OrlanisWorks
Banned
Sounds about right.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I'm switiching from windows to mac,but.....Why are they so expensive!
- Thread starter Kleegamefan
- Start date
- Status
Sounds about right.
captainraincoat
Banned
my experience with macs is quite the opposite...if you are sensitive about macs or the "experience"...please dont read the below
They do have some nice accessories such as touch pads and retina displays that are not that common on other third party pcs or laptops but they are not worth the extra money imo
you are paying up to a third or double more simply for a brand name
and you can find or build/customize your own pc to have similar specs
I have had numerous issues with my Imac such as burn in ...dodgy network cards
and have been on the wonderful apple merry go round of repair......when i want to take an item back to a shop to get repaired i don't want to ring up and make an appointment with some failed barista only to get there and find out the person you are supposed to see is on their late enema break with another person telling me i need to make another appointment while im carrying possibly the most awkward and expensive item around to simply get dropped off and repaired
its a piece of electronic equipment...i do not want to discuss my feelings about the matter when i drop it off or have some idiot try and sell me a useless extended warranty
There are reasonable use laws covering electronics in aus...if your item fucks up after 12 months don't try and tell me you cant fix it because i didn't pay extra money for apple care as im sure the ACCC would love to hear the story
As for the mac laptops.....those fucking mag power connectors....if you get one bit of water anywhere near that connector it will fuck the whole charging connector and you have to get the mainboard replaced...so if you are using it outside and it starts to rain...pray
as i mentioned...retina display and touchpads are really the only differences and if you have ever used a mac OS it can be rewarding or an absolute pain in the ass
They do have some nice accessories such as touch pads and retina displays that are not that common on other third party pcs or laptops but they are not worth the extra money imo
you are paying up to a third or double more simply for a brand name
and you can find or build/customize your own pc to have similar specs
I have had numerous issues with my Imac such as burn in ...dodgy network cards
and have been on the wonderful apple merry go round of repair......when i want to take an item back to a shop to get repaired i don't want to ring up and make an appointment with some failed barista only to get there and find out the person you are supposed to see is on their late enema break with another person telling me i need to make another appointment while im carrying possibly the most awkward and expensive item around to simply get dropped off and repaired
its a piece of electronic equipment...i do not want to discuss my feelings about the matter when i drop it off or have some idiot try and sell me a useless extended warranty
There are reasonable use laws covering electronics in aus...if your item fucks up after 12 months don't try and tell me you cant fix it because i didn't pay extra money for apple care as im sure the ACCC would love to hear the story
As for the mac laptops.....those fucking mag power connectors....if you get one bit of water anywhere near that connector it will fuck the whole charging connector and you have to get the mainboard replaced...so if you are using it outside and it starts to rain...pray
as i mentioned...retina display and touchpads are really the only differences and if you have ever used a mac OS it can be rewarding or an absolute pain in the ass
Haha....I doubt this is a Mac specific problem.
So we've had quite a few updates recently from several large markets, I thought it'd be good to have all that info collected into one thread that we can maybe update later on.
Unless otherwise specified, numbers (M units) are as of the end of 2015.
"?" means the number is not known
"n/a" means the system is not officially available in that country
Total (UK excluded):
PS4 22.29
XB1 12.63
Official total:
PS4 35.9
XB1 ?
The PS4 is available in another 100 countries, the XB1 in another 25. Canada is probably the only really significant one on its own
Unless otherwise specified, numbers (M units) are as of the end of 2015.
"?" means the number is not known
"n/a" means the system is not officially available in that country
Total (UK excluded):
PS4 22.29
XB1 12.63
Official total:
PS4 35.9
XB1 ?
The PS4 is available in another 100 countries, the XB1 in another 25. Canada is probably the only really significant one on its own
I work in a computer retail/repair shop and by computer I mean we don't really touch mac's hardware and have to send people on an almost daily basis to guess where? Where they bought it, the apple store.
There's only one on our island and what do they all say? "Ugh I've been there, it's so expensive!" Sometimes we'll replace a screen/hdd/keyboard or something but we won't touch much else.
But like someone said, these people pay a premium out of their ass for a product and whine later on about other costs like peripherals and repairs of of which we again do some of at half the price.
One of my colleagues is adamant "macs are just better" on the basis he doesn't know how to use windows and I try to use the analogy "That'd be like me saying macs are shit because I don't know how to use them".
He also says Windows OS's are slow, but we've had dead slow mac's in the shop because he's good with them and can do software stuff, always usability issues the user doesn't know how to do. So much for that, all it tells me is you should just use what you like. One isn't going to last longer than the other, they'll all randomly break at random times from the day you buy it or even before it's left the shelf. DOA is a thing too.
An informed buyer would get whatever offers them the best performance and/or usability for their money. Most don't, most want to spend £250-350 on a windows laptop but all theirs "friends" say macs are so much better. Well you know, you didn't want to spend £700 on a laptop either did you? /grumble. That and your average user puts so much shit on their laptops it's untrue.
I'm pretty sure if I started logging all the repairs I did with complaints of being slow, most of it is end user related.
There's only one on our island and what do they all say? "Ugh I've been there, it's so expensive!" Sometimes we'll replace a screen/hdd/keyboard or something but we won't touch much else.
But like someone said, these people pay a premium out of their ass for a product and whine later on about other costs like peripherals and repairs of of which we again do some of at half the price.
One of my colleagues is adamant "macs are just better" on the basis he doesn't know how to use windows and I try to use the analogy "That'd be like me saying macs are shit because I don't know how to use them".
He also says Windows OS's are slow, but we've had dead slow mac's in the shop because he's good with them and can do software stuff, always usability issues the user doesn't know how to do. So much for that, all it tells me is you should just use what you like. One isn't going to last longer than the other, they'll all randomly break at random times from the day you buy it or even before it's left the shelf. DOA is a thing too.
An informed buyer would get whatever offers them the best performance and/or usability for their money. Most don't, most want to spend £250-350 on a windows laptop but all theirs "friends" say macs are so much better. Well you know, you didn't want to spend £700 on a laptop either did you? /grumble. That and your average user puts so much shit on their laptops it's untrue.
I'm pretty sure if I started logging all the repairs I did with complaints of being slow, most of it is end user related.
John Kowalski
Banned
Hmm, i hadn't thought about OS workflow. Apparently i'm stupider that i thought.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
How's the colour-matching workflow in Windows these days? Honest question. That was a pretty good reason to use a Mac even a few years ago.
Earthanoid
Member
I have a Macbook Pro, a Windows 7 ultrabook, a Windows 7 desktop and a Windows 8 tablet (plus a Chromebook but that's a different beast). IMO the usability advantage of the Mac is exaggerated, if you're even slightly computer savvy the two OS's are more or less equivalent. Mac's are only better for total novices because they make it hard to completely eff up your computer, which is surprisingly easy to do with a Windows machine. The two OS's are just arranged differently and the various functions are set up in different ways. That said I hate Windows 8 so if you're getting a new computer now and can't wait for Windows 10, a Macbook may be a better bet.
The big plus of the Macs is that they're really well built, but you can get well built Windows machines too. The MacBook and ultrabook (a Samsung) are both 3 years old and both working great. The problem is that for every well built Windows PC there are 5 crappy ones available. From the many anecdotes in this thread about crappy Windows machines, I wonder what brands they are and how much they cost? Because if we're talking about $500 Asus machines it's not a good comparison to a Macbook. But if you go for a Lenovo machine you will also get a PC just as solidly built as a Mac for a couple hundred dollars less than an equivalent Macbook. I've also had good luck with Samsungs. But you can't go cheap with a Windows PC and expect it to be built as well as a Mac.
The big plus of the Macs is that they're really well built, but you can get well built Windows machines too. The MacBook and ultrabook (a Samsung) are both 3 years old and both working great. The problem is that for every well built Windows PC there are 5 crappy ones available. From the many anecdotes in this thread about crappy Windows machines, I wonder what brands they are and how much they cost? Because if we're talking about $500 Asus machines it's not a good comparison to a Macbook. But if you go for a Lenovo machine you will also get a PC just as solidly built as a Mac for a couple hundred dollars less than an equivalent Macbook. I've also had good luck with Samsungs. But you can't go cheap with a Windows PC and expect it to be built as well as a Mac.
My late 2007 MacBook can't. Apple decided to stop supporting the integrated Intel GPU with 10.8, afair.
I'm guessing a Core 2 Duo machine could surely run Windows 10 just fine.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I recently started using a MBP for work after having been exclusively using Windows all my life, and while it is absolutely a very nice laptop I so far (just over a month in) don't find OSX as nice to use as Windows 7 (or 8 with modifications, I guess). Mainly I think multi-window stuff is much harder to do efficiently in OSX, switching quickly back and forth between windows, etc. Yes, I know about the trackpad gestures, but I use a mouse, and from Windows I'm used to using keyboard shortcuts to jump between stuff. Also, putting windows side-by-side is so painless in Windows. You just drag them to either side, or use Win+left/right. As far as I have found so far there's no way to easily do the same in OSX, and my window setup always feels like a mess. I know about the multiple desktops, but that's really not what I'm looking for here.
Which leads to another problem with internet browsers and more on my friends MacBook. Latest versions no longer supported. That made me a bit wary of Macs.
Whereas you can install the latest browsers on Vista for example to this day no problem.
Aquamarine
Member
huge markups because apple has convinced everyone their products are worth ridiculous premiums.
why do you think apple is so filthy rich?
why do you think apple is so filthy rich?
Just use an active corner for mission control or use the button for it... can't go faster
This is the biggest point imo. It acts as a discount when you finally upgrade. Ops mistake was buying Samsung/dell anything.
If you can....wait.
SteveWinwood
Member
I'm always skeptical of the claims for longer life spans on mac products due to personal anecdotal evidence. Tons of people in college had tons of issues with theirs through the years.
But if they seem to work for the people who use em more power to them.
But if they seem to work for the people who use em more power to them.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
The mess is my way of life. Can't imagine ever leaving it. Anyway, how many buttons does your mouse have? more than two? start mapping the extras to mission-control/Exposé in System Preferences. Have been doing this for a decade with a five-button mouse and it's very, very useful, much faster than gestures or hot-corners.
I can, thanks for the advice. When does Apple update their laptop line-up?
Overall though, is 'ease of use' really so dramatic anymore versus Windows?
It has been true for me but I believe that is mostly because the OS is more optimized than Windows (which is easier for them because they make limited hardware).
I still think Apple is way ahead in laptops (you can tell that is where their focus is these days) but I can't say the same with desktops. I loved Windows 7:
Oh, cool. Thanks!
I'm not really in the know about these kinds of things, but I've started to work on a Mac at work and really want to get one for myself. It's a chore to work on my Windows computer, now.
People pay money for a thing I don't like; they must be stupid.
Aquamarine
Member
when did i say i didn't like apple products?
they're great.
they just have ridiculous markups all for the sake of maximising profit margins.
And people who pay what you can't or wouldn't pay must be dumb.
Weapxn
Mikkelsexual
I was going through a PC laptop about every 1.5-2 years. I will have had my Macbook Pro for five years in about a week, and I've had next to no problems with it at all. I've upgraded the memory on it once a couple of years back, and I'll probably have to replace the battery this year. I'm hoping to stretch out its lifespan another two years before I replace it.
Aquamarine
Member
stop putting words in my mouth.
macs are luxury items. so what if they're overpriced? people overpay for luxuries all the time.
it's their money. you can't fault a guy for being happy with his purchase.
You said "they" were convinced, but presumably you see through it all. If you don't like the implication you shouldn't say it.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I don't think Mac's are better so much as most of the market provides me with cheap, junky PCs.
I want my next laptop to be a nice shiny device with good build quality... I don't want another disposable shitbox that looks gross and I don't care about. So I guess that's mac. But I'd happily buy a good PC laptop if there were more available.
I want my next laptop to be a nice shiny device with good build quality... I don't want another disposable shitbox that looks gross and I don't care about. So I guess that's mac. But I'd happily buy a good PC laptop if there were more available.
Astral/H3X
Member
Yup. Almost every time I hear of someone complaining that their laptop is slow, they almost invariably have dozens of "optimizer" "cleaner" adware and spyware dragging it down. I take $30, wipe the malware off, and they walk away happy to have their computer run like it did when they got it.
Also there are thousand dollar windows products. They are every bit as nice as Macs.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I'll look into mapping that to a mouse button, but it seems to me like it still won't let me jump back and forth between two different Chrome windows, for example, as quickly I can in Windows. This specific task - switching between windows/instances of the same program - is a pain in OSX (program to program is fine).
I also hate how OSX does everything it can to hide the actual file/folder structure from you. That might be nice for casual users, but as a software developer it is, again, a pain.
PseudoKirby
Banned
buy a comparable PC laptop and you would have it as long as well.
its wrong to compare the entry level to the premium.
entremet
Member
My reasons:
Vertical integration--Hardware, software, retail. Makes repairs and stuff a breeze.
Build quality
Trackpads are still unmatched anywhere I've tried. I actually use a Magic Track Pad for my desktop setup. Gestures are great in Yosemite.
Resale value
And the independent software community on Mac. The apps are polished to hell. Omnifocus, Scrivener, Fantastical, Pixelmatr and on and on.
Vertical integration--Hardware, software, retail. Makes repairs and stuff a breeze.
Build quality
Trackpads are still unmatched anywhere I've tried. I actually use a Magic Track Pad for my desktop setup. Gestures are great in Yosemite.
Resale value
And the independent software community on Mac. The apps are polished to hell. Omnifocus, Scrivener, Fantastical, Pixelmatr and on and on.
Autumn Wind
Member
Get yourself a Mac mini with 16 GB of RAM and a 256 GB SSD + Applecare for $1,199. Buy yourself a nice NEC monitor and you will be in business for the next three years minimum.
captainraincoat
Banned
I have a surface pro 3 and it is hands down the best laptop I have ever owned from a graphical editing point of view I sync it up with my tv monitor or simply link it with my 21cinteq and it performs flawlessly
Retina imac is good value if you can afford it. Probably the only Mac you can say that about.
Not a fan of the mini anymore.
Used to be a good entry computer but I think that the Air is a much better computer now for first time Mac users.
*shrug* I'm not an author or an accountant or anything, but pages and numbers have worked great for me writing papers back in college and now keeping track of budgets on projects.
iPhoto has been great for keeping track of and organizing photos. Obviously it's limited photo editing is crap. But the way it auto downloads and organizes every photo my phone and tablet takes is great.
Keynote though, is absolutely unparalleled for easily creating simple but great looking presentations. In a whole different league than PowerPoint.
I highly, highly recommend you look into the Apple refurb store. I was able to get a latest build 13" MBP Retina with an upgraded processor and a 512gb SSD for the same retail price as the entry-level 13".
The 15"ers are great, but I think the extra weight in the unit, as well as in the power adapter (the 13" has a smaller, lighter power adapter) make the 13" feel like much more of a comfortable laptop.
The 15"ers are great, but I think the extra weight in the unit, as well as in the power adapter (the 13" has a smaller, lighter power adapter) make the 13" feel like much more of a comfortable laptop.
I used to straight up reformat every 6 months, but it never seemed to help a lot. Is that a bad idea? It was always such a hassle to go through the Windows, MSE, and Java updates everytime you reformat that maybe I missed some steps and thats why it never seemed to run right again.
petethepanda
Member
Macs last for-frigging-ever. My mid-09 MBP, now with an SSD, is still going shockingly strong.
Why is Microsoft Surface so expensive? Because it's a first party device, that's why.
Now Mac only has first party laptops so there you go.
I myself am not impressed with them but that's because I'm an high end Windows user, most who are super impressed with Macbooks come from lower-end Windows PCs. If that's where you are coming from then something like the Macbook Pro is a fucking godsend.
Now Mac only has first party laptops so there you go.
I myself am not impressed with them but that's because I'm an high end Windows user, most who are super impressed with Macbooks come from lower-end Windows PCs. If that's where you are coming from then something like the Macbook Pro is a fucking godsend.
They're running a business and charging a fair margin for a product that can sell at their higher price points. Their competition gets by with single digit margins, you can bet your ass they aren't doing that to be nice to use consumers. They would kill to have Apple's margin, but when you're a hardware OEM fighting on hardware alone, it's hard to differentiate your experience over the other guy that will sell his laptop for $50 less than yours and provide largely the same experience.
Windows OEM's are on a race to the bottom profit wise, many of them are trying to get out of the business entirely. Apple's laptops are fairly priced for a business trying to actually make some decent money selling a product. Windows PC's are underpriced and are "trying to make it up on volume", which is and has always been a shitty long term strategy.
- Status