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[Brakke]

This story is pretty complicated so bear with me. In short, there's a landfill in St Louis that definitely contains *some* radioactive waste that was dumped illegally. The company that now owns the land opted to contain it on-site instead of removing it. It's actually super unclear exactly how severe the radioactive contamination is. For sure, the "containment" is totally insufficient. So that's bad alone.

Also, there's another landfill nearby that is perpetually on fire underground. The burning landfill is a problem in its own right. Further complicating the issue, the fire may be moving toward the landfill with the nuclear waste.

Couple articles to start with: St. Louis burning: A ticking time bomb beneath the city? & State consultant says Bridgeton Landfill fire spreading north

Excerpts from the Al Jazeera piece:

Chapman lives near the West Lake Landfill, a site located in the heart of metropolitan St. Louis that increasingly appears to have a much more ominous past than many thought. Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services data from 2014 has also shown increased rates of rare cancers near the site.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission recommended the waste be removed in 1988, but the company that now owns the land has — with EPA approval — opted for containment as opposed to removal, maintaining that the waste there is low-level when it comes to radioactivity, and not a threat to public health.

But it may not be that simple. Government documents unearthed by residents suggest that the extent of the contamination may be far worse — perhaps at an unprecedented level, some experts say. Following a largely broken or incomplete paper trail, residents and activists have found evidence that there may be soil laced with uranium, thorium and radium buried there.

And there is another problem: the fire. It smolders underneath an adjacent landfill, burning at some 300 degrees and slowly moving toward where the waste is thought to be.

Nobody is quite sure what will happen if the two meet, but locals and the county are preparing for the worst: a nuclear emergency in the middle of St. Louis.

The landfill has no lining between it and the groundwater, nor is the top covered. The landfill is in the floodplain of the Missouri River, and several tornadoes have come very close to the site in recent years.

All that separates the landfill from the public street is a chain-linked fence marked with signs. Some residents sarcastically call it the “magical fence” that is meant to keep them safe.

The zip codes near West Lake were part of the 2014 Missouri Department of Health study that found statistically significant higher rates of cancer in North County. Specifically, there was a higher rate of childhood brain cancer in the two zip codes near the landfill. Statistically, there should have only been two or three cases. The study found seven.

Within a few miles of the landfill are thousands of residents, an industrial area, schools and a hospital. In 2013, Peter Anderson, executive director of the nonprofit Center for a Competitive Waste Industry, likened the potential release of radioactive particles into St. Louis’ air as a “dirty bomb” that could impact a 10-mile radius of the landfill. Residential areas begin less than half a mile from the site. Nearly 3 million people live in the greater St. Louis metropolitan area.

On the fire at the non-nuclear landfill:

One thing is for certain: around 2012, residents who lived near the landfill started noticing a potent odor, likely the product of the fire burning through the landfill. [...]

However, in March, the Missouri Department of Natural Resources notified Republic Services that it had violated state law regarding the management of the Bridgeton Landfill, writing that “analysis continued to show that emissions of [sulfur dioxide] exceeded levels as considered in the landfill’s permits.” Later that month, the department, in another letter, said that sulfur dioxide emissions exceeded the annual 250 tons allowed under Republic Service’s permits.

Short-term exposure to sulfur dioxide, according to the EPA, is linked to respiratory illness, bronchoconstriction and asthma.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Wait, St. Louis has had a landfill fire since 2012?

What the fuck?

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Wait, St. Louis has had a landfill fire since 2012?

What the fuck?

I'm from Missouri and I can ensure you that St. Louis does NOT have its shit together. Not even close. It's too busy being the biggest ghetto in the U.S.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Pathetic that the company wasn't forced to move the material.

Whoever is in control of the landfill should be sued into oblivion by the feds.

 

[GloriousBagel]

How is the government not stepping in?!?

 

[Amentallica]

How is the government not stepping in?!?

Sad truth is that a lot of government action takes place after an incident has occurred. We are considerably more reactive than proactive.

 

[commedieu]

How is the government not stepping in?!?

Well, they were probably lobbied to do it in the first place.. they should have stepped in then, but you know.. gotta keep those job creators happy. At the price of our land.

 

[Starviper]

That is pretty damn terrifying. Hoping the government can step in and handle the situation, having a radioactive landfill in a city is beyond comprehension. Who the fuck allowed that to happen in the first place?

 

[commedieu]

That is pretty damn terrifying. Hoping the government can step in and handle the situation, having a radioactive landfill in a city is beyond comprehension. Who the fuck allowed that to happen in the first place?

http://www.stlradwastelegacy.com/we...roup-to-lobby-to-keep-nuclear-waste-in-place/

Republic Services, the company that owns the radioactive West Lake Landfill in Bridgeton, has launched a lobbying group that is pushing to keep the waste buried instead of hauling it to a nuclear dump site in the western U.S.

The goal of the Coalition to Keep Us Safe is to raise support among legislators and the public for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s 2008 decision to place a rock, clay and soil cap over the West Lake Landfill. The EPA is re-evaluating that plan because of public opposition and concerns about an underground fire at the adjacent Bridgeton Landfill that has smoldered for more than three years. The agency’s most recent research shows the cap would not be adequate to contain toxic fumes if the smoldering reaches West Lake Landfill.

 

[cirrhosis]

St. Louis sounds like a swell place

 

[Earthstrike]

Well, they were probably lobbied to do it in the first place.. they should have stepped in then, but you know.. gotta keep those job creators happy. At the price of our land.

Let's not forget that the government forcing them to do something would be big government! and it would also make the landfill inefficient!

 

[Amentallica]

Does anyone know if we deposit radioactive material into space as a way of disposing of it?

 

[Brakke]

How is the government not stepping in?!?

They're not *not* stepping in... "The Missouri Attorney General has brought a lawsuit against Republic Services for the odor [at the burning landfill]."

Missouri Attorney General is also trying to work with the EPA on the radioactive site: http://fox2now.com/2014/04/29/atty-...er-radioactive-material-at-westlake-landfill/

We might characterize these efforts as so far insufficient though...

 

[bennywhatever]

Ahhhhh Republic Services. I'm so glad I cancelled my trash service with them. They were unprofessional and unfun to deal with. I'm hardly surprised they had a part in this.

I love in southwestern Indiana where two major rivers run close, and I'm sure if something happened, we would be impacted in some way. It could affect a good portion of the midwest. That's a worst case scenario, of course, but eh, could happen.

 

[cirrhosis]

Does anyone know if we deposit radioactive material into space as a way of disposing of it?

I'm sure there's lots of radioactive material in orbit from satellites and debris. Boosting it out of orbit is another story and probably not economically feasible.

Maybe the EM drive would be useful in getting it out.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Does anyone know if we deposit radioactive material into space as a way of disposing of it?

No. Imagine if there were a failure getting it up into space. That would be catastrophic.

 

[UraMallas]

I thought underground fires lasting years and even decades were pretty common. Especially in coal mining communites. Am I wrong there? I thought I remember an article about an underground fire they has been going for 60 or more years somewhere outhe East.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Seriously though, the nuclear stuff is... whatever. It sounds bad, but properly contained it's not that big an issue.

The 3-YEAR LANDFILL FIRE is the bigger "holy shit, how did this happen" moment to me.

Does anyone know if we deposit radioactive material into space as a way of disposing of it?

Not economically feasible. Nuclear waste is heavy, and getting it out into deep space (i.e. far enough out that it won't eventually crash back to earth) would cost a ton.

 

[cirrhosis]

I thought underground fires lasting years and even decades we're pretty common. Especially in college mining communites. Am I wrong there? I thought I remember an article about an underground fire they has been going for 60 or more years somewhere outhe East.

Yeah, Centralia, but that's a coal fire.

 

[Brakke]

I thought underground fires lasting years and even decades we're pretty common. Especially in college mining communites. Am I wrong there? I thought I remember an article about an underground fire they has been going for 60 or more years somewhere outhe East.

Yeah. The *existence* of the fire isn't a problem on it's own, the trouble here is that this one is being poorly managed.

Seriously though, the nuclear stuff is... whatever. It sounds bad, but properly contained it's not that big an issue.

The 3-YEAR LANDFILL FIRE is the bigger "holy shit, how did this happen" moment to me.

It isn't properly contained...

"All that separates the landfill from the public street is a chain-linked fence marked with signs. Some residents sarcastically call it the “magical fence” that is meant to keep them safe."

"The zip codes near West Lake were part of the 2014 Missouri Department of Health study that found statistically significant higher rates of cancer in North County. Specifically, there was a higher rate of childhood brain cancer in the two zip codes near the landfill. Statistically, there should have only been two or three cases. The study found seven."

 

[wenis]

Seriously though, the nuclear stuff is... whatever. It sounds bad, but properly contained it's not that big an issue.

The 3-YEAR LANDFILL FIRE is the bigger "holy shit, how did this happen" moment to me.

I think the same way the town that inspired Silent Hill did.

Centralia Mine Fire

 

[Poodlestrike]

Yeah. The *existence* of the fire isn't a problem on it's own, the trouble here is that this one is being poorly managed.



It isn't properly contained...

"All that separates the landfill from the public street is a chain-linked fence marked with signs. Some residents sarcastically call it the “magical fence” that is meant to keep them safe."

"The zip codes near West Lake were part of the 2014 Missouri Department of Health study that found statistically significant higher rates of cancer in North County. Specifically, there was a higher rate of childhood brain cancer in the two zip codes near the landfill. Statistically, there should have only been two or three cases. The study found seven."

No, I know that, I'm just referring to the calls of "they need to move it." They need to properly contain it, is what they have to do.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

World's most powerful and richest country can't even put out a landfill fire that been blazing for nigh on three years.

I just don't even know any more...

I just don't.

 

[Oppo]

World's most powerful and richest country can't even put out a landfill fire that been blazing for nigh on three years.

I just don't even know any more...

I just don't.

Not cant.

Won't.

Which makes it even worse.

 

[norm9]

I googled a map of dump sites in America. I'm surprised neither North or South Dakota has a nuclear dump site and most states have one or two.

 

[Earthstrike]

World's most powerful and richest country can't even put out a landfill fire that been blazing for nigh on three years.

I just don't even know any more...

I just don't.

It's like a real life example of the springfield tire yard fire.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I spent six months in St. Louis on a gap year, turns out I lived four miles away from that landfill and never realised.

 

[Beaulieu]

this is not news. article from 2013:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/st-louis-is-burning-20130510

if nothing was done (or nothing hapenned) in the last 2 years, I don't think it will change soon.

 

[Nivash]

While this obviously isn't good the article is overstating the danger and calling it a "dirty bomb" is hyperbole (even though dirty bombs aren't as bad as people thing anyway). And it's not a "nuclear emergency". It's a pollution issue. And one I seriously doubt would even be on the level of the particulate emissions from St. Louis' vehicles in terms of cancer. It might not even compete with the 3 year long garbage fire itself which is apparently releasing sulfur dioxide,a substance that's already causing tens of thousands of premature deaths in the United States. Yearly.

That study confirming 7 cancer cases instead of the observed 2-3 doesn't really prove anything either. The sample size is way too small, I seriously doubt they actually got a statistically significant result no matter what the article says. At most that could lead to a more extensive study, a monitoring program or a closer look at whether or not the landfill is actually leaking radiation. But on its own it's not enough.

 

[LumpOfCole]

I'm from Missouri and I can ensure you that St. Louis does NOT have its shit together. Not even close. It's too busy being the biggest ghetto in the U.S.

Everyone here should watch The Pruitt-Igoe Myth to basically realize why St Louis just fell apart. It was doomed as soon as population growth turned around 50 years ago.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Not quite as horrifying as times beach, right down the road a few miles. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri


Edit, see also,sauget right across the river.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Everyone here should watch The Pruitt-Igoe Myth to basically realize why St Louis just fell apart. It was doomed as soon as population growth turned around 50 years ago.

Does this deal at all with the issues with East St Louis? I've heard nothing but horror stories about that place, albeit horror stories steeped in not so subtle racism.

 

[FStop7]

Wait, St. Louis has had a landfill fire since 2012?

What the fuck?

Come the fuck on. Don't be ridiculous.

It's been burning since 2010.

 

[Horsemama1956]

I really doubt it's the only landfill with these types of materials illegally dumped.

 

[Slayven]

World's most powerful and richest country can't even put out a landfill fire that been blazing for nigh on three years.

I just don't even know any more...

I just don't.

There are actually a bunch of underground fires in the states

 

[Toxi]

I think the same way the town that inspired Silent Hill did.

Centralia Mine Fire

in May 1962, the Centralia Borough Council hired five members of the volunteer fire company to clean up the town landfill, located in an abandoned strip-mine pit next to the Odd Fellows Cemetery. This had been done prior to Memorial Day in previous years, when the landfill was in a different location. On May 27, 1962, the firefighters, as they had in the past, set the dump on fire and let it burn for some time. Unlike in previous years, however, the fire was not fully extinguished. An unsealed opening in the pit allowed the fire to enter the labyrinth of abandoned coal mines beneath Centralia.

We can be a really stupid country.

 

[Laekon]

It's amazing how many sites like this exist in the US. I'm amazed at how few people know of a nuclear reactor melt down right above the San Fernando Valley in LA country. It was hidden from 1959 to the late 70's. The site also has a bunch of other chemical hazards. Unlike most toxic sites in the country its right next to probably the wealthiest part of the Valley(Bell Canyon) instead of the poorest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Susana_Field_Laboratory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_Reactor_Experiment

 

[Javaman]

I thought underground fires lasting years and even decades were pretty common. Especially in coal mining communites. Am I wrong there? I thought I remember an article about an underground fire they has been going for 60 or more years somewhere outhe East.

You might be thinking of the Centralia mine fire,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire

The Centralia mine fire is a coal seam fire that has been burning underneath the borough of Centralia, Pennsylvania, United States since at least May 27, 1962. The cause of the fire is suspected to be from a trash burning that hit a coal strip in a cave.

The fire burns in underground coal mines at depths of up to 300 feet over an eight-mile stretch of 3,700 acres.[1] As of 2015, the fire continues to burn. At its current rate, it could burn for over 250 more years.[2]

The blaze has resulted in most of the town being abandoned. Population dwindled from 2,761 in 1890 to only 7 in 2013, and most of the buildings have been leveled.

Also crazy is that the coal mine fires in China produce more CO2 than all the cars in the US combined.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Alright, it's time to pack my bags

 

[uncredited male]

 

[super-famicom]

Also, there's another landfill nearby that is perpetually on fire underground.

Whaaaat.

 

[terrisus]

Also, there's another landfill nearby that is perpetually on fire underground.

That's the real story here for me >.>

 

[Brakke]

Does this deal at all with the issues with East St Louis? I've heard nothing but horror stories about that place, albeit horror stories steeped in not so subtle racism.

The East St Louis movie is already made it's Escape From New York

 

[CrocMother]

We can be a really stupid species.

fixed

 

[Coins]

Not quite as horrifying as times beach, right down the road a few miles. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri


Edit, see also,sauget right across the river.

Hey leave Sauget alone.

 

[Elfforkusu]

How is the government not stepping in?!?

They have, kind of. It's an EPA Superfund site.

The issues are:
1. there's a massive underground fire in an adjacent landfill
2. it's legit, high-level nuclear waste. Who's going to take it?
3. this is upstream of most of the city! Isn't that awesome?

It's expensive (and somewhat impractical, though they should man up and do it) to put out the fire, which is why heels have been dragging on doing anything. The state government is like "lol, wtf, fix it" to Republic Services, who insist everything is fine, nothing to see here, move along.

Incidentally, here's a map of similarly horrifying environmental catastrophes that the EPA has the privilege of watching over!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund

 

[TheRedSnifit]

While this obviously isn't good the article is overstating the danger and calling it a "dirty bomb" is hyperbole (even though dirty bombs aren't as bad as people thing anyway). And it's not a "nuclear emergency". It's a pollution issue. And one I seriously doubt would even be on the level of the particulate emissions from St. Louis' vehicles in terms of cancer. It might not even compete with the 3 year long garbage fire itself which is apparently releasing sulfur dioxide,a substance that's already causing tens of thousands of premature deaths in the United States. Yearly.

That study confirming 7 cancer cases instead of the observed 2-3 doesn't really prove anything either. The sample size is way too small, I seriously doubt they actually got a statistically significant result no matter what the article says. At most that could lead to a more extensive study, a monitoring program or a closer look at whether or not the landfill is actually leaking radiation. But on its own it's not enough.

Pretty much. This is basically another example of people overreacting to anything associated with the phrase "radioactive", and is another reason why we have no national nuclear repository, and why instead of expanding our nuclear power infrastructure we continue to rely heavily on traditional sources that kill tens of thousand of people every year.

 

[Brakke]

Pretty much. This is basically another example of people overreacting to anything associated with the phrase "radioactive", and is another reason why we have no national nuclear repository, and why instead of expanding our nuclear power infrastructure we continue to rely heavily on traditional sources that kill tens of thousand of people every year.

How is it an overreaction. If you know the actual danger you should probably tell the EPA because they don't know. The extent of the reaction here is the state Attorney General wrote a letter to the EPA and some people have put up some signs and tried to sift through old paperwork.

Also you said "pretty much" to a dude who pulled "the sample size isn't big enough" out of his ass, he has no idea what the sample size was.

 

[johnny956]

St. Louis has all kinds of problems like these from World War II. We have substantially higher cancer rates but they muddy the numbers by including the numbers in a larger region. Just outside of St. Louis is Weldon springs which processed uranium or something. Like of newborns died out there.


http://america.aljazeera.com/multimedia/2015/4/st-louis-burning-what-killed-the-babies-near-weldon-spring.html

 

[starwarsfan541]

They have, kind of. It's an EPA Superfund site.

The issues are:
1. there's a massive underground fire in an adjacent landfill
2. it's legit, high-level nuclear waste. Who's going to take it?
3. this is upstream of most of the city! Isn't that awesome?

It's expensive (and somewhat impractical, though they should man up and do it) to put out the fire, which is why heels have been dragging on doing anything. The state government is like "lol, wtf, fix it" to Republic Services, who insist everything is fine, nothing to see here, move along.

Incidentally, here's a map of similarly horrifying environmental catastrophes that the EPA has the privilege of watching over!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund

Oh fuck, one of those is in my neghboring city. Then again I am not suprised I always heard how bad that plant was.... (plus it always leaks into the neghboring creek according to what I hear)