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[U.2.K. Tha Greate$t]

Well alot of people are so caught up in the next generation systems , they cant see a GTA game or a cool looking game being done on the dreamcast. If the right people do the game, then it shouldnt be any problem. Even the NFL Series was tight, and S.C. looks just as good as a ps2 game, not to mention dead or alive.

I know its possible that a gta clone can be done on the dreamcast. The dreamcast is still powerful, its outdated in the sense of the dreamcast being dead, thats it. But outdated by graphics? I dont believe so, so i guess its good to dream, even tho some dreams come true.

 

[Jumpman Jr.]

Typing of the Dead 2

Chu Chu Rocket 2

Smash Pack Volume 2

New Samba

Sega Swirl 2, with true online (not of this email crap)

Better sequels to Crazy Taxi

Anything sequel with the words Hydro and Thunder in the title

 

[Kiriku]

I don't want old hardware to come back, such a pointless idea. There's better hardware Sega can develop games for, and already have for that matter. I can still mention a few games I'd like to see developed by Sega though (but NOT for Dreamcast):

Streets of Rage 4
Skies of Arcadia 2
A new version of ESWAT (they did make that game, right?)
Sega Rally 3

 

[dark10x]

Well alot of people are so caught up in the next generation systems , they cant see a GTA game or a cool looking game being done on the dreamcast. If the right people do the game, then it shouldnt be any problem. Even the NFL Series was tight, and S.C. looks just as good as a ps2 game, not to mention dead or alive.

I know its possible that a gta clone can be done on the dreamcast. The dreamcast is still powerful, its outdated in the sense of the dreamcast being dead, thats it. But outdated by graphics? I dont believe so, so i guess its good to dream, even tho some dreams come true.

The DC is slower in the areas that GTA really needs. The visuals displayed in those games speaks nothing of what is actually going on below the surface. GTA2 was on DC, though, and it had an awful framerate.

I don't understand your generic references, though. SC looks as good as a PS2 game? How can you just say "PS2 game" in general? There are many fighters on PS2 that are graphically superior, if you want to compare genres.

It's like you're living in 2000. Did we go back in time? This is kinda fun. Of course, back then, "I" was defending the Dreamcast.

Really, though, there just isn't any reason to continue working with the DC hardware. It IS dated. There are games in certain genres on PSP that look better than anything similar on DC. SOME DC games (the top titles) still hold up today, but all of them are poly starved and lack most of the special effects we've become used to. PS2 managed to overcome its texture and image quality limitations in most cases while the other systems have never had issues there. I don't understand your logic, as you seem convinced that the DC hardware is still viable from a technical standpoint. It's time for next-gen...

 

[U.2.K. Tha Greate$t]

But the whole point here, is what if it happen, you dont seem to be a hardcore sega fan , yet alone a dreamcast fan. You seem to be like other people, people like to forget about the past and look towards the future and thats cool , but see its millions and millions of people still out there that wish more games will come out and thats my aim, i aint even gonna talk about, what i wanna talk about hahaha.

I'm all for the new systems, but i still think the new systems are a bit too early, and thats why i have no plans to buy xbox 360 till like 4 years from now, or when the price is like 120 bucks. I'm still playing dreamcast, n64, psone, and xbox 1 and its fun, and if one day someone has enough power to release more dreamcast games, i will be the first person in line and i think alot of people will be happy.

Just my views, peace.

 

[goodcow]

The DC is slower in the areas that GTA really needs. The visuals displayed in those games speaks nothing of what is actually going on below the surface. GTA2 was on DC, though, and it had an awful framerate.

It was a shitty WinCE port.

 

[Azure Dream]

I do wish they had done a final box set of the easy to port games.

Slashout, Planet Harriers, Propeller Arena, etc all in one $100 box. I would have bought it.

Planet Harriers was too heavy-duty for the DC, it didn't use the normal Naomi board, but something significantly more powerful. It was one of the first titles Sega fans started hypothesizing about being ported to other platforms, even before the DC was dead. Ironic that we never got a home version of it at all...

Ah... we can only hope for an alternate reality, where Bernie hadn't slipped up and said "Saturn isn't our future," where Sega held the DC back just a little longer so it was a bit more powerful, and had a built-in DVD drive capable of playing movies...

Who knows, though, maybe the Rev will be like the DC2? (Er, hopefully not in the "Abandoned in 2-3 years" factor, but in the way unique games are developed and designed for it en masse.)

 

[ManDudeChild]

Crazy Taxi alone proved that they could have done a GTA style game.

I'm thinking ... not a chance in hell. Are you even factoring in the size, sandbox play and general scope of a "GTA style" game.

But the whole point here, is what if it happen, you dont seem to be a hardcore sega fan , yet alone a dreamcast fan. You seem to be like other people, people like to forget about the past and look towards the future and thats cool , but see its millions and millions of people still out there that wish more games will come out and thats my aim, i aint even gonna talk about, what i wanna talk about hahaha.

Thanks man. Reading your post was like jumping back into a time machine when I was 15 and using the same kind of logic.

 

[Flakster99]

A new entry in the Wonderboy series.

 

[Truelize]

SHENMUE 3

What he said.

 

[Prince of Space]

Jet Set Radio 3, you bitches!

 

[callous]

Scud Race
Phantasy Star V (Unline)
NiGHTS 2
Indy 500
Blue Stinger 2
Jet Set Radio 2
Guardian Heroes 2
Power Drift 2

 

[Davew49]

PS2 managed to overcome its texture and image quality limitations in most cases while the other systems have never had issues there. I don't understand your logic, as you seem convinced that the DC hardware is still viable from a technical standpoint. It's time for next-gen...

I know this post was all about what ifs and not a "hadware" debate, but I think you hit the crux on the head. PS2 was around long enough to over come certian issues that, IMO, the Dreamcast never had the longevity benefit of. It hit in what 1999 and was canned in 2001. Not much time for any great 3rd/4th generation software.

Which brings me back to this thread, "if" DC made a come back, would any devs that cared to put out games, be good enough to make the DC really sing like it could have? If games were $9 I just don't see much bet bad conversions and 2nd rate devs putting more of the shovel-ware that IMO hurt the DC back in the day. More games pushing the system like Shenume, DOA, Soul Calibur were needed, not the WinCE garbage and the retextured PS1 conversions.

All IMO of course.

Davew49

 

[GDGF]

A new House of the Dead with a Zombie Dreamcast as the end boss.



(ohh...theres a nice new user name...Zombie Dreamcast)

 

[Lazy8s]

jarrod:

Actually, bringing DC back as a budget machine might not be a bad idea given Sega Sammy's SOC Aurora architecture.

Achieving compatibility might be quite practical considering Aurora's newer generation graphics chip performs many of the same functions similarly and because the SH-4s are code compatible. When interpreted, the graphics calls could probably be made to run better on the MBX.

dark10x:

this just isn't true anymore. Back in 2000? Sure. Now? No way.

While being less powerful in many ways, games like Sonic Adventure 2, F355, Dead or Alive 2, and Virtua Tennis show that it's already still competitve at least.

The DC would have a much more difficult time with a GTA style game.

Nothing would have to scaled to Dreamcast more than usual. In Crazy Taxi 2, the DC streamed a city at twice the rate with none of the graphical glitches and maintained world conditions for a couple of blocks in a game that didn't even need that much. The DC has the necessary transfer speeds from its disc drive and enough memory for an appropriately scaled GTA-style game.

Also, DC is a 64-bit platform

The DC's floating-point bus is 128-bit.

Tain:

MGS2 just wouldn't have worked. Nor would GTA3.

Games scale well enough between consoles of differing strengths.

dark10x:

Those games all did things that the DC just could not.

That can be the case with any advantage between consoles. DC games could claim the same with a few of its system's advantages in image qualities, too.

MGS3, Burnout 3, ZOE2, God of War, etc. are just too far beyond DC...

The DS succeeds in the portable market against PSP, and the DC likewise would've been less expensive and longer established.

There are games in certain genres on PSP that look better than anything similar on DC.

F355's car models, color precision, texturing, and image quality make it easily comparable.

PS2 managed to overcome its texture and image quality limitations in most cases

It overcame them like any system can overcome any graphical disadvantage: intelligent visual design.

 

[dark10x]

DC games could claim the same with a few of its system's advantages in image qualities, too.

Only against PS2, though...

Gamecube and XBOX both feature more attractive image quality. DC has awful mipmapping artifacts due to its bilinear filtering, for one thing...

F355's car models, color precision, texturing, and image quality make it easily comparable.

Yeah, I was thinking of F355. That easily compares, though not necessarily from an art direction standpoint (which isn't what we were comparing anyways).

It overcame them like any system can overcome any graphical disadvantage: intelligent visual design.

Yeah, but do you really think the DC could have overcome its weaknesses? It really is lacking in its ability to throw around geometry. I think that would have really be obvious now. The best looking games on the system all worked around their limited geometry budgets, but I don't think it would have been able to stand out today.

 

[evilromero]

Billy Hatcher 2.

 

[FortNinety]

I recall when Majeco made some good money with the Genesis 3 that perhaps there might be very small chance that they might do the same with Dreamcast hardware. I would have to assume that the technology behind it is dirt cheap, and yet still very powerful. Hence why SNK bought into it I guess.

 

[dog$]

- Thunder Force 6
- Senko no Ronde
- A Capcom game that's actually worth buying

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

If ever a thread was Lazy-bait...

I want Powerstone 3, and it better play like Powerstone 1.

And re-issue the green goblins, those PCBs are gold.

 

[slidewinder]

F360 Challenge.

 

[Kumiko Nikaido]

Pretty much all the arcade Model 2/Model 3/NAOMI/NAOMI 2 games would be grand if the DC came back. And all the game that went MIA when DC went under.

I'll throw around a list too....

* Shenmue III
* Daytona USA 2: Battle on the Edge
* Scud Race
* Sega Touring Car Championship 2
* Sega Rally 3
* Outrun 3
* Propeller Arena: Aviation Battle Championship
* Virtual-On: 4orce
* Virtua Fighter 4: Final Tuned
* Virtua Fighter 5
* Fighting Vipers 3
* Fighters Megamix 2
* Last Bronx 2
* Rez 2
* Space Channel 5: Part 3
* Planet Harriers
* Spikeout: Digital Batte Online
* Spikeout: Final Edition
* Slashout
* Spikers Battle
* Shakka to Tambourine
* Virtua Cop 3
* Ghost Squad
* L.A. Machineguns: Rage of the Machines
* Blood Bullet: House of the Dead
* Gunvalkyrie 2
* Panzer Dragoon Saga 2
* Phantasy Star V
* Skies of Arcadia Legends 2

etc., etc. I could go on forever.... ^_^

 

[Blackace]

Bringing back the dreamcast to me, is a good idea. Its millions of fans still out there who wanna see more games.

did it even sell millions of units? I know you are a fan and all... but at least look at things in a semi-real light...

 

[goodcow]

I recall when Majeco made some good money with the Genesis 3 that perhaps there might be very small chance that they might do the same with Dreamcast hardware. I would have to assume that the technology behind it is dirt cheap, and yet still very powerful. Hence why SNK bought into it I guess.

There were also rumors years ago of a Majesco Saturn re-release.

 

[Dilbert]

I'd like to see lots and lots of PS2 ports!

 

[ParkPace]

Besides the obligatory "Skies of Arcadia 2", I'd like to throw in a sequel to Speed Devils. Even for its time the graphics weren't anything special, and the game's difficulty left a lot to be desired, but damnit if the tracks weren't fun as hell to play on. All in all, a nice arcade-style racing game that you could just pick up and play. Still one of my favorite driving games of all time.

Dreamcast would need a new freakin' controller too. Shit looked like a damn UFO.

 

[callous]

did it even sell millions of units? I know you are a fan and all... but at least look at things in a semi-real light...

It sold over 10 million.

 

[goodcow]

Dreamcast would need a new freakin' controller too. Shit looked like a damn UFO.

The Dreamcast pad is worlds better than the XBox pad.

But still, the Saturn 3D pad should've been stock. Best controller ever.

 

[Sho Nuff]

DC Propeller Arena had some of the most hideous voice acting EVER. The narrator said something like "You're flying high like iCOUrus! No wings!"

 

[_Angelus_]

Draconus Kult of the wrym 2(yes the game has really odd spelling.) By far ny favorite medieval hack and slash game in years,would kill for a sequel.
Sega Rally3
ShenMue3
Daytona Championship Remix
Red Dog2
Jet Set Radio 3
Virtua racing 2
Outrun3
Phantasy Star 5
PowerSlave 2
Soul Star2
Bug3!!!
F355 (2)
Evil Twin 2
Panzer Dragoon Saga 2
Shinobi 4
Steeets of Rage 4
Zaxxon2
SubRock2
Indy 500 (2)
Virtua Cop 4
Nights2
HOTD4
VectorMan3
GunStar Heroes2
Golden Axe4
Flink2

 

[Warm Machine]

The DC could certainly do a GTA style game and Crazy Taxi 1 and 2 are proof enough that it could have done it. CT1/2 both achieve 60fps at many points, feature all kinds of traffic patterns, enough pedestrians, an animation system, and comparible environment sizes. It actually featured more and differnet kinds of vehicles at any given point than GTA.

Visually Crazy Taxi is far nicer that GTA as the memory for textures and at was far larger and CT uses self shadowing and vertex specularity unlike GTA. GTA 3 even used transform animated characters and that is exactly what CT used. Remember that GTA 3 rarely hit 30FPS

The only thing it is seriously missing from CT in comparison is the ability to walk around on your own power and fire a weapon. Hardly something unattainable seeing as though that doesn't rely on much that isn't already taken care of in the code (such as collision).

 

[Mr Nash]

I'd love to see the Chakan sequel that never was come to light.

Check out early stuff on it here:

http://www.andnow.net/chakan/index.html

And here:

http://www.rakgraphics.com/rakgallery/chakrevwall.asp

 

[Lazy8s]

dark10x:

Only against PS2, though...

Actually, none of the consoles are capable of a few DC's image qualities like framebuffer independent color blending and depth sorting, and floating point precision in the Z buffer. DC's simultaneous interlaced and proscan signal output which makes proscan support in applications almost automatic is also not done by at least the PS2 and GC.

DC has awful mipmapping artifacts due to its bilinear filtering

Its mipmapping and bilinear filtering are of the same quality as Xbox's and GC's, and usage of mipmapping and bilinear filtering is still quite common in Xbox and GC games. Developers have improved their skill at implementing LOD and their skill in visual design since DC games stopped, though.

Yeah, I was thinking of F355. That easily compares

There aren't any PSP games that outperform every comparable DC game.

Yeah, but do you really think the DC could have overcome its weaknesses? It really is lacking in its ability to throw around geometry. I think that would have really be obvious now. The best looking games on the system all worked around their limited geometry budgets, but I don't think it would have been able to stand out today.

The heavier aliasing which breaks up the game worlds presented by PS2 stands out versus Xbox games like more angular models would on DC. In the end, it gets accepted.

Something to consider: Tomonobu Itagaki of Team Ninja claimed the same parallel for DC as he did for Xbox when describing what Ninja Gaiden was going to look like, back when it was in development for DC. As he said that the Xbox game would look like an action title with Dead or Alive 3 graphics, he was saying the DC version was going to look like an action game with Dead or Alive 2 graphics.

 

[teepo]

The DC could certainly do a GTA style game and Crazy Taxi 1 and 2 are proof enough that it could have done it. CT1/2 both achieve 60fps at many points, feature all kinds of traffic patterns, enough pedestrians, an animation system, and comparible environment sizes. It actually featured more and differnet kinds of vehicles at any given point than GTA.

Visually Crazy Taxi is far nicer that GTA as the memory for textures and at was far larger and CT uses self shadowing and vertex specularity unlike GTA. GTA 3 even used transform animated characters and that is exactly what CT used. Remember that GTA 3 rarely hit 30FPS

The only thing it is seriously missing from CT in comparison is the ability to walk around on your own power and fire a weapon. Hardly something unattainable seeing as though that doesn't rely on much that isn't already taken care of in the code (such as collision).

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Jet Set Radio3

 

[FortNinety]

There were also rumors years ago of a Majesco Saturn re-release.

That's crazy. The system architecture was such a mess. Over ten years later, is anyone even close to getting the system properly emulated?

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Cannon Spike 2, plz.

 

[Tain]

The DC could certainly do a GTA style game and Crazy Taxi 1 and 2 are proof enough that it could have done it. CT1/2 both achieve 60fps at many points, feature all kinds of traffic patterns, enough pedestrians, an animation system, and comparible environment sizes. It actually featured more and differnet kinds of vehicles at any given point than GTA.

None of the vehicles in Crazy Taxi had as accurate physics models, collision detail, or interiors as GTA. Hell, some of the pedestrian vehicles in Crazy Taxi don't even have modeled undersides, if I remember correctly.

And as those shots demonstrate, the city wasn't as densly populated, either.

Visually Crazy Taxi is far nicer that GTA as the memory for textures and at was far larger and CT uses self shadowing and vertex specularity unlike GTA. GTA 3 even used transform animated characters and that is exactly what CT used. Remember that GTA 3 rarely hit 30FPS

I'll give you this, but it's also largely due to Crazy Taxi's visual design.

I'm not arguing that a GTA-style game wouldn't work on the DC, or that something slightly comparable to MGS2 wouldn't happen. I'm arguing that if Konami and Rockstar gave a full-fledged attempt to port those games, they would still take a significant hit, visually.

 

[DrLazy]

Monkey Ball 3: Online

More crazy taxi, JSR and Seaman!

 

[Docpan]

word- shenmue 3. thats it.

 

[John Harker]

More Phantasy Star Online games so I can hack a Juno/Net Zero account again and play another 120 hours for freeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Lazy8s]

Tain:

None of the vehicles in Crazy Taxi had as accurate physics models

Crazy Taxi modeled the physics and interactions of many simultaneous objects naturally as demonstrated by the stacks of crates which would bounce around and deflect correctly when collided.

And as those shots demonstrate, the city wasn't as densly populated, either.

Those shots aren't representative of the game with its traffic option set to maximum. The streets become clogged with cars, and the game still moves at over twice the average framerate of GTA3.

I'm arguing that if Konami and Rockstar gave a full-fledged attempt to port those games, they would still take a significant hit, visually.

That's no different than any console trying to run a game that was ported from a system with some comparative advantages.

 

[Tain]

Crazy Taxi modeled the physics and interactions of many simultaneous objects naturally as demonstrated by the stacks of crates which would bounce around and deflect correctly when collided.

Which is true, but not to the same degree as GTA3 did. From a purely CPU standpoint, none of the collisions in CT were much more than between extremely simple vehicle meshes or very simple scenery (primitive cubes). GTA3 has pretty much every object and piece of scenery not only get knocked around, but many break and take damage. There's no question that CT can handle these types of things, but GTA3 simply does more work in the end.

Those shots aren't representative of the game with its traffic option set to maximum. The streets become clogged with cars, and the game still moves at over twice the average framerate of GTA3.

I was talking about pedestrians, mostly.

It's all muddled anyway, though, when you consider how much of a completely unoptimized mess GTA3's engine (renderware) supposedly is. I always figured that the PS2 could have a game with GTA's density and scale and look quite a bit better.

That's no different than any console trying to run a game that was ported from a system with some comparative advantages.

Alright, then, I'll rephrase:

If, say, Team Ninja were to port Ninja Gaiden to both the Dreamcast and the PS2, I think it would be largely accepted that the PS2 version looks better. Even with the DC's advantages, I think it would look bad enough to be considered 'dated'.

Of course, you'll then have people saying they prefer a lower framerate to lower-res textures or whatever.

 

[llTll]

i would support the DC till this moment if it still had games coming out

anyway i would look for shenmu3, panzer dragon saga 2, powerstone 3 from capcom

 

[Lazy8s]

Tain:

GTA3 has pretty much every object and piece of scenery not only get knocked around, but many break and take damage.

The destructible elements weren't being dictated by any kind of complex physics model. That kind of stuff is largely canned.

GTA3 simply does more work in the end.

That's mostly the result of different gameplay focuses in this case.

Even with the DC's advantages, I think it would look bad enough to be considered 'dated'.

An action game with Dead or Alive 2 visuals, in accordance with the official claim, would stand out above most comparable titles even today. Compared to the benchsetting Xbox version, it would look dated, but the PS2 version would, too, in that comparison. I don't see the DC's graphics disadvantages making it inviable in the marketplace.

Of course, you'll then have people saying they prefer a lower framerate to lower-res textures or whatever.

Framerate is a design decision, and the official line on DC Ninja Gaiden already potentially implied 60 fps.

 

[Jewbacca]

Porn on my 50 inch tv without the use of my computer or WebTV! I loved Seganet. (and netzero)

 

[RiZ III]

Shenmue 3
Skies 2
Power Stone 3


Id rather see Panzer Dragoon Saga 2 on a more powerful console.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

You know, if most of the games mentioned in this thread were for real, I'd be much more excited about Dreamcast than any other console out there. The Power Stone games were two of my favourite games ever, and no other similar games have come close to Crazy Taxi, either in terms of gameplay or visuals.

 

[Kiriku]

Those Crazy Taxi textures are a lot blurrier than I remember...

 

[Apenheul]

Add another Skies of Arcadia 2 to the list for me. And port it to GameCube again with additional content plus the "Legends" in the title.