So your opinion on modern mac hardware is completely worthless, thanks for stopping by.
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I'm switiching from windows to mac,but.....Why are they so expensive!
- Thread starter Kleegamefan
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So your opinion on modern mac hardware is completely worthless, thanks for stopping by.
IISANDERII
Member
How else she gonna chat with her boyfriends?
TheLaughingStock
Member
Too expensive and slow compared to a nice desktop for my tastes at $2300. Wouldn't go past midrange i5 and whatever RAM config you'd need.
Freyjadour
Member
Apples to apples, MacBooks are priced fine.
Then someone posts some Lenovo that isn't comparable with "QED".
As far as OS X vs. Windows: install Parallels and enjoy life.
Then someone posts some Lenovo that isn't comparable with "QED".
As far as OS X vs. Windows: install Parallels and enjoy life.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Ew Mac airs, mofos slow to a crawl if you open up something like Sketch 3.
From what I can see, they don't offer the latest MBP in their refurb store, only the Oct13 refresh.
Edit: Never mind, it probably just varies?
An extremely strong brand associated with high quality. Loyal fan base that will spend the money.
I was required to get a MacBook Pro in college and I loved it. My friends back home poked fun at me for using a Mac but whatever
I went through two during my time in school because the first one had a beer spilled all over it (and it still works, minus a fried key or two).
When it came time to get a new computer I opted for a PC because I wanted something that was more gaming oriented and my money went further with a PC. Prior to getting the PC I was looking at a MacBook Pro Retina.
I was required to get a MacBook Pro in college and I loved it. My friends back home poked fun at me for using a Mac but whatever
I went through two during my time in school because the first one had a beer spilled all over it (and it still works, minus a fried key or two).When it came time to get a new computer I opted for a PC because I wanted something that was more gaming oriented and my money went further with a PC. Prior to getting the PC I was looking at a MacBook Pro Retina.
Inventory in the refurb store comes and goes. It normally takes 3 months for products to show up after their launch. Custom specs are hard to find but it is possible. I don't under stand why anyone would by an Apple product, besides the iPhone, any where else.
Junior Mint
Member
The first point is subjective but he's not wrong at all about the other two points. I owned the magic mouse for 2 days before I returned it. What a huge piece of shit. And it costs SEVENTY CANADIAN DOLLARS.
I have to agree.
It is not comfortable. Though the idea of a trackpad on the mouse is cool.
retina baby
And my windows laptop from 2005 still works fine. Long lifespan is not a trait unique to macs, just decently capable computers. If you bought a 2k windows computer from a decent manufacturer it would also likely be fine. Apple is not the only or most reliable brand.
There are other reasons that wouldn't be readily apparent, I've owned both a MBA and currently own a rMBP.
- Retina screen (natch)
- Cover glass on the screen (makes the screen more rigid)
- Longer key travel
- More robust trackpad click mechanism
- Better overall build quality (though not by much)
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
The Magic Mice are terrible. But the Magic Trackpad is amazing. I've said it numerous times but I can't even use a mouse anymore. Even for games. Yeah, I play 3D FPS and TPS games with my Magic Trackpad. Fuck, I'm almost afraid to get a gaming PC because if I do I'll have to either A) use a controller, which I can't for a lot of games or B) use a mouse which I cannot and never have been able to. Or C) try and find a third-party trackpad that works as well in games as my Magic Mouse via Parallels. (I don't even know how well the MTP works in Windows under BootCamp.) It's the reason I wish Steam would release its controller already. To me the two trackpad circles seem like they'd work just as well with the right tweaking.
The Magic Mouse and it's intergration with OSX is the best thing in the world. I love having different desktops that I can swipe to in an instant with 2 fingers. It also makes scrolling super smooth. Only downside is that it doesn't work well with games that use a scroll wheel a lot. Everything else about the MM is A+ though. Best mouse ever. I tried the Arc Mouse at a Microsoft store, and while the touch hardware is probably there, the software to match it isn't. Plus the mouse vibrates when you scroll which makes no sense.
Bought a Surface Pro 2 recently, but I think for desktop I'll be sticking with Mac. I would love a Mac Pro but man they are expensive. Maybe I'll try a hackintosh one day.
Bought a Surface Pro 2 recently, but I think for desktop I'll be sticking with Mac. I would love a Mac Pro but man they are expensive. Maybe I'll try a hackintosh one day.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
cmd-` is the keyboard shortcut for swapping windows within an application. cmd-~ goes the other way. I have application-window Exposé/Mission-Control on my middle mouse button.
You mean bundles? or ~/Library? or ...?
My five-button Microsoft mice haven't been a whole lot cheaper.
But fuck the Magic Mouse, what an comfortable piece of shit. The only comfortable mouse Apple has made since the hockey puck has been the single-button pro-mouse. Whoo-whoo.
Yes, the Magic Mouse is all kinds of terrible. The built in trackpad is genius, but as a mouse the thing just feels like shit. I've even tried the Magic Mouse Fix and that barely helps, as my main problem with it is how bad the pointer performance is.
Magic Trackpad is wizardry through.
Magic Trackpad is wizardry through.
Shogmaster
Member
A recent experience at a new job has confirmed to me that Mac fans are collectively delusional, and it requires a certain amount of cognitive dissonance in their part to maintain their collective delusion.
Yeah I know, you wouldn't expect me to say anything else, right? But in reality, I was fairly neutral about prospect of using Macs as long as it didn't cost me extra money. I have taught for years on Macs at Otis (local art college) and I can deal with it no problem. Or so I thought.
Then I got this new job at a major Hollywood studio in their licensing department. They told me I have to use a Mac. I said fine. for how much they are paying me, I will suffer through Linux if I had to.
So I show up at work first day and I find a 27" 2013 iMac on my desk. And it wasn't the base model either. It had 32GB of RAM and 1TB SSD in it. This config was probably $4000 easy. Out of habit though, having worked in many consultant positions, I always carry my Tablet PC to work the first day. Some jobs didn't provide a computer for several days even though it is onsite work, in the past.
It turns out that the computers at this place is used for 3 main things: Preparing high resolution multi page PDF files for the film-makers to do their final approval (I and others serve as first line of filter of all the licensee submissions), accessing online for web based database/submission system to catalog all the products being produced under license, and use a Wacom tablet to do draw overs when you need to clarify changes you are demanding to the licensees when necessary.
So let me get to why I think Mac users are collectively delusional: The majority of the creative crew for this job was assembled, along with a new creative director in the last 4 months prior to my arrival. Before that was just 2 people working on PCs with the web based app, which was written for Internet Explorer. This system goes back a few years it turns out, before Firefox really took off. Anyways, when the new creative director came in, she ordered all the gear for the new crew that was about to be hired. Being a "creative", she demanded Macs. Even though the job required interaction with Internet Explorer based web application, Macs were bought. Expensive Macs. $4000 per station. paired with $70 Wacom tablets. Yeesh....
So my first week with the Mac, I quickly find the workflow EXCRUCIATING. I had Safari, Firefox, and Chrome preloaded in my iMac. ALL OF THEM crashed every third or so links I clicked on their web based submission system. My coworkers were all like "Yep, that's 'X (name of the web based system which will remain anonymous in this post)' for ya. It is just GARBAGE. It's terrible. But what can we do? We have to use it. You'll get use to it." they said. So I grinned and soldiered on. But one of the consultants that's been there for years was on a PC. She's the one who later told me that the web system was written for IE. And that's why she insisted on keeping her PC when the new director came in, and that's why she doesn't complain like others about 'X' because it doesn't crash on her all the time. Amazing...
And what about dealing with PDF files? You'd think 27" iMac with 32GB of RAM super fast SSD and 2560x1440 resolution would be more than up to the task right? Well no. because they only had Adobe Acrobat Pro for me to process the PDF files. I don't know how many of you have to deal with this vile POS program, but it is a work of the devil. Simple things like mark ups and text annotation is a fucking pain in the ass since something basic like text size options are limited to certain number, so it you have a really high res image, you will make tiny ass text mark ups that you have to zoom way the hell in just to read! Fucking INSANE. And draw overs on those files? Fucking hell, just to do a simple draw over, you have to disassemble the stupid PDF by using Photoshop to import images one page at a time, use a shitty $70 Intuos Basic tablet to mark over it like it's 1995 by staring away from your hand while you draw, then use Acrobat again to assemble all the pages back into a single binder. That's like 5 steps just to draw over a single image. I couldn't bear the pace. Even though I'm a consultant paid by the hour, the shitty workflow was killing me, ESPECIALLY since I knew I had PDF Annotator installed in my Tablet PC that I could do the draw over in ONE SINGLE STEP by DRAWING ON THE SCREEN on my Tablet PC.
So I decided to use the iMac to only check email and access the local network, and use my Tablet PC to do the web system access and PDF file preparation. And I breezed along on all draw overs. Others looked at me like I was performing some black magic and started to push all the draw overs on my inbox (which was fine with me since I enjoy that more than slogging through a database).
After couple of week of this, I just flat out demanded a PC to replace my iMac when they brought in another consultant, and she needed a Mac. I gladly have up my $4000 iMac and requested any old PC they had on hand so I can run Internet Explorer and DPF Annotator. Been much happier since.
So that's my story. For $4000, they could have equipped all the stations with a decent PC and a 22" Cintiq with a second high resolution monitor to do the work much more efficiency and much less pain. But these people NEED their fucking Macs, no matter how painful it makes their workflow. Now THAT'S definition of delusional, and cognitive dissonance if there ever was one.
Yeah I know, you wouldn't expect me to say anything else, right? But in reality, I was fairly neutral about prospect of using Macs as long as it didn't cost me extra money. I have taught for years on Macs at Otis (local art college) and I can deal with it no problem. Or so I thought.
Then I got this new job at a major Hollywood studio in their licensing department. They told me I have to use a Mac. I said fine. for how much they are paying me, I will suffer through Linux if I had to.
So I show up at work first day and I find a 27" 2013 iMac on my desk. And it wasn't the base model either. It had 32GB of RAM and 1TB SSD in it. This config was probably $4000 easy. Out of habit though, having worked in many consultant positions, I always carry my Tablet PC to work the first day. Some jobs didn't provide a computer for several days even though it is onsite work, in the past.
It turns out that the computers at this place is used for 3 main things: Preparing high resolution multi page PDF files for the film-makers to do their final approval (I and others serve as first line of filter of all the licensee submissions), accessing online for web based database/submission system to catalog all the products being produced under license, and use a Wacom tablet to do draw overs when you need to clarify changes you are demanding to the licensees when necessary.
So let me get to why I think Mac users are collectively delusional: The majority of the creative crew for this job was assembled, along with a new creative director in the last 4 months prior to my arrival. Before that was just 2 people working on PCs with the web based app, which was written for Internet Explorer. This system goes back a few years it turns out, before Firefox really took off. Anyways, when the new creative director came in, she ordered all the gear for the new crew that was about to be hired. Being a "creative", she demanded Macs. Even though the job required interaction with Internet Explorer based web application, Macs were bought. Expensive Macs. $4000 per station. paired with $70 Wacom tablets. Yeesh....
So my first week with the Mac, I quickly find the workflow EXCRUCIATING. I had Safari, Firefox, and Chrome preloaded in my iMac. ALL OF THEM crashed every third or so links I clicked on their web based submission system. My coworkers were all like "Yep, that's 'X (name of the web based system which will remain anonymous in this post)' for ya. It is just GARBAGE. It's terrible. But what can we do? We have to use it. You'll get use to it." they said. So I grinned and soldiered on. But one of the consultants that's been there for years was on a PC. She's the one who later told me that the web system was written for IE. And that's why she insisted on keeping her PC when the new director came in, and that's why she doesn't complain like others about 'X' because it doesn't crash on her all the time. Amazing...
And what about dealing with PDF files? You'd think 27" iMac with 32GB of RAM super fast SSD and 2560x1440 resolution would be more than up to the task right? Well no. because they only had Adobe Acrobat Pro for me to process the PDF files. I don't know how many of you have to deal with this vile POS program, but it is a work of the devil. Simple things like mark ups and text annotation is a fucking pain in the ass since something basic like text size options are limited to certain number, so it you have a really high res image, you will make tiny ass text mark ups that you have to zoom way the hell in just to read! Fucking INSANE. And draw overs on those files? Fucking hell, just to do a simple draw over, you have to disassemble the stupid PDF by using Photoshop to import images one page at a time, use a shitty $70 Intuos Basic tablet to mark over it like it's 1995 by staring away from your hand while you draw, then use Acrobat again to assemble all the pages back into a single binder. That's like 5 steps just to draw over a single image. I couldn't bear the pace. Even though I'm a consultant paid by the hour, the shitty workflow was killing me, ESPECIALLY since I knew I had PDF Annotator installed in my Tablet PC that I could do the draw over in ONE SINGLE STEP by DRAWING ON THE SCREEN on my Tablet PC.
So I decided to use the iMac to only check email and access the local network, and use my Tablet PC to do the web system access and PDF file preparation. And I breezed along on all draw overs. Others looked at me like I was performing some black magic and started to push all the draw overs on my inbox (which was fine with me since I enjoy that more than slogging through a database).
After couple of week of this, I just flat out demanded a PC to replace my iMac when they brought in another consultant, and she needed a Mac. I gladly have up my $4000 iMac and requested any old PC they had on hand so I can run Internet Explorer and DPF Annotator. Been much happier since.
So that's my story. For $4000, they could have equipped all the stations with a decent PC and a 22" Cintiq with a second high resolution monitor to do the work much more efficiency and much less pain. But these people NEED their fucking Macs, no matter how painful it makes their workflow. Now THAT'S definition of delusional, and cognitive dissonance if there ever was one.
Demigod Mac
Member
Got a late 2008 Macbook Pro. Upgraded it to 8GB RAM, SSD drive, OS X Yosemite and it's still going on strong. Aside from a minor surface bruise from an impact years ago, it looks as good as it did the day I got it and I still feel no urge to upgrade despite its age. Can any PC laptop come even remotely close?
Your entire post has nothing to do with Macs and is in fact actually complaining about 1) a web app that is built to only run properly on IE, which does sound like an absolutely awful app to be using in 2014. 2) Adobe acrobat which definitely blows, plus you not knowing that you can mark up pdfs in the built in Mac app Preview.
So yes, everyone who likes Macs is delusional because they don't use outdated web apps and actually know how to use the preinstalled software on their system. Good lord.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The fact that this web-based app was designed for IE tells me that this web app developer doesn't understand their users. Not if it's designers. Internet Explorer... really? That's not a Mac vs PC issue. No one should target IE exclusively unless their primary users are elderly people who got a browser with their Acer laptop. Designers on either platform would abhor a focus on IE to the exclusion of Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari... whatever.
While I can see how the dream of Mac use was at complete odds with the logical workflow of this shitty IE-based web app, I can completely understand why designers wanted to use Macs. It's the same reason they want to use nice paper for their business card. Or a nice frame for their printed designs. They wanted a beautiful display and "frame" for their creative designs, something that showcased it, and promoted their creative juices.
I could scrawl my designs onto a napkin or some generic printer paper. There's a reason why people seek out sketchbooks with quality paper stock and a nice pencil. While I know specific PCs can do this with the right build and quality, can you at least understand why a design firm would seek out a pleasant digital environment in order to craft nice work? Using Apple doesn't mean they're "delusional"... It means they're looking for a clean and well-designed digital environment which will hopefully facilitate clean and well-designed creations of their own. The fact that this particular app didn't like a Macintosh in ~2013-14 is honestly weird and says more about that shit app than their desire to use Macs.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Pretty much.
Shogmaster
Member
The app was made years before things like Firefox took a big chunk of the browser marketshare, so maybe you should all learn to read.
Also, the director knew what was required of her incoming crew. She could have hired creative crew from manufacturing side (like me) that would be familiar with PCs. Since the most demanding approvals are 3D products and not print and apparel stuff, that would have been the right move, not hire a bunch of Mac only technophobes that think draiwing on the screen is some black magic, just so that she can buy a bunch of fucking Macs when she knew going in that the app was written on IE.
Also, the director knew what was required of her incoming crew. She could have hired creative crew from manufacturing side (like me) that would be familiar with PCs. Since the most demanding approvals are 3D products and not print and apparel stuff, that would have been the right move, not hire a bunch of Mac only technophobes that think draiwing on the screen is some black magic, just so that she can buy a bunch of fucking Macs when she knew going in that the app was written on IE.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It sounds like a total clash of Mac idealism vs PC needs. I'm sure it's a case of mismanagement, in terms of getting the job done.
But really, it's wierd that it doesn't work on Macs. And everyone involved would have been happier if it worked on Mac. This doesn't make Mac bad or Mac users stupid. That app sounds like a piece of shit, though.
Childish generalizations of Mac users: check
Every opportunity taken to condescend toward those who prefer Macs: check
Anyone have bingo yet?
Shogmaster
Member
DP
Shogmaster
Member
The app works fine on what it was written for and doesn't work well on stuff that didn't exist when it was written, so it's a POS? Nice logic. The worst thing you can say about the app is that it's old but it still works fine. It's not the app's fault that they are too cheap to properly port it over to other browsers.
Also, I didn't call Mac user stupid. I called them delusional. There is a difference.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yes. A browser app that doesn't work on more than the IE browser does sound like a POS. Maybe it makes sense in the year 2000? Even then.. Nope.
Shogmaster
Member
You I will make a special exception for. You are not just delusional but also stupid.
See, this proves all people who prefer PCs are dicks. Also, all of them generalize.
Shogmaster
Member
Hey, I didn't force him to insist on such giant lapse in logic. That's on him.
So this is a condemnation of 2 apps (one of which also blows on Windows and whose desired functioned actually exists in a built in app for OS X), and 1 idiot who didn't know what tools would be required for their team because they're dependent on old software.
This still has nothing to do with any problem with OS X or Macs, and it's crazy to me that you'd use this very specific example to jump to a conclusion about everyone who enjoys using OS X. I think you have your biases and are wearing them on your sleeve and are using this one very narrow and specific experience to justify your entire prechosen biased mindset.
Shogmaster
Member
Enjoying OSX and Macs is not being delusional. Insisting OSX and Macs are superior in every way to Windows and PCs is.
I hate how Apple just does their own thing and does not follow standards. I use a Linux workstation at work, I have a Windows gaming PC at home and a MBP. Guess which one has the keyboard shortcuts completely different from the other two?
I also hate the fact that they charge really expensive prices for their accessors.
I also hate the fact that they charge really expensive prices for their accessors.
George Costanza
Banned
Apple makes their money on the hardware. Microsoft makes their money from license fees. You also get the best customer service and product support in the industry. If you do have an issue you can just take it in to the Apple store. In over 20 years I've only had a problem once with their products. I got a new one without any questions.
Expensive? No, I don't think so. I find them reasonably priced, you get what you pay for. Quality.
Expensive? No, I don't think so. I find them reasonably priced, you get what you pay for. Quality.
What part of your story includes people who claim that?
Shogmaster
Member
Hello? The director, duh?
Where? Use your words.
Shogmaster
Member
She insisted on buying Macs when she knew IE was needed? I don't know how literal you need this to be.
And this is the same as claiming Macs are superior to PCs in every way? Uh...why would you conclude that? And how can you accuse someone else of a lapse in logic and then proceed to reason this way?
Shogmaster
Member
I work with the women. I know. Believe me.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
This is an age of responsive design and browser/platform agnosticism....
I can't fathom the defense of a PC/IE-only webapp. I can't fathom the ridicule of people who think it's odd in today's age to expect cross-platform compatibility with a web app. It is wierd that you can't use a webapp on another browser. Put me in with your co-workers who thought they could use a Mac just fine, which is how it should be. I get why you're at odds with a lot of people, defending this nonsense.
Shogmaster
Member
Glad that you've always lived in 2014, even back in 2005 or whatever. That's simply awesome, futureman. Do me a favor and let me know the lotto numbers for tomorrow.
Is that the "women" you condescendingly refered to as a "creative"? Which would, obviously, lead anyone to conclude such a person is led by their desire to do creative things and appear creative, and would choose a Mac specifically for this purpose? And not because it's better at everything?
This is an exercise in backfilling a conclusion. The reasons meander and wobble because they're secondary to the preconceived conclusion. You shot the arrow and we're watching you paint the bullseye around it, and you're doing a bad job.
Shogmaster
Member
If you want me to ponder why Macs have such grip on technophobic creative type, that's a whole another discussion. I'm simply conveying to you why she bought these iMacs for the crew. And not just any iMacs, top of the line iMacs with maximum specs. She is the type that just blindly orders the most expensive as the best tool for the job, regardless of the purpose of the job. And for her, it's Apple or nothing. Phone, tablets, computers, fruit, etc..
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I developed webpages in the 90s and we were targeting multiple browsers way back then.
You're using a really bad business backend webapp - bad when it was new, because there was never a point where targeting IE only was smart- as an excuse for why Mac users are dumb.
If the company should have adapted to this POS to get their job done.. That's one thing. But it sucked, and the company wasn't silly for expecting it to work on Mac. Like most webapps work on Mac.
I guess there's no use here.
I keep reading that again, and again, and again.
I have my windows laptop since 2008, and I use it every single day. Works fine. I'm incredibly lucky or what??
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