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[Topher]

And I'd file a reaction like this under lack of self-reflection.

One being worse doesn't mean the other is much different.

Not sure I follow what you mean by "a reaction like this". You mean this thread?

 

[Synless]

Hm, not confident in this review of Gaf.

I was here almost 20 years ago, I was here during the collapse, I’ve been here for the rebuild.

What I can say is we can criticize, we can have opinions that vary. What I don’t see is calls for witch hunts, cancel culture (not supporting a developer is not cancel culture), mass bannings for the smallest of reasons or unrealistic ones.

No, no Gaf and its users are certainly not the same.

 

[Kabelly]

lol

"starting"

these two sites are ying and yang

 

[OverHeat]

GAF who deserves gold in this thread?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

It isn't. You would have to have been there to understand, I'm afraid.

Yup I went GAF > Era > GAF.

I spent a few years on Era and that place is hell.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I think it’s a good thing that wokeness and toxic positivity are freely discussed and ridiculed here. Most places will ban you for even suggesting those are actual things. Hell we just yesterday saw DualShockers edit their Veilguard review and removing the part saying it “got the Sweet Baby treatment”.

Yeah sometimes it goes too far with people just making low effort posts and steering EVERYTHING toward culture war stuff. Hey, if there’s a thread about a game with some big titty waifus and you come to post “OMG THE ERA PURPLE HAIRS ARE GONNA BE SO TRIGGERED” then you should think twice about hitting the Submit button.

But come on. When you see shit like this:

sorry, I’m not going to refrain from making a mockery out of it. Give me a break.

Maybe if someone inside the company had the balls to tell them this stuff is retarded, we could’ve got some better games and these companies could’ve avoided hundreds of millions in losses.

 

[Palabragrís]

Exhorting an entire community to behave differently rarely works, unless you're Martin Luther King, Jr. or someone like that. I appreciate you expressing your opinion, but it won't change anything. People will continue to have their opinions and behave as they see fit.

I agree that the anti-woke stuff gets out of hand sometimes, but so does the anti-anti-woke stuff. I think it's better to deal with it case-by-case, one-on-one, rather than in a "message to the community" like this. You inevitably end up lecturing to people who have not done what you're accusing them of doing, producing backlash. Better to speak up individually and directly in the threads where you think it is happening.

Sorry, but I disagree. I think topics like these can be necessary when part of a community. It shows the OP cares about this place and, believe it or not, it's good to have the chance to vent your fears away in places you spend a lot of time in.

Even better if we can control our passions and be respectful to the disenting opinion.

 

[Jaybe]

The most toxic and insulting people that have come onto this forum lately are those that were banned from Ree after years there and within a few posts are dropping unhinged insults constantly. It’s like they have lost the ability to discuss or debate issues. At least seem to get banned quite quick as throwing out insults isn’t welcome here. It’s rare to see any attacks on members particularly from long term members, if any, they are jokes. 99% of discourse is in the subject or issue at hand here, and thankfully free thought that falls in the TOCs of this site is fine to express when civil.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Come on lads...

 

[Esparadrapo]

It would be great if there was less conflict, but the reality is that art and game creation has been taken over by poltical activism and infested by an ideology that many average people find repugnant. It breaks the immersion for many when they're trying to indoctrinate through art with modern American liberal values with Trans/Non-binary/"Anti" Racism shit. The art becomes lesser for it hence why once successful IPs are now really struggling and studios are closing.

Therefore as long as they try and shove it down our throats and continue their takeover of the arts then you're going to get a sizeable amount who will push back and its now a big part of the discourse whether we like it or not.

Obviously people do get carried away amongst that and we should take a step back more often, work on their lives rather than get carried away with this stuff and support the games and arts we think are doing the right things.

That's BS. "Wokeness" has always been the majority of the entertainment industry. "Woke-persons" are the vast majority of the personnel in the entertainment industry. The whole industry revolves around making money out of love, being nice, heroism and fighting injustice and that has been going on forever.

If you suddenly noticed it I have very bad news for you because you've been indoctrinated by the entertainment industry since before you were able to talk. Music, movies, shows, games, sports and everything in general teach you how to be nice and yet here we are, discussing why being nice to minorities must be barred from the industry because a bunch of toxic purple haired people. Instead of being the bigger person and vote with your wallet you choose to turn the assholery to 11.

The average production quality in everything has dropped dramatically and it has nothing to do with "wokeism". You can have productions labeled as "woke" that are utter failures and other that are smash hits. Same with other works not labeled as such. "Woke" doesn't have anything to do with the fate of a production.

 

[NickFire]

Music, movies, shows, games, sports and everything in general teach you how to be nice

Oh my sweet summer child . . . . .

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

Agreed with your point.

As an aside, what is that golden Thrawn looking avatar from?

Albert Wesker from RE5 - as the username hopefully alludes to!

 

[Topher]

and yet here we are, discussing why being nice to minorities must be barred from the industry because a bunch of toxic purple haired people. Instead of being the bigger person and vote with your wallet you choose to turn the assholery to 11.

 

[Kings Field]

Nah, the days of laying down and being labeled a Nazi by the mentally ill is over. Time to speak up.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Yup I went GAF > Era > GAF.

I spent a few years on Era and that place is hell.

I’m impressed you lasted that long. I think I made it a month.

There was some thread like “as a gay gamer, am I entitled to have the same number of gay romance options as straight ones in RPGs? I’m going to say yes.”

And ALL the responses were treating this person like a spoiled child. “OH, OH YES, of COURSE you’re entitled to that! No reasonable person could possibly disagree with that!” It was so clear that you were only allowed to have one response to this kind of question.

So I just said “oh totally, in fact I hope some day we can engineer a world with the same number of gay people as straight ones, that way we can all have the equal number of dating prospects that we are entitled to”

That was that lol, good riddance.

 

[laynelane]

Although I can see your perspective, asking for discussions to be more heavily moderated is the antithesis of what I like about this forum. If you don't like where a discussion is going, there are several options available to you - put the topic and/or user on ignore, engage with it, 'live and let live', rebut it, etc. There are many options available to you besides appealing to authority.

As well, as a person who is often involved in these discussions, there are plenty of differing viewpoints. That's what's valuable about this forum - that there can be. If you go to Reddit or Reset, many topics and opinions considered "anti-woke" are heavily censored or outright banned. It doesn't "promote balanced viewpoints and discourage personal attacks" - it creates an echo chamber that is actively hostile to anyone who doesn't tow the line.

Also, why is it that disagreeing with DEI is always reduced to "hatred or intolerance" and a desire to shut down or moderate discussion? I see it in your post and also in topics surrounding it on the forum. It's consistent and very off-putting, to be frank.

 

[Rush2112]

Great, a fuckin reddit post.

 

[lmimmfn]

 

[Ammogeddon]

Look I get it, you preordered DA Veilguard. I’m not going to knock you for it.

 

[Kacho]

Woke shit has run its course and is on the way out

 

[nnytk]

It's ironic to see so much cynicism and negativity in these comments. Fellow lurker here and someone who has been browsing /v/ and Resetera for years until I joined NeoGAF not too long ago.

I love how tolerant this place is towards varying opinions and points of view. But at times the echo chamber vibes in here are real. I've seen some homophobic and transphobic behavior. And plain negativity, console warring, etc.

Extremism and dogma's should never be the answer imo. Live and let live. Identity politics are silly.

Positivity is key.

 

[BigBeauford]

The last 10 years, we have seen the majority of hobbies, primarily catering to men, be infested by a segment of people who want to see us pushed out of our spaces. We just want escapism, not another vector to be told what a bunch of shit bags we are. So we're pushing back.

 

[64bitmodels]

It's ironic to see so much cynicism and negativity in these comments. Fellow lurker here and someone who has been browsing /v/ and Resetera for years until I joined NeoGAF not too long ago.

I love how tolerant this place is towards varying opinions and points of view. But as a new member I have to admit, at times the echo chamber vibes in here are real. I've seen some homophobic and transphobic behavior. And plain whining and negativity, console warring, etc.

Extremism and dogma's should never be the answer imo. Live and let live. Identity politics are silly.

Positivity is key.

its a testament to how fucking wild GAF is when a /v/ lurker is scared of this place

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Nah....fuck these blue haired cunt devs and the woke DEI infused culture they are attempting to push into games. I've been gaming for over 40yrs (yes im old lol), im not about to sit here and take it. OP, you can go somewhere else if you don't like it. I think you need a Fragile tag.

 

[Decal4]

Albert Wesker from RE5 - as the username hopefully alludes to!

Thanks!

Also, why is it that disagreeing with DEI is always reduced to "hatred or intolerance" and a desire to shut down or moderate discussion?

It's the postmodernist verbal judo in action. When humans express dislike at DEI advocacy for any reason (for this example lets say its negative externalities like social cooling, toxic positivity, and other disliked fruits), they are not taken at their word, they are assumed to be doing a dog whistle for emotional animus against what the oppressed, therefore the humans are part of the oppressor class, and therefore they must be silenced. If you want to be the cool club fighting for the oppressed, you by implicit doctrine are required to take people's arguments in bad faith and judge them unworthy for it as a result, lest you too be insufficiently zealous for the Cause.

Meanwhile those of us outside the cool kids club are annoyed and repulsed because we don't want to agitate for Le Resistance, we want to chat about whatever the topic is (games in this case).

 

[adamsapple]

I somewhat feel you OP.

RE: Dragon Age Veilguard: I'm not sure if there's gonna be a single topic that folks who are playing the game can discuss it in without every other post being a derail. I just want a topic to just talk about the game.

 

[Esparadrapo]

 

[nnytk]

Nah....fuck these blue haired cunt devs and the woke DEI infused culture they are attempting to push into games. I've been gaming for over 40yrs (yes im old lol), im not about to sit here and take it. OP, you can go somewhere else if you don't like it. I think you need a Fragile tag.

I think this type of angry boomer rhetoric isn't landing, and isn't a great look. At least, that's what OP is trying to express as far as I can tell.

And I must agree.

It's ok to be upset or to have an opinion, but it would be nice if NeoGAF could be bit more moderate. The last thing the world needs is extremes and further polarization.

And yes, I agree with your point, I don't want Concord or Dragon Age style games at all. But do we have to be blunt and immature about it?

 

[Topher]

 

[UnrealEck]

Woke is so 2023.
I prefer 'gender Marxism'

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

I think this type of angry boomer rhetoric isn't landing, and isn't a great look. At least, that's what OP is trying to express as far as I can tell.

And I must agree.

It's ok to be upset or to have an opinion, but it would be nice if NeoGAF could be bit more moderate. The last thing the world needs is extremes and further polarization.

And yes, I agree with your point, I don't want Concord or Dragon Age style games at all. But do we have to be blunt and immature about it?

It's being passive about it which has allowed it to get where it is at now. So yes, the time to be nice is over.

 

[nnytk]

I somewhat feel you OP.

RE: Dragon Age Veilguard: I'm not sure if there's gonna be a single topic that folks who are playing the game can discuss it in without every other post being a derail. I just want a topic to just talk about the game.

Exactly, this.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Not sure I follow what you mean by "a reaction like this". You mean this thread?

Your reasoning. Poor wording on my part.

 

[Little Chicken]

There are some very... interesting attitudes towards women on here.

 

[BigBeauford]

I think this type of angry boomer rhetoric isn't landing, and isn't a great look. At least, that's what OP is trying to express as far as I can tell.

And I must agree.

It's ok to be upset or to have an opinion, but it would be nice if NeoGAF could be bit more moderate. The last thing the world needs is extremes and further polarization.

And yes, I agree with your point, I don't want Concord or Dragon Age style games at all. But do we have to be blunt and immature about it?

This mindset is exactly how we got to the point of the first mass exodus. A little moderation here, moderation there, maybe we should ban this source, maybe you shouldn't talk like that, and BAM! This place turns into a hellhole all over again.

 

[Topher]

Your reasoning. Poor wording on my part.

I could say the same about yours, but that's simply because we don't see eye to eye on this.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I could say the same about yours, but that's simply because we don't see eye to eye on this.

Yeah, we have to agree to disagree here.

No harm done.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

People can say whatever they want so long as they aren't being racist, homophonic, sexist and so on. (Basically something that would get the forum in trouble)

Except a chunk of that happens all the fucking time here these days. But hey, let’s pretend it doesn’t.

 

[Topher]

I somewhat feel you OP.

RE: Dragon Age Veilguard: I'm not sure if there's gonna be a single topic that folks who are playing the game can discuss it in without every other post being a derail. I just want a topic to just talk about the game.

I've found that folks in OTs typically are able to discuss the game without all the drama. Hopefully that is the case with this game for those who don't want to engage in all the woke madness talk. There are already threads talking about that.

 

[IDKFA]

Except a chunk of that happens all the fucking time here these days. But hey, let’s pretend it doesn’t.

And people get banned for it. See the bans list for further details.

 

[Kvally]

I’ve been a longtime (lurking) member and have always appreciated this space for what it is, a forum where gamers can discuss their opinions, insights, and sometimes, their frustrations. However, I’m beginning to notice a disturbing trend here. GAF seems to be morphing more and more into an anti-woke echo chamber, and I think this shift is undermining the integrity of our community.

Let me be clear – I’m not a fan of woke ideology. Like many of you, I have my reservations about how it’s shaping the gaming industry and media at large. The trend toward more woke-friendly narratives and content in games, at times, feels forced and often detracts from the quality of the experience. Criticizing this direction in game development is valid, and these are discussions worth having.

However, what’s worrying to me is how Gaf, in its criticism of "woke" culture, is starting to mirror some of the same behavior that people criticize on another more purple coloured forum, just from the opposite side. The intolerance, aggression, and outright hostility toward other viewpoints are becoming just as prevalent here, and it’s honestly a little disheartening. The constant attacks, labeling, and echo chamber effect are alienating people who might think differently or hold a more moderate view. It's almost as if you’re either all-in with the dominant stance here or you're simply not welcome.

I wish that discussions here were moderated a bit more to promote balanced viewpoints and discourage personal attacks. I’d love to see users show more self-restraint, critical thinking, and maybe even a bit of self-reflection before posting purely emotional outbursts. We don’t all need to agree, but we do need to recognize each other’s humanity, especially when we disagree. After all, we’re all gamers here and came to this forum because we care about gaming.

Tolerance is a two-way street. Just as we criticize certain movements for pushing one-sided narratives and shutting down dissent, we need to be careful not to fall into the same trap. Tolerance means accepting that others might hold views we don’t like or agree with. It means treating others respectfully, even when we fundamentally disagree. I worry that we’re losing that here on GAF.

In the end, we’re all gamers, sharing this space to talk about a medium we care about. We don’t have to agree on every issue, but we should be able to disagree without devolving into hatred or intolerance. I hope we can steer the community back toward a more balanced and respectful discourse before it becomes something unrecognizable....

 

[SHAKEZ]

Think of it this way, the simple fact that this thread is able to stay up for you to voice your concerns and you're not instantly banned for it is why this place is way better than others.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Although I agree that most of the criticism towards "wokism" and DEI in general are justified, there are some here that are head deep into the incel territory. When you are too extreme you just make a clown out of yourself.

 

[Zacfoldor]

I feel like taking this thread seriously is a huge mistake. I feel like we are finally starting to own and control the gaming industry with our wallets and our zeitgeist and some people don't like it. I feel like we should keep the faith and trust in free speech and capitalism to sort out the gaming industry. If we keep voting with our wallets and rejecting woke games, we will win and they will acquiesce to our demands within a year or two after Concord.

Now I've been on gaming forums since I was a kid. I've rarely or never needed protection from the free speech of other users. Sometimes it is toxic, sometimes it is a fruitless discussion, but always, always, I've learned something from every interaction. Silencing users thru moderation will not help neogaf become less like the purple forum, it will make it become more like the purple forum. It will slow down our rare incel victories and silence our voices. We are people too and we have opinions too and our opinions are more popular amongst the average core gamer. Woke opinions are acceptable everywhere, including here. Our harmless opinions are rejected everywhere except a few core gaming forums around the net. Yet you want to silence us here too?

The solution is for you to deal with it and watch us as we fly. You disagree, use your words and create a persona to fight your battles on the forums instead of trying to silence voices of people you disagree with.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Never give an inch to extremist ideologies, and never tolerate the intolerable.

They're ashamed of nothing, but offended by everything.

You get stuff like this,

Tom Brady sparks outrage with offensive term on Fox broadcast

Tom Brady raised some eyebrows with his commentary while calling the Bills-Seahawks game on Fox Sports on Sunday.

nypost.com

It's an emotional abusive manipulation mechanism to control you and language.

 

[kyussman]

Are we talking circumcision now?

I'm not sure what the point of this comment is tbh.I was talking about the damage done to children by lunatics brainwashed by the gender cult.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think Evilore and the mods have done a good job trying to moderate this discussion. Sweeping it under the rug is how we got a divide in the gaming industry in the first place. We gotta talk this out. And right now, the echo chamber of anti-wokesters is bigger than the wokesters. Thats something that needed to happen because the wokesters had made the internet a miserable fucking place.

Eventually things will calm down but this war needs to happen and we just have to survive it. Just stick to the OT and ignore the other talk if you think its nonsense. Free speech means everyone is allowed to voice their opinion and yes sometimes that can get messy.

 

[64bitmodels]

i agree with op excluding the comments about more moderation. This site is the way it is and if you wanted more moderated discussion, you can go to other places. And I don't necessarily mean Era.

Spoiler: essay

Personally I feel like one of the weirdest things here is how people will talk about other gaming sites/forums as if they're the fucking North Korean government.
For someone who plays as much as I do, GAF is not my only place to discuss games. Maybe I can understand the dissent towards era and how they will handle their censorship.
But then you get people being pissed about Reddit, Youtube, Twitter and Discord like there aren't dozens of right-wing gaming areas over there. It's hard for you guys to claim you're "normal gamers who just want woke out of our hobby" and not extreme or a bit too deep into this shit when people as centrist/center right as Act Man will get people here pissed off and scream to the heavens about Woke. People out here writing LARP messages about fighting the woke war and acting like you're on the battlefield, it's not that deep cuh.

Games that are great getting dogged on like Alan Wake 2 or Spiderman 2 because they had the audacity of portraying a liberal left wing city as a liberal left wing city, or trying to mod gay couples and black people out of the game. Race swapping a literal shapeshifter god into being white for whatever reason. There's hardly any way one can defend this type of behavior without making yourself sound really fucking homophobic and racist, and if you are gonna be like that you'd best just own up to it instead of trying to play the centrist.

People act like they're just standing up for normal values. That all this woke in the industry is the result of a bunch of blue-haired crazies. But it's really fucking crazy in of itself to lose your mind over every black woman or colored hair character in a western video game especially when japanese games have had "danger hair" protagonists since the dawn of Man. Fighting this war over a category of game (western triple-A productions) that people here were already getting sick of before a lot of the "woke" stuff started arriving between the battle passes, lootboxes, MTX and terribly made games. Why don't you sit down and play some indies? Nintendo games? etc. You guys wouldn't even like many of these games even if they were set back to 80s political standards, yet you're here crusading over them like it's a life-or-death situation. There were plenty of bad games before "woke" and there were plenty of bad games after "woke"

If you've even bothered to read this far you can probably guess that I'm left wing. I'm not going to sugarcoat it or act like i'm not in support of a lot of the values "woke" entails. One benefit of this is that I don't have to give a shit every time some game comes out with a gay black female protagonist or whatever. It doesn't faze me. I don't owe them my money and I wouldn't play it anyways because it's moreso the "millenial" aesthetics, high prices, season passes, terrible practices, pandering (not to minorities but to the current generation over issues that the rich suits directing this schlock have 0 ideas about) and general lack of inspiration that push me away than the obviously good representation. I feel like that's the thing that truly pisses people off, that they fail to see because it's typically packaged in with all the "woke" stuff. It's that overt Marvel Movie style of writing and similar color pallette, samey Californian fashion/character style that's overdone that really makes people mad. Hence why games that aren't even all that "woke" like many indie games or Saints Row 2022 get thrown under the bus under the same label. Hence why Baldur's Gate 3 with more of its own identity doesn't get hit with the same label. Hence why Elden Ring gets praise despite them changing gender to body type. People make judgments on whether a game is woke or not like Fairgame$ based on the color pallette and the characters hairstyle.

Is it really the representation or that same old same old millennial writing that's pissing you off? Those same ass aesthetics, style of writing, character design, generic slop style that tries to associate itself with a good cause to legitimize itself?
The lefties in the industry are out here making great games like Hades 2 and Baldur's Gate 3 and Celeste and Helldivers 2 and Terraria. It's not the "woke" politics that's ruining gaming it's just this pandering millennial/youth trend that's trying too hard to appeal to an audience that finds these games corny and unappealing. That same trend that dumbs down games like Dragon Age to appeal to the masses. You don't hate "woke" games because of the minorities or whatever, you hate them because of that. It's a thing going on the industry about as long as time itself, its just rebranded itself into a liberal hipster californian variant, and successfully managed to direct the hate from the trend chasing to the politics. Because people here failed to really separate the difference you have motherfuckers out here harboring a culture which enables grifters and far right assholes to speak their shit and push their terrible opinions and products.
Or at least, that's my read on this whole situation...

Anyways. I've said my piece. Shouldn't have put so much effort into it TBH. I'll probably make a thread about the Visual Novels i've read this year. Read a lot of fun ones.

 

[Dazraell]

Yup I went GAF > Era > GAF.

I spent a few years on Era and that place is hell.

Yeah, I was also there for a few years or so and man, I was always afraid of getting banned for simply sharing my thoughts criticizing things I didn't liked or defending something I felt was treated unfairly. People there are fucking nuts and can get onto you for most trivial things if it's not aligned with the hivemind

 

[//DEVIL//]

Recrap gives you a perma ban if you even make a thread like this, here you got Gold.

By default, this site is a million times better because you were at least able to express your opinion. for that you shouldnt complain.

However yes, we are against everything that site does. and we are against woke and its shit movement and forced agenda of LGTQABCDEF+. it shouldn't be in games.

The fact the whole Western shit media is trying to force this, we are almost considered a minority in the social media space. so we have the right to fight and shit on every woke movement.
Thankfully the majority of the world sees right through this shit. and why this woke shit is starting to fail one by another.

All these companies are starting to lose money on everything woke they release. Concord is the latest example., AC was before that from Ubisoft. etc

any game that push this, is getting destroyed. and thank god for that.