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IGN: Nintendo vs. Modernism
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
in the days of SNES, N64, and especially GC, i usually had a feeling of "aww man too bad that's only on Nintendo consoles..." quite often. never enough to push me over to being a 2 console person though.
i don't get that sort of feeling anymore. i got a Wii to get my gf to game with me, and i got a WiiU for my fiance because she really wanted one and we decided to trade in our Wii's for it. since Wii i've just been getting it for other reasons, but not because i personally was compelled by the type of software coming out.
i feel like Nintendo is just trying to polish the same old stuff over and over as hard as they can but it's not enough to keep up with companies that aren't afraid to expand, try new things, go after niche audiences, and understand that yes, gaming IS for everyone, but it's okay to appeal to all gamers through multiple titles and types of games. the bulk of their offerings don't need to each be a one size fits all kind of deal.
i don't get that sort of feeling anymore. i got a Wii to get my gf to game with me, and i got a WiiU for my fiance because she really wanted one and we decided to trade in our Wii's for it. since Wii i've just been getting it for other reasons, but not because i personally was compelled by the type of software coming out.
i feel like Nintendo is just trying to polish the same old stuff over and over as hard as they can but it's not enough to keep up with companies that aren't afraid to expand, try new things, go after niche audiences, and understand that yes, gaming IS for everyone, but it's okay to appeal to all gamers through multiple titles and types of games. the bulk of their offerings don't need to each be a one size fits all kind of deal.
TheRedSnifit
Member
And the control scheme virtually identical to the one you say it should of have didn't work?
The way I see it Nintendo continues to make the kinds of games they want to make that also continue to be popular. With modern gaming you've got a lot of homogenization of games into fewer genres. God of War made brawlers popular, Uncharted made cinematic action adventures and third person shooters popular, Call of Duty and other FPSes are popular. You got a lot of me too games. You have old games that used to fill niches chasing the dollars for these other genres and reducing diversity. The modern game is more concerned with visuals than good gameplay. You have some games that do both great visuals and great new gameplay, but for the most part the industry is becoming more homogenous than branching out and a lot of the big new ideas that gamers applaud for being different move gaming further away from being games and more towards interactive experiences where challenge and gameplay are no longer important.
You could see it as Nintendo returning to the well, but that's only at a superficial level. You can scoff at the fact that NSMBU once again uses grasslands, desert, water, ice, mountain, cloud, and lava as the worlds the levels take place in, but then you miss the new ways it uses those tropes, the improved level design, the unique identities each level has. Meanwhile Puppeteer gets threads saying how it's the greatest platformer ever and shames NSMBU just because it has an interesting new visual style. How does it play? When did gameplay become so unimportant to gamers?
And then that's still ignoring the times that Nintendo HAS branched out with new things. People still refuse to acknowledge that Xenoblade is first party. Other M's failure to excite fans doesn't make it not very different from what Nintendo has done in the past. They made Metroid into an FPS and it kicked ass. They've been funding Platinum Games franchises. It's also ignoring the risky changes they've made in games like Zelda with the DS games and Skyward Sword.
I understand that, but my point pertains entirely to the apparent perception that Wii U has some focus on rehashes to begin with when so many people out there obviously asked for the select few games that can even be called a "rehash". I'm sorry, but I really don't see how one or two sequel-like games with similar mechanics will warrant that conclusion. A full year hasn't even passed since the Wii U's release yet, and in spite of that fact there are a good few upcoming exclusive titles garnering sufficient interest (some of them not JUST an expansion of previous ideas).
I didn't think the scope of this discussion was limited to games developed specifically by Nintendo, but rather to Nintendo exclusives. My assessment of the Zelda title was based on Aonuma discussing the development process.
LBTRecords
Banned
Personally, I like that there is a family friendly option in video games because quite frankly, if all there were was Xbox, Playstations and Call of Dutys, my kids wouldn't even see a console in the house. Luckily there's the Wii U and the 3ds for those who don't want to corrupt their children with violence and rampant swearing.
If we are using musical metaphors, I feel like Nintendo's approach is much more aptly compared to romanticism: rejecting techno-centric culture, focusing on more subjective aspects of the play experience like "fun", and of course embracing the values of the past.
Hard to blame them given the way Nintendo has treated the game in the West.
Hard to blame them given the way Nintendo has treated the game in the West.
Bloated cinematic epic or not, I just want real human language voices, a non save the princes plot, and a non Ganon main villain in Zelda.
Also I think Retro had the right direction going with the cinematic feel of Metroid Prime series. It had VO, it had cut scenes, it did try to mix things up. It used these thing to compliment what makes Metroid great.
What Nintendo did with Other M however was essentially go full R-tard. There's a way to do it right and there's a way that completely misses the mark. Nintendo could learn from this, but knowing them they'll just look at Other M and say "THAT'S NOT WHAT PLAYERS WANT. WE KNEW IT." and go back to Mario formula.
Also I think Retro had the right direction going with the cinematic feel of Metroid Prime series. It had VO, it had cut scenes, it did try to mix things up. It used these thing to compliment what makes Metroid great.
What Nintendo did with Other M however was essentially go full R-tard. There's a way to do it right and there's a way that completely misses the mark. Nintendo could learn from this, but knowing them they'll just look at Other M and say "THAT'S NOT WHAT PLAYERS WANT. WE KNEW IT." and go back to Mario formula.
1. Fire Emblem: Awakening
2. Kid Icarus: Uprising/Super Mario 3D World (from the looks of it)
3. Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Link's Awakening, Four Swords, and Majora's Mask.
1. I was talking about Zelda
2. I was talking about Zelda
3. None of these games have real VO and they have nothing to do with Nintendo's current rut of "save the princess and/or defeat Ganon" since Wind Waker. And even if we do take those into account, those are a handful of examples in a series of... how many games now?
LordMuffin
Member
Threads like these make me glad that Nintendo doesn't give a damn about what "gamers" want.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Nintendo SPD handled the cinematic direction. It's still a lame story basically because Kensuke Tanabe is stuck with the shadow samus theme in his head. Other M had Sakamoto pen something for D-Rockets, who also made those illegible DOA and NG cinematics.
Japanese games with long cinematics have a long history of harsh criticism when landing in the west. Scripts in Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII, which come from international production units with more experience than NIntendo at this point, produced mumbo jumbos of a higher exponency. It's really about Nintendo stepping up their production. They have long trailed behind.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
It's been said before and and it's being said again. Nintendo is gonna do what Nintendo wants to do. They have their vision. And good on them for that. Look at the vision MS had with the XBO and now look at it. 100 reactionary. Nintendo tries to innovate in different ways. Tries to add different spins on known fanchises.
Good or bad, you can always rely on Nintendo to put out quality hardware and some good games. Expecting anything more than that, then that's on you to be disappointed. My family and I are very happy with our Nintendo platforms and games. And I'm happy for my 360 and future PS4.
Good or bad, you can always rely on Nintendo to put out quality hardware and some good games. Expecting anything more than that, then that's on you to be disappointed. My family and I are very happy with our Nintendo platforms and games. And I'm happy for my 360 and future PS4.
The comparison might be off, but it will get a few people to occupy themselves a bit with that piece of musical history and classical music in general. We have people here calling his ballet a "song".
What I'm looking at is not so much the quality of narrative they convey, so much as how they function. Much more narrative is actually exposed through exploration in the game rather than leaving it up entirely to cinematic. Cinematics in this way didn't become the crutch for the prime series. Even with the rather simplistic theme, I much prefer the tighter focus it provides over the contrived abomination of Other M. My mistake in solely crediting Retro though.
ChrisInCali
Member
Pretty bloated article to convey a simple point. A point I disagree with, Nintendo just seems lazy to me.
I was going to reply to Trent, but decided against it. You summed up my thoughts nicely. Further, exactly what 4 games are they making over and over again.
Was Mario 64 the same as the games that came before it? Was Sunshine the same as 64? Was Galaxy just Sunshine with a new coat of paint? Yes, they are all Mario games, but the mechanics for each game are different. The NSMB games are meant to be nostalgiac. That is their entire reason for being and if those were the only games Nintendo made Trent's argument would be valid. But NSMB is hardly the only game Nintendo makes. People forget about their other franchises because Mario, Zelda and Metroid cast such a long shadow.
copelandmaster
Member
Can't wait for the followup:
Nintendo vs. Postmodernism
Nintendo vs. Postmodernism
SporeCrawler
Member
Why are we comparing a composer to video game publisher?
timetokill
Banned
Nintendo... so backwards they're still trying to figure out how to release a handheld before the 3DS comes out
"Real human language voices:" Play the Wand of Gamelon
"Non save the princes plot:" IIRC Link has never saved princes in a game so I don't know why you'd be worried, it might actually be a nice change of pace actually
"Non Ganon main villain:" There are several Zelda games without Ganon as a main villain:
Skyward Sword, Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening, Minish Cap
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
Agreed.
This is what you want, but will it make for an objectively better game? Not certainly.
It will make for a game with more appeal and it could be done well. That's it.
Never Saved a princess? Wat. And i've already spoken about these handful of examples. They neither make the current situation better, nor are they the rule.
He was pointing out your typo.
Arkage
Banned
Ah, if only all of us who bought a $350 WiiU could be happy due to it's ability to legally play an 18 year old overrated SNES game on the pad controller.
IchigoSharingan
Member
Ugh. As if we NEED more 'hollywood' esque games.
Hey Nintendo, drop your unique approach to gaming and go mainstream.
If only there was some way they could do both. But apparently that is UNPOSSIBLE.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
This is where your argument fails, and I have a real problem with it. This is an insinuation of a complete and entire genre as being unfit for X or Y amount of money, dev input or output in any span of time. It's a subtle admission by the stater that they feel it to be an inferior genre, but that's purely personal opinion. Your framing also makes it sound like you don't think 2D platformers offer any room for 'genuinely creative' experiences, which is bunk. Listing the usual suspects doesn't do much. Maybe one could even argue the really creative 2D platformers this gen were not on Nintendo consoles (or exclusively at least), and there's evidence to support that.
There is no shelf life on the 2D platformer genre both in terms of how much is too much, or how far it can be taken creatively. I could come back and say something akin to "How many FPS do you really need in a single year?" and end up just as wrong; that's despite everyone knowing the genre's been pimped to hell this gen, but the genre itself doesn't have a shelf life. There aren't necessarily "limits" built into it.
If you feel there are too many 2d platformers coming out, blame the marketing side and overt saturation of the genre with too many quasi-similar experiences in too close a time frame, it would make for a more plausible argument.
In the next Mario, the princess is actually a playable character, so I dont think you save her in that one.
DrROBschiz
Member
I would personally love Nintendo to step out of the Vacuum they apparenly shove their engineers and designers into
Not that it matters when they continue to deliver great software
Still it would be nice to have
- Functional and robust OS's
- Account systems
- Online Play and Party Chat background features
- Curated and Updated apps
I dunno. I feel like they could really kill it in the Budget space much like Ouya is failing to do.
Sony is already getting a jump on them with VitaTV.
WiiU missed some great opportunities to engage its users in the downtime between Nintendo software.
2DS is a pretty smart play and really surprised me. Now they just need a 3DS Pro with internal upgrades, upscaling and tecture filtering to a higher res screen and dual sticks
Not that it matters when they continue to deliver great software
Still it would be nice to have
- Functional and robust OS's
- Account systems
- Online Play and Party Chat background features
- Curated and Updated apps
I dunno. I feel like they could really kill it in the Budget space much like Ouya is failing to do.
Sony is already getting a jump on them with VitaTV.
WiiU missed some great opportunities to engage its users in the downtime between Nintendo software.
2DS is a pretty smart play and really surprised me. Now they just need a 3DS Pro with internal upgrades, upscaling and tecture filtering to a higher res screen and dual sticks
So surely, you'll be reaching out to Microsoft and Sony as well to make sure they have equal amounts of diversity in their respective libraries too? Right?
MaximoffZero
Banned
This. Nintendo is obviously favors affordability and gameplay over graphics. If they made a $100 home game console, it would fly off the shelves.
What are you talking about?
The game got even a bundle and plenty of swag to go with it!
Talking about NoA?
#whywouldyoulivethere
It is IGN ... they make "what zelda could learn from skyrim" and then forget most things both zelda and skyrim has =P
I'd not pin Jpn development that way, the same company that gave us FFXIII gave us FFXII too after all.
And MGS I don't think I need to explain why it was always going to crazy town anyway.
I'm not saying Nintendo can do from scratch better than people who were at it for the last 10 years but Other M and FFXIII are not reasons why they should be stuck to suckville.
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
RobFox64tm
Member
Nintendo is Nintendo and they will do what they do. Some people may not like it, but that's only a sign that they are doing things right, in my opinion. Whether the majority of GAF cares to admit it or not, they know there is no equivilant to Nintendo's brand of quality anywhere else in the industry. Nintendo may rely heavilly on the past, but it's a past that's exclusive to them and thier products.
I think it's also easy to overlook the fact that the amount of gamers out there is constantly increasing, so there will always be people out there who have never experienced a Mario or Zelda game before.
I think it's also easy to overlook the fact that the amount of gamers out there is constantly increasing, so there will always be people out there who have never experienced a Mario or Zelda game before.
You know, I've gotten really damn tired of the hyperbolic argument that Nintendo is the only developer making games that are safe to play in front of kids. My five year old niece had an amazing time playing Journey, Flower, Ratchet & Clank, and LittleBigPlanet when she came over during summer break. I think she'd really enjoy Knack if he had the chance to play it.
I swear, some people describe Nintendo's place in the industry as if they're the only sane people in a room full of psychotic, blood-thirsty maniacs.
As someone who's really sick and tired of Nintendo's current direction and isn't even slightly interested in any of their new games apart from X, DKCTF, and Pokemon...
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Kid Icarus Uprising is my single favorite Nintendo game, and I absolutely adore it.
RobFox64tm
Member
This probably stems from all the drones out there calling for Nintendo to make more "mature" games, just like everyone else.
As for the types of games others make, there's always exceptions, no one is saying otherwise, but Nintendo is synonymous with family friendly entertainment. Others may have those types of games within their libraries, but they aren't defined by them exclusively like Nintendo is. Also none of the games you mentioned have nearly as wide of an appeal as a Mario or Pokemon game does, even if your anicdotal evidence suggests they do.
its funny, the points here are being either "nintendo should go mainstream" or "Nintendo should stick with their
uniiqueness.
Why not both? Why didn't nintendo hired talent to increase relationship with thirds, created or both devs to do different types of games with the gamepad in mind, freeing their in house devs for the big franchises, etc etc etc?
Why is it that they have to choose one model? TO me, that is precisely their biggest mistake.
perceived
Why not both? Why didn't nintendo hired talent to increase relationship with thirds, created or both devs to do different types of games with the gamepad in mind, freeing their in house devs for the big franchises, etc etc etc?
Why is it that they have to choose one model? TO me, that is precisely their biggest mistake.
But... they do. Both have far more third party support than Nintendo, alongside their first party outputs.
Looking at Sony in particular -
LittleBigPlanet, Puppeteer - Platformer
Uncharted/The Last of Us - Cinematic action/adventure TPS (and still very different design-wise, mind you)
God of War - Brawler
Playstation All Stars - Party Fighting
Gran Turismo - Racing Sim
Drive Club, Motorstorm - Arcade Racer
Modnation, LBP Karting - Kart Racer
InFamous - Open World Superhero Action
Soul Sacrifice, God Eater - Arena Fighting? Whatever Monster Hunter is
Killzone - FPS
Journey, Flower - Artistic
I could go on.
jts
...hate me...
Different definitions of huge and mainstream. I never even saw one of those (mind you, I'm from europe).
The hugely successful Palm Pilot says "Hi!"
Er, they stopped being dungeon style arena item hunts with locked forward views a long, long, long time ago.
Enordash
Member
It's great that Nintendo is continuing to make games that people know and love, but there is a point where it would be nice for them to listen to a few things. If the next generation of the other brands lacked some of the key features the WiiU lacks (like the online structure, cross game chat, etc), people would go berserk.
I would love to see my WiiU get more use. It almost seems like they should have just stuck with the Wii and put the cash into more games instead of a new platform launch. Have they really justified the need for the tablet controller. I'm almost 100% sure I'll just want a pro controller for Smash when it comes out.
Just because everyone else is doing something doesn't make it wrong. Nintendo could definitely keep the gaming experience it currently has while making the overall user experience a lot better.