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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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Blizzard

Banned
Ludum Dare 48-hour entry:

screenshot_13akct.png


screenshot_24uj7r.png


Game page: http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-30/?action=preview&uid=12278

As usual I ended up thinking of something about 3 times as large as I could do in time. The result is really simple, silly, and probably tedious, but at least it's "complete" and you should be able to win by getting to janitor in about 5 minutes.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Great game for 48-hours. Has a real Sim-City vibe to it.

I be it was fun making it!
 

Blizzard

Banned
Great game for 48-hours. Has a real Sim-City vibe to it.

I be it was fun making it!
Yeah, it was weird in that I kept getting ideas about what I was envisioning for such a game, I actually liked the idea, and I was pretty focused. It was probably the least time I've spent being stuck in a Ludum Dare. As in, I might have wasted 1-2 hours getting Sonar X3 working but other than that I was mostly limited by being OCD about code and comments, and having a bunch of assets / code to create.

Like, it's not GOOD, and it's always amazing how little one ends up with after spending so much time, but it was kind of cool to actually have an idea and want to do it no matter what the result was.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Ah, that music loop is very comforting..
Since you bring the topic up, I'm new to the world of doing music electronically. I've played piano for years, and I play ukulele, but I've only recently been trying to use the Cakewalk family (Music Creator Touch 6 / Sonar X3) to do stuff.

What I'd really like to know is if there are any good walkthroughs of the entire song-creating process -- whether it's an electronic song or pseudo acoustic. A lot of videos seem to start by using a bunch of existing loops or samples from songs. That can sound nice, but it seems like it can also be really difficult to know whether you have permission to use those tracks in a commercial song -- plus of course you can't use them in a Ludum Dare competition, only drum effects / loops.

This is the closest thing I've found so far, a set of videos walking through setting up a project with channels and putting the tracks together: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQPamrKme83RckVgi9BnJVG6uXCYDpMZ2

If anyone has any good resources they know of, I would love to hear about them!
 
"What I'd really like to know is if there are any good walkthroughs of the entire song-creating process -- whether it's an electronic song or pseudo acoustic. A lot of videos seem to start by using a bunch of existing loops or samples from songs. That can sound nice, but it seems like it can also be really difficult to know whether you have permission to use those tracks in a commercial song -- plus of course you can't use them in a Ludum Dare competition, only drum effects / loops."


You mentioned playing piano for awhile, how much music theory do you know? If you don't know much, that'd be the starting point. The thing is that the song-writing process varies (drastically) from person to person and even from song to song, so if you have any more specific queries that'd help give you a starting point.

You don't need to use samples or loops, there are synthesizer plugins for Digital Audio Workstations (DAW for short, like Sonar) that you can control in the DAW to create your own stuff.
 

Blizzard

Banned
"What I'd really like to know is if there are any good walkthroughs of the entire song-creating process -- whether it's an electronic song or pseudo acoustic. A lot of videos seem to start by using a bunch of existing loops or samples from songs. That can sound nice, but it seems like it can also be really difficult to know whether you have permission to use those tracks in a commercial song -- plus of course you can't use them in a Ludum Dare competition, only drum effects / loops."


You mentioned playing piano for awhile, how much music theory do you know? If you don't know much, that'd be the starting point. The thing is that the song-writing process varies (drastically) from person to person and even from song to song, so if you have any more specific queries that'd help give you a starting point.
I did several music theory books when I was taking lessons, played classical music music for a long time, and also worked through some composition / arrangement book.

I'm interested in the electronic side particularly, though. It's one thing to make a melody, or arrange a choral song with chord accompaniment, but another thing to put together different instruments in music studio software.

It's difficult for me to explain -- like the different between an academic concept and the actual concrete execution. Even seeing how one person might go about it would be interesting to me, and I'm hoping the video series I linked may involve that.
 
Well, after a quick skim of that video series you linked it seems to touch upon the main things you would need to know to work inside of Sonar. Creating tracks, making midi clips for virtual instruments and so forth. The workflow is (more or less) the same as most other DAWs, so you could also look at this video for logic. The shortcuts and menu options are different, but the foundation of what he's doing in that video is pretty close as to what you'd do in Sonar, you'd just need to learn how to do the same thing in Sonar.
 

Mabef

Banned
This was my first Ludum Dare, and I totally crashed and burned! Chores kept me away from computers until Sunday morning, and I downsized like never before. And I still couldn't get all the basic mechanics in! It might was well be a series of buttons with random numbers flying around for no reason. But whatever, I'm proud of making something in my free time. It's over here.

I did several music theory books when I was taking lessons, played classical music music for a long time, and also worked through some composition / arrangement book.

I'm interested in the electronic side particularly, though. It's one thing to make a melody, or arrange a choral song with chord accompaniment, but another thing to put together different instruments in music studio software.

It's difficult for me to explain -- like the different between an academic concept and the actual concrete execution. Even seeing how one person might go about it would be interesting to me, and I'm hoping the video series I linked may involve that.
Personally I haven't seen a helpful series about the process of creating digital music. Like, I've loved plenty of stuff about big things like theory, history, philosophies 'n stuff, and small things like how a particular synth works. But not much in the middle.

That said, I've really love the podcast "Song Exploder." Every week an artist bring the stems from something they made, and break down how and why they made everything. It's always super inspiring to me, and they usually touch on workflow. Might be up your alley.
 
"That said, I've really love the podcast "Song Exploder." Every week an artist bring the stems from something they made, and break down how and why they made everything. It's always super inspiring to me, and they usually touch on workflow. Might be up your alley."


Future Music Magazine and Computer Music magazine do similar things on their magazine DVDs, though both now upload the videos to Youtube after a few months.

https://www.youtube.com/user/FutureMusicMagazine/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/ComputerMusicMag/videos


Honestly, once you understand the basic parts of the interface, you just go in and start making music. Using the software itself isn't that complicated, it's the "having a good ear for what makes good music" that's hard.
 

Mabef

Banned
Future Music Magazine and Computer Music magazine do similar things on their magazine DVDs, though both now upload the videos to Youtube after a few months.

https://www.youtube.com/user/FutureMusicMagazine/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/ComputerMusicMag/videos


Honestly, once you understand the basic parts of the interface, you just go in and start making music. Using the software itself isn't that complicated, it's the "having a good ear for what makes good music" that's hard.
Aah these are great, thank you.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Well, after a quick skim of that video series you linked it seems to touch upon the main things you would need to know to work inside of Sonar. Creating tracks, making midi clips for virtual instruments and so forth. The workflow is (more or less) the same as most other DAWs, so you could also look at this video for logic. The shortcuts and menu options are different, but the foundation of what he's doing in that video is pretty close as to what you'd do in Sonar, you'd just need to learn how to do the same thing in Sonar.
Thanks, I bookmarked that Logic video for later. That's probably the sort of thing I am interested in, though of course in the video the idea is to back or reproduce an existing song rather than making a new one.
 
This was my first Ludum Dare, and I totally crashed and burned! Chores kept me away from computers until Sunday morning, and I downsized like never before. And I still couldn't get all the basic mechanics in! It might was well be a series of buttons with random numbers flying around for no reason. But whatever, I'm proud of making something in my free time. It's over here.

Hey, you could just keep working on it today and enter it in the jam division rather than the compo, if you want.
 

derFeef

Member
Inspiring thread :)

I have decided to use Unity for my little spare-time project I want to do for a long time now.
Hopefully I am able to realize what I want to do with my little programming skills, but it's not going to be a complicated project (I hope).

Looking forward to share and ask away - happy creating!

edit: first question though - should I just plain start with a 3D rather than a 2D project? Even if my little game will not use much 3D space.
I
 

kabel

Member
^Your first game? I would say 2D. Try to learn at first C#.

But you are using Unity so technically even the 2D games are 3D(it's just locked to one perspective)
 

derFeef

Member
Thanks for the suggestion, I guess if I need to "switch" it's easy enough. I did some programming years back, now I am a graphic artist and all I do is some actionscript somtimes and make my own little scripts for photoshop in java if I need something - so hopefully I am not fully lost :)
 

Empirion

Neo Member
My team, Tricephalus, which is basically myself and two friends, have just announced our first game.

woaPdCg.png


Leonardo's Folly is a 2D side-scrolling, endless flier, in which Leonardo da Vinci takes to the skies with machines straight out of his plans... and dreams.

It will be coming out for iOS and Android in the (we hope) not too distant future.

I'll be sure to post some screenshots further down the road.

Relevant links:

Leonardo's Folly Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/leonardosfollygame
Tricephalus' Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tricephalus
Tricephalus' Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/tricephalusgames
 

Hyoukokun

Member
Thought you folks might enjoy this - my compo entry to Ludum Dare 30:



I'd recommend playing with a proper mouse (trackpad is doable but more challenging, you'll need the keyboard controls too). Let me know what you think!
 

missile

Member
What l need help on is implementing the camera when using matrices. If anyone has a guide on this that would be great. ...
I think the net is cluttered with stuff like this but is perhaps not the
best place to grasp deeper knowledge from. A book is much better in this
case esp. if you want to do things from first principles. And there is no
other book like 'Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice' (2nd Edition in
C) within this regard. Matrix transformation and building viewing
transformations, as well as perspective transformation are described in there
quite well from various different angles. It's the bible of Computer Graphics.

... Also can you expand on the frustum/culling or point me to a tutorial? ...
These days frustum culling/clipping is done in an normalized camera/screen
space which is often called clip-space, since clipping a polygon against the
transformed frustum becomes much easier because the plane equations bounding
the frustum become trivial. However, the old-school way of clipping is done
in object-space, which is more difficult due to the non-trivial plane
equations of the frustum. Anyhow. If you try to cull/clip your polygons
against the object-space frustum, you basically solve a collision detection
problem.

Given you have already eliminated many polygons which will not collide with a
give one (using sphere tests etc.). For the remaining ones you have to do (at
the end of the day) an intersection test to determine if a given polygon does
indeed intersect the one in question. So how to do it? Here is a not so
difficult method, it's pure geometrical.

Out of my head...

Part (a):
Given we want to check polygon B against A (both being convex) for collision
resp. intersection. The first thing we do is to look if polygon B intersects
the plane of A (the plane in which A lies), which can easily be checked by
inserting the points of B into the plane equation for A and watching the
signs. If the signs are all the same, then polygon B lies entirely on one side
of polygon A and a such there can't be any intersection. Now if this condition
doesn't hold there is at least one point of B on the other side of A leading
to two intersection points. Both points can be computed by forming the
respective parametrized line equations and inserting them into the plane
equation for A and solving for the parameter, each. The parameter is then used
to compute the intersection point by inserting it into the line equation,
for each line respectively.

Part (b):
Now we have to check if any of the two intersection points fall within the
polygon of A. If one does at least, we found a collision. Well, both points
already lay in the plane of A, but they doesn't necessarily fall within the
bounds of A. So we need to make a 3d containment test, which is the expensive
part. How to do it? Well, when does any of the two intersection points fall
within A? Imagine we construct a plane from each edge of the polygon of A
having a normal perpendicular to the normal of the A. These planes will bound
the interior of A. The test to be made now is simply to check if any of the
two intersection points lay on the same side (same sign) of all the planes
(similar like in Part (a)). If any one does, then this intersection point
falls within A, hence, a collision. The edge planes can easily be computed by
taking the cross-product of the plane's normal of A and an edge of A, for each
edge.

That's it. You just have to organize all the polygons and then test them
against each other. So if you have a wall and a cube for example, you would
simply take each polygon of the cube and test it against the polygon
representing the wall.

Any flaws? For sure. Always. One issue with this method is that a fast moving
polygon may pass another one in one frame without getting detected. However,
there is a way, yet computationally expensive one, to resolved this issue. If
you grow with the method you will get there ... naturally. ;)
 

oxrock

Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
Ludum Dare 48-hour entry:

screenshot_13akct.png


screenshot_24uj7r.png


Game page: http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-30/?action=preview&uid=12278

As usual I ended up thinking of something about 3 times as large as I could do in time. The result is really simple, silly, and probably tedious, but at least it's "complete" and you should be able to win by getting to janitor in about 5 minutes.

Thought you folks might enjoy this - my compo entry to Ludum Dare 30:



I'd recommend playing with a proper mouse (trackpad is doable but more challenging, you'll need the keyboard controls too). Let me know what you think!

What I would love to know is how people manage to put something playable out in 2-3 days. I've been working on a title on and off for several months and it's not that developed! Anyway, kudos to you guys, I think it's awesome.
 
anyone have a recommendation for creating a self generating vertical road for a shmup car game?

I'm looking at the NES game VICE for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuhV-YgupAg

I built an object that spits out a piece of road and moves along a path every step (doing this in GameMaker), but I'm starting to think it might just be wiser to make a really long vertical level instead and do it by hand.

Auto road generation where all I have to do is draw a path then have the game create the road for me would be awesome, but I'm starting to think manually doing it may be a better choice since I already ran into some headaches with the 'path' version.
 

derFeef

Member
I spent two hours getting pixel perfect placement and scaling right in Unity, now I am done for today, haha... Sprites look good now and I can actually palce them how I want - also helps I am getting the hang of the UI and the layer management. I like this!
 
Hello IndieGAF this is my first post but I've been lurking this forums for a while so I sort of recognize some of you. Anyways, I want/have to make a game for my final high school project so I get my technologist certificate. I have 1 year to make the game to get my certificate but this semester (August - December) I also have to do a videogame for a course's final project (but not as ambitious) so in total 2 videogame projects.

This semester we're learning XNA and we need to make the course's project with it. For my final certificate project I am free to do the game however I want it with the following restrictions:
a) Has to use free or open source software.
b) Can't have violence.
c) Has to be educational in some way, shape or form.

So my idea for the game is to recreate my entire school campus with the gameplay and art style of the old GBA Pokemon games. Meaning that the game is going to be looking at the player in a top down view, done with pixel art, with NPC interaction, etc. I'm thinking of making various minigames like playing soccer, robot battles, math puzzles, finding the school's logo in the buildings, exploring the campus and having funny references (eastern eggs) to the most cool teachers in the school (that everyone knows and loves!). To make my project look a little more impressive, I plan to buy a PS Vita TV and port my game to it with PSM since its free to develop for it.

So I come to IndieGAF for recommendations and opinions!
1.- What would be easier and faster to develop my game with: XNA or Unity and port it to the PS Vita TV?
2.- Best software for pixel art?
3.- Best software for music?
4.- Tutorials for making a game like Pokemon with XNA or Unity.
5.- Opinions with my game idea (good or bad).

I don't seek to make any money out of the game, its just so I get experience with the tools, learn new things and get my certificate (and also have fun!). Sorry for the wall of text and I apologize with the grammar but English is not my native language. Its good to finally be a member of NeoGAF :D
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Unity Unity Unity!!! XNA is old news.
unless you're required to use it by the course, in that case blaaaaaaah
 
So I come to IndieGAF for recommendations and opinions!
1.- What would be easier and faster to develop my game with: XNA or Unity and port it to the PS Vita TV?
2.- Best software for pixel art?
3.- Best software for music?
4.- Tutorials for making a game like Pokemon with XNA or Unity.
5.- Opinions with my game idea (good or bad).

1: Unity, XNA is a dead end
2: Anything that can put pixels and save as a PNG. Preferably Photoshop but it's really preferance. For free stuff there's GIMP.
3: Not so sure about audio, I only know of commercial level stuff like FL Studio and Pro Tools.
4: Google...sorry don't know many sites off hand, I just bookmark things.
5: Don't kill yourself with complexity. Start with basic functionality and expand from there. Make sure it's modular enough that you can use the code for other projects. Always think long term with code, can save you time over time.
 
Phew, done with Ludum Dare. Fun times at the very end when you try to build the standalone program and realize that, while it works fine in the Unity editor, the build is all broken. I managed to fix it just before the submission deadline.

If anyone wants to check it out: http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-30/?action=preview&uid=29335

I managed to make something playable after all, though I offer no guarantee that it's any fun. :) It's pretty bare-bones compared to what I was hoping to accomplish but... eh, that's always the case for jams, isn't it? Do read the instructions on the LD page because I have a feeling it's hard to grasp otherwise (maybe it is even with the instructions).
 

JulianImp

Member
So my idea for the game is to recreate my entire school campus with the gameplay and art style of the old GBA Pokemon games. Meaning that the game is going to be looking at the player in a top down view, done with pixel art, with NPC interaction, etc. I'm thinking of making various minigames like playing soccer, robot battles, math puzzles, finding the school's logo in the buildings, exploring the campus and having funny references (eastern eggs) to the most cool teachers in the school (that everyone knows and loves!). To make my project look a little more impressive, I plan to buy a PS Vita TV and port my game to it with PSM since its free to develop for it.

I'd advise against going straight for a Pokémon-like project for your first game. Also, you should understand that the various minigames actually mean lots of different things you'll have to code, and it'd be like making lots of different games in one actually! It's better to have a single game you can focus on rather than packing something with lots of random stuff that will have to be coded separatedly.

1.- What would be easier and faster to develop my game with: XNA or Unity and port it to the PS Vita TV?
2.- Best software for pixel art?
3.- Best software for music?
4.- Tutorials for making a game like Pokemon with XNA or Unity.
5.- Opinions with my game idea (good or bad).

1- XNA support is either dead or about to go away, so your best bet is Unity. If you end up going with it, then please go with C# as your language of choice, since I've hear UnityScript is all kinds of awful
2- Gimp works fine, since pixel art doesn't require fancy filters or anything
3- Audacity's free and quite decent
4- That's a harder one. Again, I advise against doing a Pokémon game, since RPGs can get quite complex and full of dialogue trees you'll have to write and maintain
5- Again, working on lots of mini-games is a waste since you'll probably be unable to reuse code among them. You're better of working on a game with a reduced set of mechanics that doesn't take forever to complete, unlike RPGs or minigame compilations
 
I'd advise against going straight for a Pokémon-like project for your first game. Also, you should understand that the various minigames actually mean lots of different things you'll have to code, and it'd be like making lots of different games in one actually! It's better to have a single game you can focus on rather than packing something with lots of random stuff that will have to be coded separatedly.



1- XNA support is either dead or about to go away, so your best bet is Unity. If you end up going with it, then please go with C# as your language of choice, since I've hear UnityScript is all kinds of awful
2- Gimp works fine, since pixel art doesn't require fancy filters or anything
3- Audacity's free and quite decent
4- That's a harder one. Again, I advise against doing a Pokémon game, since RPGs can get quite complex and full of dialogue trees you'll have to write and maintain
5- Again, working on lots of mini-games is a waste since you'll probably be unable to reuse code among them. You're better of working on a game with a reduced set of mechanics that doesn't take forever to complete, unlike RPGs or minigame compilations

Unity it is then! But I'm not planning to make an RPG. If anything all the NPCs would say is "Hi, how are you?" and then leave and do there walking loops or whatever else. I'm going to start with making the entrance and the player. I'll check out Audacity because I feel sound is what I'm going to struggle with the most.
 

JulianImp

Member
Unity it is then! But I'm not planning to make an RPG. If anything all the NPCs would say is "Hi, how are you?" and then leave and do there walking loops or whatever else. I'm going to start with making the entrance and the player. I'll check out Audacity because I feel sound is what I'm going to struggle with the most.

I mean as in making meaningful dialogue can be a bit hard to do right, and populating the world with paper-thin characters would probably make your game look worse than just having a few of them with some decent dialogues instead. If you're really into that movement system and talking to people, then perhaps you might do well to check out games such as the 2D Legend of Zeldas, The Binding of Isaac or Golden Sun, which use that movement system but let you do some fun things in there without having to rely on mini-games.

Audacity is meant for manipulating individual sounds (ie: normalizing, noise removal, equalization and all that jazz). For composing music you could try out DreamStation 1 (version 2 is paid, but 1 is absolutely free), but I'd advise against creating your own music for your very first project (it's hard!), and rather direct you to places where you can get songs you can use for free, such as Newgrounds.
 

dzelly

Member
I wanted to start out by thanking everyone for taking part in this thread, and the hard work that went into its creation. I began my exposure with the games industry as the founder of a small games media site called iGame Responsibly. There I found myself almost immediately entrenched in the indie development scene, doing whatever I could to help devs promote their games. My transition into making indie games couldn't have been more seamless as a result.

My three-man dev studio has released our first couple games in the past month on both Google PLAY and SlideME Android marketplaces.

TL:DR Version - I provide artwork and design for MurWare, we've released two games (links below) with a third on the way. We're working with the Unity engine, mostly in 2-D thus far. iOS versions are forthcoming, Mac hardware is expensive, but I managed to just get my hands on a Macbook Pro so we can compile using Unity for Mac.

Download Links:

Barnstormers
Oley Poley

Both games were experiments in specific game mechanics. First, we released Oley Poley, an endless runner-type reverse-platformer. Our goal was to begin working with Unity's 2-D toolset to get a better understanding moving forward (this is the first game we've ever published).

I created the artwork and promo materials for the game, and I'm relatively happy with the result. When we launched there wasn't any background music or tutorials. We had about 50 downloads the first day, and some of the folks were nice enough to email us before submitting a review. Both music and tutorials were requested, so I scrambled to provide both quickly. Our subsequent release on SlideME has netted us a good amount of downloads as well. Suffice to say, it's better than I thought our first release would go. We'll be getting the game on iOS in the near future.

Our second game, Barnstormers released just last week. Our aim with this game was to produce proper UI components for the first time, and work on the random spawning of objects. Again, I created all artwork and promo materials associated with the title.

So far, we've had about 200 downloads in the first week of availability, making Barnstormers our most successful launch yet!

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions, comments, or are just interested in talking game dev or asset creation. Follow me on Twitter if you're so inclined @Mur_Zelly.

Thanks for reading!
 
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