently but looks like it started with their monitors and now this R15 but they are upping their game.
Some gripes I don't like their proprietary crap in this system but who its going to will never open it anyhow plus the ram sticks are just green PCB boards
Hard to so no though to the build with a 13700kf 4080 being an open box buy from Best Buy for $2200
The highest CPU temp I have seen was 71C and GPU of 73C and its staying fairly quiet
I know Alienware has been shit recently but looks like it started with their monitors and now this R15 but they are upping their game.
Some gripes I don't like their proprietary crap in this system but who its going to will never open it anyhow plus the ram sticks are just green PCB boards
Hard to so no though to the build with a 13700kf 4080 being an open box buy from Best Buy for $2200
Celcius
°Temp. member
If you want the best gaming experience on the planet then yes
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