duck_sauce
Member
I did not say that this forum is not for me. I been a member for a while now. I care about this forum. I just wanted to raise concerns and talk about it.
Not quite sure why a lot of people want to see me leave....
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I'm a bit worried.....
- Thread starter duck_sauce
- Start date
Not quite sure why a lot of people want to see me leave....
Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
I dont want you to leave - I just said if GAF wasn't for you there is an alternative.
OverHeat
« generous god »
I gave you gold for the effort…but come on.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
It's about more than just moderation.
duck_sauce
Member
I know you don’t want me to leave, but the amount of "goodbye" and "please go" gifs was more than I expected from a platform that centers around discussion.
I’m not that easily offended, and if I ever decide I don’t want to be part of this community, I’ll just quietly step away.
XXL
Member
There is a wide difference between here and Resetera.
For example, you would be banned for saying the opposite of what you're saying there instantly and the thread would have been permanently deleted.
On the flip side, actual racists and bigots get banned here quickly.....on Era they thrive and are celebrated.
delfrickintree
Banned
o
2. Will you marry me
1. Never mass reply like this again
2. Will you marry me
Gonzito
Gold Member
Man dont take things so seriously, people here express their opinions, sometimes in good ways sometimes in bad ways, but just ignore those things you dont like and move on. You need to accept that sometimes things are out of your control and this one is one them.
I think every website is toxic, GAF is toxic, Resetera too, twitter, reddit....any place in internet where people anonymously participate and speak freely has toxicity
But I tell you something, to me GAF is the lesser evil, here at least you can speak your mind freely without getting banned. I cant say the same thing for the purple forum
WhamBamThankYouMaam
Member
Are we talking circumcision now?
GymWolf
Member
I'm not gonna play this game with you, your first post was already pretty clear on what are your thoughts.
No doubt there is some real racist inbetween the anti-woke brigade exactly lile there are some rotten apples in every group, but most of the people just want this shit out of their entertainment products.
duck_sauce
Member
GudOlRub
Member
I, for one, hate everyone equally, I'll roll my eyes at both the people who say DA Veilguard is the best written game ever because of its inclusivity or that hot girls in games are bad because "mUh SeXiSm", but I'll also roll my eyes at the people who screeched like idiots and said AW2 is garbage because Remedy race swapped Saga Anderson from Quantum Break to Alan Wake 2, despite those games not even being set in the same universe so technically they aren't even the same character.
XXL
Member
No one wants you to leave.I know you don’t want me to leave, but the amount of "goodbye" and "please go" gifs was more than I expected from a platform that centers around discussion.
I’m not that easily offended, and if I ever decide I don’t want to be part of this community, I’ll just quietly step away.
Posters are just being edgy posting gifs, expect that everywhere on the internet.
90% of this discussion is explaining the differences between here and there.
OverHeat
« generous god »
Palabragrís
Member
I don't stand for just posting gifs without adding an argument. Now, and I hate to be the old man here, but believe when I tell you it was waaaaaaaaaay worse in the 90s and early 2000s.
The Internet 1.0 was wild. And that's what amuses me the most: The people banning others just for their opinion wouldn't have survived a week back then.
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OverHeat
« generous god »
Aguero9320
Member
I agree with the OP, but this is not the place I want to debate it, and it’s infecting everything. I come here to read about games, and hopefully enjoy them. It’s getting harder and I come here less as a result - not asking anyone to care, it’s just a shame for me as I used to enjoy this place a lot more.
As a counter to the people saying ‘extreme right today was Everyman a few years ago’, it is so weird to me what people consider to be ‘extreme left’ these days, particularly in America… The democrats here are centre right, centrist at most yet the Republicans are frothing like Stalin would have considered them too extreme - it is, frankly, complete bullshit. The whole debate has been hijacked by people who, for some reason, cannot stand to let people just live their lives, and feel the need to inject themselves into matters that have no effect on them. Whatsoever. (And no, completely optional things in a character generator do not affect you in any way).
For me, being tolerant is the better of the two choices, so I try to do that. Whether it’s race, sexuality or politics. My opinion is just my opinion and not everyone needs to hear them. Hating everyone all the time is just exhausting, so I stay away from today’s Republican Party. Equally, I stay away from the democrats because they are useless, and just Diet Republican these days.
As a counter to the people saying ‘extreme right today was Everyman a few years ago’, it is so weird to me what people consider to be ‘extreme left’ these days, particularly in America… The democrats here are centre right, centrist at most yet the Republicans are frothing like Stalin would have considered them too extreme - it is, frankly, complete bullshit. The whole debate has been hijacked by people who, for some reason, cannot stand to let people just live their lives, and feel the need to inject themselves into matters that have no effect on them. Whatsoever. (And no, completely optional things in a character generator do not affect you in any way).
For me, being tolerant is the better of the two choices, so I try to do that. Whether it’s race, sexuality or politics. My opinion is just my opinion and not everyone needs to hear them. Hating everyone all the time is just exhausting, so I stay away from today’s Republican Party. Equally, I stay away from the democrats because they are useless, and just Diet Republican these days.
Topher
Identifies as young
Perhaps, but it is an important distinction and a valid one. The OP would already be banned on Era. That is a crucial difference.
Miggytronz
Member
This!
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Sure, but what he is talking about is the hyvemind and echo-chamber that's being created and he is 100% correct.
I've never been to Era, but every time I see a fellow Gaffer describe it, it's basically Gaf in a nutshell.
Or at least, Gaf nowadays.
Concord is almost like the final straw that has pushed anti-Woke (on Gaf) over the edge and effectively made them as poisonous and detrimental as Woke.
It's not like I never addressed this before and like clockwork, the reaction on Gaf to statements like these, ironically, is exactly like what you'd expect from the Woke-crowd and Cancel-culture.
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Hugare
Member
Sometimes people have shitty opinions. That's life in society. They have their right to express them. And here you can debate against them or ignore them.
About the echo chamber thing: well, one extreme will always result in the existence of an exact opposite. That's how it is. No forum out there other than GAF where they can habit, so here it is.
Sentenza
Member
My personal "moderate" take on the topic is that
- on one hand I'd rather avoid the downward spiral of listening to every word coming from confirmed MORONS like Grummz, Endymion or Doctor Disaster (and the other half million dudes with the same anti-woke youtubers shitting the same headlines over and over), nor I want to spend my days crying every time a woman or some "ethnic" character shows up on the screen.
- On the other hand, fuck me if I'm going to go back to "fall in line" with the purple retards and start buying into every goddamn cry against "oppression" or their reality-warping claims about "sexual identity being a social construct", "gender being fluid" "trans people actually becoming people of the opposite sex", "women being the most victimized minority on the planet" and whatever other delusion the freaks love to push.
When we had the stealth pedos like Opiate and Amirox claiming the moral high ground above everyone else and you could get banned on a whim for "wrong thinking".
- on one hand I'd rather avoid the downward spiral of listening to every word coming from confirmed MORONS like Grummz, Endymion or Doctor Disaster (and the other half million dudes with the same anti-woke youtubers shitting the same headlines over and over), nor I want to spend my days crying every time a woman or some "ethnic" character shows up on the screen.
- On the other hand, fuck me if I'm going to go back to "fall in line" with the purple retards and start buying into every goddamn cry against "oppression" or their reality-warping claims about "sexual identity being a social construct", "gender being fluid" "trans people actually becoming people of the opposite sex", "women being the most victimized minority on the planet" and whatever other delusion the freaks love to push.
You clearly never witnessed the genuine BAD days of "GAF being an echo chamber".
When we had the stealth pedos like Opiate and Amirox claiming the moral high ground above everyone else and you could get banned on a whim for "wrong thinking".
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MarkMe2525
Banned
I agree with 90% of OP. I am down with pushing back against many "design" decisions that these publishers and leads were forcing down our throat, but it's shifted into something I'm not comfortable with. Echo chamber vibes for sure. Not so much from moderation, and not from the majority, but from a very very vocal minority.
Edit: in a nutshell, I find myself often feeling the same cringe feeling that I used to get, when I used to pop on over to the other side.
Edit: in a nutshell, I find myself often feeling the same cringe feeling that I used to get, when I used to pop on over to the other side.
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Topher
Identifies as young
It isn't. You would have to have been there to understand, I'm afraid.
Decal4
Neo Member
Agreed with your point.
As an aside, what is that golden Thrawn looking avatar from?
Draugoth
Gold Member
duck_sauce
Well, assuming this isn't a bait thread you are not wrong but as someone who had an account there i can tell you that Gaf is much more tame. A lot of people there were annoying and the mods were insufferable, despite some genuinely good people. I think it's good Gaf is somewhat the polar opposite.
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Decal4
Neo Member
1. Yeah once I posted this realized I should have done more individual replies, will do in the future
2. Maybe...ASLR?
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Read what I said.
Every time I see someone describe Era, it's like they're talking about Gaf.
I don't need to visit Era for that.
No idea when that was, but I can't remember that.
But like I said, it has less to do with moderation and more with hyvemind/echo-chamber. Which is what the OP was talking about as well.
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duck_sauce
Member
I get that there are definitely differences between here and that other place. But sometimes, it feels like NeoGAF is slipping into the same kind of echo chamber vibe, just from the other direction. I’m all for having a space where people aren’t banned for every opposing view, but I think we start to cross a line where criticism of certain ideas just leads to more hostility and anger instead of real discussion.
MarkMe2525
Banned
I agree in the sense that you don't generally have to worry about a ban for being a contrarian here. There are other differences of course, but this one sticks out, as moderation doesn't steer the conversation here, as it does on the other forum.
Topher
Identifies as young
Well, assuming this isnt a bait thread you are not wrong but as someone who had an account there i can tell you that Gaf is much more tame. A lot of people there were annoying and the mods were insufferable, despite some genuinely good. I think it's good Gaf is somewhat the polar opposite.
I know for myself, and I think many others agree, I'd rather the subject of "woke" was something that never had to even be brought up. On Era, I was banned for saying something similar about politics in general as a subject. Even the slightest hint of dissent on Era can be met with such action. If we are going to talk about a "hivemind" then that's what I think of. This thread wouldn't exist on Era.
I did read what you said and I think you do for the reason I just said above
XXL
Member
Omg. The tag! Lol.
justsomeguy
Member
Humdinger
Gold Member
Exhorting an entire community to behave differently rarely works, unless you're Martin Luther King, Jr. or someone like that. I appreciate you expressing your opinion, but it won't change anything. People will continue to have their opinions and behave as they see fit.
I agree that the anti-woke stuff gets out of hand sometimes, but so does the anti-anti-woke stuff. I think it's better to deal with it case-by-case, one-on-one, rather than in a "message to the community" like this. You inevitably end up lecturing to people who have not done what you're accusing them of doing, producing backlash. Better to speak up individually and directly in the threads where you think it is happening.
I agree that the anti-woke stuff gets out of hand sometimes, but so does the anti-anti-woke stuff. I think it's better to deal with it case-by-case, one-on-one, rather than in a "message to the community" like this. You inevitably end up lecturing to people who have not done what you're accusing them of doing, producing backlash. Better to speak up individually and directly in the threads where you think it is happening.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
It would be great if there was less conflict, but the reality is that art and game creation has been taken over by poltical activism and infested by an ideology that many average people find repugnant. It breaks the immersion for many when they're trying to indoctrinate through art with modern American liberal values with Trans/Non-binary/"Anti" Racism shit. The art becomes lesser for it hence why once successful IPs are now really struggling and studios are closing.
Therefore as long as they try and shove it down our throats and continue their takeover of the arts then you're going to get a sizeable amount who will push back and its now a big part of the discourse whether we like it or not.
Obviously people do get carried away amongst that and we should take a step back more often, work on our lives rather than get carried away with this stuff and support the games and arts we think are doing the right things.
Therefore as long as they try and shove it down our throats and continue their takeover of the arts then you're going to get a sizeable amount who will push back and its now a big part of the discourse whether we like it or not.
Obviously people do get carried away amongst that and we should take a step back more often, work on our lives rather than get carried away with this stuff and support the games and arts we think are doing the right things.
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NickFire
Member
If the people making games (or movies) had listened to posters here a few years ago they could have saved hundreds of millions (or way more) industry wide.
Sorry not sorry OP. This place is no echo chamber. It’s just more representative of the actual audience than anywhere else dedicated to gaming.
Sorry not sorry OP. This place is no echo chamber. It’s just more representative of the actual audience than anywhere else dedicated to gaming.
darrylgorn
Member
Is the OP a paradox?
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I appreciate the honesty and I will say that while I agree with pushing back against the woke cultural shift is good it can be tiresome. That is why I like to joke about it. It keeps me engaged and not enraged and gets my point across. We have had some great members here that our Trans and probably WOKE too. No issue with it, I just think it is weird to shove it and shoe horn it into everything you consume. Like the news media always trying to find angle to add race to the discussion.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Can anyone give us a simple example of these types of cases OP is referring to, like when someone makes a balanced or non-anti-woke statement and gets insulted and attacked for it? I may not read enough shit on here, but I've never really seen that. What I do see instead is we sometimes get a couple new users that passive aggressively try to stir up arguments and needless discussions about woke related stuff. When you have a forum this big, statistically you catch a psychopath of massive narcissist once in a while, and they enjoy doing that. All i can see here is an exchange of differing opinions, but very rarely below the lines that should never be crossed.
Decal4
Neo Member
I would argue that GAFs delight at concord failing is while probably over the top and arguably tone deaf if you squint (due strictly to game developers who did not have creative control losing jobs) is not the site at its finest.
But I contend that until such a time as there are entire generations of game studios that are having games not sell because they are just so... Whatever an anti-actual woke game looks like, I guess a game that rewards players acting out the dictionary definitions of bigotry and prejudice? And there are so many of those games that nobody can just have escapism from the modern political tribalism going around, so they end up not purchasing those games because they are sick unto death of the bigotry being injected into every single game so as to attract reverse modern audiences, I would not say gaf is anywhere near there.
Probably that is missing the point of what you are saying. I only write all that to show my POV that gaf is while somewhat oppositional in terms of direction, in terms of absolute value distance from dead center, gaf is much closer to that than other sites around.
And as far as the unpopular reaction goes, I don't think that is unique to this site, I think there is definitely standard human behavior of jumping on the bandwagon or, conversely, walking into a room with an audience that has a common set of views and then directly challenging those views to the entire room.
I don't expect to get a good reaction if I walk into a given church and start conducting Satanist rituals.
I also don't expect to get a good reaction if I walk into a political office of party A and start arguing all the policy planks of party B.
So I guess I'm contending here to convince you not to lay that same behaviors happening here as being a symptom of a disease necessarily, but being a current state of play on the sites current user makeup, and just like how groups can change in opinions over time, if you fast forward a few years, the sites current consensus will probably look different.
No. Because when I hear people used the world "woke" they don't care about it's origin and original usage and folks general idea of being "woke" is whatever I don't like shouldn't be in the stuff I consume.
Also, you can speak for everyone now? Unless others gave you the right to speak for them, you can only speak for yourself.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
And I'd file a reaction like this under lack of self-reflection.
One being worse doesn't mean the other is much different.
GymWolf
Member
From the number of likes i'm getting, the number of woke projects that are failing compared to the successful ones and the very incipit of this topic that talk about gaf being mostly anti-woke to a fault, i can safely say that a lot of gamers are on my side, of course i can't speak for everyone, dah.