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[akira__]

This is Project Latitude in action.


Latitude refers to the scope and freedom of action. As such, the finance team at Xbox has prevailed, allowing each team the freedom to increase their revenue as they see fit. This means those teams no longer need to follow that small management team at the top that we all know and love


This is all about making the numbers work.

 

[Ozriel]

Yeah Steam and other consoles such as PS5 and Switch are outside their ecosystem. Gamepass was introduced to us last generation on the Xbox one. It was a flop as it didn't drive console growth, hence they decided to release their 1st party games on PC day one during the Xbox Series generation.

You're wrong, though. They’ve been releasing their games on PC before GamePass kicked off, and they’ve been on Steam since 2019, well before the Series generation kicked off.

In the Xbox One generation, GamePass growth was very rapid. Saying it ‘flopped’ when it grew rapidly is a fairy tale.

A price increase will most certainly lead to a drop in subscribers. That's just logic and common sense. Even before the price drop, Gamepass growth has stalled. Its not looking good for Gamepass. And the problem with MS Gamepass subscribers is that they are trained to wait for games instead of buying them. So MS had no option but to beg Sony to put their games on the PS5 and pay that 30% cut to finance the console wars against MS.

So if GamePass subscribers off, they become paying customers. Which means they’ll buy the game at $70.

‘Xbox gamers are trained not to buy games’ is an inane fable since we KNOW for sure that third party AAA games are purchased at a rate commensurate with the install base. Madden, NBA 2k, Previous COD games, FIFA games etc. They bought these games instead of ‘waiting for them’.

I disagree if the game flops on Xbox or Steam then it will also flop on PS5 or Switch. Some certain audiences are on other platforms by way of cultivating those audiences. For example, Capcom games may flop on Xbox and sell decent on Steam, but the bulk of those sales could be made on PS5/Swtich. Hence many Capcom games skipping the Xbox console outright.

Are we talking about the same Capcom games that increasingly sell very well on PC?
Which recent AAA Capcom game did well on PS and sold poorly on PC?

Some genres do worse on Xbox (JRPGs, Fighting games ) because the audience is on other platforms. But pretty much none of the upcoming Xbox first party games fall into these categories.

PS5 also have the Uncharted audience. So Indiana Jones might do well on PlayStation more so than Steam / Xbox. But making it timed exclusive might make its chances of successful on the PS platform less likely.

There’s a very significant difference between the Uncharted series and what MachineGames is working on for Indiana Jones.
In fact, you’d be hard pressed to claim more of the excitement here on GAF is coming from fans of Uncharted

The proof is in the pudding. They are going multiplatform. What more proof you need ?

If GamePass was making significant losses they would have just discontinued the service. Not the first time MS has cut their losses and moved on. Even releasing it multiplatform doesn’t remove the fact that one portion would be in the red.

The correct inference is that they seem to be moving away from hardware focus, and are being driven by MS leadership to boost software revenue and profits.

You think PlayStation bringing their games to PC was part of an attempt to stop losses?

 

[DenchDeckard]

I don't think there's a single developer on the planet that wouldn't want a larger potential audience.

Why would someone who is a creative enjoy less people being able to enjoy what they've created?

Only business suits would want to reduce barriers to entry to control it and maximise in a monetary way.

 

[Topher]

This is Project Latitude in action.


Latitude refers to the scope and freedom of action. As such, the finance team at Xbox has prevailed, allowing each team the freedom to increase their revenue as they see fit. This means those teams no longer need to follow that small management team at the top that we all know and love


This is all about making the numbers work.

I don't think that these decisions are being made at the studio level. Jez Corden, who revealed this "project latitude" codename, said this was due to Satya Nadella's push for increased margins for each department. That would mean it is up to Phil Spencer to make that happen.

 

[yazenov]

You're wrong, though. They’ve been releasing their games on PC before GamePass kicked off, and they’ve been on Steam since 2019, well before the Series generation kicked off.

In the Xbox One generation, GamePass growth was very rapid. Saying it ‘flopped’ when it grew rapidly is a fairy tale.



So if GamePass subscribers off, they become paying customers. Which means they’ll buy the game at $70.

‘Xbox gamers are trained not to buy games’ is an inane fable since we KNOW for sure that third party AAA games are purchased at a rate commensurate with the install base. Madden, NBA 2k, Previous COD games, FIFA games etc. They bought these games instead of ‘waiting for them’.




Are we talking about the same Capcom games that increasingly sell very well on PC?
Which recent AAA Capcom game did well on PS and sold poorly on PC?

Some genres do worse on Xbox (JRPGs, Fighting games ) because the audience is on other platforms. But pretty much none of the upcoming Xbox first party games fall into these categories.



There’s a very significant difference between the Uncharted series and what MachineGames is working on for Indiana Jones.
In fact, you’d be hard pressed to claim more of the excitement here on GAF is coming from fans of Uncharted





If GamePass was making significant losses they would have just discontinued the service. Not the first time MS has cut their losses and moved on. Even releasing it multiplatform doesn’t remove the fact that one portion would be in the red.

The correct inference is that they seem to be moving away from hardware focus, and are being driven by MS leadership to boost software revenue and profits.

You think PlayStation bringing their games to PC was part of an attempt to stop losses?

You're wrong, though. They’ve been releasing their games on PC before GamePass kicked off, and they’ve been on Steam since 2019, well before the Series generation kicked off.

In the Xbox One generation, GamePass growth was very rapid. Saying it ‘flopped’ when it grew rapidly is a fairy tale.

When was the 1st party Xbox game released on steam day one? I know that they had released their games before on MS's PC app store, but Steam day one releases is more resent?

As for Gamepass, I said it failed to drive hardware growth ,not subscriber growth. Read my post again. It flopped in driving consoles sales , which leads to a stunted overall subscriber growth due to the capped userbase. And most of the userbase of Gamepass is on console initially.

So if GamePass subscribers off, they become paying customers. Which means they’ll buy the game at $70.

That's a huge stretch. We know from the European sales charts that Xbox software sales (combines Xbox One and Series S/X) are less than the PS4 software sales . That's extremely hilariously bad. The same trend is applied in all over the word, with the exception is the US probably. Xbox userbase purchasing power is basically negligible.

There’s a very significant difference between the Uncharted series and what MachineGames is working on for Indiana Jones.
In fact, you’d be hard pressed to claim more of the excitement here on GAF is coming from fans of Uncharted

I think Uncharted was inspired by the Indian Jones movie franchise along with Tomb Raider, but I could be wrong. Anyways , It could cater to a similar fanbase if its 3rd person instead of 1st person. Modern audiences not withstanding

If GamePass was making significant losses they would have just discontinued the service. Not the first time MS has cut their losses and moved on. Even releasing it multiplatform doesn’t remove the fact that one portion would be in the red.

The correct inference is that they seem to be moving away from hardware focus, and are being driven by MS leadership to boost software revenue and profits.

You think PlayStation bringing their games to PC was part of an attempt to stop losses?

MS had not choice but to abort their hardware ambitions given the atrocious demand (lack of it). Don't get the wrong idea, MS wishes it could sell hardware like Sony and Nintendo.

Gamepass was a desperate attempt to stay relevant after the embarrassment that was the Xbox One. Make no mistake, the market forced MS's hand, and it was not by design.
There is a reason we never see their profit in their financials. Because they are a shamed of their poor Xbox performance. Lets be real. They were pumping their chest like a gorilla during the Xbox 360 generation .


Gamepass will be less relevant once MS goes full multiplatform. Lets wait and see. I'll drop you a message telling you I told you soon.

As for Sony releasing their games on the PC, its called capitalism and greed. They are swimming in cash during their widely successful PS4 generation without PC releases. But they simply want more? Big difference between Sony and MS. Widely different circumstances. MS cannot survive with Steam (and other consoles now), while Sony could do just fine from PS5 (check their financial for profits with PC).

 

[Mephisto40]

It will probably mean their studio doesn't get closed, so not surprised they are happy

 

[Deerock71]

I hope it does well for them. We need some single player games that don't suck. Also...Switch 2, please. I'd double dip.

 

[Heisenberg007]

They want to make money outside of their walled garden because Gamepass is burning cash for them with their tiny console user base. And their Gamepass subscriber growth has stalled if not outright shrank. MS is now combining Gamepass Core aka poor man's Gamepass into the calculation to hide the fact that Gamepass growth is stagnant. I don't know the actual Gamepass Ultimate Subs, but I do know it's probably by far below the number you've stated.

Based on the last 3 official figures, we know that Game Pass actually lost 3.1 million subscribers between January 2022 and February 2024.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Apparently he didn't run fast enough this time

Can't wait to play this, I have a good feeling about this one.

 

[Judge Magister]

I'm also thrilled because I don't buy an Xbox since Xbox 360. And I'm waiting for the Pro to buy a PS5.

Indy games have been average at best. Raiders of Lost Ark movie and LucasArts's Point & Click games are pretty good though. Hope this game ends up being too.

 

[Ozriel]

When was the 1st party Xbox game released on steam day one? I know that they had released their games before on MS's PC app store, but Steam day one releases is more resent?

They’d dabbled with Steam releases since Halo Wars in 2017, but moved over in a big way back in 2019, with a Master Chief Collection port and Gears 5 appearing there day one.

That's a huge stretch. We know from the European sales charts that Xbox software sales (combines Xbox One and Series S/X) are less than the PS4 software sales . That's extremely hilariously bad. The same trend is applied in all over the word, with the exception is the US probably. Xbox userbase purchasing power is basically negligible.

You pretty much made this up.
Aside from genres that are very niche on Xbox like JRPGs, the Xbox base buys AAA third party games at levels proportional to the install base.

This narrative that Xbox gamers don’t buy games is just falsehood.

MS had not choice but to abort their hardware ambitions given the atrocious demand (lack of it). Don't get the wrong idea, MS wishes it could sell hardware like Sony and Nintendo.

Gamepass was a desperate attempt to stay relevant after the embarrassment that was the Xbox One. Make no mistake, the market forced MS's hand, and it was not by design.
There is a reason we never see their profit in their financials. Because they are a shamed of their poor Xbox performance. Lets be real. They were pumping their chest like a gorilla during the Xbox 360 generation .


Gamepass will be less relevant once MS goes full multiplatform. Lets wait and see. I'll drop you a message telling you I told you soon.

Not even going to engage with this

As for Sony releasing their games on the PC, its called capitalism and greed. They are swimming in cash during their widely successful PS4 generation without PC releases. But they simply want more? Big difference between Sony and MS. Widely different circumstances. MS cannot survive with Steam (and other consoles now), while Sony could do just fine from PS5 (check their financial for profits with PC).

Nah. It’s called ‘declining profit margins’, something Sony is still struggling with.

 

[yazenov]

They’d dabbled with Steam releases since Halo Wars in 2017, but moved over in a big way back in 2019, with a Master Chief Collection port and Gears 5 appearing there day one.




You pretty much made this up.
Aside from genres that are very niche on Xbox like JRPGs, the Xbox base buys AAA third party games at levels proportional to the install base.

This narrative that Xbox gamers don’t buy games is just falsehood.



Not even going to engage with this



Nah. It’s called ‘declining profit margins’, something Sony is still struggling with.

PS4 sold more games than Xbox Series X in Europe last year

Just 34% of games sold last year were actually released in 2023

www.gamesradar.com

"More PS4 games were sold in Europe in 2023 than Xbox Series X games.

That's according to sales data from GSD (via GamesIndustry.biz), which reports physical media sales across major European markets. In total, more PS4 games were sold throughout the whole of 2023 than games for the Xbox Series X console were sold in the same period"

 

[Ozriel]

PS4 sold more games than Xbox Series X in Europe last year

Just 34% of games sold last year were actually released in 2023

www.gamesradar.com

"More PS4 games were sold in Europe in 2023 than Xbox Series X games.

That's according to sales data from GSD (via GamesIndustry.biz), which reports physical media sales across major European markets. In total, more PS4 games were sold throughout the whole of 2023 than games for the Xbox Series X console were sold in the same period"

You should have read your article better

It's also worth pointing out that, according to the GSD data, only 34% of new games sold in Europe last year were new releases in 2023. The PS4 obviously has a much further-reaching back catalog of games than the Xbox Series X consoles, and when 66% of games sales in 2023 are older games, it shouldn't be a huge surprise that the huge PS4 install base would account for a massive amount of these sales.

So the PS4 has a bigger install base than the Xbox Series in Europe, and this tracks purely physical sales. Meanwhile the Xbox Series skews heavily digital thanks to the Series S lacking a disc drive.

This doesn’t even come close to addressing your claims. You said games sell better on PS4 than the Xbox Series. So picking a single game that’s not in a relatively niche genre and claiming the game will have a higher attach rate on last gen consoles compared to Xbox Series. Source for that?

Again, you’re going to have to remove the install base differences when you make the

 

[Mobilemofo]

Breaking: People who made game express happy emotion at being on another platform, enabling the making of more money.

 

[yazenov]

You should have read your article better



So the PS4 has a bigger install base than the Xbox Series in Europe, and this tracks purely physical sales. Meanwhile the Xbox Series skews heavily digital thanks to the Series S lacking a disc drive.

This doesn’t even come close to addressing your claims. You said games sell better on PS4 than the Xbox Series. So picking a single game that’s not in a relatively niche genre and claiming the game will have a higher attach rate on last gen consoles compared to Xbox Series. Source for that?

Again, you’re going to have to remove the install base differences when you make the

You should read the article.

"This is based on GSD data, which tracks all physical game sales across major European markets, and digital sales from most major games publishers across every country in Europe."

You can't hide behind the mythical 100 percent Xbox digital sales now since the tracker tracks both physical and digital sales.

Why should we remove the install base from the equation? It's MS fault it hardware sells like crap. It's still extremely hilarious that the ancient PS4 that was launched 11 years ago still sell more software than the XBX. Yes, that puts into perspective just how atrocious software sales are on that platform which led them to become 3rd party.

You claimed that I made shit up and then after I post receipts you are moving the gold post. Xbox software sales are laughable. Xbox consumers don't buy games, they Gamepass games for cheap.

 

[Ozriel]

You should read the article.

"This is based on GSD data, which tracks all physical game sales across major European markets, and digital sales from most major games publishers across every country in Europe."

You can't hide behind the mythical 100 percent Xbox digital sales now since the tracker tracks both physical and digital sales.

Why should we remove the install base from the equation? It's MS fault it hardware sells like crap. It's still extremely hilarious that the ancient PS4 that was launched 11 years ago still sell more software than the XBX. Yes, that puts into perspective just how atrocious software sales are on that platform which led them to become 3rd party.

You claimed that I made shit up and then after I post receipts you are moving the gold post. Xbox software sales are laughable. Xbox consumers don't buy games, they Gamepass games for cheap.

I don’t think you truly understand. You’re claiming Xbox owners don’t buy games. That is a mindset or purchase habit, and is a completely different thing from install base.

To remind you of your own position (since you’re moving goalposts) it can be summarized as “even if Xbox gamers drop GamePass, they still won’t buy games because they don’t buy games”

if your ‘proof’ is that fewer overall games are sold, even when you admit that the console is outsold significantly in Europe, then you clearly have no point.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

It belongs in a PlayStation!

 

[FlyyGOD]

They want to make money outside of their walled garden because Gamepass is burning cash for them with their tiny console user base. And their Gamepass subscriber growth has stalled if not outright shrank. MS is now combining Gamepass Core aka poor man's Gamepass into the calculation to hide the fact that Gamepass growth is stagnant. I don't know the actual Gamepass Ultimate Subs, but I do know it's probably by far below the number you've stated.

This is just 1st party game, but 1 single subscription fee paid by a customer is distributed into several games (I'm not even counting 3rd party, which needs to get paid to be on Gamepass). Here is the list of 1st party games in 2024 for MS off the top of my head:

Hellblade 2
Indiana Jones
Age of Mythology: Retold
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024
Call of Duty: Black Ops 6

Avowed should be on the list, but it got delayed to 2025. So Imagine paying for the development and marketing for all those games for 12 months worth of subscriptions, and paying for all those servers to run the services> and also the 3rd party pubs. Yeah, that's why MS doesn't disclose the gaming division profits, as they are most probably in the red. Don't be fooled by the revenue chest pumping, which was also inflated by the Activision Blizzard acquisition.

MS had no choice but to release games on the PS5 or face dire financial consequences for its gaming division (Xbox).

30 million unit sold is small?

 

[StueyDuck]

they most likely start development alongside that awful youngbloods game so there's a strong chance this was coming to Sony platforms from inception.

 

[Arsic]

Real games are on PlayStation

Concord is the most real game Sony has ever released.

 

[Heisenberg007]

they most likely start development alongside that awful youngbloods game so there's a strong chance this was coming to Sony platforms from inception.

No, they didn't. It was confirmed as an exclusive by both Phil Spencer and Disney executives, because Phil renegotiated with Disney after Bethesda's acquisition and made Indiana Jones exclusive.

 

[StueyDuck]

No, they didn't. It was confirmed as an exclusive by both Phil Spencer and Disney executives, because Phil renegotiated with Disney after Bethesda's acquisition and made Indiana Jones exclusive.

as you say, made it exclusive, meaning initially it probably wasn't being considered to be, same with starfield and redfall etc.

 

[Heisenberg007]

as you say, made it exclusive, meaning initially it probably wasn't being considered to be, same with starfield and redfall etc.

But that happened ~3 years ago, which means Indiana Jones has not been in development for PS5 for the past 3+ years.

The decision to reverse it and make it multiplatform was definitely more recent, which is why it is gonna take ~4-5 months longer for the PS5 version to finish, while the Xbox version will be finished and released sooner.

 

[Hayabusabruh]

Yup. And Sony will use that money to make sure the next Asian game with a sword they see, doesn't come to Xbox.

 

[solidus12]

 

[adamsapple]

Concord is the most real game Sony has ever released.

Gamers™ when Concord released

 

[mckmas8808]

Breaking: People who made game express happy emotion at being on another platform, enabling the making of more money.

And keep their jobs!

 

[Mobilemofo]

And keep their jobs!

More importantly. It's a fuckin nightmare to work in..