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[MrPanic]

I think another flaw in thinking is assuming it's a team centric game. Sure, it's 4v4, but the game goes out of its way to mix up the team after each match, even making sure you're not in the same team as your friends. That alone tells me it's not supposed to be a team centric game at all, just a competitive game where it's easy to set goals for your own. The 4v4 aspect is there because it matches the best with the ink mechanic so you can more easily set your own goals depending on the situation, not to accommodate team play. Maybe ninty isn't making just another twelve in a dozen shooter, maybe even a shooter where voice chat is something that goes against what the game is trying to accomplish? Then again, sunglasses.

 

[block tower]

As obvious as it was that this thread would be this long I'm very curious how many people having so much angst over the exclusion of voice chat praised Journey.

I wonder if any of them following or participating in this discussion have forgotten about how much they acknowledged voice chat wasn't everything.

Voice chat is a very useful feature by allowing people to refine their team work. When you start any game it's not something you need. You can enjoy a game simply on the merits of how your personal experience without having to worry about what other people are doing.

False analogy. journey was a limited co-op single player game. splatoon is a team based competitive multiplayer online shooter. Apples and oranges .

 

[Overside]

This "arbitrary feature" is a huge gameplay element that will without a doubt affect how it is played. Yeah ppl BS On voice comms but, ppl BS at work too, however it still serves a purpose and that purpose is that voice communication in this game would aid strategy and teamwork.

And here we are again, people who keep saying I know their is no tactical value in this game, I just like bsing with freinds!' this is why it keeps being brought up.

Splattoon already provides all the information you could possibly say, faster, and far more accurate, than you could ever verbally express, and it constantly updates in real time.

 

[woodland]

Are you sure you mean 'muteless' wouldnt that be a fictional version of the game with voice chat?

And ts not really Nintendos opinion on the subject, it would be the skill of the teams playing, and how well they understand the game, as opposed to treating it like a traditional shooter.

For example, voice chat could be detrimental for a team, as ive gotten the impression many here are intent on going around as a team and killing the enemy instead of winning the game, if one of you were under attack you would probably cry out for help, give a trp, and everyone would waste their time converging on your location like you want, leaving the rest of the map to get covered in opposing colors with impunity.

Voice chat would offer no advantadge whatsoever over a team that would look at the gamepad, and make sure they were covering the map in ink instead of converging on, and fighting other players. Concentrating your whole team in being a moving wall killing everything that comes into contact with you with concentrated fire, is really good for shooters where you are supposed to kill the other guy, but all that means here is youve got one roving point on the map on lock down while the other team does whatever the hell they want and paints the other 75% of the map.

The victory would go to the people who were better at the game, and a lot of it could be down to a single individual, in the last 30 seconds. Voice chat really wouldnt change much of that.

The scenario implies equally skilled teams, one with voice-chat and one without. I believe muteless was a typo. If not, then it would be 2 equally skilled teams with different versions of voice chat. How are you not getting this?

Any team that has voice chat will destroy a team without it.

And here we are again, people who keep saying no tactical value in this game,I just like bsing with freinds!' this is why it keep sbeing brought up.

Splattoon already provides all the information you could possibly say, faster, and far more accurate, than you could ever verbally express, and it constantly updates in real time.

Nope. Having to look down at my lap is not faster than saying "Blue 3" or "2 at ramp two". The minimap that provides said information is in my lap, as opposed to the smart design decision of having it at 50% opacity in a corner of the screen. Many of the times Splatoon is "Different" is detrimental to the gamer playing it.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Lots of people are ignoring the Wii U there's a reason it's selling less than both the PS4 and XBX1. This is one of them.

Yup. And when Nintendo's home console business crumbles because they can't bring their hardware and OS features toe to toe with the competition, the subset of Nintendo enthusiasts that defend every poor decision they make will blame consumers for not bowing down to the companies unabashed mediocrity.

 

[MouldyK]

I think another flaw in thinking is assuming it's a team centric game. Sure, it's 4v4, but the game goes out of its way to mix up the team after each match, even making sure you're not in the same team as your friends. That alone tells me it's not supposed to be a team centric game at all, just a competitive game where it's easy to set goals for your own. The 4v4 aspect is there because it matches the best with the ink mechanic so you can more easily set your own goals depending on the situation, not to accommodate team play. Maybe ninty isn't making just another twelve in a dozen shooter, maybe even a shooter where voice chat is something that goes against what the game is trying to accomplish? Then again, sunglasses.

Halo also mixes the teams up each game. And if this is MCC, you might even be alone from your friends...in a 3vs5 match!

 

[sora87]

It's no big deal to me, don't wanna hear random's annoying voices anyway

 

[Vena]

Yup. And when Nintendo's home console business crumbles because they can't bring their hardware and OS features toe to toe with the competition, the subset of Nintendo enthusiasts that defend every poor decision they make will blame consumers for not bowing down to the companies unabashed mediocrity.

Now you're just going into the same absurdities as the other side of the isle.

 

[block tower]

Yup. And when Nintendo's home console business crumbles because they can't bring their hardware and OS features toe to toe with the competition, the subset of Nintendo enthusiasts that defend every poor decision they make will blame consumers for not bowing down to the companies unabashed mediocrity.

Yea that's basically what will happen if the next console isn't a huge improvement.

 

[TransTrender]

I didn't read through the entire thread bit can someone please shoot down my argument if it hasn't been already:


They didn't include voice chat because Nintendo can't control what people will say and imagine if little Timmy was playing the game with someone spewing racial and homophobic slurs sprinkled with nonsensical cursing. Kinda kills Nintendo's clean and wholesome gaming image that they desperately try to keep.


Fake edit:
Do people not use Ventrillo or Mumble with press to talk or do they opt for the aurial sodomy of open mic Skype?

 

[Louis Cyphre]

If Nintendo's target audience is to cater to those who defend such defenceless decisions like this then the Wii-U sales, or lack-there-of, are well justified.

 

[Dion Blaster]

As obvious as it was that this thread would be this long I'm very curious how many people having so much angst over the exclusion of voice chat praised Journey.

I wonder if any of them following or participating in this discussion have forgotten about how much they acknowledged voice chat wasn't everything.

Voice chat is a very useful feature by allowing people to refine their team work. When you start any game it's not something you need. You can enjoy a game simply on the merits of how your personal experience without having to worry about what other people are doing.

Wasn't the whole point of Journey to hide that you were playing with another human?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Now you're just going into the same absurdities as the other side of the isle.

It's really not that far fetched. If Nintendo doesn't update their business model to keep up eventually a lot of people are going to lose interest. It might not be this generation, or next, or even 10 years from now. But if Nintendo sticks with their mentalities and keep putting out hardware that is functionally behind the times, eventually their user base is going to dry up except for hardcore Nintendo fans. I mean as of right now, the Wii U doesn't even have features that the 360 has, and that's a console that came out seven years before the Wii U.

They keep marketing their console like it's the console for children, while completely ignoring the fact that kids are buying their competition over their product.

 

[Corpekata]

As obvious as it was that this thread would be this long I'm very curious how many people having so much angst over the exclusion of voice chat praised Journey.

I wonder if any of them following or participating in this discussion have forgotten about how much they acknowledged voice chat wasn't everything.

Voice chat is a very useful feature by allowing people to refine their team work. When you start any game it's not something you need. You can enjoy a game simply on the merits of how your personal experience without having to worry about what other people are doing.

This point is total nonsense. Not only are you relying on a terrible strawman, you're comparing it to a game that makes little sense to compare it to.

 

[Raide]

I didn't read through the entire thread bit can someone please shoot down my argument if it hasn't been already:


They didn't include voice chat because Nintendo can't control what people will say and imagine if little Timmy was playing the game with someone spewing racial and homophobic slurs sprinkled with nonsensical cursing. Kinda kills Nintendo's clean and wholesome gaming image that they desperately try to keep.

Their next console should have no internet of couch co-op options then. Gotta Protect Em All!

 

[Reebot]

Then again, sunglasses.

I would love if "sunglasses" became a rallying cry for people who can't piece together a coherent analogy.

Or even better, those that thought the deluge of utter nonsense posted previously was good or convincing.

It would really make it easy to see who I can safely write off.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Their next console should have no internet of couch co-op options then. Gotta Protect Em All!

Think of the children (TM)

 

[Amir0x]

Are you sure you mean 'muteless' wouldnt that be a fictional version of the game with voice chat?

And ts not really Nintendos opinion on the subject, it would be the skill of the teams playing, and how well they understand the game, as opposed to treating it like a traditional shooter.

For example, voice chat could be detrimental for a team, as ive gotten the impression many here are intent on going around as a team and killing the enemy instead of winning the game, if one of you were under attack you would probably cry out for help, give a trp, and everyone would waste their time converging on your location like you want, leaving the rest of the map to get covered in opposing colors with impunity.

Voice chat would offer no advantadge whatsoever over a team that would look at the gamepad, and make sure they were covering the map in ink instead of converging on, and fighting other players. Concentrating your whole team in being a moving wall killing everything that comes into contact with you with concentrated fire, is really good for shooters where you are supposed to kill the other guy, but all that means here is youve got one roving point on the map on lock down while the other team does whatever the hell they want and paints the other 75% of the map.

The victory would go to the people who were better at the game, and a lot of it could be down to a single individual, in the last 30 seconds. Voice chat really wouldnt change much of that.

There has never been a team based multiplayer game where voiced players didn't have a massive advantage. Take two teams of equal skill and give one voice and the other not, the one with voice is going to win the vast majority of the time.

Splatoon is not going to be the first team based multiplayer game in history where this is not true. Not including the option has nothing to do with Nintendo determining it wouldn't change things, it has to do with them wanting to nanny for shitty parents. That's the basic problem with your argument... you so badly wish Splatoon was SO RADICALLY DIFFERENT from every other team based game that you're just pretty much just arguing nonsense. All because you can't even agree that including the option for players is better than not. This way those who like it can use it, and those who don't can avoid it. Everyone wins.

And yes, muteless was a typo. Meant mute.

 

[MrPanic]

Halo also mixes the teams up each game. And if this is MCC, you might even be alone from your friends...in a 3vs5 match!

Not relevant, in Halo's case it's just poor matchmaking, not a intended design choice.

 

[Raide]

Think of the children (TM)

Nintendo, watching your children, so you don't have to! /s

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Now you're just going into the same absurdities as the other side of the isle.

I'm not, though. Nintendo's home console business is in dire straights. Their marketshare has been declining every generation since the NES and it was only when they caught lightning in a bottle with the the Wii/DS combo in courting the mainstream market that the trend was offset (temporarily).

Yet here we are with the Wii U, being propped up by a few kids and Nintendo fans all the while lacking a mountain of basic features that the 360 made standard a decade ago. The social aspect of PS4 and Xbox One shouldn't be ignored, they're huge for consumers.

I worked at Microsoft as community manager for Xbox Upload up until January this year, and the whole time I was there, I really saw how much connectivity and sociability strengthened the community and consumer base. Nintendo's unwillingness to buck up their ideas is going to mean that their systems will only ever appeal to their shrinking hardcore niche and the children who are moving away to play Minecraft on their PC's or touch games on their iPads.

 

[MouldyK]

Yup. And when Nintendo's home console business crumbles because they can't bring their hardware and OS features toe to toe with the competition, the subset of Nintendo enthusiasts that defend every poor decision they make will blame consumers for not bowing down to the companies unabashed mediocrity.

I believe if Nintendo have their Unified Account System up by then, they might also allow other things like normal friends list in their games so you can add people aswell as maybe better voice chat.


The problem is, will they charge for it? Maybe the exclusion of Voice Chat is the price we don't pay for free multiplayer.


Questions to peeps though: If Nintendo "got with the times", would you be fine with them charging for multiplayer?

 

[Alienous]

If this is the demographic of Nintendos Wii U and future consoles, then the company should not even bother. Targeting children and basing gaming features around kid friendly philosophy basically guarantees most of the adult gaming population of the core gaming market will not buy your console. Nintendo doing this "think about the children" excuse for limiting features in games is some fuckery.

It's not about the Wii U. It's about Splatoon being a game with a 7 (or 10+) age rating on the box and trying to make the Splatoon ecosystem as secure as possible.

As for solutions I think a party chat system would be apt, but it doesn't seem they have any plans for that. In the potentially infinite interim I think Skype (or one of the applications more specifically designed for this purpose, like Team Speak) will allow for those who want to chat with a Splatoon party to do so relatively easily. Yes it's a 'hack', but a reasonable one I think. Splatoon was made with the assumption of needless toxicity in an online shooter community and you can see it goes to great lengths to avoid letting that boil up above the surface.

I'm happy that young children will get a relatively 'safe' online experience, and I think that leaving no voice chat option is one of the concessions necessary to assure this.

 

[Solid Samus]

Splattoon already provides all the information you could possibly say, faster, and far more accurate, than you could ever verbally express, and it constantly updates in real time.

Like I pointed out earlier to you, you're giving this very little thought...

Even when a game is designed around offering players visual indicators, it's all reactionary. As in, you can't prepare, or make plans, or communicate with another player on any level except reacting to something they've already done. Whereas through voice you can do all these things, plus notify your friends of things you're just noticing and reacting to. Hence the desire for voice-chat in the teamwork-based context. It allows for more, period. You've proven to me that you don't understand what voice chat can even offer any game in this particular context.

Making the claim that voice chat is inherently useless because this game takes measures to supply some information to players is flawed at best.
And I'm still advocating for team chat mainly in the context that I'd like to have the option to easily chat and have social fun with the people I add online or in real life (an element of multiplayer which your downplaying of is quite frankly asinine ESPECIALLY in defense of Nintendo), without having to whip out my tablet and set up Skype or trade personal details like my phone number with people I've only met through a game.

 

[Loptous]

Lots of people are ignoring the Wii U there's a reason it's selling less than both the PS4 and XBX1. This is one of them.

And yet, MH4U, a coop game which doesn't have voice chat, is somehow the fastest selling MH to date.

 

[Neff]

Its not a standardized game. It doesnt use standardized features.

The designers saw that verbal communication was made redundant strategically by the design of the game, and decided that with the pro already covered, they didnt want to deal with the con side of the coin.

Precisely. If communication really was a requisite for Splatoon, they would have implemented something at least. The fact that they already tried the game with set team commands, then ditched them because they just weren't relevant to the design, tells me they did everything they needed to. The squids simply move so fast, and the paint layouts change so rapidly -not to mention that the Gamepad tells you everything- that the effectiveness of the usual "That sniper is over here" or "I'll drive this guy out while you ambush him" strategies are lessened. With the speed the game moves at, and the way the tide can turn so quickly, Attempting to stick to a specific gameplan could potentially be counter-productive. Adaptive play and fast reactions win the day.

That said, all any of us have had of the game outside of trade shows is literally three hours. We should come back and have this debate after a few weeks of play, and see if the Skype crew found a way to make chat enhance the experience.

 

[MouldyK]

And yet, MH4U, a coop game which doesn't have voice chat, is somehow the fastest selling MH to date.

"I Mounted It!" is good enough for people to not hit the monster. And also other things it has.

 

[Reebot]

And yet, MH4U, a coop game which doesn't have voice chat, is somehow the fastest selling MH to date.

3.5 million shipped worldwide.

I'm sure Call of Duty curses its voice chat for holding it back from sales like that.

 

[Fandangox]

I think another flaw in thinking is assuming it's a team centric game. Sure, it's 4v4, but

"I think another flaw in thinking it's a team centric game. Sure it's a team centric game but"

what

 

[MutFox]

Why don't Nintendo just put parental controls on voice chat?
You can even set it that only friends can be accessible in chat.

Or possibly just having party chat follow you through games,
so you can stay in contact with your friends in a lobby.

Also, let you easily block communication from certain individuals.
(It's a common setting in games, online harassment goes down)

If you watch pro teams play competitve, voice chat is a must.
It's just adds that extra layer in a game.
If you've tried it, it's very fun and immersive.

They could even have full competive mode with voice chat.
And casual mode, for people that don't understand parental controls and muting.

 

[Amir0x]

Precisely. If communication really was a requisite for Splatoon, they would have implemented something at least. The fact that they already tried the game with set team commands, then ditched them because they just weren't relevant to the design, tells me they did everything they needed to. The squids simply move so fast, and the paint layouts change so rapidly -not to mention that the Gamepad tells you everything- that the effectiveness of the usual "That sniper is over here" or "I'll drive this guy out while you ambush him" strategies are lessened. With the speed the game moves at, and the way the tide can turn so quickly, Attempting to stick to a specific gameplan could potentially be counter-productive. Adaptive play and fast reactions win the day.

There are multiplayer team games much faster than Splatoon that still are far superior strategically in a team with voice. Nothing Splatoon does is too fast to have viable team based strategies applied for superior play.

You guys are just inventing nonsense to support an untenable position.

 

[Raide]

And yet, MH4U, a coop game which doesn't have voice chat, is somehow the fastest selling MH to date.

Its not really complicated. "See monster , kill it." And yet, the best teams actually do use alternative methods for voice chat so they can plan things better. Some stuff just does not get through quickly enough without voice.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

And yet, MH4U, a coop game which doesn't have voice chat, is somehow the fastest selling MH to date.

Oh, you mean a franchise that has never had voice chat is comparable to a competitive game in a genre for which voice chat is a basic feature?

This is dumb AF

 

[Overside]

The scenario implies equally skilled teams, one with voice-chat and one without. I believe muteless was a typo. If not, then it would be 2 equally skilled teams with different versions of voice chat. How are you not getting this?

Any team that has voice chat will destroy a team without it.



Nope. Having to look down at my lap is not faster than saying "Blue 3" or "2 at ramp two". The minimap that provides said information is in my lap, as opposed to the smart design decision of having it at 50% opacity in a corner of the screen. Many of the times Splatoon is "Different" is detrimental to the gamer playing it.

Because that would be a completely fictitious situation impossible to pull off in real life.

He wanted one team (my team) playing on mute, and the other team with skype or some other third party solution, but he said 'muteless', instead of mute, or really, he didnt need to say anything, since the game is mute by default.

Both teams having voice chat would be completely pointless to the posit.

But, nice try. (Not really)

No, a minimap wouldnt work, and you still dont understand the point of the game. Running into enemies is not important. Dying, is not important. You are still trying to shoehorn this game, into being a traditional shooter where you run around and kill the enemy, which is EXACTLY what you are talking about. 'Bad guys here!' Bad guys there!'

Besides, there are specific sub and special weapons designed to make this a gameplay element.

A minimap would be pointless because it would be a mini mpa, when you need the WHOLE map, because of the way the game is designed.

And no, having to look at the gamepad is not that big of a deal,especially in a game like this.

There is no penalty for death, and there is no reward for kills.

 

[krypt0nian]

And yet, MH4U, a coop game which doesn't have voice chat, is somehow the fastest selling MH to date.

And the current fastest selling console has voice chat standard.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

People defending not having voice chat. I mean really? Y'all are literally insane if you're really trying to argue lack of chat as a positive.

Also in the end it'll cause a drop in sales or people will find way around it like using Skype. Not having voice chat is not a feature, it's a lack of oversight.

 

[Ramirez]

I just don't understand defending the no voice chat option. I mean hell, bury it deep in the menus where only adults could find it and make it private parties if you must, but to leave it out completely...and then defend their decision? lol

 

[R_thanatos]

As obvious as it was that this thread would be this long I'm very curious how many people having so much angst over the exclusion of voice chat praised Journey.

I wonder if any of them following or participating in this discussion have forgotten about how much they acknowledged voice chat wasn't everything.

Voice chat is a very useful feature by allowing people to refine their team work. When you start any game it's not something you need. You can enjoy a game simply on the merits of how your personal experience without having to worry about what other people are doing.

Journey is entirely different.
First
Journey does offer a mean of communication

Second ,
Journey is a game were co-operation is NOT required in order to do your journey ( journey is entirely finissable offline ),

Third
it's not even a FPS game so it's a different genre.

 

[MrPanic]

"I think another flaw in thinking it's a team centric game. Sure it's a team game but"

what

Ftfy. I'm trying to say there's a difference between team games that glorify the team and team games that glorify the player.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Agree or disagree with the lack of voice chat? Fine. Call it cheap and lazy? You're a clown who has no business writing about video games.

 

[Past]

I don't understand why some people think that Splatoon will be filled with "raging assholes" online, those people are more likely to be found in games like CoD or GTA V. I highly doubt Splatoon will attract those people.

 

[Boy Wander]

I can see that because it is a family friendly title on a family friendly console, they didn't want to implement it. But surely they could hide it behind parental controls or something. I'm not into online gaming in the slightest, but its the lack of choice that rankles.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

We need to make a big deal about this to hopefully impact decisions for the NX.

 

[Petrae]

It's not about the Wii U. It's about Splatoon being a game with a 7 (or 10+) age rating on the box and trying to make the Splatoon ecosystem as secure as possible.

As for solutions I think a party chat system would be apt, but it doesn't seem they have any plans for that. In the potentially infinite interim I think Skype (or one of the applications more specifically designed for this purpose, like Team Speak) will allow for those who want to chat with a Splatoon party to do so relatively easily. Yes it's a 'hack', but a reasonable one I think. Splatoon was made with the assumption of needless toxicity in an online shooter community and you can see it goes to great lengths to avoid letting that boil up above the surface.

I'm happy that young children will get a relatively 'safe' online experience, and I think that leaving no voice chat option is one of the concessions necessary to assure this.

It's possible to still maintain an ESRB rating of E or E10 and have online interactions covered as unrated, as we saw in Animal Crossing: City Folk and other games that have online communication. Age ratings should not have anything to do with this decision.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Agree or disagree with the lack of voice chat? Fine. Call it cheap and lazy? You're a clown who has no business writing about video games.

But it is both.
Add misguided or out of touch to that and we've got a stew going.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

There is no penalty for death, and there is no reward for kills.

This claim invalidates everything you've said, because it's clear that you haven't played the game. I have. And I can tell you right now that verbal communication for any game, team based or not, is hugely beneficial.

 

[GreatestHits]

Was it not a design decision at all?

 

[MouldyK]

We need to make a big deal about this to hopefully impact decisions for the NX.

Well Region Free and Unified Account Systems seem all but in, so maybe!

 

[Neff]

There are multiplayer team games much faster than Splatoon that still are far superior strategically in a team with voice.

Such as? Do they have arenas of equally modest size? Do they also offer an in-game map featuring the same concise volume of information? Let's talk about Splatoon and the specifics of it, rather than comparing it to other games and saying 'Splatoon should be like this BECAUSE'.

nonsense

great

 

[Kusagari]

Agree or disagree with the lack of voice chat? Fine. Call it cheap and lazy? You're a clown who has no business writing about video games.

No. The only clowns are Nintendo who clearly have no business making online games.