MrAngryFace
Banned
TEACH ME (and maybe we can talk about other characters too, in this sf3 thread)
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I WANT TO LEARN MAKOTO!
- Thread starter MrAngryFace
- Start date
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Well you see, there was a time when every Street Fighter character made sense, and you could be at least be competent with everyone (slight challenge with Dhalsim maybe, but thats it). But now you have people like Makoto, and it's weird, also kind of annoying to have people you just suck at. Scrubs shouldn't be able to beat me no matter what character I choose!Ferrio said:
I know she is more ground-focused than other characters. I know she is slow but has a good forward dash. I know her moves hit hard, which usually knocks people down so they are hard to combo. I know... she doesn't make sense!
My friend and I have a really hard time pulling off the Karakasu to standing fierce to Abare TosaNami super combo and making it all connect. You've done it a few times in video form on here, Ferrio, but we can't make them connect no matter how fast we think we're doing it. We've tried it at different distances as well and we just can't seem to make it land at all. Any tips? My friend would love you if you could help him figure it out as Makoto is one of his favorite characters.
She only knocks people down if you want to. (IE ex moves).
Well what part does he have trouble? Karakusa->Fierce should be pretty easy. As for connecting the super you gotta know what distance you're going for. First of all you can't connect if your opponent is on their half of the screen. But for specific distances:
LK-When your right in the corner, literally with your back against it.
MK-Close to the corner but not touching it.
HK-When you're opponent is near the middle of the screen on your side.
It should connect as long as you actually combo the SA from the Fierce Punch. If you're just not fast enough to do it.. well then it's just an issue of practice.
Good Makoto Normals and Basics-
Here's a nice list of normals that should be used and their uses.
Crouching Light Kick- Your basic low combo starter for makoto. Most commonly used for LP->LP Hayate. Also used to combo her SAI. Small ass range.
Crouching Medium Kick - One of makoto's most abusive moves. Long range, big hit box (his crouching, jumping whatever). You can really annoy the hell out of your opponents with this one, but don't get too abusive or you'll be parry bait.
Crouching Heavy Kick- Anti Air move. Also used in mixups to keep your opponent from jumping away.
Crouching Medium Punch - A good combo starter move. Has a nice range and goes into a Fierce Hayate. Though it doesn't hit low.
Crouching Heavy Punch - Makotos sweep. It's a sweep, got nice range ect.
Standing Light Kick - Used mostly in Makoto's karakara.
Standing Medium Punch - Makoto's meaty attack. Good for use on waking opponents and starting combos.
Standing Fierce Punch - Makoto's classic followup to the karakusa (her throw).
Jumping Medium Kick - Makoto's jump in and cross up.
Jumping Heavy Kick - Good for air to air attacks, and starting a combo on dizzied character.
Jumping Heavy Punch - Decent jump in, and good for air to air. Good stun damage so nice to end combos with.
Makoto's dash (F,F). - If you're not using makoto's dash then you might as well pick another character. Fastest dash in the game, and combined with her command t hrow it makes her a beast. Good for a nice dash into to a t hrow, or dash under a jumping opponent.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Now lets talk about Q, and how awesome he is! Its all about HAND SLAP!
Well I think it can only be done on ibuki, and only if your opponent is a complete moron.
First you need to do All 3 of makoto's taunts (hold HP+HK until she's done). Then do makoto's SAIII. Then have ibuki jump above makoto, or do her dash special. Then makoto does a dp+HP to launch and follow up with a qcb+hk (air).
First you need to do All 3 of makoto's taunts (hold HP+HK until she's done). Then do makoto's SAIII. Then have ibuki jump above makoto, or do her dash special. Then makoto does a dp+HP to launch and follow up with a qcb+hk (air).
Neo_ZX said:
A god damn lot I would think. But the problem is no one is ever going to let you complete all 3 phases of her taunt. Getting one in is a challenge. Makoto already has 100% or near that (mattering on who you fight) that are possible in matches, so no need to worry about that stupid 2 hit thing.
Well yes, I'm actually quite good against people in SFA (just starting to play SFIII) but in this case it's not really faking out the AI that's hard.
It's because the AI so obviously reads your input (on 8 stars) that forces you to read ahead of their read ahead to have something ready for them when they counter your move.
Combine that to how when the computer is losing they'll turn up the input reading and the fact that Gill can resurrect.
Oh and I still haven't gotten parrying down to a reaction. Still need to think about it and get it more accurate. I can only do about 80% parrying on Sean's bonus stage.
It's because the AI so obviously reads your input (on 8 stars) that forces you to read ahead of their read ahead to have something ready for them when they counter your move.
Combine that to how when the computer is losing they'll turn up the input reading and the fact that Gill can resurrect.
Oh and I still haven't gotten parrying down to a reaction. Still need to think about it and get it more accurate. I can only do about 80% parrying on Sean's bonus stage.
MrAngryFace
Banned
I cant play alpha any more, III makes it seem all empty and eh.
I always liked the psychological aspects of all Street Fighter games. Ever since they put the overheads in the game (different types and the universal ones), the game has become much more nasty when it comes to messing with a knocked down players head. No longer can someone simply turtle their way to victory. There's so many factors to worry about that simply attempting a parry or block could mean doom. The CPU kind of "cheats" you out of those possibilities though. Kinda lame.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Alpha 2 > Alpha 3. A3 has too many isms for me.
MrAngryFace
Banned
Alpha 2 has better stages, music, and rounded roster I think. Lets fight about it.
Specials:
Hayate (qcf+p) -The work horse of makoto's arsenal. Mainly used as a combo ender, a successfully landed Hayate can lead to a lot of mixups.
Examples of mixups after a hayate:
Hayate, Karakusa (hcb+K) - After a landed hayate both you and your opponent will recovery at pretty much the same time (don't know the exact frame adv/dis). If you do her command throw after a hayate it will grab them if they stood still or will snuff most of their counter attacks. It's very evil, and people new to the game will eat it everytime. People used to this tactic will know how to counter it, but it's a guessing game to them still. If they guess wrong they get grabbed and you start your combo over yet again.
Hayate, c lk XX lp hayate - Follow up a hayate with a quick low hit into another hayate. This will reset the guessing games over again.
Hayate, s mp XX hp hayate - Try to snuff a UOH if they try it. Not somethig I use much
Hayate, s mp, karakusa - Go for the tick throw.
Hayate, cr hk - Good if they try to jump away. The crouching heavy kick will catch them if they think you were going for a karakusa.
Hayate, EX Tsurugi (qcb+kk) - Do the EX tsurugi right off the ground. Good if they try a throw attempt.
So you see, landing a hayate starts a lot of guessing games. Since makoto dishes out stun really fast, if they guess wrong a few times they'll end up being dizzied quick.
EX Hayate (qcf+pp) - Like her regular hayate, but causes knockdown. Used for a combo ender especially in the corner. Works good for trying to push your opponent in the corner too. Unlike the regular Hayate, an EX hayate cannot be punished if blocked. So if you fuck up and they block it, or you just want to throw it outside of a combo you should be fine unless they parry.
In the corner the EX hayate can be followed up with another hit. This is usually another hayate (causes knockdown) or a f+lk for the reset (discussed later).
Hayate (qcf+p) -The work horse of makoto's arsenal. Mainly used as a combo ender, a successfully landed Hayate can lead to a lot of mixups.
Examples of mixups after a hayate:
Hayate, Karakusa (hcb+K) - After a landed hayate both you and your opponent will recovery at pretty much the same time (don't know the exact frame adv/dis). If you do her command throw after a hayate it will grab them if they stood still or will snuff most of their counter attacks. It's very evil, and people new to the game will eat it everytime. People used to this tactic will know how to counter it, but it's a guessing game to them still. If they guess wrong they get grabbed and you start your combo over yet again.
Hayate, c lk XX lp hayate - Follow up a hayate with a quick low hit into another hayate. This will reset the guessing games over again.
Hayate, s mp XX hp hayate - Try to snuff a UOH if they try it. Not somethig I use much
Hayate, s mp, karakusa - Go for the tick throw.
Hayate, cr hk - Good if they try to jump away. The crouching heavy kick will catch them if they think you were going for a karakusa.
Hayate, EX Tsurugi (qcb+kk) - Do the EX tsurugi right off the ground. Good if they try a throw attempt.
So you see, landing a hayate starts a lot of guessing games. Since makoto dishes out stun really fast, if they guess wrong a few times they'll end up being dizzied quick.
EX Hayate (qcf+pp) - Like her regular hayate, but causes knockdown. Used for a combo ender especially in the corner. Works good for trying to push your opponent in the corner too. Unlike the regular Hayate, an EX hayate cannot be punished if blocked. So if you fuck up and they block it, or you just want to throw it outside of a combo you should be fine unless they parry.
In the corner the EX hayate can be followed up with another hit. This is usually another hayate (causes knockdown) or a f+lk for the reset (discussed later).
Fukiage (dp+p) - Mostly used in juggles, and to punish crossups. It can also grounded opponents during moves, but these are specific and I generally don't use it that way.
If connected it allows a great juggle opportunity for Makoto. Generally I'll follow up with a Tsurugi (qcb+mk), then a hayate. Also instead of going for a knockdown juggle you can try and go for the reset throw. After a connected Fukiage do a crouching rounchouse to hit them out of the air. As they land and recover, dash foward and command t hrow them.
Also the Fukiage does AWESOME stun damage, if you really want to get your opponent dizzied this is what you use.
EX Fukiage (dp+pp) - Gives your Fukiage more range. Nice if you need the additional range, but maybe you might want to use a kara-fukiage instead.
If connected it allows a great juggle opportunity for Makoto. Generally I'll follow up with a Tsurugi (qcb+mk), then a hayate. Also instead of going for a knockdown juggle you can try and go for the reset throw. After a connected Fukiage do a crouching rounchouse to hit them out of the air. As they land and recover, dash foward and command t hrow them.
Also the Fukiage does AWESOME stun damage, if you really want to get your opponent dizzied this is what you use.
EX Fukiage (dp+pp) - Gives your Fukiage more range. Nice if you need the additional range, but maybe you might want to use a kara-fukiage instead.
anotheriori
Member
SFAC guide get! yay for frame data
DarkGiygas
Member
Sean owns, his hurricane kick is too quick and has no recovery.Ferrio said:
I was trying to learn Dudley earlier tonight. I love cancelling into supers from hcf+k - it's unnecessary, but it just looks SO COOL, especially with his Dempsey roll-ish super. It's totally Ippo. My joystick skills are raw still, so I can't do it consistently yet, but I'll keep practicing.
Does anyone have any pointers or strategies for Dudley? I know all his moves and punch chains but don't know when they're appropriate. My best regular combo with him is probably jumping fierce -> standing roundhouse -> fierce rocket uppercut. It gets me four hits and decent damage, but I'd like more of a ground game. As it is right now, I try my best to get in close with dashes and hcf+k, then go for combos or work an up/down offense. It doesn't work very well; I have much more success just repeatedly doing that jump-in combo ad nauseum against the CPU. So yeah, help!
Does anyone have any pointers or strategies for Dudley? I know all his moves and punch chains but don't know when they're appropriate. My best regular combo with him is probably jumping fierce -> standing roundhouse -> fierce rocket uppercut. It gets me four hits and decent damage, but I'd like more of a ground game. As it is right now, I try my best to get in close with dashes and hcf+k, then go for combos or work an up/down offense. It doesn't work very well; I have much more success just repeatedly doing that jump-in combo ad nauseum against the CPU. So yeah, help!
I'd just like to say that this SF III renaissance ever since Daigo's Evo match totally rules. Yay for timeless games.
I've been taking notes too. I've been trying to learn Makoto, too, of late. I play as the shotos way too much and never really gave the other fighters in SF III a chance, so I'm trying to correct that starting with Makoto. I think I'm already better with her than I ever was with Ken and Ryu.
Makoto rocks. I've also gained a new appreciation for Dudley, but he's not really my type of fighter.
I've been taking notes too. I've been trying to learn Makoto, too, of late. I play as the shotos way too much and never really gave the other fighters in SF III a chance, so I'm trying to correct that starting with Makoto. I think I'm already better with her than I ever was with Ken and Ryu.
Makoto rocks. I've also gained a new appreciation for Dudley, but he's not really my type of fighter.
WTF, frame differences? I always assumed the DC version was spot-on with the arcade except for sound - maybe my ears are retarded, but I swear it sounds different. Oh well, whatever, it still rocks to have this at home. Is the PS2 version "arcade perfect" other than visually?
Anyway, thanks to Ferrio for the pointers. Those combos sound great, although perhaps a bit difficult for me to do since I HATE cancelling from a crouch with my joystick. Half the time I do that with the punch button I end up cancelling into a super or shory-move, don't ask me how. I'll play some later tonight though.
Anyway, thanks to Ferrio for the pointers. Those combos sound great, although perhaps a bit difficult for me to do since I HATE cancelling from a crouch with my joystick. Half the time I do that with the punch button I end up cancelling into a super or shory-move, don't ask me how. I'll play some later tonight though.
DarkGiygas
Member
A good ground chain is forward+mk, mk, fp.Takuan said:
Or try this one: rk, ex machinegun blow, jab machinegun blow, ducking uppercut with either weak or medium kick XX SA1 or SA3. You can also start it off with a jumping roundhouse.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Nice to see my favorite SFIII character get some love. My only piece of advice, since I'm not qualified to really give any, is to really learn how to implement her dash. It can drive people nuts.