This doesn't really take into account the emotions of the harassed at the time does it? We don't know her motivations or reasons for not instantly telling him off and frankly they shouldn't matter because this behavior is completely unacceptable anyway.
IndieStatik Founder apologizes for "inappropriate" comments to female game dev
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This doesn't really take into account the emotions of the harassed at the time does it? We don't know her motivations or reasons for not instantly telling him off and frankly they shouldn't matter because this behavior is completely unacceptable anyway.
I will not judge him because nobody is perfect and therefore I shall not judge another person, however reading that made me feel a little uncomfortable and I really hope that she (the female game dev) was strong to ignore all this.
Alcoholism is a serious addiction that affects many people, it's good that he is now going to AA meetings and he's finding therapy to help him with the loss of his brother. I don't now if he decided to just get drunk and be like that or if he really have a serious alcoholism problem. I hope he's not using the issue as a easy way out (he mention that regarding the loss of his brother and he says that "Im not using my brother as a scapegoat" so that's good to know because that would be low.
That brings up his depression who is another serious condition. I'm not a professional so I can't say how odd all this sounds, maybe if someone is drunk and depressed he do not weight his own words, because he certainly didn't this time. That chat however, seems more of something a little male teen without any sexual experience whatsoever would say more than a drunk depressed grown man, yet, I don't know how the mind of a depressed and drunk person works.
The worst part is that, this is the Internet and many people with hate him more and more and he might not be able to ignore all the negativism he is going to get from random people. Another thing to worry about is the credibility that may get affected from his professional side. It's bad enough for him to write what he wrote but when these things cope together with his personal problems and his work it's never a good thing mix up and may harm both his personal and professional life. By saying this I'm not defending him, at all, but I do hope that he can learn his lesson, drop the alcohol with some medical help and may his depression ends soon. I also hope that this can brings sexual harassment a more serious note because for some people it's something light and it's perceived many times as "come oooon he was just kidding!". This shouldn't be the case, it should be a serious theme and it does not matter who does it, it's wrong.
Alcoholism is a serious addiction that affects many people, it's good that he is now going to AA meetings and he's finding therapy to help him with the loss of his brother. I don't now if he decided to just get drunk and be like that or if he really have a serious alcoholism problem. I hope he's not using the issue as a easy way out (he mention that regarding the loss of his brother and he says that "Im not using my brother as a scapegoat" so that's good to know because that would be low.
That brings up his depression who is another serious condition. I'm not a professional so I can't say how odd all this sounds, maybe if someone is drunk and depressed he do not weight his own words, because he certainly didn't this time. That chat however, seems more of something a little male teen without any sexual experience whatsoever would say more than a drunk depressed grown man, yet, I don't know how the mind of a depressed and drunk person works.
The worst part is that, this is the Internet and many people with hate him more and more and he might not be able to ignore all the negativism he is going to get from random people. Another thing to worry about is the credibility that may get affected from his professional side. It's bad enough for him to write what he wrote but when these things cope together with his personal problems and his work it's never a good thing mix up and may harm both his personal and professional life. By saying this I'm not defending him, at all, but I do hope that he can learn his lesson, drop the alcohol with some medical help and may his depression ends soon. I also hope that this can brings sexual harassment a more serious note because for some people it's something light and it's perceived many times as "come oooon he was just kidding!". This shouldn't be the case, it should be a serious theme and it does not matter who does it, it's wrong.
RockTurtle
Member
yo the thirst is too strong for some people
And I wonder what some posters in this thread are trying to accomplish by making blanket accusations of insincerity and putting "victim" in quotes. HMM.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Why is anyone defending the guy seriously, She ignored the remarks but still needed his business. That's as far as the non existent defence goes.
It's actually disheartening seeing people attempt to defend such disrespect to another human being.
Accepting his apology is one (I have no issue with that). But let's not patronise the victim.
It's actually disheartening seeing people attempt to defend such disrespect to another human being.
Accepting his apology is one (I have no issue with that). But let's not patronise the victim.
Aquamarine
Member
1) She asks "Are you tipsy?"
2) She completely ignores his weird, creepy sexual advances
3) When she does acknowledge the occasional post, she responds jokingly
4) Not once does she make a serious reply to his comments outside of "Are you tipsy?"
Those are signs of harassment. Clearly she was uncomfortable with the subject.
Ravensmash
Member
I'd hardly think that incidents like this are in anyway related to the medium at hand.
People are stupid like this in any walk of life.
Hopefully his apology is sincere and he seeks the help he claims to need.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Almost sure he did.
~ * ~ zing ~ * ~
Where should it go then?
Nah, he picked a position before all the news came out, and is just doubling down on it even after Josh was outed.
I done that before, staking a position and not budging even when you know deep down you're wrong.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm really really hesitant to play the "some people must identify with him" card. Like, I can't recall the last time I did. But its basically the only way I can explain some of the reactions in here
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
Sure.. why not. I don't know their whole story but are they friends? Are they good friends? Just casual friends? Have they ever partied before? She's getting a divorce, maybe they've talked in the past. Who knows. Sorry to you it's shitty way of looking at it. I thought this story was going to be completely different. I thought he was calling her a cunt and bitch and going off on twitter or something. I didn't know it was just a dude being an idiot while drunk. After the first time he said he would kiss her vagina, she could of stopped typing to him. It's not hard to stop. It's not like they were in a car or something together.
All I'm saying is I thought this was a different type of story.. like I said. Going off calling her a bitch, selling sex tapes he made with her or something crazy. Didn't know it was going to be an amusing embarrassing jack ass type of story.
Kiss your vagina... ha! Come on man. (not you..dude who used that line) If she doesn't respond right away with something to show she might be interested... pull out! But the liquor had a hold of him. And we all got to read some embarrassing stuff from him because he did it publicly.
meh.... This dude learned a lesson. Hopefully.
Really? The "Are you tipsy" doesn't look serious to me with the emoticon right after it. I think you're reaching here.
Why not? It revolves two people in the industry no? And the fact he initially contacted her because he needed some 'info' about a game or devs. Judging by what he said, how she responded and how some are defending this, makes it seem like this is a conversation we need to have. Really makes you wonder how many women brush off comments like this all the time.
It matters a lot less than hers.
That is pretty much the only time she affirmed his actions.
NoirVisage
Banned
so you let a person that does this that you're supposed to be "friends" with continue to talk to you in this way and increase the chance of him disrespecting your females peers in the process?
Even if there's no justice in the world there is no way she would lose her job for standing up for herself in THIS situation, and if she did, she could sue and make enough to own a small island, turn evil genius and I would volunteer to be her henchman.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
There's no excuse for what he said. His apology doesn't tell me why he should be absolved.
As for the developer, I still think that she should have known that a person digging for info while flirting with her in a creepy manner wasn't something to waste time continuing. I'm not blaming her or deriding her. Don't take it that way. She was getting feedback to her responses at that time that made it clear he wasn't taking a hint, as many of you pointed out. I don't see how pointing it out that she gave him an opportunity to continue by having a dialog with him is a bad thing.
The aftermath of this makes for good exposure on the issues female developers still have in 2014. It's sad that it's still this way. I hope it changes. Maybe things will get better since he's been exposed.
As for the developer, I still think that she should have known that a person digging for info while flirting with her in a creepy manner wasn't something to waste time continuing. I'm not blaming her or deriding her. Don't take it that way. She was getting feedback to her responses at that time that made it clear he wasn't taking a hint, as many of you pointed out. I don't see how pointing it out that she gave him an opportunity to continue by having a dialog with him is a bad thing.
The aftermath of this makes for good exposure on the issues female developers still have in 2014. It's sad that it's still this way. I hope it changes. Maybe things will get better since he's been exposed.
Funky Functionality
Member
I thought Jaffe knew how to better pick his battles by now.
What was Shawn Elliott's word? Wahjah?
Never have I felt such immense wahjah.
What was Shawn Elliott's word? Wahjah?
Never have I felt such immense wahjah.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Well, has the lady in question accepted his apology or not? Because if she has, then case closed, right?
Well at least you are consistent with assuming things.
If the other lady posted it is probably because she felt it was wrong, if she agreed when contacted by Kotaku to publish the article she probably thought it was wrong. Sexual harassment is not some isolated incident, sometimes the workplace culture support this and it becomes hard to report on this issues, and part of why its hard its due statements similar to Jaffe's trying to make this a matter of subjectivity.
There is a clear line between a professional relationship and sexual harassment, acting like those human resources rule books don't exist is not an excuse to pretend that the line is blurry.
If they were not friends, that does kind of make it much worse. The conversation sounded like they were. Poor research on my part but it's almost 3AM here and I need to go to sleep quick.
Anyway. The guy is an asshole but he doesn't deserve to burn for it.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
The thirst is real
That goes for both sides, both viewpoints. I would prefer my daughter, sisters, wife, etc tell someone to stop rather than to take it public. Only take it public if career is on the line - which apparently someone said she was afraid of and reason for not wanting to speak up to him in the first place - seems contradictory.
Women have a powerful voice! Speak up! Women can speak for themselves instead of letting the public do it for them.
And this might be getting my point across a bit better.
Still, not saying she was wrong here...I totally disagree with how that guy acted! I can't imagine saying that to someone I wasn't intimate with!
Fried Food
Banned
I don't see anything wrong with what Jaffe is saying. If anything, his position is quite logical and reasonable. I don't think he is placing blame on the female's part. People like to think that if someone isn't not blasting another according to their belief, that they are in favor of the proposed scoundrel.
polyh3dron
Banned
It's not always the best idea to Obey Your Thirst.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Alcohol x Sexuality x Internets = Clusterfuck
SeanNoonan
Member
That depends, what is going to happen to all the games that were being created by this guy's Kickstarter?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/877458309/indie-statik
Devolution
Member
How about you don't tell us when and where to speak up, and we do it when and if we're comfortable since it's not an easy endeavor?
Probably the same logic that led him to believe a Twisted Metal game wouldn't bomb in 2012.
flatearthpandas
Member
Well said, lol.
Let this be a lesson, kids: Disconnect the internet, take the SIM card out of your phone, and lock your door if you're going to drink all night. And make a lot of food early in the night.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Why are there quotes around "inappropriate" in the thread title?
If we're going to go down that route anyone could claim they felt offended or harassed by someone else for whatever asinine reason (and before you anyone says it, I'm not saying the reasons would be asinine in this case). You could say a person harassed you just because they looked at you for slightly too long. So no, in order to draw a rational, logical line that can be used as a base for what we want to legally pursue as harassment in our society, just listening to people who think they've been harassed is not really the smartest strategy. Discussing the matter openly and rationally sounds better to me.
EdibleKnife
Member
This seems like the biggest and best way a person can speak up if they want something to change though.
Speedloafer
Neo Member
Daughter/Sister/Wife you have a powerful voice, but fuck that keep it private.
She's a starting out dev so she didn't want to piss him off. Ignoring advances is a standard tactic used by women to deflect advances. Feel free to drop by Dating-Age for communication advice with women. Her friend uploaded it afaik.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
No. The reason why Jaffe's comments are so disturbing is because they are revealing what a psycho he is re: respect towards women when he really didn't exhibit this behavior before.
It's shocking to me, and others in this thread.
Women have a powerful voice, speak up! ...But not publicly, there are men you might embarrass and you need to be sensitive to their delicate feelings.
The victim isn't the one who posted these, it was a friend of hers. Sorry if that doesn't fit your preferred narrative.
The victim isn't the one who posted these, it was a friend of hers. Sorry if that doesn't fit your preferred narrative.
I really can't see how people would try to argue that harassment is subjective while failing to acknowledge that the way people that do feel harassed is also subjective.
I know myself and the culture I'm part of enough to know that in a situation of constant sexual harassment, I'd plan his/her murder before I asked for help.
It's absurd to blame the victim because she didn't show your expected reaction to harassment while you're willing to cut him some slack because you don't know if she agrees with you on the definition of harassment.
I know myself and the culture I'm part of enough to know that in a situation of constant sexual harassment, I'd plan his/her murder before I asked for help.
It's absurd to blame the victim because she didn't show your expected reaction to harassment while you're willing to cut him some slack because you don't know if she agrees with you on the definition of harassment.
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