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[GraveRobberX]

Wait only 3 live round out of the 12 rounds fired?

Are 3 rounds enough?
I read the article where they show how the execution is setup and played out, but really, if the person survives those 3 shots, the superior has to go up to the victim (yes victim) and point blank shoot him the head... WHAT THE FUCK!?!

Why not you know make sure a death penalty that's getting carried out doesn't have a second clause in it, that if said death penalty doesn't work, you should....

 

[Pochacco]

More people die from prescription pharmaceutical overdoses than illegal narcotics. Should doctors be lined up and shot next? Would that make Indonesia a better place to live?

Nah. Doctors should probably not be lined up and shot next. I don't think that would make Indonesia a better place to live.

 

[neorej]

What kind of drugs were they trafficking? Alcohol, nicotine?

 

[fertygo]

What kind of drugs were they trafficking? Alcohol, nicotine?

Vary from each suspect ranging from Cocaine, Heroine and Meth.

 

[Linius]

Vary from each suspect ranging from Cocaine, Heroine and Meth.

And XTC.

 

[neorej]

Vary from each suspect ranging from Cocaine, Heroine and Meth.

And XTC.

Ah, perfectly validates the death penalty for a couple of expendable mules then. I'm sure the drug lords involved will shed dozens of tears over the lives lost.

 

[msv]

Geez, putting the blame of violence on the drug trade is just ridiculous. Any illegal market is pretty much lawless. By making certain drugs illegal, they're put in the illegal market. It's the illegal market that's dangerous, not the drugs.

What if tomatoes were made just as illegal? The exact same thing would happen (hell, it would be much worse since the market is waaay bigger. and bigger market = more power). The only thing criminalizing drugs is accomplishing is making the illegal market stronger and more powerful, thus increasing lawlessness/violence etc. The real perpetrators are the ones in favor of and upholding these laws when it comes to 'drug' violence.

 

[Kenshin001]

I did not comment on the validity of the death penalty itself. I merely commented on how many of you are so quick to assume that these drug traffickers were forced or whatever while the reality they could be anything but.

Also, you're not "good people" if you're trafficking drugs that can rip apart people's lives. Of course, circumstances may vary but that is also true to any act of crimes in this world.

Yeah, there seem to be some really naive views in this thread.

The Brazilian was a hang gliding champion who travelled around the world and had made a shadow career out of trafficking. When caught he had 13kg of coke packed inside his hang glider. He boasted about his trafficking exploits, how he baited an immigration officer in Sydney. He wasn't some poor oppressed drug mule.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Kind of surprised about one of them being from The Netherlands. The UK government usually comes down heavily on foreign nations imposing the death penalty on their citizens, and I assumed it would've been the same for any EU member.

 

[neorej]

Kind of surprised about one of them being from The Netherlands. The UK government usually comes down heavily on foreign nations imposing the death penalty on their citizens, and I assumed it would've been the same for any EU member.

As a Dutch, I'm very proud of my country's long lineage of spineless cabinets, priding themselves in being either the US or Russia's lapdog.

 

[Casimir]

Wait only 3 live round out of the 12 rounds fired?

Are 3 rounds enough?
I read the article where they show how the execution is setup and played out, but really, if the person survives those 3 shots, the superior has to go up to the victim (yes victim) and point blank shoot him the head... WHAT THE FUCK!?!

It's to prevent mental repercussions from shooters knowing they fired a lethal round. It's pretty standard.

One round is enough if it hits the correct area. Technically speaking a mounted gun hooked up to a firing mechanism half a meter away is more accurate than a fireing squad, less chance of missing, but that is considered obscene by some.

If they miss there is a chance that they only missed a vital spot but still hit the person, so the point blank headshot is an act of mercy. There have been cases of this happening, where all shooters hit the target in nonvital areas.

 

[Kiraly]

The Dutch man was caught in 2003 for producing XTC.

Had been on death row for over 10 years.

Refused to be blindfolded as he was executed by a firing squad.

Even the King of the Netherlands had made a phone call to the Prime Minister of Indonesia, but it made no change to the outcome.

 

[baterism]

The Dutch man was caught in 2003 for producing XTC.

Had been on death row for over 10 years.

Refused to be blindfolded as he was executed by a firing squad.

Even the King of the Netherlands had made a phone call to the Prime Minister of Indonesia, but it made no change to the outcome.

President perhaps, as we don't have a PM.

It's pretty sad. But, it's hard to sympathize drug dealers/smugglers. One of my neighbor who I rather close to, died from over dosage.

Life sentence might be better. But dunno, what do I know?

 

[Insane Metal]

Just read that the Brazilian dude was 'proud' of being a drug dealer, used to brag about it etc. And when you go to a place like this you know the rules.

 

[Linius]

Kind of surprised about one of them being from The Netherlands. The UK government usually comes down heavily on foreign nations imposing the death penalty on their citizens, and I assumed it would've been the same for any EU member.

We actually did try all sorts of things. Managed to postpone the execution twice. Now the ambassador has been called up by foreingn affairs and our ambassador over there is closing up shop. Our minister of foreign affairs also implied this could have consequences for our relationship with Indonesia.

 

[Joni]

Ah, perfectly validates the death penalty for a couple of expendable mules then. I'm sure the drug lords involved will shed dozens of tears over the lives lost.

One of these people - the Dutchman - was convicted for running an XTC production plant. It is nice to think of them as expendable mules, but it is clear these people deserved lengthy sentences. The death penalty is still wrong, but playing the card that they're just small fries doesn't help. Would be better to lobby for the worldwide abolition of the death penalty.

 

[Coriolanus]

Would be better to lobby for the worldwide abolition of the death penalty.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

An execution was about to happen, of course efforts should be focused on the place where there is a larger chance that they'll succeed.

Which is why there wasn't much talk about trying to stop Saudi Arabia's beheading wave.

 

[fertygo]

The dutch citizen is running hidden mega factory of ectasy at indonesia, and one of biggest catch in history.. even if Indonesia in more forgiving routine, they won't let go that one.

 

[Joni]

An execution was about to happen, of course efforts should be focused on the place where there is a larger chance that they'll succeed.

Claiming they're just small scale criminals that should have been released, doesn't seem to be succeeding either. As a tactic, getting both parties to the point where they acknowledge heavy penalties are needed but death penalty is too much, is better than one party going they shouldn't have gotten a large punishment.

 

[clemenx]

Don't fuck with drugs in Southeast Asia. Should be common sense by now.

Regardless of how barbarian this truly is.

 

[HappyBivouac]

This isn't in response to any single post in particular, but I just feel I need to throw this out there: If you're in support of the death penalty, then you're in support of the possibility of an innocent friend or family member of yours being wrongfully executed. To all those using the absurd (and quite frankly, untrue) argument that "If you were a relative of a victim, just think about how you'd feel", just think about how you'd feel if you had a family member wrongly convicted and murdered by the state. This is only the tip of the whole issue of capital punishment, but think about that.

 

[Coriolanus]

Claiming they're just small scale criminals that should have been released, doesn't seem to be succeeding either. As a tactic, getting both parties to the point where they acknowledge heavy penalties are needed but death penalty is too much, is better than one party going they shouldn't have gotten a large punishment.

The chief claim is that the law will usually affect small scale criminals, which seems quite obvious, given that the trade never stops.

The other major point is that they shouldn't be executed, regardless of scope.

As for time served, not many people are engaging in that particular point of discussion.

 

[hirokazu]

They don't force anyone to take drugs.
You realize the whole idea of "pushers" is bullshit, right? especially in a country with such harsh penalties as indonesia, you honestly think drug dealers go around offer random strangers drugs on the streets?

There's a demand, people want to do drugs, most of them don't die or have their lives ruined, some of them make bad life choices, no doubt, but I think it's quite a stretch to externalize the blame for that on traffickers.
Robbers and identity thieves directly hurt innocent people, traffickers don't.

And you know what, if it was shown that harsh punishment for drug dealers can cull the drug trade maybe we could have this discussion, but it doesn't.

I think you skipped the part where I said "indirectly contribute." But you make it sound as if these people have no effect on what happens on the street. They got the drugs on the streets. Anybody who dies from it is partially because of these people.

Of course harsh punishment isn't gonna cull the drug trade. I have no opinion either way on legalisation because I'm not sure exactly how it'll affect the situation. All I said is that these people are selfish arsehats who deserve to be locked up for a long time.

 

[quaere]

This isn't in response to any single post in particular, but I just feel I need to throw this out there: If you're in support of the death penalty, then you're in support of the possibility of an innocent friend or family member of yours being wrongfully executed. To all those using the absurd (and quite frankly, untrue) argument that "If you were a relative of a victim, just think about how you'd feel", just think about how you'd feel if you had a family member wrongly convicted and murdered by the state. This is only the tip of the whole issue of capital punishment, but think about that.

I only support the death penalty in cases of absolute certainty. In this case, it seems like at least two of the convicts were guilty without any doubt, so your post does not apply.

 

[genjiZERO]

Drug trafficking has wrecked their countries.
Hard to find examples of countries in recent history with legalized, regulamented drug trade where it has considerably negatively affected the population.

What we can say for sure is that the american states that legalized pot are doing ok, as are the Netherlands. And Uruguay.

Drugs are prohibition 2.0. Nothing new there, just waiting for the world to come to terms with it.

Marijuana is not comparable to heroine and meth.

But regardless, the point still stands - the drug trade both has and still does wrecks countries. Thousands, if not millions, of people have been killed because of it. Those kids who were recently rounded up in the US? They were here because of displacement due to the drug trade.

 

[sandy1297]

the new president want Indonesia be more like USA where they executed hundreds of people annually

and yeah, no sympathy for the Dutch guy that have an ectasy factory nor to the Brasilian that have 13 fucking KG of coccain

 

[Elchele]

Geez, putting the blame of violence on the drug trade is just ridiculous. Any illegal market is pretty much lawless. By making certain drugs illegal, they're put in the illegal market. It's the illegal market that's dangerous, not the drugs.

So? the market is illegal right now. And drug trade is the #1 cause of violence in LA

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Just read that the Brazilian dude was 'proud' of being a drug dealer, used to brag about it etc. And when you go to a place like this you know the rules.

If he knew the rules and did it regardless, then what exactly is the death penalty solving in this situation? It's clearly not worked as a deterrent, has it?

 

[Coriolanus]

Marijuana is not comparable to heroine and meth.

But regardless, the point still stands - the drug trade both has and still does wrecks countries. Thousands, if not millions, of people have been killed because of it. Those kids who were recently rounded up in the US? They were here because of displacement due to the drug trade.

Heroine is an opioid, as is morphine and so many other prescription drugs. It falls on you to explain why, exactly, heroin is Quite Bad Indeed and should never be legally sold, whereas morphine and, say, oxycontin are ok.

Meth varies a lot, but it still is pretty much the same thing as regular amphetamines. You are most certainly fine with with caffeine and allowing doctors to prescribe ritalin when needed, so where, exactly, would you start distinguishing between them? Harm? Addiction? Deaths? If you wanna go down that road, you better be ready to bring prohibition back, because alcohol is damn hard to beat in that regard.

Thousands, if not millions, have been killed/displaced because of drug trafficking, not because of drug trade. Drug trade is present in every single country in the world, and always will be.

Curiously enough, drug trafficking can only exist for as long as the trade of certain drugs is made illegal. To use your example, you think voters in legalized states are using mexican drugs? I quite doubt that.

It's prohibition 2.0, bro.

 

[mjontrix]

Well, they knew the risks of their actions - high risk high reward...

The death penalty is to me deterrent mainly to prevent newer players from entering the trade - not really the ones who currently do the drug trade.

If he gave clemency the media there I'd assume would chew him up completely, and it would make him and the government look weak. If people see that even with the foreign governments begging for clemency and yet they refuse it makes them look tougher, the us vs them, we are good etc.

 

[tbhysgb]

If he knew the rules and did it regardless, then what exactly is the death penalty solving in this situation? It's clearly not worked as a deterrent, has it?

Well, he's not around to do it anymore.

 

[Elchele]

Heroine is an opioid, as is morphine and so many other prescription drugs. It falls on you to explain why, exactly, heroin is Quite Bad Indeed and should never be legally sold, whereas morphine and, say, oxycontin are ok.

Meth varies a lot, but it still is pretty much the same thing as regular amphetamines. You are most certainly fine with with caffeine and allowing doctors to prescribe ritalin when needed, so where, exactly, would you start distinguishing between them? Harm? Addiction? Deaths? If you wanna go down that road, you better be ready to bring prohibition back, because alcohol is damn hard to beat in that regard.

Thousands, if not millions, have been killed/displaced because of drug trafficking, not because of drug trade. Drug trade is present in every single country in the world, and always will be.

Curiously enough, drug trafficking can only exist for as long as the trade of certain drugs is made illegal. To use your example, you think voters in legalized states are using mexican drugs? I quite doubt that.

It's prohibition 2.0, bro.

As you said, not all drugs could be legalized anyway. Drug trafficking will always exist, they would just come up with new and more terrible stuff.

If he knew the rules and did it regardless, then what exactly is the death penalty solving in this situation? It's clearly not worked as a deterrent, has it?

I doubt he'll do it again.

 

[Sheroking]

Threads like this make me despise human beings.

The executions, the support - both utterly despicable.

 

[Fenderputty]

It's all a pyramid. In the end the ones profiting are the big organizations (cartels, mafia, etc). The same ones who murder thousands of people in Latin America every year. Zero sympathy.

All countries in Latin America should adopt those kind of laws to make drug trafficking less appealing.

This policy would do nothing but makes drugs more expensive :/

All drugs should be legalized BTW. Yes all.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

If he knew the rules and did it regardless, then what exactly is the death penalty solving in this situation? It's clearly not worked as a deterrent, has it?

We need to assume must drug dealers don't plan on being caught.

 

[Coriolanus]

As you said, not all drugs could be legalized anyway. Drug trafficking will always exist, they would just come up with new and more terrible stuff

I never said that.

The counterpoint is also obvious: after prohibition ended, no one kept buying shitty mafia liquor of dubious sources.

We need to assume must drug dealers don't plan on being caught.

Most criminals. Very hard to find data backing up harsh sentencing as good deterrence.
Which would be obvious to anyone that's been in a sharia country.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I only support the death penalty in cases of absolute certainty. In this case, it seems like at least two of the convicts were guilty without any doubt, so your post does not apply.

ah fuck it 33% is good enough eh guys

I doubt he'll do it again.

LOL JOKEZ

 

[justjohn]

Wait only 3 live round out of the 12 rounds fired?

Are 3 rounds enough?

Let's hope so.

 

[genjiZERO]

Heroine is an opioid, as is morphine and so many other prescription drugs. It falls on you to explain why, exactly, heroin is Quite Bad Indeed and should never be legally sold, whereas morphine and, say, oxycontin are ok.

Meth varies a lot, but it still is pretty much the same thing as regular amphetamines. You are most certainly fine with with caffeine and allowing doctors to prescribe ritalin when needed, so where, exactly, would you start distinguishing between them? Harm? Addiction? Deaths? If you wanna go down that road, you better be ready to bring prohibition back, because alcohol is damn hard to beat in that regard.

Thousands, if not millions, have been killed/displaced because of drug trafficking, not because of drug trade. Drug trade is present in every single country in the world, and always will be.

Curiously enough, drug trafficking can only exist for as long as the trade of certain drugs is made illegal. To use your example, you think voters in legalized states are using mexican drugs? I quite doubt that.

It's prohibition 2.0, bro.

Drug trafficking is exactly what these people are being executed for. Which by your own admission is what causes the death of "thousands, if not millions"

The rest of your post makes no sense. Neither the chemical classification of a drug nor the speculative policy considerations of open drug laws have any bearing on the fact that a lot of people are harmed because of the recreational drug industry.

 

[Coriolanus]

Drug trafficking is exactly what these people are being executed for. Which by your own admission is what causes the death of "thousands, if not millions"

The rest of your post makes no sense. Neither the chemical classification of a drug nor the speculative policy considerations of open drug laws have any bearing on the fact that a lot of people are harmed because of the recreational drug industry.

One follows the other. Those people would haven't suffered (as much) if there was drug trade. They suffered because there was drug trafficking. Killing these guys does very little to nothing to halt drug trafficking, thus the endeavour is fruitless and a waste of resources, while also courting the very real risk of eventually executing an innocent.

The same follows in the next point, your contention is with the illegal recreational drug industry, which derives its power from the illegality. Remove that element and you curtail power. The indication of chemical classification is a quick way to show how absolutely arbitrary the standards for "what an illegal drug is" are, thus adding to the reason to get rid of them.

A lot of people are harmed for plenty of reasons, it is up to us to pick the method that most decreases harm. Given that the death approach involves executing people via an imperfect justice system (which carries its own risks, as already mentioned), and that you'd be hard pressed to find studies that back repressive approaches as the most effective ones, alternative approaches should be pursued.

 

[GYODX]

Their country, their laws.

Do you say the same about Saudi Arabia?

 

[SolicitorPirate]

So for all you guys repeating the mantra of "their country, their laws," you are aware that the Indonesian judiciary is nowhere near reputable or reliable, right?

Hell, of the Southeast Asian countries that do enforce the death penalty, the only one with a reputable judiciary is Singapore.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Well, he's not around to do it anymore.

But it solves nothing. Everyone supporting this says they knew the risks, but this just proves that the death penalty isn't preventing crime from happening.

 

[cpp_is_king]

But it solves nothing. Everyone supporting this says they knew the risks, but this just proves that the death penalty isn't preventing crime from happening.

Certainly prevents a repeat offense.

 

[PdotMichael]

It's obviously hard to feel pity for murderers, rapists or drug smugglers.

But death penalty is barbaric and doesn't solve crime problems. One doesn't even need to look at countries like Indonesia, the USA is a great example how fucking useless death penalties are.

 

[ChainedMaster]

hard drugs like heroin? fuck no.

It wouldn't be unprecedented, considering the harder drug alcohol is legal. Harder as in more intoxicating/worse withdrawals. I consider hardness of a drug in terms of those two criterea.

 

[MrChom]

Like America?

No Exceptions.

As I said; any country imposing the death penalty is barbaric, and unfit to join the civilised world.

Someone raping my daughter should be killed not having 10 years in prison.
Someone killing my mother should be killed not get 15 to 30 years.
How would you feel if you saw the raper of your child walking free next to you?
Death penalty is one of the few things that makes me feel there is still justice in our world.

If a state murders someone on what basis does it then have the power to use its judiciary to try other people for murder? It's not like other sentences. There is no pardon after it's carried out, no appeal, no nothing. It is a reminder of a 12th century attitude where killing a couple of villagers scared the rest into line and has no place in the modern civilised world.

I'm not saying they should walk free, I'm saying there are better ways of dealing with this then what amounts to imprisoning someone for 2 decades and then mudering them in a fashion not intended to "remove" them, but in most cases a fashion that inflicts tremendous pain as they die.

If you truly think that's a good way to do things then you're one step from bringing back the breaking wheel and setting it up in a public square.

 

[cpp_is_king]

I'm not saying they should walk free, I'm saying there are better ways of dealing with this then what amounts to imprisoning someone for 2 decades and then mudering them in a fashion not intended to "remove" them, but in most cases a fashion that inflicts tremendous pain as they die.

Well we agree one one thing, that the imprisonment part sucks. Should definitely get it done sooner. And with less pain too. Guillotine seems pretty painless and instantaneous. Or maybe dropping a 50,000 pound solid square block on their heads.

 

[gconsole]

More people die from prescription pharmaceutical overdoses than illegal narcotics. Should doctors be lined up and shot next? Would that make Indonesia a better place to live?

Not sure I follow. Does doctor do the same thing as drug trafficker?

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Well its a squad. several men with rifles. One has a blank. (Thats the 'traditional' method)

i knew this but what the fuck is the logic? 'maybe i didnt kill him!' fucking idiots, all who are participating in that shit.