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I took a trip to North Korea. (Pic heavy)
- Thread starter SuperBanana
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SuperBanana
Banned
That is what I'm saying. How is it that that got skewed?
I'm was being told by people who are acting like they know more about my trip than I do I'm "Lucky to have made it out" and not ended up in a labour camp/dead/vanish yet out of the 10,000 or so western visitors(and far more Chinese) a grand total of 1 has been arrested this year. In the history of the biggest North Korean tour company a grand total of 1 person has been arrested/killed/anything serious.
Chittagong
Gold Member
That was indeed my first impression. Many reasons for it. Everybody is working very late, so almost nobody is out and about at the hour tourists would. Also, there is virtually no cars as they don't have any gas due to the embargo. So streets are empty and nobody can get anywhere unless it's essential. Also, travel between areas is heavily regulated.
Upside is that risk of traffic accident is almost nil. But then again, so it was in Chernobyl and still a car full of drunk soldiers crashed on our bus.
Very interesting report and pictures, thanks!
I don't think I'd ever go (unless I become fatally sick or something) but nonetheless it's just so surreal and interesting, also everytime I watch a new NK documentary. The most recent one I saw you had north korean walking around with (northkorean) smartphones and stuff, looked so weird because it's against what you'd expect.
I don't think I'd ever go (unless I become fatally sick or something) but nonetheless it's just so surreal and interesting, also everytime I watch a new NK documentary. The most recent one I saw you had north korean walking around with (northkorean) smartphones and stuff, looked so weird because it's against what you'd expect.
I remember seeing an episode of a Dutch traveling program called "3 op reis" where one of the hosts goes on a tour to NK (with the biggest tour company Koryo Tours) and they also showed that when they drove between the cities it's just empty roads everywhere because intercity travel is restricted.
It was a fascinating episode to watch...
SENPAIatLARGE
Banned
If Philippine President Duerte offered you a tour would you take it?
If you could tour Nazi Germany during It's height, would you?
If you could tour Nazi Germany during It's height, would you?
Do they not have train connections? Or nobody can afford it?
SuperBanana
Banned
It's a very wide, open city. So it makes it seem less dense. There are definitely areas packed full of people though. The subways are busy and a lot of people walk or ride bikes. You see a ton of school kids when school finishes or is about to start too. There are very few cars but at night you see them driving around and there's quite a few them. People stay up LATE in NK too.
You are not allowed to ride the train unless you are given government permission, which they only do for work-related reasons.
Chittagong
Gold Member
You are just not allowed, not without a permission. The roads are totally empty between cities (there is a pic in my thread, I think).
The people who have to go bike or walk.
That's crazy. Any specific reason for that?
...it's north korea. It's a totalitarian dictatorship.
Controlling the movement of population is one of the best ways to prevent a) people from moving into higher levels of society, b) uprisings.
Born in a farming village? Cool. That's where you're stuck for the rest of your life. You're not gonna meet any outsiders who give you ideas, either.
Yes but I'd imagine there has to be some reason behind it, like there would be something they don't want them to see on the train route or they want people to stay in the same place always so they don't miss work or anything.
"control"
Knowing who's where and knowing what they are doing sounds like a good reason for it.
Fits a dictatorship like NK. You don't want people to go places they shouldn't or meet people they don't "need to" or "should" meet.
Say you had an uprising/revolt in a small part of one city. Would be easier to squash it if you didn't have people traveling to other parts of the country willy nilly.
If everyone needs a permit for even leaving a district it's way easier to control everyone and everything that happens.
FreedomFighter
Member
Glad you had a good trip, OP. Amazing photos.
The reason behind it is because they don't want their people to have the ability to mobilize and revolt. By keeping people separate and stationary, they are easier to oppress.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It's for the safety of people and unity of a prosperous Korea. Or, the dictatorship. One of the two.
Before you read, I understand not all of you will agree with someone visiting this country for moral reasons. I took that into regard and understand it.
In July I was offered a chance to go to Nazi Occupied Poland with a friend of mine. Why? Well, why not? Visiting one of the most isolated, strange, and controversial extermination camps in all the world. I think it's important to see what it's like for yourself and get a better understanding of what goes on there. It's a very unique and interesting place as well.
We started in Auschwitz where I met the tour group and we had a meeting of how everything will go down. It was all very simple stuff. We were also handed out paper creditentials which gets stamped when you enter. It's actually really easy to get the proper authorization to enter the camp there as long as you aren't a journalist or unwittingly mention to a guard that you're affiliated with the Allies.
We took a cattle class train from Krakow to Auschwitz, the very same method of transportation used to access the camp by it's numerous inhabitants. Although we were informed our own cattle car was slightly more comfortable compared to the cars the jews were used to. The train takes about 24 hours all up so it's not a quick journey.
I discovered those who say they "illegally" took photos on their trip or had to "sneak out" pictures are full of shit. As we arrive at customs it's pretty easy going. The Nazi officials take a quick check of our bags, check what electronics we have, and make a note of the cameras. One of the Nazi officers was far more interested in the cosmopolitan magazine one of the women had and after opening it to a double paged photo of a bunch of chubby naked women laying over each other he decided this item must absolutely come with him. What a riot! Good relations between the tour company and the local Obersturmbannführer make this process a lot easier too.
On the trip into the camp, we saw hundreds upon hundreds of watchful visitors (all rather skinny) behind the barbed wire fence, no doubt eager to greet us into the compound. The camp guards who accompanied us wouldn't let them speak, however. No doubt they didn't want them spoiling our tour!
Welcome to the camp!
As we began our tour of the camp grounds, we couldn't help but notice a great upsurge of ash rising into the sky. The nearest tour guide kindly explained to us that if we merely diverted our attention from the ominous, terrifying sight...it wouldn't exist, and therefore wouldn't be able to trouble us morally. Turns out, she was right! Next up...we met several members of the staff who worked there.
Here they are launching into song! Such high spirits! We would have all joined in, if only we spoke German!
A cigarette break:
On our way over to lunch we asked a nearby aide what the gas chambers on the other side of the compound were for. Turns out no-one would tell us. Apparently though, only the camp's inhabitants can use the chambers on that side of the camp. No one else.
Later, we were very generously asked to dine outside the camp grounds with some of the senior Nazi officials. The food we had was actually pretty nice, which was good because it allowed us to be distracted from the overwhelming human suffering and misery that lay just outside of the carefully constructed facade that our guides had purposefully created for us. They give you a pretty wide range and it's all tasty. The whole experience felt very strange though. Through the barbered wire fence, we asked some of the camps bald and emancipated residents if they would have liked to join us in stuffing our faces, but they just stared at us. They were just standing there waiting and it's a little weird.
This is also one of our Nazi guides, Rudolf Höss. He was actually really awesome. More on the guides later though!
You see a lot of these propaganda photographs around.
Overall, it's a weird country. It's strange but not as strange as I thought. As for the camp's inhabitants, here people aren't eating tree roots or fully emancipated. I can't claim I know every part of the reich but I saw as much as any westerner will ever get to see for a long time. The Nazi Government itself might be fairly fucked up but the people aren't. They're shy, respectful, and quiet. Some want to be left alone while others are very curious about the outside world. None of them know about the camps or the shit the government does. At most they hear that the government is standing up for itself against America. That's it. I think a few of them understand that Hitler's Nazi Germany isn't normal but they don't have a say in the matter and wouldn't express those opinions to an outsider. I don't know if they'd ever accept capitalism or the world ever forcefully overthrowing the government but if Adolf Hitler dropped dead and diplomatic relations actually opened up I think there could be a way to work with them. Just not while they have a leader like.
While it's morally grey to go to a country like this I'd recommend going to understand and experience it. No one left without a much better understanding of the country you see in the news almost daily. Certainly, because although I'm willfully supporting a dictatorship which only manages to perpetuate itself by inflicting human suffering upon a mass scale, I managed to get a really neat trip out of it, as well as take a few pretty cute photos!
There's probably a lot of other stuff I could say but it's a pretty big post and there's so much more to say so maybe I'll answer questions after this if anyone is curious.
On one final note I did find out one more thing while I was over there. Adolf Hitler is a Sonic the Hedgehog fan.
In July I was offered a chance to go to Nazi Occupied Poland with a friend of mine. Why? Well, why not? Visiting one of the most isolated, strange, and controversial extermination camps in all the world. I think it's important to see what it's like for yourself and get a better understanding of what goes on there. It's a very unique and interesting place as well.
We started in Auschwitz where I met the tour group and we had a meeting of how everything will go down. It was all very simple stuff. We were also handed out paper creditentials which gets stamped when you enter. It's actually really easy to get the proper authorization to enter the camp there as long as you aren't a journalist or unwittingly mention to a guard that you're affiliated with the Allies.
We took a cattle class train from Krakow to Auschwitz, the very same method of transportation used to access the camp by it's numerous inhabitants. Although we were informed our own cattle car was slightly more comfortable compared to the cars the jews were used to. The train takes about 24 hours all up so it's not a quick journey.
I discovered those who say they "illegally" took photos on their trip or had to "sneak out" pictures are full of shit. As we arrive at customs it's pretty easy going. The Nazi officials take a quick check of our bags, check what electronics we have, and make a note of the cameras. One of the Nazi officers was far more interested in the cosmopolitan magazine one of the women had and after opening it to a double paged photo of a bunch of chubby naked women laying over each other he decided this item must absolutely come with him. What a riot! Good relations between the tour company and the local Obersturmbannführer make this process a lot easier too.
On the trip into the camp, we saw hundreds upon hundreds of watchful visitors (all rather skinny) behind the barbed wire fence, no doubt eager to greet us into the compound. The camp guards who accompanied us wouldn't let them speak, however. No doubt they didn't want them spoiling our tour!
Welcome to the camp!
As we began our tour of the camp grounds, we couldn't help but notice a great upsurge of ash rising into the sky. The nearest tour guide kindly explained to us that if we merely diverted our attention from the ominous, terrifying sight...it wouldn't exist, and therefore wouldn't be able to trouble us morally. Turns out, she was right! Next up...we met several members of the staff who worked there.
Here they are launching into song! Such high spirits! We would have all joined in, if only we spoke German!
A cigarette break:
On our way over to lunch we asked a nearby aide what the gas chambers on the other side of the compound were for. Turns out no-one would tell us. Apparently though, only the camp's inhabitants can use the chambers on that side of the camp. No one else.
Later, we were very generously asked to dine outside the camp grounds with some of the senior Nazi officials. The food we had was actually pretty nice, which was good because it allowed us to be distracted from the overwhelming human suffering and misery that lay just outside of the carefully constructed facade that our guides had purposefully created for us. They give you a pretty wide range and it's all tasty. The whole experience felt very strange though. Through the barbered wire fence, we asked some of the camps bald and emancipated residents if they would have liked to join us in stuffing our faces, but they just stared at us. They were just standing there waiting and it's a little weird.
This is also one of our Nazi guides, Rudolf Höss. He was actually really awesome. More on the guides later though!
You see a lot of these propaganda photographs around.
Overall, it's a weird country. It's strange but not as strange as I thought. As for the camp's inhabitants, here people aren't eating tree roots or fully emancipated. I can't claim I know every part of the reich but I saw as much as any westerner will ever get to see for a long time. The Nazi Government itself might be fairly fucked up but the people aren't. They're shy, respectful, and quiet. Some want to be left alone while others are very curious about the outside world. None of them know about the camps or the shit the government does. At most they hear that the government is standing up for itself against America. That's it. I think a few of them understand that Hitler's Nazi Germany isn't normal but they don't have a say in the matter and wouldn't express those opinions to an outsider. I don't know if they'd ever accept capitalism or the world ever forcefully overthrowing the government but if Adolf Hitler dropped dead and diplomatic relations actually opened up I think there could be a way to work with them. Just not while they have a leader like.
While it's morally grey to go to a country like this I'd recommend going to understand and experience it. No one left without a much better understanding of the country you see in the news almost daily. Certainly, because although I'm willfully supporting a dictatorship which only manages to perpetuate itself by inflicting human suffering upon a mass scale, I managed to get a really neat trip out of it, as well as take a few pretty cute photos!
There's probably a lot of other stuff I could say but it's a pretty big post and there's so much more to say so maybe I'll answer questions after this if anyone is curious.
On one final note I did find out one more thing while I was over there. Adolf Hitler is a Sonic the Hedgehog fan.
Always-honest
Banned
Pretty cool. Thank you for sharing.
Must have been a bit surreal sometimes.
I don't think i would go there though. From what i hear there is some terrible shit going on there.
Must have been a bit surreal sometimes.
I don't think i would go there though. From what i hear there is some terrible shit going on there.
If you are talking about the Philippines, then I can assure you that it is safer here. Please don't compare our country to North Korea. Tourism is alive here.
Just to be sure, I'm not a Duterte fan.
doctorblurg
Banned
Oh my god
All this effort to shit in a thread. Congrats. Pretty sad that instead of just ignoring this thread if it doesn't fit your black/white view of the world(not that the leadership isn't badshit insane, but he didn't travel there to meet them) or posting a "Personally I would never go there" comment you instead opted for this passive-aggressive attempt of semi-witty social commentary so you can clap yourself on the shoulder.
the_batman
Banned
Just a reminder that recently while thousands of NK are displaced and possibly dead from severe flooding, Kim Jong Un is busy testing his nukes.
Then they had the gall to ask for international help.
Then they had the gall to ask for international help.
:-|
Yes, let's get back to our conversation about the logical reasons why travel is restricted in North Korea
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Op I think it is really unfortunate you helped prop up this awful regime
Chittagong
Gold Member
Out of interest, are there many non-Americans in the 'OP shouldn't have gone' camp?
Cobalt Izuna isn't American. Neither is SymbiantXenos. In fact, the first two people who posted in this topic weren't American.
| Praxis |
Banned
Cool photos. I love communist architecture.
Fenderputty
Banned
Safety concerns aside, if visiting Iran and Syria is only possible via government sponsored tours, I would draw the line there as well.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
To extrapolate on what others said North Korea limits citizens travel outside of their given region. Well you can technically go through a process to give permission to travel it would take months with no gurantee of them every getting back to you. Now the local government officials in North Korea are quite corrupt (Not a bad thing when the national government is super corrupt) and so bribes will go a long way but they can cost like 15 to 30 equivalent USD so even for the richest jangmadang (the primitive free market outside of the government ) owners this is a steep sum.
SuperBanana
Banned
Are you seriously comparing Pyongyang to Auschwitz? That's kind of fucked up honestly. That's beyond hyperbolic.
No, it isn't.
I feel like South Koreans would disagree with you here.
North Koreans, as well.
I always hate these North Korea threads because they feel so fake. I don't need to set foot in the country to know that the majority of farmlands and communities in the country don't even come close to looking like this. I want to see pics of people living in poverty in broken down houses just like any other country. Every single pic I have seen from tourist is exacly the same I actually feel like I know every step of this sponsored tour like the back of my hand even thought I haven't been there.
the_batman
Banned
Pyongyang compared to Auschwitz is hyperbolic only because Pyongyang is THE place in NK where all the privileged people live. But what about the forced labor/death camps outside the city where they can force generations of a family to be?
SuperBanana
Banned
I wasn't one of the people giving you grief for merely taking the trip, but rather for stuff like this that reads like "In Defense of North Korea"... I don't think your thread overall would have gotten so much flak if this stuff wasn't sprinkled throughout your OP and follow-up replies. At least others who have taken this trip are aware of what kind of place they were really visiting and didn't walk away bamboozled by the layers of propaganda.
Kang Chol-Hwan, a survivor of the Yodok prison camp, in his book Aquariums of Pyongyang said the whole country is a con. Seeing those photos of those happy kids, and then remembering how Chol-Hwan describes how [really young] school kids get regularly beaten and killed by teachers inside NK's camps, for things such as falling asleep in "class", was just...
No, I am not going that place.
I've been to Varadero in Cuba. There's some nice communist style architecture sprinkled about there. I hope to go back someday, before the American tourists swarm in.
You probably had more of a Truman show experience than you realize if you think that was a typical store:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/46ahkv/illegal_photo_offlimits_shop_in_north_korea_i_had/
Even many of the well dressed people you see hanging around stores outside or whatever are actors, there are some funny travel logs where they document a woman carrying a suitcase back and forth on the same station all day, etc.
Shall I read you some excerpts from Nothing to Envy about people in Pyongyang starving to death as well?
But wait, you're about to tell me that doesn't go on, right?
I'm sure the people inside North Korea's concentration camps are in tip top shape.
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