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[Spike Spiegel]

Hey, spoiler tags serve a purpose.

Having just read #6, I feel it's safe to say that

Spoiler

Atom really is the culprit, and not some villain using his tech. As for motive, more than ever I believe the whole thing was a scheme to get back together with his ex-wife Jean. What was the cause of their breakup in the first place? Was it his life as a superhero that came between them?

Here's the setup:

Spoiler

Ray infiltrates the Dibny household using his amazing shrinking powers, then kills Sue by causing blood clots to form in her brain. Then, he torches the body; the fire would be viewed as the cause of death initially and, even if that ruse was seen through, investigators would still suspect an external injury and not an internal one. It's just Ray's misfortune (or stupidity) that he underestimated Dr. Mid-Nite's forensic skills, and Batman's prowess as a detective.

Sue's death would send the superhero community into a panic, and they'd immediately suspect a villain - especially the JLA members who knew Dr. Light raped Sue. There'd be no heat on Atom as a suspect, and he could further remove any cause for suspicion by pretending to participate in the hunt for the real killer, all the while planning out the next step in his big scheme to get back together with Jean.

Ray stages the attack on his ex-wife Jean, again bypassing the ridiculously advanced security systems using his powers. He "tries" to kill her using a method that A) points to a villain, and B) is slow enough to give him plenty of time to come to her rescue. It was a bit of a gamble, sure, but it payed off; Ray "saves the day" for his ex-wife, opening the door for their reconciliation, which was his motive all along.

With Ray's goal realized, his next step was to set up a patsy for Sue's murder, Jean's attempted murder, and the threats against the other loved ones of the superhero community. So he contacts Calculator anonymously, and orders up a hit on Jack Drake. Calculator, knowing Boomerang has fallen on hard times, throws the guy a bone and gives him the contract. I don't believe Ray really wants Jack Drake to die, though, which is why he sneaks into the guy's house and leaves the gun and note telling him to protect himself. When Boomerang showed up to kill him, Jack was supposed to shoot the villain in self-defense, and in doing so bring "the killer" to justice.

So in the end, Sue's "killer" would be dead at the hands of his next intended victim, Ray and Jean would be a couple again, and all would be right with the world.

Unfortunately, things didn't quite turn out that way.

And the thing about

Spoiler

Batman being mind-wiped by Zatanna and the others is totally f*cked up, but it kinda makes sense given how panicked they were at getting caught. Bruce would not have been able to keep their secret; he might seem like an "any means necessary" kind of guy, but there's no way his moral code would let him look the other way and allow something like that to continue. He would've told the others in the JLA (Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc.), and the resulting sh*tstorm could very likely have resulted in the League's disbandment.

I don't think that's something they could've allowed to happen.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Spoiler

superman knows. i think he knows but has never said anything. but i cant believe that ray would sink so low to get his ex-wife back (or is it to get back at his ex-wife? did anyone see the last panels of issue #6?) i mean, he's a leaguer for god's sake.........

and what was up with dr light and that look on his face?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Spike, I think you've nailed it exacty.

Evil, you need spoiler tags.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

superman knows. i think he knows but has never said anything.

He probably knows now what those 7 members of the JLA were up to in the old days, but did he know then?

And as for Dr. Light, well... now that he's back to his old self, maybe he's thinking about paying some other superhero's wife a visit.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Spoiler

i'm only speaking in general terms, i havent really spoiled anything

Spoiler

dr light definitely wants payback, atom wants payback too....... but i cant get my mind around it...... now i know why there werre some writers at DC who punched walls when they read the script. it burned them that the atom would turn bad, if he did

 

[BuddyC]

Spike, I also think you've nailed it. But on the same note, I'm slightly hesitant to jump on that bandwagon as they could very well be pulling the wool over our eyes, but hey, that's part of the fun.

Should be interesting to see how the next issue plays out, even though I've already got the gist of it (screw you CBN and your solicitation spoilers).

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Spike, I also think you've nailed it. But on the same note, I'm slightly hesitant to jump on that bandwagon as they could very well be pulling the wool over our eyes, but hey, that's part of the fun.

Should be interesting to see how the next issue plays out, even though I've already got the gist of it (screw you CBN and your solicitation spoilers).

Hey, I hope there're still some surprises to be had too... otherwise, #7 might end up being anticlimactic. I've even been reading some of the speculation at the DC boards, where not everyone is convinced

Spoiler

that Ray's the culprit; in fact, some think it's his ex-wife Jean.

But to be honest, most of the alternate explanations and theories being put forth are downright silly; people are so desperate to believe

Spoiler

it's not the Atom

that they're really grasping at straws to prove otherwise.

And if one of those theories turn out to be true, then IC becomes the worst comic event of all time. :lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

New issue is out. I got it at lunch.

Spoiler

I was right, Jean did survive, exactly as I predicted (here or somewhere). Very cool save. Looks like the Atom is not the killer.

From a while back. And the post right after it somebody says "misdirection is everything" implying that

Spoiler

Atom could well be the killer after all.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Regarding grasping at straws:

Spoiler

Take a look at the way Ray is admiring himself in the mirror on the second to last page. It recalls the mind-swapped villains looking in the mirror earlier. It *might* not be Ray in that body. Still.... I'll bet it is.

 

[nomoment]

I'm with the majority here; looks like Spike nailed it. However, doesn't the

Spoiler

Atom

have an established fan-base? I'm a bit surprised DC would throw a semi-mainstream character like this right into the fray. I certaintly wouldn't put Firestorm, Elongated Man, and Sue Dibny in the same league as

Spoiler

the Atom

in terms of popularity.

Has he had any history of instability? Can any DC continuity nuts help out?

And as for the

Spoiler

Batman mindwipe

in the middle of the issue, totally fucked up. Some guys over at MillarWorld said this seems like an appropriate set-up for Kingdom Come, and next year's new Crisis event.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Now that I am over the surprise, I am having doubts. While

Spoiler

the Atom

may have done it, there are a ton of unanswered questions that make me think the answer is going to be more complicated than that.

Spoiler

1) How did Dr Light know the JLA would come after him?
2) Why is he smiling in the middle of this issue?
3) What, if any, signifacnce is the set-up with Bolt in issue one?

Oh, as far as mental illness-- Ray didn't ever break down outright, but he's been shown as a little off since his divorce and trip to the little-people world in Sword of the Atom.

I'm beginning to think that maybe that isn't Ray in Ray's body. Look at the way he looks in the mirror at the end of the issue. It's an echo the ot the flashback scene with the heroes swapping bodies with the villains.

I'm withdrawing my guilty verdict and waiting for next issue. Ray may have done it, but something is not right.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Now that I am over the surprise, I am having doubts. While

Spoiler

the Atom

may have done it, there are a ton of unanswered questions that make me think the answer is going to be more complicated than that.

Spoiler

1) How did Dr Light know the JLA would come after him?
2) Why is he smiling in the middle of this issue?
3) What, if any, signifacnce is the set-up with Bolt in issue one?

Oh, as far as mental illness-- Ray didn't ever break down outright, but he's been shown as a little off since his divorce and trip to the little-people world in Sword of the Atom.

I'm beginning to think that maybe that isn't Ray in Ray's body. Look at the way he looks in the mirror at the end of the issue. It's an echo the ot the flashback scene with the heroes swapping bodies with the villains.

I'm withdrawing my guilty verdict and waiting for next issue. Ray may have done it, but something is not right.

1. That's a plot hole for sure... maybe the puzzle pieces started to come together when he heard Sue Dibny was murdered; you know, repressed memories and survival instincts at work. Or maybe an "anonymous" stranger tipped Light off, and told him the League was coming after him for Sue's death.

2. Really, people are reading too much into that. In the voiceover, Ollie's talking about life getting back to normal now that the "killer" is dead. For Dr. Light, "normal" would be being his OLD old self; that is, being the kind of villain who'd do something like rape a superhero's wife. I think that scene with him, and that oh-so sinister smile, was just foreshadowing that we'll be seeing a very different, very dangerous Dr. Light in future DC comics.

3. Honestly, I think that was just a throwaway scene that A) kept Ralph away from Sue long enough for the killer to do his work, B) introduced Calculator's new role as intermediary and information broker for the DC villains, C) hinted at the brutal and ugly side of the DCU we've seen in subsequent issues, and D) doesn't reveal Luthor's involvement in IC, but hints at his return to the DCU soon.

I still say the mind-swapping theory is too hokey; Ollie's tale about that incident was just an anecdotal reference IMO. It served to illustrate his point about the vital importance of keeping their secret identities secret, and in his mind helped to justify the inner circle's actions at that time. There could be something else there, but I'm really not seeing it.

BTW, I've been going over the first 5 issues again, and I noticed something... Sue's birthday gift to Ralph was a magnifying glass. Hmmmm...

 

[DaveH]

there's always been tension in the DC universe, but yu just dont mind wipe a hero cause you dont like what he says or thinks. i think this is all hawkman's fault. he's a republican and a savage.

Isn't Hawkman an eco-terrorist in Kingdom Come? Sounds like a tree-hugger to me....

Spike's got a nice rational theory, but I think it's a little too straight-forward. I don't expect any the contortions like on the DC boards, but I think there's plenty of time for 1-2 more twists that will hopefully blow our minds and be equally rational.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Hawkman's a conservative in the purest sense, I guess.

Spike: re #2, I can see reading that sequence that way, but it may be something more sinister.

re #1, I am sure more details about what has gone on off-panel will clear this up, one way or the other.

Re #3, perhaps. It still seems a little odd, but that could just be because the narrative had just gotten going and not found it's rhthym yet.

The other nagging thing: Ralph's absence. He's a detective. It would make sense if there's something for him to solve in a comeback scene in the last issue.

The real question, at a meta-level-- are certain things plot holes or weak characterization, or are they evidence? I still don't have a great handle on the motive. If it were something as simple as we've suggested here, there woudl be easier ways to achieve it.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I was thinking about this last night... What if one more shocking murder awaits us in #7? What if

Spoiler

Ray's so far gone that he'd actually be stupid enough to confess to Jean, thinking she'd understand and be flattered by just how deep his love for her goes? What if she freaks out and rejects him... and he has to silence her?

Batman races to Jean Loring's house, breaks down the front door, and races up the stairs to the bedroom, all the while communicating with Oracle or J'onn and going over things in his head. He steadies himself, then kicks in the bedroom door, Batarang poised and ready, a look of grim determination in his eyes... a look that suddenly turns to one of shock.

Sitting at the edge of the bed is Ray Palmer. His shoulders are slumped, and his head is bowed in dejected silence. His elbows rest on his thighs, and his hands hang limply between his legs. The look on his face is one of confused resignation; his eyes gaze forward, glazed and dull, seeing nothing.

Behind him on the bed is the motionless body of his ex-wife, Jean Loring. Batman doesn't bother checking for a pulse; he's seen enough corpses in his life to know she's dead. His immediate attention is on Ray; the belt that's the source of his powers lies on the floor, only a few feet away from Ray's grasp.

BATMAN: "Ray. Don't move."

Well... you get the picture. Things could run from there.

 

[Escape Goat]

Spike, you've been thinking about this ALOT haven't you...

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Spike, you've been thinking about this ALOT haven't you...

Hey, this is the most interesting thing to happen in comics in a long time. Besides, I do most of my thinking about this kinda stuff when I'm in the shower... I've noticed I tend to space out more in there now, and think about pointless things like this IC mystery, instead of just masturbating like I did in my youth.

A sign of maturity? Or a waning libido?

 

[Escape Goat]

I got the first issue but due to insufficient funds I've been unable to keep up. I've flipped through at the store and read message board spoilers to keep abreast of the situation. Its not the same I wager

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Spike: ALong those lines, I've been thinking about what will fill a whole issues, and one is:

Spoiler

How does one capture and hold the Atom, anyway?

And, what if he's actually in on this with somebody else? How does he get the connections to call down a hit on Jack Drake anyway? What if the last issue is trying to track him down + finding out the rest of the story?

 

[draven]

Hey, this is the most interesting thing to happen in comics in a long time. Besides, I do most of my thinking about this kinda stuff when I'm in the shower... I've noticed I tend to space out more in there now, and think about pointless things like this IC mystery, instead of just masturbating like I did in my youth.

A sign of maturity? Or a waning libido?

Why can't you do both?

 

[DaveH]

Externally to the story, we're told by Meltzer that this arc will take Batman down a notch and re-establish Elongated Man as a detective. That means, in my opinion, at least one more twist... Batman deducing most of it, but Ralph figuring out the larger context.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Bleh... I need to take a break from all of this, it's affecting my productivity. With only one issue to go,

Spoiler

the Atom

has become the most likely and obvious (too obvious?) suspect. But maybe (just maybe) it's someone else, and maybe one of those farfetched theories being thrown about is the real deal. It could be

Spoiler

Jean Loring,

or

Spoiler

Calculator,

or

Spoiler

some mind-swapping villain,

or

Spoiler

Dr. Light masquerading as Ray,

or whatever; anything's possible.


Except that Amazo theory. That's just nonsensical garbage. :lol

 

[nomoment]

Externally to the story, we're told by Meltzer that this arc will take Batman down a notch and re-establish Elongated Man as a detective. That means, in my opinion, at least one more twist... Batman deducing most of it, but Ralph figuring out the larger context.

Come to think of it, Batman's been taken down a notch in a few of DC's big comics, now. First in Green Lantern: Rebirth, and now in IC #6.

Morrison ignored the new "formula" in JLA: Classified #1, though. But remember, he did say this in a recent interview:

“…it's pretty much set in some kind of current continuity but I’m afraid it's not the gloomy 'adult' world of Sue Dibny's shredded lycra pants so keep well away if it's attempted rape you crave. Cannibalism, yes, rape, no. My DCU is a day-glo, non-stop funhouse, where the world is threatened every five minutes and godlike beings clash in the skies like fireworks.” – Grant Morrison, interviewed about JLA: CLASSIFIED

Some changes in store for ol' Bats?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

atom has gone nuts before. right after he divorced jean loring. could he still be bitter about that? and let's not forget that he was turned into a teenager for a while (ugh).

batman cant solve a crime if he has missing memories, ralph has been sitting on the sidelines and frankly i'm shocked......
i think having one of DC's most well known heroes and an original menber of the JLA attack and kill fellow heroes wives and family would make the other DC heroes think twice about how they conduct bussines.
that's why chronos has kept saying "we'll still win", because this is going to shatter the heroes and the villains will have a field day.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Bleh... I need to take a break from all of this, it's affecting my productivity. With only one issue to go,

Spoiler

the Atom

has become the most likely and obvious (too obvious?) suspect. But maybe (just maybe) it's someone else, and maybe one of those farfetched theories being thrown about is the real deal. It could be

Spoiler

Jean Loring,

or

Spoiler

Calculator,

or

Spoiler

some mind-swapping villain,

or

Spoiler

Dr. Light masquerading as Ray,

or whatever; anything's possible.


Except that Amazo theory. That's just nonsensical garbage. :lol

HEY!! that amazo theory had merit!!! *ahem* yeah, well i still had it right when i said it was a hero or a former hero who was behind this.

 

[Escape Goat]

Spoiler

When JLA mindwiped Light Zatanna screwed up the spell and it swapped minds with Atom. She was unable to correct it so they mindwiped them and then implanted personalities that were characteristic of Atom and Light respectively. So now Atom is in Lights body and vice versa, each believing they are who they've always thought.

The Atom (who is now Light) begins to remember what really happened and begins to continue life as Atom and studies the JLA. He learns their secret IDs and begins to hurt them where it hurts the most.

I dont know if thats truth or if it was someones speculation. I'll try to find the original post that was made at Mark Millar's forum.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Spoiler

When JLA mindwiped Light Zatanna screwed up the spell and it swapped minds with Atom. She was unable to correct it so they mindwiped them and then implanted personalities that were characteristic of Atom and Light respectively. So now Atom is in Lights body and vice versa, each believing they are who they've always thought.

The Atom (who is now Light) begins to remember what really happened and begins to continue life as Atom and studies the JLA. He learns their secret IDs and begins to hurt them where it hurts the most.

I dont know if thats truth or if it was someones speculation. I'll try to find the original post that was made at Mark Millar's forum.

sounds interesting..... but how can zattana mess up that badly (she mixed up "switching personalities with switch light's personality?) is that why it's called "identity crisis?"

 

[Escape Goat]

Heres the original post

Spoiler

When Dr. Light was "cleaned up" by Zantanna, she worded her spell wrong, and his mind was swapped out with the Atom's. Say Zee said something like, "Make Dr. Light heroic." Well, the mind of a random hero just got misplaced in his body. That hero was unfortunately the Atom. After the Leaguers realized what a mistake had been made, they all tried to change them back but to no avail. Zantanna then rearranges their personalities, simply making their memoeries and personalities match up with the bodies they're in. Zantanna then mindwipes everyone in the room of the memory.

When Light's (Atom's) memory came back, he realized who he really was, and what he'd been made to do by his former friends and allies. After saying "You took my mind." he goes supernova and vanishes. Over the next few days he sits alone, brooding, trying to come to terms with his identity, trying to discover who he really is.

Meanwhile, the Atom (Light) has since discovered his true personality. Maybe years ago, and he's been keeping up the disguise to infiltrate the JLA, and collect all the info needed on them. After years of plotting he finally starts hitting people where it hurts.

Evidence:
-Only the Atom had Dr. Light's perspective of the Deathstroke fight. Light was having his arse kicked, not seeing himself getting his arse kicked from across the room.

-Light being enraged over his mind getting screwed with (after the Deathstroke fight) has totally different meaning when you realize that he was once a great hero who had been given the body and personality of a supervillain rapist. It only makes it worse to realize his friends did it to him.

-Near the end of issue six the Atom stands unmasked in front of a mirror, rubbing his chin and grinning, acting for all the world like he'd never seen his own face. Kind of a, "Hmm, I like it. Maybe I'll keep it." kind of face.

-The Atom's face in the end of issue six has Light's exact same wry, smirking, rapist smile. The issue ends with him reaching up and flicking off the lightswitch.

I predict issue seven will open up with a tremendous flash of light as Jean screams in the dark. Dr. Light materializes suddenly, screaming, "Get away from my wife!" and proceeds to beat Palmer across the floor, screaming like a maniac. The League bursts in on the scene, and the rest of the issue is dedicated to Batman or Dibny schooling everyone with their detective skills. The League is then forced to deal with the repercussions of their actions, knowing they got innocent civilians killed by playing God with people's minds.
*

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

hmmm.................... maybe, it has some sort of merit.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

here's an interesting picture.

 

[8bit]

Uh oh.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Anybody notice this? The focal point for the shattered glass seems to be...

And the Dr. Light theory seems a bit suspect IMO, especially after the solicit for Teen Titans #21:

TEEN TITANS #21
Written by Geoff Johns
Art by Mike McKone & Marlo Alquiza

Part 1 of the 3-part “Lights Out,” an IDENTITY CRISIS follow-up story! Doctor Light has forced the Titans’ hand and staged a publicized battle with the young heroes to take back his reputation. But as the Titans fall, help arrives in the form of two young heroes. Get ready for the debut of the new Hawk and Dove!

On sale Feb 16 :: 32 pages :: $2.50 US

I don't think Dr. Light's the killer, or that any mind-swapping is involved. But Dr. Light could be

Spoiler

masquerading as Ray to get into Jean's pants and bag another superhero's wife.

How do the guy's powers work, anyway? What's he capable of?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

that cover may not be intentional but sure points towards the little guy. and dr light was/is powerful to have given hal jordan fits when he was green lantern (being able to absorb energy and light, optics, energy blasts, etc)

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I just reread IC 1-6 (1-3 had been in storage for months) and I have a few comments:

1) We see Sue die on camera. I thought she was being beaten up, but in fact she's just collapsing on the table.

2) There's no way it's Ray or Jean. If it's Jean, she'd have been doing it while she was expecting Ray to show up, and that would have been awkward to explain. Also, that's not Jean tying her own wrists-- there are gloves, and she's barehanded. And I don't think it's Ray just based on the dialogue. It doesn't fit. Somebody *may* have hijacked his body, and that's why he was late to Jean's-- but wouldn't he be suspicious of a blackout?

3) That implies that it's somebody else who can shrink-- which could be anybody with access to Atom's technology. Buy Why? And why hide evidence of the killing? I am certain the footprints were not meant to be found, since they were almost overlooked at is was.

4) Last-- I think there's some significance to Dr Light's gun. It's suspected that that's why he invaded the satellite, and it's shown in dramatic fashion in #6.

I'm leaning to Boomerang being behind at least Sue after all, and the note-writer being on the side of the angels in bringing him down.

Evidence:

Boomerang has stolen other's tech before, particularly around the suicide squad.

Calculator makes a comment about somehtin bad Boomerang did to prove himself, which was someting both reprehensible and petty.

Boomerang had Heatwave's gun.

Boomerang may have wanted to hide the fact that he had shrinking gear at his disposal. Perhaps he's been using it to burgle other gear, like the Miraclo?

...

As I read this, it still doesn't make as much sense as Atom doing it-- if it weren't for the dialogue throwing it off.

 

[DarkNtity]

Misdirection, misdirection and more misdirection. I deduced the same motive as spike for why this was done when I applied bats "who benefits" to each character introduced thus far. The only clue about the killer that I'm putting faith in is what Hal said. He addressed the killer in a plural sense. Either Ray has more people in his head or there's someone else we're overlooking.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I don't worry about the plural thing. Arrow also uses it, before Hal lets anythign on.

It's just a gender-neutral pronoun. Hmmm.... perhaps it IS Jean? Or Zatanna?

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I'm in agreement on "they," using "he" or "she" would've just narrowed the list of suspects.

Jean is definitely still a suspect, though her possible motive remains sketchy... But how would Zee benefit from these crimes?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

SHe wouldn't-- and I don't think it's her-- but she has means.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Means, opportunity, motive... who's got all three?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

ATOM? adam cray?

 

[DaveH]

Means, opportunity, motive... who's got all three?

It doesn't have to be an individual. It could be a group who have all three when combined...

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

what i want to know is who burned sue dibny. ray may have takena day trip around her brain but somebody burned her..... was it really boomer?

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Why couldn't Ray have burned her? It's not like the killer used powers, just a flamethrower.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

sue was already dead when the flames hit her body...... that's why i would think it's two people.

 

[Outcast2004]

The plot just keep thickening.. I just keep gong back to one phrase...

"who benefits?"

I don't think it's Atom, I don't want to beleive it. If it is a mind swapped Dr. Light, it will seem just really anti-climactic.

 

[Soybean]

sue was already dead when the flames hit her body...... that's why i would think it's two people.

Yeah but Atom could just kill her, become big again, burn her and then leave! There's no reason Atom couldn't have done that himself.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Yeah but Atom could just kill her, become big again, burn her and then leave! There's no reason Atom couldn't have done that himself.

but where was the weapon, what weapon did they use exactly? it didnt look to me like heatwave's gun. it looked more like firefly's flame stick thing..... i'm just saying.
and if atom did burn her he screwed up cause he didnt hit her head and burn away his footprints.

 

[Soybean]

If it was him, he'd just use a flamethrower. I'm sure a man of his stature (haha! OK, sorry) could get his hands on one. And maybe he thought he could light her up and the evidence would be gone. Instead those sprinklers came on and took out the fire. And once the sprinklers came on he decided it was too late and just left.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

*bump*

Get in all the rampant speculation you can, folks; issue #7 is supposed to drop next week according to Diamond. And if anyone manages to snag a copy early and it leaks to the web, we may know who the real killer is by Monday.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

*bump*

Get in all the rampant speculation you can, folks; issue #7 is supposed to drop next week according to Diamond. And if anyone manages to snag a copy early and it leaks to the web, we may know who the real killer is by Monday.

i got the scoop on #6 but information on number seven has been next to impossible to find. i'm torn between being spoiled and being shocked myself.