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I took a trip to North Korea. (Pic heavy)

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Dalibor68

Banned
Pyongyang compared to Auschwitz is hyperbolic only because Pyongyang is THE place in NK where all the privileged people live. But what about the forced labor/death camps outside the city where they can forced generations of a family to be?

So North Korea is trying to conquer the whole continent and industrially exterminate anyone it considers subhuman by race, leading to millions killed within a few years?

Can't believe I'm having to defend NK here lol. But this hyperbole is ridiculous. Their labor- and deathcamps are horrible enough. It's not a contest of who's more horrible. And if it was then they certainly wouldn't be #1 in terms of numbers, motivation and method.
 

Izuna

Banned
As it turns out, this isn't a thread just about pictures from North Korea, it's also about defending North Korea. Hmm
 

Big-E

Member
Ok. Exactly the same.
BkzPViy.jpg

Romani-children_Auschwitz.GIF

Come the fuck on. Educate yourself about life in the camps. There are books out there from people who were there. What they described is pretty much only seen in Nazi Germany. I could post photos of little German children going to school in 1945. Think a bit and realize you may be a little gullible.
 

Dalibor68

Banned
You really should read up on this whole "North Korea" thing.

Instead of throwing out a garbage empty non-reply like this, maybe reply to the content of the question. It is extremely respectless and incorrect to say this is the same as the Holocaust. And the comparison wasn't Auschwitz vs North Korean labor/death camps but Auschwitz vs Pyongyang.
 
Because they have literal death camps where the guards force starving children of political prisoners to beat each other to death.

It'd be like touring Nazi Germany because you find death squads morbidly fascinating. You've literally turned their suffering into your entertainment.
Yep. Visiting North Korea for pleasure is indefensible. You are an immoral person, OP, if you did this while fully aware of the atrocities this regime commits and which you have helped fund.

Also everything you saw was controlled. You didn't see the starving rural people who have resorted to cannibalism or the slaves in those death camps.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Not an argument worth having, OP. There are people who will never accept you went to DPRK. It's natural to want to stand up to your view and explain it, but my experience from my similar thread is that it's no use - just acknowlwdge the hate and share your experience.
 
Shall I read you some excerpts from Nothing to Fear about people in Pyongyang starving to death as well?

But wait, you're about to tell me that doesn't go on, right?

Yep. That's exactly right. The camps don't exist. I mean, sure we spoke about the camps in NK, discussed them with the guide and the morality of it, I even mentioned them in the first post but thankfully expert NK GAF is here to reeducate me on my trip and that I'm wrong about everything, I didn't actually see or speak to anyone friendly and I'm literally Hitler, I spent my days laughing and drinking surrounded by inmates of camps, and even got a good ol'snapshot of a gas chamber.
 
Do they not have train connections? Or nobody can afford it?

All this effort to shit in a thread. Congrats. Pretty sad that instead of just ignoring this thread if it doesn't fit your black/white view of the world(not that the leadership isn't badshit insane, but he didn't travel there to meet them) or posting a "Personally I would never go there" comment you instead opted for this passive-aggressive attempt of semi-witty social commentary so you can clap yourself on the shoulder.
Your ignorant shit above is much worse, "nobody travels they all poor duuh??"

Spacewolf is pretty much spot on.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Instead of throwing out a garbage empty non-reply like this, maybe reply to the content of the question. It is extremely respectless and incorrect to say this is the same as the Holocaust. And the comparison wasn't Auschwitz vs North Korean labor/death camps but Auschwitz vs Pyongyang.

North Korea kills millions of people in the name of racial purity, yes.
 
Before you read, I understand not all of you will agree with someone visiting this country for moral reasons. I took that into regard and understand it.

Well that was a hoot or two.

Out of interest, are there many non-Americans in the 'OP shouldn't have gone' camp?

I'm not american. I'm also not saying OP shouldn't have gone. But going and then perpetuating the exact sort of bullshit NK wants you to is irresponsible, reprehensible and just makes you look like a tool. You're not enlightened for taking that carousel ride. You bought into the ride, managing to pretty much disregard all the suffering that takes place beyond Pyongyang. It's not supposed to be a trip you recommend to others.

Post #344 jesus christ I'm shaking my head in disbelief.
 

Foggy

Member
I think your tour guide needs a raise.

LMAO for real

My guess is OP is buying into a narrative of inclusivity and that this demonized country isn't so different than what we all experience. Just y'know, a little strange.

Homeboy picked the wrong country, though.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Yep. That's exactly right. The camps don't exist. I mean, sure we spoke about the camps in NK, discussed them with the guide and the morality of it, I even mentioned them in the first post but thankfully expert NK GAF is here to reeducate me on my trip and that I'm wrong about everything, I didn't actually see or speak to anyone friendly and I'm literally Hitler, I spent my days laughing and drinking surrounded by inmates of camps, and even got a good ol'snapshot of a gas chamber.

I'm not talking about camps.

I'm talking about people starving in the streets of Pyongyang, the capitol. The "good" part of north korea.

Because it happens.
 
Before you read, I understand not all of you will agree with someone visiting this country for moral reasons. I took that into regard and understand it.

In July I was offered a chance to go to Nazi Occupied Poland with a friend of mine. Why? Well, why not? Visiting one of the most isolated, strange, and controversial extermination camps in all the world. I think it's important to see what it's like for yourself and get a better understanding of what goes on there. It's a very unique and interesting place as well.

auschwitz-birkenau-camps-de-mort.jpg


We started in Auschwitz where I met the tour group and we had a meeting of how everything will go down. It was all very simple stuff. We were also handed out paper creditentials which gets stamped when you enter. It's actually really easy to get the proper authorization to enter the camp there as long as you aren't a journalist or unwittingly mention to a guard that you're affiliated with the Allies.

We took a cattle class train from Krakow to Auschwitz, the very same method of transportation used to access the camp by it's numerous inhabitants. Although we were informed our own cattle car was slightly more comfortable compared to the cars the jews were used to. The train takes about 24 hours all up so it's not a quick journey.

I discovered those who say they "illegally" took photos on their trip or had to "sneak out" pictures are full of shit. As we arrive at customs it's pretty easy going. The Nazi officials take a quick check of our bags, check what electronics we have, and make a note of the cameras. One of the Nazi officers was far more interested in the cosmopolitan magazine one of the women had and after opening it to a double paged photo of a bunch of chubby naked women laying over each other he decided this item must absolutely come with him. What a riot! Good relations between the tour company and the local Obersturmbannführer make this process a lot easier too.

1949bdfd1eddfea1b79ff0be5d25037a344006dc_s660x390.jpg


On the trip into the camp, we saw hundreds upon hundreds of watchful visitors (all rather skinny) behind the barbed wire fence, no doubt eager to greet us into the compound. The camp guards who accompanied us wouldn't let them speak, however. No doubt they didn't want them spoiling our tour!

c9TckbP.jpg


Welcome to the camp!

As we began our tour of the camp grounds, we couldn't help but notice a great upsurge of ash rising into the sky. The nearest tour guide kindly explained to us that if we merely diverted our attention from the ominous, terrifying sight...it wouldn't exist, and therefore wouldn't be able to trouble us morally. Turns out, she was right! Next up...we met several members of the staff who worked there.

Here they are launching into song! Such high spirits! We would have all joined in, if only we spoke German!

f4f3c49d44d0725da76d39cac9662cd7.jpg


A cigarette break:

Auschwitz-SS_officers.GIF


On our way over to lunch we asked a nearby aide what the gas chambers on the other side of the compound were for. Turns out no-one would tell us. Apparently though, only the camp's inhabitants can use the chambers on that side of the camp. No one else.

original


Later, we were very generously asked to dine outside the camp grounds with some of the senior Nazi officials. The food we had was actually pretty nice, which was good because it allowed us to be distracted from the overwhelming human suffering and misery that lay just outside of the carefully constructed facade that our guides had purposefully created for us. They give you a pretty wide range and it's all tasty. The whole experience felt very strange though. Through the barbered wire fence, we asked some of the camps bald and emancipated residents if they would have liked to join us in stuffing our faces, but they just stared at us. They were just standing there waiting and it's a little weird.

This is also one of our Nazi guides, Rudolf Höss. He was actually really awesome. More on the guides later though!

220px-SS-Sturmbannf%C3%BChrer_Rudolf_H%C3%B6%C3%9F.jpg


You see a lot of these propaganda photographs around.

wille.jpg


220px-Bolschewismus_ohne_Maske2.jpg


Overall, it's a weird country. It's strange but not as strange as I thought. As for the camp's inhabitants, here people aren't eating tree roots or fully emancipated. I can't claim I know every part of the reich but I saw as much as any westerner will ever get to see for a long time. The Nazi Government itself might be fairly fucked up but the people aren't. They're shy, respectful, and quiet. Some want to be left alone while others are very curious about the outside world. None of them know about the camps or the shit the government does. At most they hear that the government is standing up for itself against America. That's it. I think a few of them understand that Hitler's Nazi Germany isn't normal but they don't have a say in the matter and wouldn't express those opinions to an outsider. I don't know if they'd ever accept capitalism or the world ever forcefully overthrowing the government but if Adolf Hitler dropped dead and diplomatic relations actually opened up I think there could be a way to work with them. Just not while they have a leader like.

While it's morally grey to go to a country like this I'd recommend going to understand and experience it. No one left without a much better understanding of the country you see in the news almost daily. Certainly, because although I'm willfully supporting a dictatorship which only manages to perpetuate itself by inflicting human suffering upon a mass scale, I managed to get a really neat trip out of it, as well as take a few pretty cute photos!

tumblr_nq27x9U5XZ1sg4492o1_400.jpg


There's probably a lot of other stuff I could say but it's a pretty big post and there's so much more to say so maybe I'll answer questions after this if anyone is curious.

On one final note I did find out one more thing while I was over there. Adolf Hitler is a Sonic the Hedgehog fan.

Holy shit
 

OmegaFax

Member
Did GPS work there? Were photos taken from your phone properly geotagged or are location signals jammed (if that's possible).
 

Nepenthe

Member
My overall feelings:

North Korea is an overall shitty place full of unimaginable human rights abuses and crumbling infrastructure. Pyongyang is not perfectly comparable to Auschwitz since it's, well, not actually a concentration camp.

Propaganda lines the streets that preaches about the glory of the government and the unabashed evil of the west which only serves to obscure the horrors going on out of sight. However, not every North Korean citizen has bought into it and acts as some automaton even if they can't articulate the reasons why as well as someone with a third-person perspective could; I'd even be willing to wager a significant portion of the population isn't indoctrinated with the totalitarianism governing their lives.

As a foreigner, you are probably not at significant risk traveling there so long as you follow the rules of the tour. However, I would never travel there nor advise anyone else to because I don't agree with supporting such an aggressive regime so directly. It's a much easier and more informed choice to make than to go without all manner of communication, clothing, and food that are in part produced by suffering but nonetheless several degrees removed from informed decision-making or a reasonable living standard, making said comparisons similarly flawed.
 

Big-E

Member
Instead of throwing out a garbage empty non-reply like this, maybe reply to the content of the question. It is extremely respectless and incorrect to say this is the same as the Holocaust. And the comparison wasn't Auschwitz vs North Korean labor/death camps but Auschwitz vs Pyongyang.

Auschwitz when discussed is a camp so why compare a camp to a city. Compare camps to camps. I am sure I could find lovely photos of the town of Oswiecim in 1944.
 
It's really strange reading the OP, seeing that he thinks he got some "non on rails stuff".

OP, everything you saw and did was completely, 100% preplanned and telegraphed. Those kids you saw happily strolling about? Yea, those were most likely selected kids waiting for your group to come walking by. Nothing you saw was genuine.

I can't help but feel like these tour groups are basically like the Truman Show.

They are
 
Yep. That's exactly right. The camps don't exist. I mean, sure we spoke about the camps in NK, discussed them with the guide and the morality of it, I even mentioned them in the first post but thankfully expert NK GAF is here to reeducate me on my trip and that I'm wrong about everything, I didn't actually see or speak to anyone friendly and I'm literally Hitler, I spent my days laughing and drinking surrounded by inmates of camps, and even got a good ol'snapshot of a gas chamber.

The lack of self awareness in this post is astounding.
 

Persona7

Banned
I can't imagine the mental gymnastics and lack of empathy someone would have to actually decide to visit that country and support their government financially.
 

.JayZii

Banned
Yep. That's exactly right. The camps don't exist. I mean, sure we spoke about the camps in NK, discussed them with the guide and the morality of it, I even mentioned them in the first post but thankfully expert NK GAF is here to reeducate me on my trip and that I'm wrong about everything, I didn't actually see or speak to anyone friendly and I'm literally Hitler, I spent my days laughing and drinking surrounded by inmates of camps, and even got a good ol' snapshot of a gas chamber.
Apparently North Korea isn't the only insecure one.
 
Thank you for going OP. The best course of action for North Korea is normalization and treating them like human beings.

To go with your analogy about the "weird, boastful, kid" some people see others like that and they're inclined to further ostracize and silo them off, punish them and reinforce their mental wall, where as we know that socialization and attempts to include them tear down the mental walls.

The government tells them that Americans are bad, yet every opportunity an American gets to show them that we are merely people, just like them.
 
Not an argument worth having, OP. There are people who will never accept you went to DPRK. It's natural to want to stand up to your view and explain it, but my experience from my similar thread is that it's no use - just acknowlwdge the hate and share your experience.

This is true. I never actually said NK is fine or that bad thinks don't happen. I thought I made it very clear in the first post what I thought of that but the way it's been twisted from "I think the government is bad and it's a fucked up country but it was an interesting experience and the people are nice to "I visited the camps(who don't exist, duh!) and laughed at dying kids of the holocaust while endorsing and publically funding Kim Jong Un's entire dictatorship. I love NK. It's the best" is kind of staggering. I knew I'd get some hate but people are just pulling shit out of their arse at this point. Get over it.

Did GPS work there? Were photos taken from your phone properly geotagged or are location signals jammed (if that's possible).

Jammed. Nothing worked. My phone was nothing but a spare camera there. Only NK sim cards work and they do have internet but only government officials have them. The guide used it once to send a message but that's it.
 

Dalibor68

Banned
Now share a picture of kids growing up in the labor camps of North Korea!

...read the thread. He didn't make the comparison. The comparison that was made by someone else was Pyongyang = Auschwitz, which is both incorrect and stupid to begin with because you're comparing a city to a concentration camp. I have no doubt that from what I've read the camps themselves are/were more or less equally horrifying of course.

It still works though as Oswiecim must have been lovely when a couple of blocks down the road you have a horrific death camp. Same thing with NK.

Village with 30k(?) inhabitants back then vs city of 4 million.
 
OP why do you keep saying death camps dont exist in North Korea

are you being sarcastic and mocking the guys who are shitting on you, or are you actually serious?

Edit: Ah, you are being sarcastic, I think. My sarcasm detector is kinda borked in this thread with all the godwins law
 

Krejlooc

Banned
...read the thread. He didn't make the comparison. The comparison that was made by someone else was Pyongyang = Auschwitz, which is both incorrect and stupid to begin with because you're comparing a city to a concentration camp. I have no doubt that from what I've read the camps themselves are/were more or less equally horrifying of course.

I question how much you've read, considering your questions on North Korean travel.
 
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